irc333 Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Was talking with a friend of mine, that women like to be in control on how things are perceived. They figure they'd have some kind of obligation to you if they let the man pay....and some women want to be in control. She feels "that I might have to kiss him at the end of our get together or it's a date". That a woman cannot be chained to the concept to the idea that they are dating, and that she's "free" to do what she wants to do, and without the perception that the guy she was just with.....that she might owe him something?
ltjg45 Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 I really hope any female I may end up dating will ever think they owe me anything because I treated them out. Because they don't. I did it because I have an interest in that female and I felt the effort was worth the trouble. As good or bad as the date may be, they owe me nothing at the end. 1
Keenly Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 There is an extremely popular morning show I listen to on the west coast. Its called Rob Arnie and Dawn. Yesterday they were talking about a survey where 90% of women don't want the door opened for them, don't want a stranger to help them carry a heavy object, don't want dates to pay etc. Arnie blamed the women for biting guys heads off that tried to be nice. Dawn blamed the men for being jerks. The world goes 'round. Personally, I'm paying because that's how I roll. End of story. If she is not okay with me paying then we won't be seeing each other again 1
youaremysunshine Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 It's good you both feel that way. I'm not saying many men feel that they are owed something, but some do and that creates tension. Besides, how often do you hear men complaining about having to pay for everything and women being money pits? It's just a drink, I wouldn't be at the bar if I couldn't afford it so please spare us the awkwardness. I find it interesting that men are embarrassed to let me treat them, especially in the early stages of dating. 1
youaremysunshine Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 I would never bite anyone's head off for being nice. Opening doors is about who gets there first, I open doors for men women and strangers all the time. If I'm struggling to carry something heavy, sure I appreciate it if a stronger man can help, if I trust that person not to steal it. I once off offered to help an old woman with her bags, and she declined probably because I was new to the building. I just don't like being treated in a weird self aware way just because I'm a girl. If you are polite to everyone, THEN I'll be impressed!!
Avulare Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) The only beef I have with letting men pay for my meal is if we are not on a date but I'm relatively certain he's interested me (and the interest is not mutual), and if I let him pay for my meal he might mistake it for a date. Because I'm in a male-dominated academic/professional field, this situation occurs with some regularity. In these cases, if the man absolutely insists on paying for me despite my objections, I insist on evening it out by paying for drinks later or doing the driving wherever we go. That said, when I AM interested in a guy and the interest is mutual, I appreciate the gesture of him paying for my meal - but I still make it even later on though, usually by paying for our next meal myself. Re: opening doors... Call me old-fashioned, but in the context of a potential budding romantic relationship, I love it when the man opens doors for me. To me it's an extremely quick and easy way to show a touch of politeness and class that is not often seen these days, and it also serves to show me (again, in the context of my male-dominated social/professional circle) that the man sees me as something more than just "one of the guys". A couple years ago, this one guy I sort of went out with a couple times would not only NOT open doors for me, but also not even hold them open for me after he walked through (just letting them slam in my face pretty much), and not slow down and even wait for me to open the door again and walk through. It was HUGE turnoff to me and a major contribution to why I nipped that relationship in the bud. All that said, just like with the meal thing I try to even it out a bit, and I frequently open doors and hold them for my male friends and colleagues if I happen to get there first. I typically don't do this for men I don't know, simply because pretty frequently they'll refuse to walk through a door I've opened for them (especially the older men) and instead insist that I go through first. So in these cases I generally just open the door myself, walk through first and then stop to hold the door open for the man, or if he gets to the door first, I just let him open it for me. Regardless of who opens a door for me - male or female, friend or stranger, etc. - it's always followed by a sincere smile and a "Thank you" on my part. Edited March 9, 2013 by Avulare 1
TheZebra Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 I like keeping things even, just out of fairness really. I work a full time job, he works a full time job, there's not many reasons that say he should always be paying.
Eggplant Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 If I really like the man, I will receive what he offers me and be appreciative. Receiving what he offers does not make me obligated. I would not accept lots of dates and gestures from a man I wanted nothing from. So it's a good indication of my interest level. My last boyfriend made 1/2 my salary, but he paid for me on our dates in the beginning and always when he took me dancing. It wasn't actually about bumming a meal, lol.
iKING Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 In general circumstances, I'm not saying this is absolute, but from the majority of what I've seen It's something like this. From a guy she's interested in: Kind gesture, perfectly acceptable. It appeals to the traditional sense of the courtship dance, guy likes girl, guy takes girl for a nice night out to show interest, girl accepts to reciprocate said interest, and it goes from there. From a guy she's not so interested in: Unwanted feeling of obligation, sometimes makes her feel as if there's something owed. I've seen this more-so when women are "testing the waters" with a guy per-say, they're not sure of their interest level and don't want to put a guy out for something they're not sure they want in the first place. Like I said, this is not absolute. I've known women who simply refuse to be paid for simply due to their independent personality, and women who always make up for it because they feel It's the right thing to do. I've paid for friends when there was no implied interest from either side (both male and female), simply because It's something I enjoy doing. Occasionally I like to pay for the person behind me's coffee at a coffee shop just to make someone else's life a little easier, and It's not to a show of interest. 3
CryForNoOne Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Almost every first date goes the same for me. I pay for dinner, I drive to the next destination, always opening the car door for them, they pay for the first round of drinks, I pay for the next.To me it's a very natural so it's barely even noticed. I find the second date is very telling. Often she tries to pay. She could be asserting he independence yet still be interested. It could also be the first hint of being FZ'd. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but I will say if she let's me pay the second time I've always gotten a third date. 1
grkBoy Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 This is why guys should be crystal clear when they ask a woman out. Leave her no room to somehow pretend or hope he's just asking her out "as friends". Let her decline and say no. She'll walk away knowing you wanted to date her and not just be in the friendzone. In my opinion, a guy shouldn't "hang out" with a girl who seems lukewarm on him and hope she'll suddenly warm up. It's one thing to grab a cup of coffee, but another when he's taking her out to dinners or more and yet she's somehow thinking or pretending this is "just friends". "Hang out" only when you simply want "just friends" and you're ready and willing to pursue other women. Trust me. Women who want to date a guy or are throwing the idea of dating the guy in her mind isn't going to vehemently push to not let him pay for her. If a girl is severely pushing to not let him cover her...then it's clear he's got no chance and should either accept "just friends" or move on completely. 1
Imajerk17 Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Let me get this straight: If a woman lets a man whom she's not interested pay, she's a gold digger. If she does not let same man pay she's a biatch. Ok so what is a woman supposed to do then. Be thankful the woman had enough class to save the guy she's not interested some money (instead of selfishly using him for a free meal) is how I suggest you see it. Edited March 10, 2013 by Imajerk17 3
Els Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 My observation has been that women who insist to the point of not allowing a guy to pay because they're afraid of 'owing' him something, are afraid of owing him a second date. ie they aren't that interested in him. In that case, as Imajerk says, be grateful they did that instead of using you for a free meal when they weren't interested in you.
RachR Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 I let a man pay if I'm interested in him, even if it's not a date or anything. If I just see him in a friendly way, I insist he doesn't pay for me. And it's really annoying if he's pushy and tries to force it. I understand if he's interested and really insists to pay he's wanting to show he likes me, but...damn it, if I told you three times I'm paying for myself, leave it! I don't let men that I see in only a friendly way pay because I don't want him thinking he's picking up on "signs" that I'm interested by having let him pay. Nowhere does anything about any feelings of "obligation" come into it though, doesn't ever cross my mind. 2
Woggle Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Let me get this straight: If a woman lets a man whom she's not interested pay, she's a gold digger. If she does not let same man pay she's a biatch. Ok so what is a woman supposed to do then. Be thankful the woman had enough class to save the guy she's not interested some money (instead of selfishly using him for a free meal) is how I suggest you see it. I agree. I think women who get mad at guys for holding a door or taking it too far but I appreciate when women who are not interested have some decency and won't use a man.
Object_a Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 I don't think women have a problem with the man paying per se. It's just that if you really insist quite forcefully that you MUST pay for everything, it suggests you have somewhat old-fashioned ideas about gender roles and possibly entitlement issues to go along with that. It's easy to see how that could make a woman really uncomfortable about letting you pay. 2
Krieger Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 if a woman ever did ask me out i do expect her to pay or at least offer to pay . If we are meeting for drinks or some thing she should at least buy the frist round IMO. If i ask a girl out on a date I pay for the date and will not let her pay no matter what. .
RedRobin Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 I think people should split the bills, unless there is a big difference in their income and one person insists on doing an activity the other person can't afford. Unless the man plans on buying everything throughout the relationship, it seems a pretty poor expectation to set up front in this day and age. By having each person pitch in, you get a very good sense of what their real interests are... because they likely won't accept a date on something they don't like if they have to pony up too. Anyway... I always offer to pay my share, regardless of interest. Always have. I'm also pretty good at finding cheap or free stuff to do that is fun so that money isn't an issue no matter what.
s-ss Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Guys almost always want to pay on a first date. If I'm interested in him I might protest a little bit but ultimately don't mind him paying since I'm sure I will see him again and we can even it up later. If I'm clearly not interested, I will try and pay. I don't want them to waste money, and I don't want to feel like I owe them anything. (this doesn't always work - some guys are forceful and still pays.)
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