spice4life Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 A lot of things I have been reading lately have really got me thinking about this very question. I want to thank AnotherRound in particular because I view her story as the pomised land...lol. A place where you are takin care of yourself. I mean when did you reach a point where continuing, no matter how much you cared about your AP, meant you were betraying yourself? And at what point did it mean that you began to lose respect for your AP for choosing to be in an affair? This isn't a slam against MMs/MWs and if their choice is to have an affair that's fine...to each his own. I guess I'm asking because I've always been one to want to evolve, grow and deal with issues head on and there came a point when I just didn't want to be in a situation that goes against that. I saw how illogical it was and that it was not a good way to deal with the issues in your life. It was also a situation where I couldn't be myself and feel comfortable. As a matter of fact I never felt comfortable with it...lol. In my life in general I am the same person no matter where I am - work, home and social life - and I realized one day that the "only" place I wasn't myself was in the affair. I am an open easy going person with pure intentions and I couldn't be that in the affair, so it just stop working for me...ya now? I loved and cared about him and that evolved to a deeper care over time, but it didn't allow me to be who I am. I don't know if this makes any sense or not; hopefully it does. The questions lately got me thinking about this stuff! 1
promises Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 I am beginning to feel that way. He clearly doesn't respect anyone quite as much as he does himself.
Author spice4life Posted March 8, 2013 Author Posted March 8, 2013 In my situation it wasn't that I stopped caring I just couldn't continue with the status quo anymore because I was starting to change. If he were free to be out in the open one day then yes, I would be happy to get to know the "real" person he is...just couldn't in an affair setting. Too many complications that lend themselves to insecurities. An affair creates that. 1
TheOW Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 The only time i felt myself and comfortable was with him, he knew me better than i know myself and this is one of the reasons i know he loves(d) me. I want that back ... oneday (not with him) I don't think i would ever lose respect for him he truly was a great guy we just got caught up and let our emotions (and hormones) get the better of us, we crossed the line and now we are paying the consequences and i know many on here think he "threw me under the bus" (absolutely hate that term) he didnt, he admitted he done wrong he didnt go down the blame OW route when it could have been so easy to do and i think this is where his wife struggles.
TheOW Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 In my situation it wasn't that I stopped caring I just couldn't continue with the status quo anymore because I was starting to change. If he were free to be out in the open one day then yes, I would be happy to get to know the "real" person he is...just couldn't in an affair setting. Too many complications that lend themselves to insecurities. An affair creates that. I completely get this, I think if my A had continued for much longer I would have began to feel the same. The insecurities were slowly creeping up on me and the jealousy (both of us felt) was becoming uncontrollable, more so on my side but he also let slip on a few occasions that he did not like the attention i received by the opposite sex.
Pierre Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 The only time i felt myself and comfortable was with him, he knew me better than i know myself and this is one of the reasons i know he loves(d) me. I want that back ... oneday (not with him) Oops, here we go again. Mm gave you external validation and that is not what you need. You need to be very happy on your own. I am beginning to think your devotion to your children is also about validation. Old habits die hard. I don't think i would ever lose respect for him he truly was a great guy we just got caught up and let our emotions (and hormones) get the better of us, we crossed the line and now we are paying the consequences and i know many on here think he "threw me under the bus" (absolutely hate that term) he didnt, he admitted he done wrong he didnt go down the blame OW route when it could have been so easy to do and i think this is where his wife struggles. You were not there on dday 2
TheOW Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 Oops, here we go again. Mm gave you external validation and that is not what you need. You need to be very happy on your own. I am beginning to think your devotion to your children is also about validation. Old habits die hard. You were not there on dday Pierre one day i am going to shove "external validation" right up your rectum !! And dont you dare for even one second doubt my devotion to my children, its not on. Im telling you how it was, I was more comfortable with him but that may because we were in an A and it wasnt real life, I dont know, i dont spend hours of my time studying A dynamics. 7
Pierre Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 Pierre one day i am going to shove "external validation" right up your rectum !! And dont you dare for even one second doubt my devotion to my children, its not on. Im telling you how it was, I was more comfortable with him but that may because we were in an A and it wasnt real life, I dont know, i dont spend hours of my time studying A dynamics. I don't doubt your devotion for the children. But for many parents the kids represent some forms of validation. No big deal because they are your kids. I suggest you read about affairs. There is a lot of info about you.
MissBee Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) A lot of things I have been reading lately have really got me thinking about this very question. I want to thank AnotherRound in particular because I view her story as the pomised land...lol. A place where you are takin care of yourself. I mean when did you reach a point where continuing, no matter how much you cared about your AP, meant you were betraying yourself? And at what point did it mean that you began to lose respect for your AP for choosing to be in an affair? This isn't a slam against MMs/MWs and if their choice is to have an affair that's fine...to each his own. I guess I'm asking because I've always been one to want to evolve, grow and deal with issues head on and there came a point when I just didn't want to be in a situation that goes against that. I saw how illogical it was and that it was not a good way to deal with the issues in your life. It was also a situation where I couldn't be myself and feel comfortable. As a matter of fact I never felt comfortable with it...lol. In my life in general I am the same person no matter where I am - work, home and social life - and I realized one day that the "only" place I wasn't myself was in the affair. I am an open easy going person with pure intentions and I couldn't be that in the affair, so it just stop working for me...ya now? I loved and cared about him and that evolved to a deeper care over time, but it didn't allow me to be who I am. I don't know if this makes any sense or not; hopefully it does. The questions lately got me thinking about this stuff! Makes perfect sense to me! I can relate. An affair IMO is not an alternative relationship style. Some have said that they believe they can have a healthy relationship with a MP who keeps them a secret, I disagree. Affairs usually aren't conducive to forever and for long periods of growth and happiness. If you start an affair...fine...work it out quickly, I'd say. As the more it continues, the less appealing and more of a toll it takes usually. In the beginning of my A, I didn't really even consider it an A or a relationship and wasn't in that deep so I wasn't too bothered. As time went on, as I invested more feelings, emotions, time and effort, the more it became apparent that it was like pouring water into a bucket with holes. While I never thought he would leave or wanted him to...that didn't change my feeling of "what are we doing?" Everyday I would become more and more sensitive to little things that made it apparent this was not just a normal relationship with someone who "happens to be committed elsewhere". I hate that turn of phrase...it makes their commitment elsewhere seem trite, when in reality, it clouds everything. The longer my A went the more it became obvious that this is an abnormal situation which produces certain kinds of strains, and I just started losing interest and I especially was upset that he seemed completely content in the situation. I was like: how can you feel fine doing this??? Why do I feel badly about it and you don't? Which is why I don't understand how it is said that "if he doesn't value his marriage why should I?" I'm like what?! What does his disrespect have to do with your own feelings. Mine didn't respect his relationship enough to not cheat but that didn't change my own feelings of "what are we doing?" Instead of simply following suit and saying "He doesn't care, neither do I!" I simply lost respect for him by the lack of care he showed. Edited March 8, 2013 by MissBee 5
Catplates Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 I don't doubt your devotion for the children. But for many parents the kids represent some forms of validation. No big deal because they are your kids. I suggest you read about affairs. There is a lot of info about you. Pierr could you please expand your vocabulary? I for one am truly weary of the the words 'bubble" and "validation". A Thesarus might come in handy. Good Luck, Cat 3
LadyGrey Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 Spice, a few months before I found out the truth of all the lies xmm had told me, there was an instance of something he told me about that he did to who I thought was his stbxw. It was hard to swallow, it was something that did not fit with who I thought he was at all. It was the catalyst for me becoming suspicious about some things he had said, and the doubt got stronger. It was the moment when I thought........how could a good person do that? As I came to find out months later, the story he had told me was one tiny bit of the truth, the truth was uglier than I ever imagined. After it all came out, there were many things that I had to acknowledge about myself and how I wasn't being true to who I really was, when I was with him. I also had to accept that in the previous relationship I was in, I wasn't really all me in it either. We as women are taught to be "nice" and automatically think "the best of someone" sometimes to our very own determent. I've learned that we don't owe anyone anything except common courtesy, and if we want to give them more, they should earn it. We owe this to ourselves as women, to protect ourselves. Before we can expect someone else to give us the same care and consideration, we must give it to ourselves. 1
RainDown Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 I lost quite a bit of respect for my one serious MM when he called me one day and I asked where he was. He told me he was calling me from his garage "where she can't hear me," meaning his wife. It turned me off completely to picture him hiding in the garage to make a phone call, like a little boy hiding from his mommy. It wasn't long after that incident that I told him I couldn't do the affair thing with him and I was moving on without him. I simply was not in a place where I could have a relationship with a grown man who had to sneak away and hide to make a simple phone call. It just struck me as an absolutely absurd way to conduct one's life. It also struck me as cowardly. All in all, not an attractive picture.
Pierre Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 Pierr could you please expand your vocabulary? I for one am truly weary of the the words 'bubble" and "validation". A Thesarus might come in handy. Good Luck, Cat I hear you. But the terms fit like a glove.
Author spice4life Posted March 9, 2013 Author Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Thank you all for the wonderful responses. I am so sorry for responding late; my mind is a little boggled today and actually I'm kinda sad. I knew I was on the edge of another epiphany and this one was HUGE or maybe HUMANGOUS (sp? Sorry didn't feel like looking it up...lol.) is a better word. It has left me with a very big pit in the middle of my stomach. My moment was when I met someone from his real life. It was then that I saw my place in it all. The feeling of being a very small dark spot in someone's otherwise fabulous life (or so I thought) was very sobering. I RISKED EVERYTHING to steal a few minutes away with him. I HATED sneaking around, but if it meant that I could have a minute it was worth the risk. I remember being a complete basket case driving to meet him - missed my turn in fact - but I did it anyway. I risked MY FAMILY MY EVERYTHING...and you know what?...it was for LOVE! I don't think he knew how stressful it was for me to do that under those circumstances. That's why I said "I couldn't be myself" because it went against every grain I BELIEVED in. Yes, when he met me I was a total mess...I admit it and HAVE admitted it a thousand times. I tried to push him away. I knew I wasn't ready to face "real love" at that moment. I was decompressing for goodness sake. It's not an excuse...just a reality. For me, he was NOT a rebound at all. Was I really that off in my instincts?! I'm very boggled and sad right now. Edited March 9, 2013 by spice4life 1
LadyGrey Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 ((((Spice))))) Sending hugs........ Until reading this post, I didn't realize you were still in the affair. Let us know what you need.
wisernow Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Thank you all for the wonderful responses. I am so sorry for responding late; my mind is a little boggled today and actually I'm kinda sad. I knew I was on the edge of another epiphany and this one was HUGE or maybe HUMANGOUS (sp? Sorry didn't feel like looking it up...lol.) is a better word. It has left me with a very big pit in the middle of my stomach. My moment was when I met someone from his real life. It was then that I saw my place in it all. The feeling of being a very small dark spot in someone's otherwise fabulous life (or so I thought) was very sobering. I RISKED EVERYTHING to steal a few minutes away with him. I HATED sneaking around, but if it meant that I could have a minute it was worth the risk. I remember being a complete basket case driving to meet him - missed my turn in fact - but I did it anyway. I risked MY FAMILY MY EVERYTHING...and you know what?...it was for LOVE! I don't think he knew how stressful it was for me to do that under those circumstances. That's why I said "I couldn't be myself" because it went against every grain I BELIEVED in. Yes, when he met me I was a total mess...I admit it and HAVE admitted it a thousand times. I tried to push him away. I knew I wasn't ready to face "real love" at that moment. I was decompressing for goodness sake. It's not an excuse...just a reality. For me, he was NOT a rebound at all. Was I really that off in my instincts?! I'm very boggled and sad right now. ((Hugs)) Spice. I'm sorry you're feeling low. Chin up. 1
Author spice4life Posted March 9, 2013 Author Posted March 9, 2013 Thank you LadyGrey and Wisernow. I'm just so confused right now and I don't know what to think. I am going to have to sleep on this one and hopefully I will be able to explain more in the morning. You both are such a great support to this forum. Thank you for taking the time to lend us all your support! 2
AnotherRound Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 Just noticed that you mentioned me here and wanted to say that I'm glad that my post triggered something positive for you! ) Respect is a big deal in relationships, obviously. In my case, I have to have a high level of respect for anyone I interact with - or I just stop interacting with them. It doesn't mean that I don't love them, or care about them - but without the respect, it just isn't healthy. I have learned that I struggle with having too much empathy for someone - so much empathy and understanding that I sacrifice my own emotional well being at times for the sake of theirs. I'm really working at NOT doing that any longer in life. Not because they don't "deserve" empathy - but because I don't deserve to be emotionally unhealthy for the sake of others on a consistent basis. With exMM - if it had been back and forth, give and take - maybe it would have been different. But the last time I saw him face to face, my heart literally hurt. Not because I wanted to be with him, but I honestly felt so much pity for him. That cannot be an equal or healthy relationship, imo. That was the point that I decided that no matter how much I had loved him, or he me, or how much we had shared together - that it wasn't fair to me, or to him - to continue on in such an uneven partnership. I hope that you are feeling less sad/confused today. If I can help in any way, let me know. I am going to try to keep posting, but really am pretty busy with everything going on in my life - but I want to help anyone that I can. I'm not going to tell anyone that I know more about their situation than they do - I just want to share my experience in the hopes someone might see something of themselves in it and gain some insight without having to do it the hard way - you know, save them the trouble if that's possible. 1
beyond Posted March 9, 2013 Posted March 9, 2013 A lot of things I have been reading lately have really got me thinking about this very question. I want to thank AnotherRound in particular because I view her story as the pomised land...lol. A place where you are takin care of yourself. I mean when did you reach a point where continuing, no matter how much you cared about your AP, meant you were betraying yourself? And at what point did it mean that you began to lose respect for your AP for choosing to be in an affair? This isn't a slam against MMs/MWs and if their choice is to have an affair that's fine...to each his own. I guess I'm asking because I've always been one to want to evolve, grow and deal with issues head on and there came a point when I just didn't want to be in a situation that goes against that. I saw how illogical it was and that it was not a good way to deal with the issues in your life. It was also a situation where I couldn't be myself and feel comfortable. As a matter of fact I never felt comfortable with it...lol. In my life in general I am the same person no matter where I am - work, home and social life - and I realized one day that the "only" place I wasn't myself was in the affair. I am an open easy going person with pure intentions and I couldn't be that in the affair, so it just stop working for me...ya now? I loved and cared about him and that evolved to a deeper care over time, but it didn't allow me to be who I am. I don't know if this makes any sense or not; hopefully it does. The questions lately got me thinking about this stuff! The bolded stuff above makes perfect sense to me Spice and describes my feelings too. When my exmm got back in touch (we dated years ago when he was single) about three emails in he hinted that he wanted to meet as more than friends, even though he was married. I tried to tell myself I was misreading the signs (!!!) and the decent man I knew back then wouldn't do that.....then, when I wouldn't sleep with him and he mocked my 'stupid morals', was another huge red flag, when his words were that he was leaving his wife and was going to do it way before I came back on the scene..blah blah blah, but actions never matched up, another flag, then when his wife read an email I'd sent to him (ironically telling him not to contact me until/if he became single) and his response was pure anger at me for sending the email to his personal account instead of his work one (I'd told him right at the start, I'd send emails to any account I wanted as had nothing to hide and he seemed ok with that.) Finally just the cold hard truth dawned on me that this decent man I'd once known or thought I'd known, was now capable of lying and deceiving on a daily basis to his wife and referered to his children as 'millstones' around his neck, dragging him down. I literally felt a punch to my stomach hearing him say that and all the cards that were all up in the air suddenly flew into place. I knew if I ever got what I thought I wanted (him to be with me), I would always wonder where he was, who he was emailing/texting etc because thats how he was with me. I didn't like the person I was becoming by being with him, I found myself anxious a lot of the time, something which I'd never experienced a lot of in life in general, and certainly not within a relationship which is surely supposed to be loving and nuturing. I wanted him to 'get back to what he was before', if that makes sense. But in the end I couldn't expect to change him, only myself and my own self respect. I got out. 3
LFH Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 I'm very boggled and sad right now. I'm so sorry you are having a hard time. I do understand exactly what you are saying. If things were different in my life, if I had the opportunity to be with someone full time permanently then I really do know that I would want more. That this wouldn't be enough for me. I wish I could help when I see people struggling. I don't have a lot to offer, but I do wish I could give you a hug. *hugs* 1
Pierre Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Seriously Pierre, what do you know about women and validation? You are a man. You know nothing of what women go through, feel and think. You can read all day about affairs - but it doesn't make you an expert. Your constant slams to OW about 'external validation' and/or 'low self esteem' gets tiring at best. As anti-affair as I am, even I am turned off by your constant negativity and snarky comments to the posters here. What is so wrong in your life/marriage that you feel the need to hang out with women and take pot shots at them? They are hurting enough in many cases - your constant belittling and "external validation/low self esteem' comments do not help them. Can you try to be more helpful instead of putting them down? Can you try to stop labeling women as needing validation and having no self esteem? You aren't female - you do not have a clue what we feel or how we think. Many of the posters have low self esteem and seek external validation. I don't think that you be swept under the rug. No need for pop psych where a person is simply told what she wants to hear. Why are you so angry and those two terms? I only bring them up when t is quite obvious they are causing a problem.
wisernow Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Many of the posters have low self esteem and seek external validation. I don't think that you be swept under the rug. No need for pop psych where a person is simply told what she wants to hear. Why are you so angry and those two terms? I only bring them up when t is quite obvious they are causing a problem. Oh, I know, I know! Cause it's your one size fits all approach to every single woman who posts on these boards. It's tiring and smug and just because you say it over and over and over, doesn't make it true.
Pierre Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Oh, I know, I know! Cause it's your one size fits all approach to every single woman who posts on these boards. It's tiring and smug and just because you say it over and over and over, doesn't make it true. Many have admitted to have those issues. Have you been reading the same forum? Why not try to provide help where help is needed.
wisernow Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Many have admitted to have those issues. Have you been reading the same forum? Why not try to provide help where help is needed. Some have. Some don't admit these issues at all, you just feel the need to assign. That's the tiring and smug part.
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