The nice guy / the jerk / out of my league

[ja123]

You didn't respond to my other post where I asked you questions. It's OK, if you don't want to, I just thought it might be helpful if we had more information.

 

[edit my last post: 'really real', not 'really really'. hehe]

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

Of course we kissed. I'm fairly certain I could have taken her home. It was 330AM and we were 5 min from my place and she told me she was "not tired and a night owl". I said to myself treat her right and not like a random hookup, so I stopped and that was the beginning of the end.

 

Yup. Pedestal City.

 

Never works, man. Go as far as the girl will let you....or you'll lose her forever.

 

Reference: my numerous experiences in the same exact situation.

[CryForNoOne]

Are you the guy that made out in the car with the actress, then went on the hike? Is this the same woman?

 

Yup. That's me.

[SJC2008]

While I understand that most women don't want pushovers, a healthy woman will steer clear from the jerks/bad boys. My theory as to why so "many" women like the jerks and not good men is two fold. One being that I think there are a much higher amount of broken homes/dysfunctional families nowadays than in the past; Thus leading to some sort of daddy issue/bad choice in men. Second, we live in a time where sex is viewed as about as intimate as pumping gas and the bad boys are more aggressive. The days of leave it to beaver are over and it's hard to find genuine people.

[ja123]

Yeah, but other stuff happened on the hike. You kinda FZed her by not kissing her or taking her to a grassy knoll for a make-out session. Maybe she thought you weren't that interested, and it took the wind out of her sails.

 

So, what happened after that?

[CryForNoOne]

OK, so how many women are we talking about here?

 

Describe them.

 

What did they look like?

What type of careers?

How did they act?

What was so attractive about them to you?

How long did you date them?

How did it end, and why?

etc.

 

So I've had 4 LTR (meaning over a year). 4.5 years, 2 years, 7 years, and 1.5 years.

 

All were attractive. Everyone has their own scale but I don't date anyone under a 7. One was a 10.

 

Biologist (the 10). Consultant (McKinsey). Realtor. Singer.

 

They all had totally different personalities. The common thread is that they all really liked me (never took chances when I was younger). All were passive aggressive except the biologist, which is why I had to end it - they never would. I only loved one of them (the biologist). I met her when I was 22 and she pursued me. I really loved her but was too young and wouldn't commit. She left me after 4.5 years and I definitely have regrets.

 

So my depression stems from a series of empty relationships spanning 14 years since we broke up. None have even compared remotely. This girl I met three weeks ago reminded me so much of her. And the way things started was exactly the same intensity. I don't need to be told the obvious that I've made too many unhealthy comparisons and associations with a past lover.

 

I think I mentioned in the prior thread I like beautiful nerds and that they are really rare. I've met/dated two in my life. One 19 years ago and I blew it with her. And one I met 3 weeks ago. We still text almost daily but we had the official lets be friends talk after date #3.

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

So I've had 4 LTR (meaning over a year). 4.5 years, 2 years, 7 years, and 1.5 years.

 

All were attractive. Everyone has their own scale but I don't date anyone under a 7. One was a 10.

 

Biologist (the 10). Consultant (McKinsey). Realtor. Singer.

 

They all had totally different personalities. The common thread is that they all really liked me (never took chances when I was younger). All were passive aggressive except the biologist, which is why I had to end it - they never would. I only loved one of them (the biologist). I met her when I was 22 and she pursued me. I really loved her but was too young and wouldn't commit. She left me after 4.5 years and I definitely have regrets.

 

So my depression stems from a series of empty relationships spanning 14 years since we broke up. None have even compared remotely. This girl I met three weeks ago reminded me so much of her. And the way things started was exactly the same intensity. I don't need to be told the obvious that I've made too many unhealthy comparisons and associations with a past lover.

 

I think I mentioned in the prior thread I like beautiful nerds and that they are really rare. I've met/dated two in my life. One 19 years ago and I blew it with her. And one I met 3 weeks ago. We still text almost daily but we had the official lets be friends talk after date #3.

 

You sound a lot like me.....with similar tastes in women.

 

You need to relax and stop putting women on a pedestal. You found a beautiful nerd. So what? You know how you have to act and what you have to do to get her. So do it.

 

You're thinking too much and creating problems that aren't really there. (#firstworldproblem)

[CryForNoOne]

Yeah, but other stuff happened on the hike. You kinda FZed her by not kissing her or taking her to a grassy knoll for a make-out session. Maybe she thought you weren't that interested, and it took the wind out of her sails.

 

So, what happened after that?

 

So we went out again last weekend after she got off work. We had some drinks and then had a late night meal. That's when we had the FZ convo. Her exact words were "I'm feeling more of a friendship connection than a romantic connection now". Dagger.

 

Anyway, we text almost every day and she still sends me slightly suggestive texts like last night "I just opened a bottle of wine! Feeling pretty good about it :)" I'm backing off for the moment though.

[ja123]

Well, the game isn't over. Let her see you out one night after you finished a set. Have a few drinks, then have a few more. You're bound to score.

 

It's sad, but booze can help people loosen up.

[ja123]

Just a thought, but she's probably a young actress and not very serious about doing anything more than a casual FWB right now. So, I don't think it has anything to do with you, per se, as she clearly likes you. It's just the wrong timing.

 

She probably senses that you're more relationship-minded and, out of respect for you, she let you know. It does hurt, though.

 

The thing is you could play it into an FWB, but would you be happy with that?

[CryForNoOne]

Just a thought, but she's probably a young actress and not very serious about doing anything more than a casual FWB right now. So, I don't think it has anything to do with you, per se, as she clearly likes you. It's just the wrong timing.

 

She probably senses that you're more relationship-minded and, out of respect for you, she let you know. It does hurt, though.

 

The thing is you could play it into an FWB, but would you be happy with that?

She's 29. An yes I'm totally looking for something long term with her. I wonder if the age thing bothers her. All that stuff takes on a different context when things get serious.

 

In all honesty I'd take anything with her at this moment. It may seem weird to some but I'm sick and tired of being the object of affection in every relationship. I have no idea what it's like to ask someone "how come you never say you love me?"

[CryForNoOne]

Well, the game isn't over. Let her see you out one night after you finished a set. Have a few drinks, then have a few more. You're bound to score.

 

It's sad, but booze can help people loosen up.

 

If that's all I wanted I could get that with someone else almost every night of the week. I'm looking to create something real with her.

[CptSaveAho]

Why not take a break from dating?

 

You get heismaned (friend zoned) by a chick and yet continue talking to her and chasing her

 

Weird. You have a better shot at winning the powerball jackpot with guessing the megamillions money ball correctly then having a shot at her

[Estate]

Three topics because I’m conflicted about all three at the moment. I’m 41 and I started sleeping with a girl a lot younger than me – 27. I was totally upfront with her that I did not want a LTR. She said she was fine just being f**kbuddies while we both looked for relationships. Being from an older generation, it seemed odd at first but I went along with it. Turns out it is total BS. She’s madly in love with me and I see all the telltale signs. More so, I’ve begun acting like a jerk and it is just getting worse. I told her point blank about a girl I met a few weeks ago that I’m totally crazy about. I talk openly about all the girls I’m interested in. Our pillow talk is me droning on about other girls while she pretends to play the role of the sympathetic friend. Late last night she saw me out with 3 girls and sent me rambling texts afterwards – “what trouble are you getting into”, “can’t believe you’re making a move on her (mutual friend)”, “Stop!”, “whatever, it’s your life”, then cursing at me…

 

A few nights before I was having drinks with her and her ex-roomate. Her friend was telling me about how she is in love with this guy but he won’t say he loves her or refer to her as a GF in public. It sounded like a story I’m all too familiar with. I decided to break the cold hard truth to her. I said “he doesn’t love you and he’s waiting for someone else better to come along”. She told me that gave her clarity. Next thing I know, a few drinks later, she’s hitting on me. Correct me if I’m wrong, alcohol or no alcohol, holding my hand the two times my FB wasn’t around, and telling me I have “warm soft hands” is pretty damn blatant. I said/did a couple other things that night which were typical confident / jerk stuff. I’ve been in a bitter mood as I got friend zoned by the girl of my dreams a week ago. So I’m filling the void by hanging out with tons of girls I know and the more I say things like I just don’t care, the more they are attracted to me. WTF!

 

So the girl (and her 2 friends) I hung out with last night are even younger. Early 20’s, and she’s the youngest of all at 21. Her boyfriend is away for 3 months and she’s pretty lonely. She’s very cute and made herself available to me but I just couldn’t go there. 21 is just too damn young. But I’m astounded at what I can get away with these days – when I just don’t care. BTW though I’m 41, I look like I’m 25 so I fit right in with this younger crowd. They never seem to care about my age…

 

So now to the girl who is “out of my league” so to speak. She’s the complete package and she knows it. When I was younger, I would have had a huge problem approaching someone like her, but at some point in my 30’s I hit my stride and now I have no problem at all. All through my 20’s I was the proverbial “nice guy” and only ended up with girls who were layups or basically pursued me. It kinda saddens me that once I stopped playing the nice guy, and started playing games I literally started getting 10x dates. Anyway, I met her at a bar, and used all my charms to wow her. We had instant chemistry, I got a date with her the very next night, and we stayed out all night both having a fabulous time. I was in full-on confident / jerk mode and she was eating it up. Then I decided I REALLY liked her. And the nice guy came out and two dates later I’m officially friend zoned. So what is the deal? Why do women all say they want nice guys but only go for the jerks. I’ve clearly been playing both roles of late and the results are the exact opposite of what I want to create.

 

I look around and all I see are people who seem to want somebody (out of their league) and that object of desire doesn’t feel the same way. Men use those girls for sex while they look for someone else. The girls accept this horrific f**kbuddy BS which is just degrading to be frank. Meanwhile, guys pine after women they can’t have. Almost everybody is miserable and I think only 10% of couples are really happy. How is this vicious cycle broken…

 

I think people mis-interprete the nice guy vs. jerk thing.

 

You don't have to be a total douchebag to get girls but the "nice" guy is boring, he chases girls, he wants something from them but can't give the same back... he will buy her presents but can't excite her or stimulate her... his conversation is lame and boring and it's the same thing over and over.

 

You can get girls without being a jerk... but the jerk is confident. He says whats on his mind. He is interesting, he has options and she wants to be the one he chooses....

 

I always come back to Ryan Goslings character in Crazy Stupid Love.

He's not a jerk to anyone, but he's no where near a nice guy. He's just confident in himself, self assured, does and says what he wants, takes care of himself and thus, he has options. He excites those around him.

[dasein]

I don't know how old you are but when I was 25 and couldn't get a date on a Friday night if my life depended on it, I would have agreed with you. I'm actually in a pretty deep state of depression over this girl and am just filling the void with other women. It's like a temporary high when I'm with them and then I go right back to depression the moment I'm alone again. Sucks.

 

Am close to your age and had similar problems in my 20s. Sorry you are feeling down over this particular woman, and hope you are able to move past it quickly.

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

Am close to your age and had similar problems in my 20s. Sorry you are feeling down over this particular woman, and hope you are able to move past it quickly.

 

Haha damn.

 

This forum is really encouraging me to stay single into my 40s. You guys are rock stars!

[nofool4u]

Haha damn.

 

This forum is really encouraging me to stay single into my 40s. You guys are rock stars!

 

Hey, its the motto I'm living by. The OP is right. For some reason alot of the women eat up that bad boy crap. And it doesn't even have to be those that are out of man's league.

 

I think the nice guys do get crapped all over, just as the truly nice women are.

 

But I think the nice guy wins in the long run. Why? Because after a while women end up getting tired of the bad boy crap. And when that happens, the nice guys can be very selective.

 

And to dispell the myth, nice guys can be extremely attractive, but because of their good nature, just like women in the same boat, the women they date know they can push the boundaries and take advantage of their good nature. Perhaps this is where there is benefit in being a bad boy.

 

But now in my early 40's, the dating scene is wonderful. I'm not looking for a commitment (not that I won't enter one, just not looking). Like I said, after they finally realize the bad boys are treating them poorly, the nice guys can then be selective

[RedRobin]

Your 'perfect combination' won't want a guy who treats women like you apparently do and can spot it a mile away.

 

Have fun while it lasts...

[ThaWholigan]

Hey, its the motto I'm living by. The OP is right. For some reason alot of the women eat up that bad boy crap. And it doesn't even have to be those that are out of man's league.

 

I think the nice guys do get crapped all over, just as the truly nice women are.

 

But I think the nice guy wins in the long run. Why? Because after a while women end up getting tired of the bad boy crap. And when that happens, the nice guys can be very selective.

 

And to dispell the myth, nice guys can be extremely attractive, but because of their good nature, just like women in the same boat, the women they date know they can push the boundaries and take advantage of their good nature. Perhaps this is where there is benefit in being a bad boy.

 

But now in my early 40's, the dating scene is wonderful. I'm not looking for a commitment (not that I won't enter one, just not looking). Like I said, after they finally realize the bad boys are treating them poorly, the nice guys can then be selective

And to further dispel a myth:

 

There are all sorts of variations between Nice guy and Jerk. They are not the only types of guy that exist on the planet! Shock horror .

[RedRobin]

I should add... the woman you are pining for has other men her own age (and YOUR age) she could build a life with who haven't done or are doing the things you are doing.

 

So you didn't want to commit to the woman of your dreams when you were 22 and think you can make up for lost time? Sorry pal. Life is a bitch. You can't go back.

 

Character-wise... You are no prize at all.

[NiceGuyDTW]

Ill add my 2 cents to the OP...this guy is not right for you. Period. He appears to be hung up on your past, you lied to him. If you hide it now, it will come back...karma....If you tell him, he will lose respect for you, and you'll never know where he stands with you. It's a lose/lose situation.

 

Advice...come clean now. See how he reacts. If he wants to end it, then you'll have to deal with it. If not, then you both need to have a long discussion about this issue and put EVERYTHING out on the table about how you feel...as mentioned professional counselling may be needed.

[ThaWholigan]

Ill add my 2 cents to the OP...this guy is not right for you. Period. He appears to be hung up on your past, you lied to him. If you hide it now, it will come back...karma....If you tell him, he will lose respect for you, and you'll never know where he stands with you. It's a lose/lose situation.

 

Advice...come clean now. See how he reacts. If he wants to end it, then you'll have to deal with it. If not, then you both need to have a long discussion about this issue and put EVERYTHING out on the table about how you feel...as mentioned professional counselling may be needed.

I agree, but this is the wrong thread

[serial muse]

It is weird to me that people are so focused on the old trope of "women only like bad boys". Because that's not the OP's story at all, no matter how he's spinning it.

 

OP likes girls who don't want him. He's bored with the ones that do. He said so himself. He doesn't want the ones that like him for himself.

 

OK So I was myself for 15 years or so and I've had several women "love me". Been proposed to 3 times. The problem is I seem to only want women that I can get by "not being myself". I've only been in love once and that was a long time ago.

[NiceGuyDTW]

I agree, but this is the wrong thread

 

Yes I know....I tried to delete it

[serial muse]

Haha, I tried to edit my post but didn't get there quickly enough.

 

I wanted to add this:

 

Maybe the problem isn't that women in general don't know what they want (apparently they do, as he's been proposed to three times by women who like him for himself), but that the OP specifically doesn't know what he wants???

 

Radical, I know.