Enabling the AP to have a better marriage by having an affair with them?

March 6, 2013

I discussed this subject with my xMM during our A. In the beginning of the A, when it was just a "mutual understanding", he said he was a happier "content" man at home. It was bc the distraction (excitement) that I provided him made his daily life seems more entertaining. The lack of attention from his BW was being filled by me, the things he found annoying and irritating at home was not so bad anymore, and whenever his BW turned down his advances, he could not care less, he had options now. He was more tolerable bc he was less invested at home. I felt almost the same way. I would go about my average family weekend but I did it with a smile bc I knew xMM was somewhere else looking at me with envy and wishing he was there with me. Complete and total ego boost sometimes!!!!!!

However, that was in the beginning...then feelings got involved and turned things sour. Envy turned into unreasonable jealousy. Being jealous made us irritated with our situation and soon enough be irritated turned into anger at the world. We both played the victim very well...not healthy.

March 6, 2013

You took a swing at me. Period. You want to act coy fine but it is pretty apparent.

I was trying to explain what the OP may have been referring to to help those that have not been in those shoe to see the point and then discuss.

But I know trying to actually understand each side to come to some sort of understanding is not a priority to all here.

You need to calm down.

I am not swinging at you. I expressed surprise. Not coy. I tried to joke about the heels, because your response was over the top. I was attempting add some levity.

A swing would look much different, and that's not my style.

I try very hard to look at all sides. I think I do a good job, in most instances, of not promoting scenarios where people harm themselves. And that includes other women and men.

I don't want anyone to be hurt in affairs. Anyone.

And I don't want people to support faulty constructs that can lead to further hurt down the road- such as Harley's unmet needs hypothesis.

If you find my posts to be attacking towards you- then please put me on ignore.

My priority is actually understanding other points of view. It's why I was sent here originally. I'm sorry you don't see that.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Decorative

March 6, 2013

Yes. I see a lot of situations where the affair makes the marriage relationship more bearable - because the WSs needs are being met elsewhere. It definitely has it's obstacles too, but it is a balm for a dead marriage, no doubt about it. Which is why usually, when the affair ends, the marriage crumbles. It's like empty nest divorces - when the kids are there to focus on (something happy and satisfying) the marriage is able to continue without many ripples. But, once the kids are gone, and the married partners are forced to focus on one another - it crumbles because there isn't anything there holding them together any longer.

It was true in my situation as the OW - and almost immediately after I ended the affair, they were in the process of a divorce. Without me there to meet exMMs needs (intimacy needs of all kinds), they just couldn't stand to even be in the same room together any longer. I know that exMM should have put his focus into his marriage, and I tried to get him to do so - but eh, can't force other people to do what they don't want to do. So, I simply removed myself from the equation. I knew in my heart of hearts that they wouldn't last long - that I had enabled them to continue on for many years past the death of their relationship.

It's not a pretty story - nor am I saying that I did anyone a favor. I'm just stating that in reality - yes, without me being there for him, they had to look at their marriage and really see it for what it was. It was dead LONG before I came along and I only prolonged the inevitable divorce. And imo, the divorce that should have happened MANY years before I ever met him - and the divorce that they were both putting off simply bc it was easier to stay.

March 6, 2013

During the affair our marriage actually reached a new low - H was distant and cold. Once Dday was over we both realised we needed to work on our relationship and now it's better than it's been for years. So yes, the affair did help our marriage but possibly not in the way you meant.

March 6, 2013

I discussed this subject with my xMM during our A. In the beginning of the A, when it was just a "mutual understanding", he said he was a happier "content" man at home. It was bc the distraction (excitement) that I provided him made his daily life seems more entertaining. The lack of attention from his BW was being filled by me, the things he found annoying and irritating at home was not so bad anymore, and whenever his BW turned down his advances, he could not care less, he had options now. He was more tolerable bc he was less invested at home. I felt almost the same way. I would go about my average family weekend but I did it with a smile bc I knew xMM was somewhere else looking at me with envy and wishing he was there with me. Complete and total ego boost sometimes!!!!!!

However, that was in the beginning...then feelings got involved and turned things sour. Envy turned into unreasonable jealousy. Being jealous made us irritated with our situation and soon enough be irritated turned into anger at the world. We both played the victim very well...not healthy.

I can relate to your post so much. Our feelings have been way too involved now, and we are at the point where I never even want to hear him mention his W, and I don't want to talk about my H to him. We are also irritated with our situation, with no one to talk to except each other. That ego boost, followed by the terrible crash..

March 7, 2013

Well he's still married, and now he has someone to hold his hand, and talk to, and kiss and snuggle and cuddle with, me....
and he still has someone who cleans his house and watches his kids and manages his finances and cooks and does laundryall kinds of other things that need to be done over there.

Oh yeah, and then he has his wife.
So yes I suppose the fact that I suggested he hire a housekeeper has greatly improved his marriag.e

No doubt in my mind that a housekeeper significantly improves any marriage!

March 7, 2013

I don't know if his marriage is happier but, I do know he is happier. How?

Because he said "I am happy for the first time in years."

March 7, 2013

Nah, I mean, I can see how this would make some sense on a certain level…like your MM is happier overall and so happier ENDURING his marriage because he’s got the OW there as well to “help” him, but at best, all this would do would perpetuate the lies and betrayal and disrespect to the MM’s wife and prolong the time before any actual productive change in the situation (either leaving the marriage which obviously isn’t providing everything he needs for whatever reason, or properly re-committing to the marriage.)

It doesn’t really HELP anything at all. It just makes it EASIER for the MM to stay married for longer I guess. But that’s not a good thing.

March 7, 2013

Nah, I mean, I can see how this would make some sense on a certain level…like your MM is happier overall and so happier ENDURING his marriage because he’s got the OW there as well to “help” him, but at best, all this would do would perpetuate the lies and betrayal and disrespect to the MM’s wife and prolong the time before any actual productive change in the situation (either leaving the marriage which obviously isn’t providing everything he needs for whatever reason, or properly re-committing to the marriage.)

It doesn’t really HELP anything at all. It just makes it EASIER for the MM to stay married for longer I guess. But that’s not a good thing.

Stevie, I agree with you on that, and have experienced what you are saying in my own M as well as felt the MM doing the same thing in his. My plan is to re-commit to my M rather than leaving my H. In my M, I'm the one with more issues, so I will have to work on them. But in the OMM's case, from what I have gathered, his W also has major issues, and is the type to not change or give in. I do feel for him, and I hope that he chooses what makes him happy, instead of staying in a situation mostly because they parent well together.

March 7, 2013

I've wondered about this before, and this may have been discussed in other posts, but wanted to bring it up again.. Does anyone feel like you were actually helping your AP's marriage/relationship by staying in either an emotional or physical affair with them? I've thought that in my case with the MM. When I first started talking to him, he was talking about how he has wondered about divorce, and he couldn't bear to live without his kids, and that's why he was staying etc.. His W used to always stress him out. But as our EA/PA continued (mostly EA), his marriage seemed to magically start going well. And then whenever we didn't talk for a while, things weren't so great. I'm at the point where I'm not going to be his 'marriage therapy medicine' any longer, and I'm not going to apply the same concept in my M either.

Has anyone else noticed this with your AP, or within your own relationship/marriage?

LOL don't mean to laugh, but frankly, I don't think you help his marriage so much as when he wants you to engage with him he spins a sad story about him leaving etc. so that you'll either have hope or feel bad and comfort him, sleep with him, talk to him etc. Then once you do and you start getting comfy, he no longer needs to talk about his bad marriage, especially so as not to give you any crazy ideas about asking him to leave. It's more about managing your expectations IMO and having you where he wants you and not a testament of the A as aiding the marriage.

It's like as a kid when I didn't want to do something, like go to school or some other obligation, and I'd feign illness so that my mom would take care of me and let me stay home. I needed to act like I was terribly sick and lethargic so she would believe me But once I got the green light to stay home (before I got smarter about it lol) I would forget to be so ill and I would be fine and want to eat ice-cream and watch tv. It wasn't that I suddenly got better...it was that I wasn't sick to begin with!

Your MM sounds like that. Feigning a bad marriage to pull you in and when you are in, he forgets to continue faking it or purposely stops as there is no need to be moaning and groaning when he's metaphorically already at home with ice-cream in hand watching cartoons. But of course, as soon as you leave, or mom says "Back to school for you tomorrow" you suddenly become ill/have a bad marriage again LOL smh

March 7, 2013

Stevie, I agree with you on that, and have experienced what you are saying in my own M as well as felt the MM doing the same thing in his. My plan is to re-commit to my M rather than leaving my H. In my M, I'm the one with more issues, so I will have to work on them. But in the OMM's case, from what I have gathered, his W also has major issues, and is the type to not change or give in. I do feel for him, and I hope that he chooses what makes him happy, instead of staying in a situation mostly because they parent well together.

Yes. There are SO many reasons why spouses decide to stay together. Maybe they’re not the best reasons for their own happiness, but it’s up to them and we can’t really change that or fully understand, no matter how close we are to the MM or MW, as the OW or OM.

I found when I was happy in my affair, happy with my MM and enjoying my life more, I was also in turn happier with my partner.

I kind of see it as “sharing” the love in a way. Like you can’t always (at least after several years) get every single thing you need from one single person. So if you can get most of what you need to feel happy from NOT just one single person, then I guess that’s good. But it’s not really either. If you’ve committed to that one single person, and you can’t get all that you need from them and aren’t happy, you have to decide whether you will EVER be happy with just one person, no matter who they are, if you are willing to “settle” to an extent and stay in your marriage, or whether you will leave, give your spouse the freedom to be with someone who DOES get all that they need from them (for a while anyway), and try to find your own happiness elsewhere.

March 7, 2013

Maybe I’m the exception. I never treated my partner badly during my affair. I treated her the same as I did before, and nothing has changed since the affair ended. I have always been good to her. I did not change.

March 7, 2013

Ummm...no. Most WS's treat their wives terribly while in the affair. It's insulting for an OW to say they're helping our marriages.

No thank you.

The question wasn't specifically related to an OW helping the man's marriage, nor did I claim that I was helping my OMM's marriage. It applied to an OM or an OW. As a M OW, I mentioned my story, but it was in no way meant to be an insult to wives of MM. Again, the initial point of my question was lost, but I'm not going to try to explain it yet again, since I did that a few times throughout this thread Anyway, I wouldn't WANT to be the person helping my MM's marriage in any way. Me being in love with him doesn't go well with that. I have told him that I don't even want to hear about their issues.

March 7, 2013

There were times, earlier on in my affair when after being on a high from the relationship with exOM I was happier, and therefore more generous with "loving" my husband. In quotes because it wasn't really loving but at least kinder, warmer, more affectionate, etc. Over time though it really took a major toll- I became angry and miserable, constantly distracted especially if I could not see exOM. The marriage did not stay static but deteriorated to depths I did not imagine possible.

I also think the affair enabled me to stay in an unhappy marriage. I don't think the unmet needs theory is all bad- husband met my need for family and exOM met a lot of other needs including romance/passion. If you don't think that people meet relationship needs for other people and that all needs are or should be self-fulfilled, then I can see not buying into that theory. Some affairs happen in relatively happy marriages and some happen in unfulfilled ones.

I don't think an affair can ever help a marriage to grow or thrive in any way shape or form.

March 7, 2013

Psm04 - yu don’t want to hear about your MM’s marriage issues? Do you think that will ever be a problem, like a barrier between you? His marriage is a significant part of his life, whether he’s happy or not, and if you’re important to him, he may feel the need to share that with you.

March 7, 2013

Yes. There are SO many reasons why spouses decide to stay together. Maybe they’re not the best reasons for their own happiness, but it’s up to them and we can’t really change that or fully understand, no matter how close we are to the MM or MW, as the OW or OM.

I found when I was happy in my affair, happy with my MM and enjoying my life more, I was also in turn happier with my partner.

I kind of see it as “sharing” the love in a way. Like you can’t always (at least after several years) get every single thing you need from one single person. So if you can get most of what you need to feel happy from NOT just one single person, then I guess that’s good. But it’s not really either. If you’ve committed to that one single person, and you can’t get all that you need from them and aren’t happy, you have to decide whether you will EVER be happy with just one person, no matter who they are, if you are willing to “settle” to an extent and stay in your marriage, or whether you will leave, give your spouse the freedom to be with someone who DOES get all that they need from them (for a while anyway), and try to find your own happiness elsewhere.

Your words hit hard. I've been struggling with this concept in my own M. I've wondered whether me leaving my H would really help me to be happier, because even if I find someone who has the qualities that my H lacks, they could never be everything that he is now. My A actually made me realize that. I do love the OMM, but at the same time, he will never be able to replace everything that I have with my H, and that's what prompted me to go forward with ending things with the MM (not successful yet, but I will get there). I don't know if one will ever find someone who gives them everything they want and need. I don't think it's possible.

A friend of mine once said that this is why he doesn't agree with the concept of marriage and settling down with one person for the rest of your life. He thinks that everyone in your life serves some part of your 'needs bucket', and a combination of those people in your life makes you content. Now, I'm not saying that I agree with this at all, but just thought I'd mention it.

March 7, 2013

Psm04 - yu don’t want to hear about your MM’s marriage issues? Do you think that will ever be a problem, like a barrier between you? His marriage is a significant part of his life, whether he’s happy or not, and if you’re important to him, he may feel the need to share that with you.

Well, I used to, and would listen to whatever he had to say, but I got so tired of him coming back the next week and saying 'we are good now', or 'i love my wife and i'm in love with her, i'm never leaving her' etc (while telling me how great i am)., that I now have an aversion to hearing about her. Now, if we were in an exclusive relationship with each other, I'd be fine with either one of us talking about our ex spouses, granted that we only did that when necessary. From my experience, the less you know about someone's relationships, the better. Saves you from getting jealous etc. I have that issue, and unfortunately, I never forget things. He mentioned when his anniversary was to me during the beginning of our A, and every year, I know on that day that it is their anniversary. It's just unnecessary pain, you know?

March 7, 2013

There were times, earlier on in my affair when after being on a high from the relationship with exOM I was happier, and therefore more generous with "loving" my husband. In quotes because it wasn't really loving but at least kinder, warmer, more affectionate, etc. Over time though it really took a major toll- I became angry and miserable, constantly distracted especially if I could not see exOM. The marriage did not stay static but deteriorated to depths I did not imagine possible.

I also think the affair enabled me to stay in an unhappy marriage. I don't think the unmet needs theory is all bad- husband met my need for family and exOM met a lot of other needs including romance/passion. If you don't think that people meet relationship needs for other people and that all needs are or should be self-fulfilled, then I can see not buying into that theory. Some affairs happen in relatively happy marriages and some happen in unfulfilled ones.

I don't think an affair can ever help a marriage to grow or thrive in any way shape or form.

Act Two, I think that for my OMM, his W meets his need for family/stability, and I meet his passion/connection needs. For me, I don't have any kids, but my H meets my security/stability needs, and the OMM meets my need to feel the desire to be intimate, both physically and emotionally, as well as some other things. It is so messed up, and we are both selfish. That's why I want to be able to look at my M without the presence of the A, so that I can truly determine whether things are as good in my M as I think.

March 7, 2013

Well, I used to, and would listen to whatever he had to say, but I got so tired of him coming back the next week and saying 'we are good now', or 'i love my wife and i'm in love with her, i'm never leaving her' etc (while telling me how great i am)., that I now have an aversion to hearing about her. Now, if we were in an exclusive relationship with each other, I'd be fine with either one of us talking about our ex spouses, granted that we only did that when necessary. From my experience, the less you know about someone's relationships, the better. Saves you from getting jealous etc. I have that issue, and unfortunately, I never forget things. He mentioned when his anniversary was to me during the beginning of our A, and every year, I know on that day that it is their anniversary. It's just unnecessary pain, you know?

Ah, I see now. Yes, that would be really hard to deal with all the time.

And yeah, the sharing and needs thing. You CAN'T get every single thing from one person. You just can't. This is why we're supposed to be well rounded individuals with varying levels of friendships, family, colleagues AND one romantic partner. But what if you need more than that? What if you need several romantic partner roles to fulfill you? This I think is me...

March 7, 2013

And you spoke to the wife about this? During your affair?

That old chestnut lol.

No, him, extensively. And several members of his family later on. And friends.

March 7, 2013

i don't think an AP aids the failing marriage. he/she just causes a distraction from problems for the WS.

in the beginning of my A i felt happy, happier than i've been for years. during that time my H and marriage benefited from it superficially - but underneath i was becoming detached.

after a short time i have become mentally and emotionally invested in the other person; there was nothing left for my husband. problems in my marriage were still there, but not brought up, as it was no longer a priority for me.

once i put a stop to the A everything changed. i can say that my marriage looks a lot worse now than it did during the A - but at least it's true and real.

March 7, 2013

YOu enable the AP to evade issues in the marriage. You are a great big bandaid.

March 7, 2013

The A enabled my fMM to endure his M longer, until he could make peace with breaking up the family and could learn better ways of managing a separation that would not traumatise the kids again. But no, it did not "improve" his M- it shone a very harsh spotlight on it and exposed all the cracks, by providing a contrasting mode, of what a loving R between consenting adults should be like.

In the short-term, though, it definitely can I prove the day-to-day experience of the M. My parents stuck it out "for the kids" and it was a war zone. Until my father's A. Then things at home improved dramatically - he was happier, lighter, would actually engage us when he got home instead of just disappearing into his workshop, or lying down on his bed to sleep. He smiled again, laughed, was kind and even stopped smoking! The change was phenomenal. And then, once we left home, so did he, and the reason for the sudden change became clear.

March 7, 2013

I rally question whether or not someone can really know for sure if someone elses marriage is "improved' or not...

perhaps the wayward spouse may say that it is for him/her ( which, to my way of thinking, would be a real kick in the pants for an other man/woman and would be very hard and sad for them to hear if they want to be with them on a full time basis)...

whether or not it's actually better for both is an assumption that i don't think any other man/woman or even wayward spouse can make...there simply is no way that they can ever know how the betrayed spouse is thinking/feeling ( unless they choose to tell the other man/woman themselves)...

it's surprising how many wayward spouses think they are treating their betrayed spouses just fine during an affair, but when betrayed spouses are asked about it, there is a totally different story

FS - I don't disagree and it is a sad realization to a number of OP when you realize that you are helping keep status quo if you are wanting next steps. But I do think, for some waywards, this is the core foundation of the cake eating. This is why they want to keep the spouse and the OP. And yes they are viewing strictly from their shoes/point of view.

I think a number of BS and OP would have a different take on those days. I also think it lends to why there is a balance if both AP are married, at that time it is in both their "interests" to keep the status quo. What upsets the apple cart and normally starts to change the dynamics of the affair is if one moves forward with divorcing (generally the woman) and realizes that both parties were not actually on the same page.

March 7, 2013

The A enabled my fMM to endure his M longer, until he could make peace with breaking up the family and could learn better ways of managing a separation that would not traumatise the kids again. But no, it did not "improve" his M- it shone a very harsh spotlight on it and exposed all the cracks, by providing a contrasting mode, of what a loving R between consenting adults should be like.

In the short-term, though, it definitely can I prove the day-to-day experience of the M. My parents stuck it out "for the kids" and it was a war zone. Until my father's A. Then things at home improved dramatically - he was happier, lighter, would actually engage us when he got home instead of just disappearing into his workshop, or lying down on his bed to sleep. He smiled again, laughed, was kind and even stopped smoking! The change was phenomenal. And then, once we left home, so did he, and the reason for the sudden change became clear.

Unfortunately this was my experience without any upswing. Now my mom's affair was when I was a baby so any residue from it is hard to place and over the decades enough other poor behavior on both sides layered on top of it to know where one thing may have ended and another began. When I found out about the affair, after I was an adult by my father, it was said as almost an after thought. We had discussed it a few times, and maybe it being so long ago, it is not a primary issue/emotional avenue, for him. I think there was more than enough damage to go around. Anyway, sorry t/j.

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