Koekie Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I am a soon to be walk away wife, after two years of marriage. My situation is unique and strange, but thats due more to geographical issues and an isolated location than anything else. Before we got married my husband lived in another country. We dated online, met up and then I found out he had another girlfriend. I was hurt, broke up and he then decided to move here. He says to be with me. (I live in a backward place, but he would have had a better salary) Anyways, Im not too difficult, I get that people make mistakes and I tried to forgive and forget. I however never had a chance to heal from this. When I cried I cried alone. He got angry when I tried to talk about it and ignored me when I cried. He told me to stop thinking about it and throwing it in his face then it will pass. I tried to explain to him that I need understanding and to be held and just to let me sometimes be angry and let it out. He couldnt or wouldnt understand that. In the end the other woman was the one who helped me get over it and she is a very very dear friend of mine now. She also didnt know about me. He has not ever really showed me much affection. He told me its because I was so angry with him over him cheating and forever bringing it up. Maybe I have it wrong, but I reckon if you cheated you eat dirt and do whatever you can to make it right. He expected me to get over it and be happy with a snap of his fingers. I resent this more than I resent the cheating. I tried to nicely tell me I just needed him to hold me and tell me its okay and he loves me. Nada. I tried to leave him a few times at which point he would go beserk, it was horrible to see, he was crying begging and promising things would change. It did for a while, then wed be right back at square 1. No hugs, no kissing, and no sex. From his side. The last time I insisted on counselling. From leaving the house to the office of this counsellor he was a miserable twat and made it as horrible as possible. Anyways, some good did come of it and he seems to have more peace in himself and his past demons seem to have receded a bit. He however refused to follow the excercises to build intimacy or he would sigh if I mentioned it roll over and really just not put effort into it. There are no words in the world to say how awful this makes a woman feel. The last time we went I didnt really participate, I mean what was the point? Here the short of the long of it. IF YOU REJECT YOUR SPOUSE OVER AND OVER AGAIN they will at some point leave. My husband thinks everything is hunky dory. He has the energy to play 18 holes of golf, but not to make love to me. He has the time to drink his brandy, but not the time to hug me. I only see him on weekends since he has since started working in another town, and I usually get a warm affectionate closed mouth kiss goodbye at the end of the weekend. I have since the last session, kept giving him affection, never ever asked for anything from him and kept smiling in the face of countless rejections. These range from anything from I am too hot for cuddles (but hell turn around and cuddle the dog or cat or walks miles in the burning sun for golf) to Im tired (no problem for golf though) to I am always nagging (havent mentioned his lack of affection or anything for that matter for months) etc. etc. etc. When I tried to leave he would fall to pieces, swear that he loves me and really loses the plot. That is the only time I have ever seen REAL emotion other than anger behind his gorgeous eyes. What I fail to understand is his complete inability to see what he is doing to me. He thinks I feel he is not good enough for me. That nothing he ever does is good enough. But honestly giving your wife A hug for a whole weekend, is just not good enough. So anyways, I have done whatever he wants regardless of what I get in return. Before I would refuse to do little chores for him, because what the hell was I getting in return? Now I do everything with a big old smile and when hes not looking I cry. I can stand in front of him naked and he hardly glances at me. To make it all the more interesting he really put effort in for the other girl. In three weeks I will be visiting him, with divorce papers in my bag. He has no clue whats coming. Whats the point of telling him even yet again, how hurtful his behaviour is? I can already hear his words. He had no idea I was this unhappy, he told me he is trying to change (two years later now) and if only I did that or I did this or bla bla. I dont even want to hear it again so I will be leaving him a letter. There is no other man. I just dont want to feel so hurt anymore. 9
Radu Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 If what you wrote is true, good for you. Be carefull though, he has gotten used to this game by now. 3
Mr. Lucky Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 Before we got married my husband lived in another country. We dated online, met up and then I found out he had another girlfriend. I was hurt, broke up and he then decided to move here. He says to be with me. (I live in a backward place, but he would have had a better salary) Anyways, Im not too difficult, I get that people make mistakes and I tried to forgive and forget. I however never had a chance to heal from this. When I cried I cried alone. He got angry when I tried to talk about it and ignored me when I cried. He told me to stop thinking about it and throwing it in his face then it will pass. I tried to explain to him that I need understanding and to be held and just to let me sometimes be angry and let it out. He couldnt or wouldnt understand that. In the end the other woman was the one who helped me get over it and she is a very very dear friend of mine now. She also didnt know about me. What is there about this early history that could possibly have motivated you to go ahead with the marriage to him ??? Mr. Lucky 1
LadyGrey Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 You have a long, long list of righteous reasons to leave that man. I truly hope you do and I hope you find that you deserve so much more, because you do. Be strong and do what your inner voice has you planning on doing. I wish you all the best! 4
Author Koekie Posted March 6, 2013 Author Posted March 6, 2013 Well, I just told him yesterday I want a divorce. I just couldnt pretend anymore. He's devestated, says he didn't have a clue I was so unhappy. I dont get this because honestly how many times can a person tell you something and you still dont hear it. I think the thing with him is he cannot do emotional intimacy. At all. But he had two years to sort it out and he didnt. My problem is I'm a sucker for hope. 4
dreamingoftigers Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 Well, I just told him yesterday I want a divorce. I just couldnt pretend anymore. He's devestated, says he didn't have a clue I was so unhappy. I dont get this because honestly how many times can a person tell you something and you still dont hear it. I think the thing with him is he cannot do emotional intimacy. At all. But he had two years to sort it out and he didnt. My problem is I'm a sucker for hope. Sigh. You married my husband's "identical twin." Except I get more hugs when I ask for them. He had "no idea you were so unhappy" because dopes like this DON'T LISTEN and only learn THE HARD WAY. If you show unhappiness, you get punished so that you fall back in line. Intimacy is like a BIG FAVOR from them because intimacy and relationships aren't the priority in their life. Whatever they are into now is. When they're into you, you are the ultimate. When they're into fishing or school or music or another girl, guess what? That's the ULTIMATE. There's no time for you now, you don't fill my immediate needs. Piss off." I have found that often guys like this don't listen because they had really spazzy or completely absentee Moms. So they either tune out the "unhappy talk" and just react to get things back in line. "unhappy talk and complaints" were just the white noise of their childhood so they don't take it seriously until you walk away. Then it's like "ERMAGHERD! There might be a problem here." My husband was use to getting thrown out of the house by his mother so he didn't even see a HUGE issue besides "wife be throwing me out of the house and it's cold outside" until he ended up living in his car for three months and me not contacting him or being in any rush to return his calls. Then "ERMAGHERD! why don't you answer your phone? What's with that? What do you mean my name isn't on the lease and I can't insure my car with you? Why are you being such a bitch about this? Jeez." And of course we reconciled later for it to turn into "why can't you get over my cheating/addictions/abandonment of responsibility? It was in the past already! Stop bringing it up." So then the boot went up the ass. I asked for a separate life until we got finished our school. He had NO IDEA. then he started reading about conflict/Relational dynamics etc. It's been nice to see him (slowly) learn that shutting me down like I'm the radio doesn't make the volume lower next time. Unless he wants to mute it altogether. Empathy has started crawling out from somewhere in there. Baby steps etc. But after years of it all, I find that my heart often isn't in it. He's been such a dick. For so long. Two years and this guy has this many intimacy issues flying ALREADY: RUN HONEY RUN. Odds are he isn't being faithful either. Or he won't be soon enough. If it's one thing I've learned in my life it's that the male sex drive rarely has an OFF switch and he already has a history of cheating AND being very DEFENSIVE and UNEMPATHETIC about it. The only thing this guy will be pissed about is getting caught. Don't look back. Get out get out before you have kids and get all torn up about it. 7
Author Koekie Posted March 6, 2013 Author Posted March 6, 2013 Thats the wierd thing. I am most probably the closest anyone has ever been to him and thats not very close at all. When we are apart when hes working, hes the one that phones, says I love you etc. Without fail. He will be with me all the time he is off and he drives 400km to do so even when he is ill. But when standing right in front of me he shuts me out completely and he just doesnt get it. Any sort of deeper emotional talk and the man looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights. He had an abusive childhood and I get all the implications that comes with that. But now in adulthood he has the power to change that. He didnt. Im the closest he has ever come to real love but he keeps me at a distance and I need deeper than that. I did try to tell him, and all he heard was me critisizing him and not seeing what he does try to do. He never heard me. 1
dreamingoftigers Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 Not to save your marriage now. (seems the goose is pretty cooked) But one book that helped me understand some of the gender differences/motivations behind shutting down with these dudes was actually: How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It I think it should be retitled: Basic Understanding of Gender Differences and Intimacy I've read a TON of literature from published journals, to articles to self-help. That one is one of my faves for laypeople regarding relational dynamics. Gottman's good too, but I like the gender lines this one offers up. Unfortunately abusive childhoods really move the goalposts for people, including changing their sensory experiences. Unfortunate. Maybe this will be the catalyst that moves him to a less-selfish path someday. Best of luck. A mind-screw like this is a lot to heal from. 1
BetheButterfly Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) Well, I just told him yesterday I want a divorce. I just couldnt pretend anymore. He's devestated, says he didn't have a clue I was so unhappy. I dont get this because honestly how many times can a person tell you something and you still dont hear it. I think the thing with him is he cannot do emotional intimacy. At all. But he had two years to sort it out and he didnt. My problem is I'm a sucker for hope. Hope is merely a tool. It depends on what you put your hope in for hope to transform itself into surety. You can hope for an untrustworthy person to change, but unless that person puts actions to his/her words faithfully (as in years), it's better to not hope that. Be strong and stick to divorce. I personally think he's taking advantage of you and just using you. Don't give in to his pleas that would just mean another ride on this unhappy ferris wheel. Edited March 6, 2013 by BetheButterfly 1
NervisPervis Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 He had "no idea you were so unhappy" because dopes like this DON'T LISTEN and only learn THE HARD WAY. Nearly 100% of walk-aways (and she is a TEXTBOOK walk-away, to whoever doubted it) claim they told thier husbands until they were "blue in the face". And nearly 100% of husbands were blindsided by it. There is more to it than 1/2 of the population being "dopes". 1
NervisPervis Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) I tried to leave him a few times at which point he would go beserk, it was horrible to see, he was crying begging and promising things would change. It did for a while, then wed be right back at square 1. There's your key right there. And I want to thank you for starting a conversation on this. It is an epidemic. I was one of those dopes. And until you have EVER experienced what I did, realizing that the love of your life hadn't loved you for YEARS... Yes, you told us what our problems were. But we had no IDEA you didn't love us any more. Trust me. If you stick with the divorce this time, your husband will pay for his sins. More than you can ever imagine. Edited March 6, 2013 by NervisPervis
Author Koekie Posted March 7, 2013 Author Posted March 7, 2013 There's your key right there. And I want to thank you for starting a conversation on this. It is an epidemic. I was one of those dopes. And until you have EVER experienced what I did, realizing that the love of your life hadn't loved you for YEARS... Yes, you told us what our problems were. But we had no IDEA you didn't love us any more. Trust me. If you stick with the divorce this time, your husband will pay for his sins. More than you can ever imagine. Im still at a point that I do love him a lot, but wont put up with being a second priority anymore. Im sure he and many other men dont mean to make a woman feel like second priority but it happens. I am in no way an overly huggy kissy clingy type of girl, I just want a deeper connection. And I am a person that can very easily and clearly see someone else's point of view. This however at times causes me to endure pain to spare them pain. I think the elusive thing most of us runaway wives am trying to tell our husbands is that we need a deeper emotional connection. I think to most women these deeper connection relationships are the centres of our universes. Without it we will always be miserable. I dont however have a clue how to explain that to someone who has never had such a connection with a person. Which is fine, nobody knows everything, be everyone has the power to learn and better themselves. My husband is a very attractive man and there have been scores of women and it all ended in the same way (Im friends with some of his exes) I feel sympathy and understanding up to a point. But as a grown up I myself had demons to face and I did. I worked and worked until I grew enough to leave all my baggage behind. If he refuses to do the same, there is nothing I can do. PLEASE REMEMBER. TO A WOMAN OUR RELATIONSHIPS ARE EVERYTHING. IF THAT DEEP CONNECTION IS MISSING IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MUCH WE LOVE YOU, WE GIVE UP AND MOVE ON.
Author Koekie Posted March 7, 2013 Author Posted March 7, 2013 Not to save your marriage now. (seems the goose is pretty cooked) But one book that helped me understand some of the gender differences/motivations behind shutting down with these dudes was actually: How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It I think it should be retitled: Basic Understanding of Gender Differences and Intimacy I've read a TON of literature from published journals, to articles to self-help. That one is one of my faves for laypeople regarding relational dynamics. Gottman's good too, but I like the gender lines this one offers up. Unfortunately abusive childhoods really move the goalposts for people, including changing their sensory experiences. Unfortunate. Maybe this will be the catalyst that moves him to a less-selfish path someday. Best of luck. A mind-screw like this is a lot to heal from. I will look up those! I like reading self help books and in my isolated location its the way to go. I like growing in everything and learning new things. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus also helped me to see things from a male point of view tremendously. And thats the thing. I read all the books I got for us to try and save this marriage. He would pretend interest and just never read it. When asked what he thinks of the book he would get annoyed and say how busy he had been. Going to barbeques, watching tv, playing golf, playing with his new motocross toys. How do you grow in marriage when your partner refuses to grow. That just stumps your own personal growth and holds you down.
Darren Steez Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Well, I just told him yesterday I want a divorce. I just couldnt pretend anymore. He's devestated, says he didn't have a clue I was so unhappy. I dont get this because honestly how many times can a person tell you something and you still dont hear it. I think the thing with him is he cannot do emotional intimacy. At all. But he had two years to sort it out and he didnt. My problem is I'm a sucker for hope. I think he can, especially when the stuff hits the fans and he's begging you to stay. It's a question of choices. He chooses to go and play golf, that's fine, some time to self is always ok, but not every weekend. If you've talked to him ad finitum and he's still not rectifying his ways, he's a big enough boy to understand his actions/inaction have consequences.
Author Koekie Posted March 7, 2013 Author Posted March 7, 2013 I think he can, especially when the stuff hits the fans and he's begging you to stay. It's a question of choices. He chooses to go and play golf, that's fine, some time to self is always ok, but not every weekend. If you've talked to him ad finitum and he's still not rectifying his ways, he's a big enough boy to understand his actions/inaction have consequences. Summed up nicely, and thats exactly it. I think with the walk away wife, eventually these types of men do see the light. But the marriage is then ruined. You can break pieces off a vase and stick them back again, but the cracks still show and in the end the vase is so damn ugly nobody want it anymore.
NervisPervis Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Parts of marriages are good. Parts of marriages are bad. Some bad parts can be fixed. Some bad parts can't. Some you can work on, some you can't. That's compromise. The reason we men are blindsided by "I don't love you any more" is because you gals don't tell us it's happening. We don't see it coming. I HEAR you that you are not happy with us. Sorry. It's some of the bad. Want to hear about some of the bad WE put up with? We'll tell you if you want. We'll talk. We'll compromise. But if one of your issues is a deal breaker, make sure we know before you check out. That's all I'm asking. Then you say "but I told him until I was blue in the face"... ...and the cycle continues.
Author Koekie Posted March 8, 2013 Author Posted March 8, 2013 Parts of marriages are good. Parts of marriages are bad. Some bad parts can be fixed. Some bad parts can't. Some you can work on, some you can't. That's compromise. The reason we men are blindsided by "I don't love you any more" is because you gals don't tell us it's happening. We don't see it coming. I HEAR you that you are not happy with us. Sorry. It's some of the bad. Want to hear about some of the bad WE put up with? We'll tell you if you want. We'll talk. We'll compromise. But if one of your issues is a deal breaker, make sure we know before you check out. That's all I'm asking. Then you say "but I told him until I was blue in the face"... ...and the cycle continues. In my situation and that of some women I know, if you do try to bring it up nicely, you will get nowhere. You will get anger and a huge fight. If, in the end, you are forced to give an ultimatum (because God alone knows why just a normal, nice chat doesnt get through) most men will do exactly the opposite to prove they are THE man and that no woman will boss them around. That is the problem. So in that case. THE man can be THE man alone. Check the sympathy in my eye. 2
phillygirl Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 I am a soon to be walk away wife, after two years of marriage. [sic] Here the short of the long of it. IF YOU REJECT YOUR SPOUSE OVER AND OVER AGAIN they will at some point leave. My husband thinks everything is hunky dory. He has the energy to play 18 holes of golf, but not to make love to me. He has the time to drink his brandy, but not the time to hug me. I only see him on weekends since he has since started working in another town, and I usually get a warm affectionate closed mouth kiss goodbye at the end of the weekend. I have since the last session, kept giving him affection, never ever asked for anything from him and kept smiling in the face of countless rejections. These range from anything from I am too hot for cuddles (but hell turn around and cuddle the dog or cat or walks miles in the burning sun for golf) to Im tired (no problem for golf though) to I am always nagging (havent mentioned his lack of affection or anything for that matter for months) etc. etc. etc. [sic] *(((hugs))) I get it. Keep us posted. 1
Author Koekie Posted March 9, 2013 Author Posted March 9, 2013 *(((hugs))) I get it. Keep us posted. Well I cant divorce him yet according to the lawyer, I have to wait for December when we will have been living seperately for 2 years Anyways I told him this and he said to give him a chance that he will change. I said it can only do him good, but for now we are just friends. If I see he went to a counsellor and that there is a permanent change I might consider dating him again. If whilst dating (NO SEX) we connect emotionally and I see the change in him, Ill consider not filing for divorce. But he has until December. Anyways, meanwhile Im focusing on me and doing the things that makes me happy. Im not going to get involved in any aspect of his problems. This is about complete and utter emotionaly unavailibility. So Im avoiding it. 1
NervisPervis Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 In my situation and that of some women I know, if you do try to bring it up nicely, you will get nowhere. You will get anger and a huge fight. If, in the end, you are forced to give an ultimatum (because God alone knows why just a normal, nice chat doesnt get through) most men will do exactly the opposite to prove they are THE man and that no woman will boss them around. That is the problem. So in that case. THE man can be THE man alone. Check the sympathy in my eye. I say it's you. You say it's me. And the cycle continues.
NervisPervis Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Sorry. I should have read further before posting. Didn't realize this was a "YOU GO GIRL" thread. I thought we were going to try to fix a problem. Sorry. I'll bail from your estrogen fix.
dreamingoftigers Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Sorry. I should have read further before posting. Didn't realize this was a "YOU GO GIRL" thread. I thought we were going to try to fix a problem. Sorry. I'll bail from your estrogen fix. Same attitude that probably caused your divorce. She comes here saying, "husbands, take note, these issues cause divorces, I am divorcing mine, had enough pain here, tried all that I could with no changes." Your response? You shame her and try to shut it down. Husbands: take note. 3
Grumpybutfun Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Koekie- Good warning thread for men and women to beware of emotionally shutting down their spouses. I, too came from a very chaotic childhood, but as soon as it started affecting my marriage, I sought professional, spiritual and holistic help and did everything in my power to make sure my spouse felt safe and loved. Read as much as you can to empower and inform you, but also try to talk to a professional or elder as this can be very hard on your spirit. Two years seems hardcore to wait for a divorce. Sorry this happened to you. You seem like a nice person and you deserve affection and accountability and fidelity. Grumps 2
NervisPervis Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 No, this thread is a little too hostile to men to make a difference. I like to put my advice to work where it may help. You gals just continue blaming men for the issue. I'm sure that will get it all settled before your daughter marry's one of us. Because you can't pick us out. We change as soon as we say "I do", remember. Good luck.
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