stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I have a question for everyone who has any thoughts on this matter… Say you’re friends with someone who later becomes your affair partner…for those who think MM or MW are automatically dishonest to their AP because they’re dishonest to their spouses…I just want to mention a hypothetical scenario. I’ve been talking with a member here in private messages about our issues trying to get over our affairs which ended at pretty much the same time late last year. I really enjoy talking to her but there’s absolutely NOTHING there in terms of ever having an affair with HER. This is where the hypothetical part of my question starts. We’ve discussed stuff, feelings, thoughts, some details of our real lives…we have certain kind of funny things in common, we live close together and blah, blah. I believe both of us have been entirely honest and open about all of this stuff. Why not be? We’re friends, right? SO. If we ended up getting together in an affair (and again, PURELY hypothetical. We’re both still hung up on our exes and there’s just no interest in having any more affairs), why would we then suddenly be assumed to be dishonest to each other? Yes, we have both in the past been dishonest to our partners (and continue to be so as neither of them know about our affairs, and as long as we continue to come on here, we’re keeping that from them too), but why does that also require us to be dishonest to each other? And if we had no reason to be dishonest or tell lies to each other as friends, why would we start lying once we got together? Why would that change? AND I had another thought…if someone has been lying and hiding things from their partner, would it be possible that they might go the complete OPPOSITE to their affair partner? Because they hate the fact they’re lying and deceiving someone they love, so they wouldn’t want to do that again with someone ELSE they love? It may be that they even have a great need to BE completely honest to someone because they cannot do that with their partner? I’m just interested in some thoughts…
MissBee Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) I have a question for everyone who has any thoughts on this matter… Say you’re friends with someone who later becomes your affair partner…for those who think MM or MW are automatically dishonest to their AP because they’re dishonest to their spouses…I just want to mention a hypothetical scenario. I’ve been talking with a member here in private messages about our issues trying to get over our affairs which ended at pretty much the same time late last year. I really enjoy talking to her but there’s absolutely NOTHING there in terms of ever having an affair with HER. This is where the hypothetical part of my question starts. We’ve discussed stuff, feelings, thoughts, some details of our real lives…we have certain kind of funny things in common, we live close together and blah, blah. I believe both of us have been entirely honest and open about all of this stuff. Why not be? We’re friends, right? SO. If we ended up getting together in an affair (and again, PURELY hypothetical. We’re both still hung up on our exes and there’s just no interest in having any more affairs), why would we then suddenly be assumed to be dishonest to each other? Yes, we have both in the past been dishonest to our partners (and continue to be so as neither of them know about our affairs, and as long as we continue to come on here, we’re keeping that from them too), but why does that also require us to be dishonest to each other? And if we had no reason to be dishonest or tell lies to each other as friends, why would we start lying once we got together? Why would that change? AND I had another thought…if someone has been lying and hiding things from their partner, would it be possible that they might go the complete OPPOSITE to their affair partner? Because they hate the fact they’re lying and deceiving someone they love, so they wouldn’t want to do that again with someone ELSE they love? It may be that they even have a great need to BE completely honest to someone because they cannot do that with their partner? I’m just interested in some thoughts… No one lies about everything all the time. A MP doesn't start lying to their spouse about every single thing. They may only need to lie about things required to keep their affair secret/separate. They don't just start lying about the price of rice and other things lol. Likewise, a MM, unless a pathological liar, will probably only lie to the AP about things pertaining to keeping the affair going and keeping their A relationship separate from their M. But won't just be lying from morning until night. Also, many "lies" come in the form of simply omitting to mention and/or downplaying or exaggerating. This is how lying works for most people, even those not in As. If you don't want your friend/family/partner to be upset, you don't want to be questioned about something you don't want to talk about, don't want to be judged, aren't ready yet to talk about xyz, are ashamed about something, shouldn't have done something, people will simply fail to mention it or lie about it. So for me, dishonesty isn't this 100% state of being. It is done for a purpose. It is not hard to see how and why one could come up on reasons to be dishonest to one's AP, especially if you're the married one. Different A scenarios are different and some may require more lying/exaggerating/omission than others. For an OW for example, who says she just wants a fling, sex, doesn't want him to leave perhaps a MM in that case has no reason to lie. But for an OW who may be inlove, wants more, etc. he may have more reason to keep the A going on by either lying about leaving or exaggerating about the state of the M etc. It depends on the people and the ends why and when and what kind of lies/omissions/exaggerations become useful. As for if you had no reason to lie as friends why start lying as APs....that's pretty obvious...because now you're in an affair and the stakes are different and that changes things. That's the truth. Most people have an easier time being truthful to friends as there is less pressure in a friendship than a romantic relationship. Add romance, then comes jealousy, possessiveness, expectations and pressures that are non-existent in friendships. That's when things get dicey and when reasons to lie sometimes arise, because of those other emotions. As a friend, I don't care if you just had sex with your wife or 5 other women, as your gf/AP/someone inlove with you, I DO. So whereas when I was a friend you felt free to tell me those things, if you were still doing it while we were in a romantic arrangement, it is common sense on your part to probably not mention it to avoid drama or jealousy. Lies are for a purpose and are dependent on situation. I am sure some MM do not lie about their marriage or future plans or feelings and I'm sure some do. I'm sure some are 100% transparent and some aren't. Some are honest in the A but compartmentalize it so that the AP is void of any knowledge of their M/family life. I will say, it seems difficult for most people to maintain the balance of a secret A without two-sided lying. That seems the most common and not this tipping of the scale where the BS gets ALL lies and the OW ALL truths. Usually it seems like a logical gray area of untruths to both women and I'm sure a lot of these untruths are not premeditated but were attempts at being pragmatic. I'm wary of the notion that because a MM is lying to his wife he feels the need to be completely honest with someone, so by default it is the OW. I mean, can this be true? Sure. But often it seems like some wishful story OW tell themselves, which plays into the idea of this special A love and A bond, in which MM can be his "true self" with his "true love" the OW. I'm just suspicious of it. Sure it could happen...but as I said, since MM aren't just lying about every single thing all the time, maybe they do not feel a great "burden" to confess their true self with anyone. My AP I am certain didn't feel like he was burdened by pretenses to where he needed respite in me to be his true self. That seems like a horribly tragic tale of some poor soul burdened by his demons and he needs me to be his sounding board. But many OW seem to like that martyr, poor-thing, type of story re the MM. My AP compartmentalized to an extent that he felt fine and his relationship with her and with me were simply different relationships to him and he felt he was his "true self" to us both and the omissions and lies were a matter of logistics and didn't weigh on him as a great emotional burden. Edited March 5, 2013 by MissBee 2
LFH Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) I agree 100%. You wouldn't suddenly start being dishonest. Some people HAVE to make themselves believe that affair partners can never be honest with one another. I don't know why. This is OFTEN exactly how affairs start, as a friendship. I think that's why some of the relationships do see people sharing things that they may not have otherwise. I don't see the reason as the MM necessarily needing someone to be totally honest with, although that's probably true sometimes too. Edited March 5, 2013 by LFH
Author stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Ahh, I see your point regarding nobody ever lying ALL the time and most lies being situational or purpose-based. I guess I’m wondering, if the MM or MW sees no REASON to lie to their AP…could the affair be completely open and honest? If as friends, they discussed their marriages openly and then when they got together, they just kept on doing so? If once you get into an affair with a friend, stuff like jealousy, possessiveness simply aren’t in the equation, again, there may be no need to lie or omit truths… Expectations and pressure though, these ALWAYS exist in relationships, so I agree the need to lie may be felt more because of those, yeah. I also agree that most lies are kind of to balance the 2 situations (A and M) and to be pragmatic. Also, for the record, my question about whether a MM who lies to his wife in order to have the A may feel a strong urge to be totally honest with his OW, that wasn’t me personally utilising wishful thinking. I think some of this existed for both my ex-MM and myself, but I don’t really think it’s true most of the time, and mostly not true for us either. It was just a question I had, viewing things from that perspective. I think I was more concerned with the fact the MM has lost whatever emotional intimacy or closeness he shared with his wife (for whatever reason. Usually not wife-dependent) and doesn’t like that and doesn’t like living with that barrier between them (the affair / lies in order to maintain the affair) so DOES feel a bit of a burden all the time and also feels a greater need to have emotional intimacy with someone (the OW) as they don’t have that with their wife anymore, and I assume it’s incredibly naïve or me to think that at least some of the time, people who truly want emotional intimacy with someone will kind of feel they have to be honest most of the time in order to get that emotional intimacy. Lol. In terms of my ex-MM, he couldn’t be himself at home. That was his own doing and his own choice to continue living in that way. He said it wasn’t so hard most of the time as he was used to it, but he COULD be his true self with me and it was a relief (I’m also sure I’ve read this sort of thing a few times around here, so it seems to be a fairly common thing for MM to tell their OWs, and it’s probably true to an extent also). Thanks so much for replying, MissBee! Your posts on here are always so articulate and wise.
LFH Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Ahh, I see your point regarding nobody ever lying ALL the time and most lies being situational or purpose-based. I guess I’m wondering, if the MM or MW sees no REASON to lie to their AP…could the affair be completely open and honest? If as friends, they discussed their marriages openly and then when they got together, they just kept on doing so? If once you get into an affair with a friend, stuff like jealousy, possessiveness simply aren’t in the equation, again, there may be no need to lie or omit truths… Expectations and pressure though, these ALWAYS exist in relationships, so I agree the need to lie may be felt more because of those, yeah. . The first section that I bolded is what I have. We just never had a need to tell one another lies. The second part I bolded is the reason why we are happy with one another. The expectations are well known and fully attainable. The pressure is non-existent. We just are happy and thankful that we are in one another's life.
Author stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 I agree 100%. You wouldn't suddenly start being dishonest. Some people HAVE to make themselves believe that affair partners can never be honest with one another. I don't know why. This is OFTEN exactly how affairs start, as a friendship. I think that's why some of the relationships do see people sharing things that they may not have otherwise. I don't see the reason as the MM necessarily needing someone to be totally honest with, although that's probably true sometimes too. Oh good. I'm glad my post wasn't completely incomprehensible! lol I was just thinking that I seemed to be considered delusional or just plain stupid around here because I believed my ex-MM wasn't automatically dishonest with me when we were together, and how the majority of information we shared with each other was shared BEFORE we even got together properly. It was kind of like a friendship "honeymoon phase" sharing explosion sort of thing. lol. And then I realised this friend who I'm sending private msgs to on here, we've blabbed about a lot of stuff and I suddenly realised hey...WE'RE not lying to each other about anything, so why would my ex-MM and I have been dishonest?? And why once you get together, beyond that initial friendship period, must the lies start? They don't ALWAYS start, I guess. Which is nice to know. But yeah, I DO get the thing about more pressure and expectations once you're actually in a relationship, and that pressure and perhaps differing expectations between you can lead to some lies. But I don't think those types of lies were the ones I assumed everyone around here meant when they said all MMs lie and are dishonest. Thanks LFH!!!!
Author stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 The first section that I bolded is what I have. We just never had a need to tell one another lies. The second part I bolded is the reason why we are happy with one another. The expectations are well known and fully attainable. The pressure is non-existent. We just are happy and thankful that we are in one another's life. Goodo. I can see how an affair can attain this balance and continue on happily. Obviously it's very RARE but...nonetheless. Obviously it does exist. As long as expectations are known and both want to fulfil those and they are attainable, this greatly reduces the urges for dishonesty to try to be happy in that relationship.
LFH Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I faced that too (being beat over the head with people convinced there is no way he's being honest with me), yet I know very well that my MM doesn't lie to me and that he certainly COULD but that he doesn't. I certainly know him better than others. There are an awful lot though that do nothing BUT lie, and it makes sense to try and encourage people to be on their guard, some truly don't see when they are being played. I try very hard to take each relationship as it is presented here, and if someone has reason to think that their AP isn't lying, then I believe that they probably have a better idea of that than I do.
Author stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 I get that. That's a good, balanced perspective to have. In my own case, I truly do NOT believe my ex-MM lied to me. Not in terms of the simple, basic day to day stuff (because why would he? It was also so detailed - we both went into a lot of detail about our days - and he filmed much of his activities as well), and not in terms of his feelings for his wife. We discussed it all in SO much detail over SO long and SO many times. Anything he DID lie about, I honestly (no pun intended, lol) don't mind because it either wasn't important or I could understand why he felt the need to. In my ex-MM's case, I actually believe any lies he did tell were to himself, and that he truly believed what he said to me at the time.
whichwayisup Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 SO. If we ended up getting together in an affair (and again, PURELY hypothetical. We’re both still hung up on our exes and there’s just no interest in having any more affairs), why would we then suddenly be assumed to be dishonest to each other? Omitting truths as to go out of your way not to hurt feelings? When in fact omitting can do as much damage as the lies. Not that you two would lead each other on, but as time goes on, feelings can develop, become very emotionally attached and then jealously issues..Especially if one or both of you are still involved with the (ex) spouses, that 'ownership' feeling can just happen as attachments get stronger. Depends on the people and how well they handle intense feelings. If you two are single and available, just means that one or both of you ARE capable of telling lies - Since in the past lying and cheating was part of your senario's, it all depends on how one changes themselves, creates strong boundries and never allows themselves to cross lines with others when in a R or hang out with someone in A R. Hope this makes sense. It did in my head!
Pierre Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 SO. If we ended up getting together in an affair (and again, PURELY hypothetical. We’re both still hung up on our exes and there’s just no interest in having any more affairs), why would we then suddenly be assumed to be dishonest to each other? Most romantic affairs start just as you described. Some are at the hands of true philanderers that know what to say and how to pick the prey. But, most start as you have described. There is no lying when the affair partners are not typical philanderers. And if we had no reason to be dishonest or tell lies to each other as friends, why would we start lying once we got together? Why would that change? The moment you cross the affair line you change your tune. I had many EAs in the past. The moment things go to the EA route the conversation changes. There are some topics that are like a cold shower and you don't wat to go there. For example I would not discuss my sex life if I was in an EA. If anything I would say is non existent or boring. I would not describe how much fun we had at a local bar on the weekend. Slowly, but surely I woud put emphasis on the negatives of my wife because that would get me brownie points. The lady in question would probably do the same and before you know it we would be in agreement in that our relationships are not that good. In fact, I know for a fact you have already said to your friend that your relationship is stale. That is the No. 1 statement that says: "I am available". Because they hate the fact they’re lying and deceiving someone they love, so they wouldn’t want to do that again with someone ELSE they love? It may be that they even have a great need to BE completely honest to someone because they cannot do that with their partner? I’m just interested in some thoughts… Ha, ha:laugh::laugh: That is the oldest line in the cheaters book. "I can talk to you about anything, OTOH, my wife will not listen to me." Don't you get it? Once you have intimate conversations with a friend you cannot reveal the content of those conversations with your partner. At that point you immediately start to build a wall and become distant from your partner.
Author stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Yes, I do get that, Pierre. Very, very true. Oh, and I did want to, again, make it TOTALLY clear that this friendship with the other member here is NOT ever going to be anything BUT a friendship. The "spark" is not there. lol. Just to emphasise that again. She will probably be reading this and I don't want any weirdness or questions. We have BOTH said our relationships are "stale" for want of a better word. This has been part of why we both got into affairs in the first place, and as we've discussed that in detail, we do of course touch on the "staleness" of our relationships too. I really appreciate you saying unless the MM is an actual philanderer, there is not necessarily lying in an A. That's good. I don't think either me or my ex-MM PURPOSEFULLY began to compare or be negative about our respective lives and partners, and though it DID happen at times, it was NOT a regular occurrence. He was actually careful NOT to be negative about her, and me with my partner also. He was VERY negative about his life there and mainly her 3 kids living with them, but not actually about HER. He said she wasn't the problem (except he just didn't want to be with her anymore).
Pierre Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Yes, I do get that, Pierre. Very, very true. Oh, and I did want to, again, make it TOTALLY clear that this friendship with the other member here is NOT ever going to be anything BUT a friendship. The "spark" is not there. lol. Just to emphasise that again. She will probably be reading this and I don't want any weirdness or questions. We have BOTH said our relationships are "stale" for want of a better word. This has been part of why we both got into affairs in the first place, and as we've discussed that in detail, we do of course touch on the "staleness" of our relationships too. I really appreciate you saying unless the MM is an actual philanderer, there is not necessarily lying in an A. That's good. I don't think either me or my ex-MM PURPOSEFULLY began to compare or be negative about our respective lives and partners, and though it DID happen at times, it was NOT a regular occurrence. He was actually careful NOT to be negative about her, and me with my partner also. He was VERY negative about his life there and mainly her 3 kids living with them, but not actually about HER. He said she wasn't the problem (except he just didn't want to be with her anymore). Stevie: I still love your honest down to earth approach. It is not easy to have an affair when the participants know all the technical details of the interaction. It takes all the fun away. That is why innocence is so much fun. And yes, i see a lot if innocence in many OWs.
Author stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Well, I think I was aware of many of the technical details, Pierre, my dear. You have been calling me "pretty" and now you "love" my down to earth approach and put a lovestruck emoticon there. Are you in love with me, sir? lol
Pierre Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Well, I think I was aware of many of the technical details, Pierre, my dear. You have been calling me "pretty" and now you "love" my down to earth approach and put a lovestruck emoticon there. Are you in love with me, sir? lol :laugh::love: I am a sucker for innocence and demure. :cool: Nothing wrong with that. 1
Author stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Oh my goodness me! lol I am all a'flutter. Pierre, will you run away with me and we can truly be together, and not just in an online love affair anymore? lol
jwi71 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 SO. If we ended up getting together in an affair (and again, PURELY hypothetical. We’re both still hung up on our exes and there’s just no interest in having any more affairs), why would we then suddenly be assumed to be dishonest to each other? But why would one assume they are being totally honest either? If we accept that all people lie - then of COURSE you are being lied to. Ultimately though, I think the most common lie a WS tells the AP is about how bad it really is. There are not many women who engage in long term A's where the WS says: "I'm more or less happy at home, I'm not leaving, I like you, but not in love with you, so lets have sex when I can sneak away. Deal?" Yes...I simplified it for effect but its basically true. Yes, we have both in the past been dishonest to our partners (and continue to be so as neither of them know about our affairs, and as long as we continue to come on here, we’re keeping that from them too), but why does that also require us to be dishonest to each other? It doesn't. But (you knew it was coming right?) - I tend to not trust the car salesman when I KNOW he/she benefits by lying and "loses" by being fully honest. And if we had no reason to be dishonest or tell lies to each other as friends, why would we start lying once we got together? Why would that change? The same reason they began cheating and lying on their BS. They started lying to him/her - and it went undetected. No? AND I had another thought…if someone has been lying and hiding things from their partner, would it be possible that they might go the complete OPPOSITE to their affair partner? Its possible. But not likely imo. Because they hate the fact they’re lying and deceiving someone they love, so they wouldn’t want to do that again with someone ELSE they love? They can't hate it TOO much right - seeing as the lies continue. This is more about being special than anything else...they lie/dishonest to BS but not to me - because I'm/we are special - so special we don;t lie or are dishonest. Prolly not. It may be that they even have a great need to BE completely honest to someone because they cannot do that with their partner? Cannot or choose not? I get what you are saying, I can follow it, but I'm not sure that the dishonesty to the BS is counterbalanced by honesty to the AP. In fact, I would argue, and have, that the WS has shown that lying is an acceptable solution to a relationship problem - why would the WS suddenly switch from dishonesty to honesty? (because you are special) See where 'Im going here...
Author stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 I don’t think anyone necessarily LOSES by being honest in an affair. Also, in my own case, my ex-MM was NOT happy at home but it wasn’t because of his wife. He didn’t want to be with her anymore but it was his living situation with her 3 adult kids that he didn’t like most of all. But yeah, either way, he wasn’t HAPPY. So compared to that, our affair seemed BETTER. But he didn’t lie about being happy or unhappy in his living situation. He didn’t need to. I said a few times I was worried about the fact he was unhappy living there, because it meant that if that changed and he BECAME happier, would he have no need for me anymore? In a way, it’s BETTER in my mind if the MM is not TOO unhappy because then he’s not choosing to be with you so as to fill a hole or for a fantasy or distraction, but because he wants you MORE than his already fairly happy-ish situation. Just because someone continues to lie doesn’t mean they DON’T hate how it feels to do so on an ongoing basis. In my case, I HATED how it felt, but the happiness / reward I got from being with my ex-MM offset that. They were two separate entities in a way. The horrible feelings that came from lying and the happiness that came from being with him. I get your point about the OW feeling that she and they are “special” so the MM wouldn’t lie to THEM even though he lies to everyone else, but that wasn’t my point of the initial post. It was a tangent point, but the main point was how come people assume MM (or MW) lie to their OW if the affair began out of a friendship that did not contain lies?
jwi71 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I don’t think anyone necessarily LOSES by being honest in an affair. Well, yeah loses was not the best word. But would YOU enter an A if a MM had said such to you? Also, in my own case, my ex-MM was NOT happy at home but it wasn’t because of his wife. He didn’t want to be with her anymore but it was his living situation with her 3 adult kids that he didn’t like most of all. But yeah, either way, he wasn’t HAPPY. So compared to that, our affair seemed BETTER. But he didn’t lie about being happy or unhappy in his living situation. He didn’t need to. Has your xMM moved out and filed for D? I said a few times I was worried about the fact he was unhappy living there, because it meant that if that changed and he BECAME happier, would he have no need for me anymore?In a way, it’s BETTER in my mind if the MM is not TOO unhappy because then he’s not choosing to be with you so as to fill a hole or for a fantasy or distraction, but because he wants you MORE than his already fairly happy-ish situation. So you benefited by NOT being the best possible friend to him. Instead of offering what is best for HIM (move out, leave, be fully happy), you "tone it down" to suit yourself (not TOO unhappy - in other words, I want you to be unhappy to a degree) so I can still continuing the A for ME. How is that honest? You wanted to know how AP's lie to one other - you give a FANTASTIC example of such right there. Just because someone continues to lie doesn’t mean they DON’T hate how it feels to do so on an ongoing basis. But not enough to stop. How can one "hate" it if they have FULL power to control it - and choose not to? In my case, I HATED how it felt, but the happiness / reward I got from being with my ex-MM offset that. Like I said...you didn't hate that much if you didn't stop. I find it hard to believe how one says "I just HATE this" - and keep doing it. The first thing that comes to mins - you have FULL control to stop lying - yet don't. How is that hating it? It was a tangent point, but the main point was how come people assume MM (or MW) lie to their OW if the affair began out of a friendship that did not contain lies? You gave a PERFECT example of such. Instead of being the best possible friend - one "holds back" to keep the A going at the other's detriment - but your gain. Like I said...I tend not to trust one who gains by lying and loses by being honest. Does that make more sense now?
Author stevie_23 Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 I don't understand what you mean about me not being the best possible friend to him by "holding back". I DID help him work through his feelings about what he could do to leave his unhappy situation. We talked about it endlessly. I told him if he was unhappy, to leave there. That if he couldn't be happy, to leave. Obviously this would benefit me if he left because he'd have more time for me. And it'd benefit him in terms of his happiness (though not in terms of his financial position or domestic stability). This is why he didn't leave, as his situation changed over the course of our A, and no, he has not filed for D. He only just got married 6 months ago. They weren't married for the majority of our A. I get your point about lying. That is exactly right. I have no defense for that. The "hatred" for the lying I was doing was overcome by the positive stuff I got from being with him. (though for me, I never actually LIED DIRECTLY. I just didn't say "I'm having an affair". To me the feelings of guilt were the same though)
LFH Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I don’t think anyone necessarily LOSES by being honest in an affair. I don't understand the thinking behind this? Why would someone LOSE by being honest in an affair?
Got it Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I can only speak from my experience. I did not tell my ex about the affair, I lied to him about details of my time, etc. I have not and did not lie to dMM in the affair or afterwards outside of the white lie about when I may have actually left the office. 20 minutes ago or right now. (I am a workaholic, sorry!) We had a different set up, different expectations, and different needs. I did not need to like to dMM, that was the beauty of the beginning of the relationship, he was only going to be a fling so I could be brutally honest. It didn't matter. And then because we were in an affair, with it ripe for concerns and issues, being brutally honest because a litmus test. So no, I did not like being in a relationship where I lied so I have not continued that or developed other ones where I felt I needed/wanted to.
jwi71 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I don't understand what you mean about me not being the best possible friend to him by "holding back". If what is best for him is to leave the M and potentially the A - and you do NOT suggest such to keep the A going for YOUR benefit - how are you being honest to him? I get your point about lying. That is exactly right. I have no defense for that. The "hatred" for the lying I was doing was overcome by the positive stuff I got from being with him. (though for me, I never actually LIED DIRECTLY. I just didn't say "I'm having an affair". To me the feelings of guilt were the same though) Exactly my point. Cant say you hate it when you keep doing it. Generic you here.
jwi71 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 I don't understand the thinking behind this? Why would someone LOSE by being honest in an affair? Clearly Im not be clear. The "loss" in the A by being honest is: "I'm not leaving my M nor can I choose you over such should the situation arise. Also, I want to vent to you about my M and life and all - all the while denying you the same. You will always be on the outside looking in - deal?" If both parties are truly honest - the A falls apart (a loss)
LFH Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Clearly Im not be clear. The "loss" in the A by being honest is: "I'm not leaving my M nor can I choose you over such should the situation arise. Also, I want to vent to you about my M and life and all - all the while denying you the same. You will always be on the outside looking in - deal?" If both parties are truly honest - the A falls apart (a loss) Oh. See, I have the above. Except he doesn't deny me the same. (Of course I don't have a BS to complain about). Ours hasn't fallen apart.
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