Need -dating 9 months-no commitment

[agriffin]

Hi!

 

I'm new to this site and this is my first question. Ok, a little background info. I'm 41, newly divorced. Met a man last june online and we met and hit it off. This is not my first date since the divorce or anything. I've gone out with several-long divorce!! So I follow all the "rules"-not emotional, not needy, I don't text or call, he calls me. Wasn't really doing this as a game per say, I just didn't want to be clingy or have anyone clingy on me. I just got out of a 17 year marriage and not looking for another one! Anyway, this guy and I both made it clear we were not looking to remarry, just wanted to take it slow and see what happens. He texted me many times a day, every day since June. We waited about three months to sleep together. He travels extensively for work, usually gone all week, then sees his kids on weekends, When he is home, maybe one night a week or every other week, we usually get together, have dinner, a movie, hang out or what ever and sometimes I stay over. This actually suits my schedule great because I'm a single mom who works and goes to school part time for my masters degree. So I don't have much free time either. everything has been great. So the past few weeks I've noticed he has withdrawn and become distant. He did call and apologize for that, he has had quite a few family/personal tragedies happening at once, and says he tends to withdraw when he is under stress. I understand that totally and was actually very impressed that he bothered to tell me that. So no problem there. Although I must admit I did miss our texting/calling back and forth daily. Now it's every 2-3 days. So he flies home a couple of weeks later, late flight, and calls to see if I'm coming over or if we should just wait until the next weekend. Flight was delayed and it was kind of late so I was not really into driving over just for one night (he was seeing kids in AM). I asked what his preference was and he said "whatever. I don't care" Little rude but I made a joke out of it like "well, although that offer is truly sweeping me off my feet, I think I'll wait until next weekend" He laughed and that was that.

Ok, too many details. I'll get to the point. Fast forward next weekend. I come over, we go out for a nice dinner, stay over. He is acting a little off but there is no way I'm pushing about it. I've been very careful to avoid any ultimatums and "feelings" talks- don't want to be the needy chick. His friends were coming over to visit him that night so I left fairly early that morning and told him to have fun. It's been 3 days and I haven't heard from him. Other than a drunken text photo at 1 am of him at a strip club. Not a peep. Very unusual. In 9 months he has never gone this long without saying something. Now ok, having a hard time with family and need to withdraw, I understand. But he goes out with his friends (and I'm totally ok with that) several times. Doesn't need to withdraw from them. Seems to be only me. I realize we never had the relationship talk or any commitment decisions but what gives?? He doesn't owe me anything but this seems a little rude. Am I getting played suddenly? And why after 9 months????

[outsidethebox]

what part of drunken pic of him at a strip club at 1am didn't get the message across? That's pretty amazingly rude way of saying F you looks like to me.

 

why? don't know but it goes back to when the daily texts stopped in my opinion.

[coffeebean201]

i agree.

 

He's off on his own now.

 

not sure you'd want him back given how he's handled this.

[agriffin]

No it wasn't quite like that. He sends me pictures of everywhere he goes. Views, people, funny things. I knew he was going to a strip club with his buddies, he does that now and then. It was a picture of him outside of it,not inside with a girl or anything. He wrote something silly on the caption like he usually does.

[xpaperxcutx]

When you guys decided to settle for " seeing where things go", this is where it went. It seems like you're calling foul because his interest has waned while you have grown seemingly attached.

 

I have to say, as much as some people are scared of commitment, dating shouldn't be ' whatever" because you're still putting your time and emotions into someone and you start developing expectations. However because you guys had set no expectations, the way things went is that one party may not feel like he owed you anything since you both mutually agreed to casual.

 

Also his behavior is indicative that he is either preoccupied with someone or something. If you decided to ask him what's going on he's likely to give you an excuse that he's busy but wont elaborate on the cause. He seems to be checking out of the so-called " non commital relationship" the two of you share and his lack of communication is a clear sign. Of course, you can confront him, but be ready to hear some defense counter-arguments.

[agriffin]

Is there anything I can do at this point? I felt like I had the upper hand here but now not so much. Would backing off do any good?

[xpaperxcutx]

No it wasn't quite like that. He sends me pictures of everywhere he goes. Views, people, funny things. I knew he was going to a strip club with his buddies, he does that now and then. It was a picture of him outside of it,not inside with a girl or anything. He wrote something silly on the caption like he usually does.

 

Do you feel angry or upset that he actually went to a strip club?

For some people, having someone they're seeing willingly enjoying their time at strip clubs shows a lack of respect for their partner. Just the fact he has a habit of going to see naked women prance around says something of his character.

[tbf]

It's called the "care less" transactional power game. As a guess, he was hoping you missed him enough to drop everything to be with him. In not jumping, he's now punishing you through passive aggressiveness, by showing how he cares less with distance.

 

Time to opt out since this dynamic rarely plays out with a happy ending since both parties are actively engaged in trumping the other.

 

As a thought, if you're looking for a committed relationship, don't have sex prior to commitment. Women tend to bond with sex, since our bodies produce a monogamous pair-bonding hormone called oxytocin.

[xpaperxcutx]

Is there anything I can do at this point? I felt like I had the upper hand here but now not so much. Would backing off do any good?

 

Dating is not a game. It's not about winning or losing.

 

Ask yourself what you want from this relationship and from any relationship for that matter. Do you want commitment? A giving partner? I'm not saying that you should jump ahead and date for marriage, but whenever you date, these should be factors that you should never overlook. Your mistake was that you had put all the cards on the table and stated early on that commitment wasn't necessary and you reinforced his behavior.

 

There's no winning because from your description of him, he will only give you the minimal of what you expect of him. And he doesn't look to be the type to want to setting down for the long term. I suggest you accept your losses and let this guy go. However if you're adamant about staying with him do expect him to continually act the way he does.

 

My advice for you is that the next time you decide to fully invest in someone and a relationship, have expectations, be firm about your wants and needs and don't settle for less than what you deserve.

[Quest]

... because you guys had set no expectations, the way things went is that one party may not feel like he owed you anything since you both mutually agreed to casual.

 

Also his behavior is indicative that he is either preoccupied with someone or something. If you decided to ask him what's going on he's likely to give you an excuse that he's busy but wont elaborate on the cause. He seems to be checking out of the so-called " non commital relationship" the two of you share and his lack of communication is a clear sign. Of course, you can confront him, but be ready to hear some defense counter-arguments.

 

I agree with xpaperxcutx - it seems like his mind and attention has shifted from you to something, or someone, else. Maybe the main attraction for him has always been that there was no commitment required. He might not be capable of that with anyone, or perhaps just not with you, at least at the present time. Either way, it means he's going to drift away sooner or later - when he gets bored, or when he meets someone he feels more strongly about.

Maybe this is a good time for you to decide if you are really happy dating someone exclusively who won't/can't offer commitment.

[todreaminblue]

rudeness, sending you a picture outside a strip club and lack of contact , when he does contact you he is rude.....doesn't sound good, i dont think sending a picture of a strip club is a good thing at any time ..especially i fh eclassed you as a self respecting woman.....meaning he is showing a lack of respect for you ....i dont consider strip clubs funny considering i know what goes on inside........i would cut this guy loose, you dont need this......you deserve better.....i wish you happiness......deb

[outsidethebox]

In a way I don't understand this "no sex before commitment" thing, in a way I do.

 

Being exclusive with sex is a commitment. I don't know what kind of commitment you guys are talking about that's supposed to happen before they "gasp" have sex.

[xpaperxcutx]

In a way, I don't understand this "no sex before commitment" thing, in a way I do.

 

Being exclusive with sex is a commitment. I don't know what kind of commitment you guys are talking about that's supposed to happenbefore they "gasp" have sex.

 

It's not necessarily gender specific, but it's to protect a woman from getting hurt. We are always told men are after one thing and there have been countless times where a guy sleeps with a woman and then stops seeing her afterwards.

 

It's also a characteristic of men, that they often want what they fought hard to keep. This is especially true, when it comes to them dating a women. From what my guy friends tell me and what I agree with, men actually respect a woman more if the girl holds off on sex until the right time. Their mentality is that a girl who sleeps with them too early on is someone who willingly gives up sex too easily and is promiscuous by default. Hypocritical thinking in my opinion, but it goes to show that if a girl wants a guy to appreciate and respect her, she should in the very least have respect for herself.

 

A woman's body is something that should be value and not been seen as just an object to be used and thrown away. Of course the best way to value one's own body, is not to easily give up to sexual pressures.

 

I'm not arguing for celibacy, but in this day and age where sex is easily given out, I think its important to set boundaries when it comes to when, where, how and with who.

[tbf]

In a way I don't understand this "no sex before commitment" thing, in a way I do.

 

Being exclusive with sex is a commitment. I don't know what kind of commitment you guys are talking about that's supposed to happen before they "gasp" have sex.

Are you aware of the hormonal composition of semen, as well as the natural hormonal response within women, during orgasm?

 

I mentioned one, which is oxytocin that's self-generated by women. This hormone is a feel good hormone that causes women to feel safe, relaxed and all kinds of other goodies.

 

Also, women absorb semen (which differs from sperm) through their vaginal walls which contain:

 

A few of the more notable elements include cortisol (increases affection), estrone (mood elevator), prolactin (a natural antidepressant), oxytocin (mood elevator), thyrotropin-releasing hormone (antidepressant), melatonin (induces sleep), and serotonin (well-known antidepressant neurotransmitter), among many others.

 

biological composition of semen | Marriage Gems

 

While there are definitively psychological impacts that factor into why some women pair bond more than others, there's undoubtedly many biological factors at work. It might also help to explain why some women can remain unaffected by orgasm, perhaps because they always have partners use condoms and also how much oxytocin they naturally produce.

 

Men won't bond as easily since there appears not to be the same hormonal composition in vaginal secretions, although there is internal production of vasopressin in men which acts as a pair-bonder. Some men have a gene variant that either doesn't produce or inhibits (can't remember which) the production of vasopressin.

[bittersweet memories]

Are you aware of the hormonal composition of semen, as well as the natural hormonal response within women, during orgasm?

 

I mentioned one, which is oxytocin that's self-generated by women. This hormone is a feel good hormone that causes women to feel safe, relaxed and all kinds of other goodies.

 

Also, women absorb semen (which differs from sperm) through their vaginal walls which contain.

 

 

biological composition of semen | Marriage Gems

 

While there are definitively psychological impacts that factor into why some women pair bond more than others, there's undoubtedly many biological factors at work. It might also help to explain why some women can remain unaffected by orgasm, perhaps because they always have partners use condoms and also how much oxytocin they naturally produce.

 

Men won't bond as easily since there appears not to be the same hormonal composition in vaginal secretions, although there is internal production of vasopressin in men which acts as a pair-bonder. Some men have a gene variant that either doesn't produce or inhibits (can't remember which) the production of vasopressin.

 

Interesting..... thanks for sharing!

[curlygirl40]

From an outside perspective, this one is pretty simple for me.

 

HE is having exactly the kind of relationship that HE wants to have.

 

If you want more, then you have a problem.

 

Evan Marc Katz (I follow his blog, love it), has a great blog about this.

 

The title of the blog is 'How much time should you give a guy to commit before you quit' This part right here sums up your situation very nicely:

 

So why does a man only call or text you once a week to make plans?

 

Why is a man perfectly content only seeing you once every two weeks?

 

Why is a man not clamoring to reserve his weekends for you, or take you on a short vacation, or meet your friends and family?

 

The answer is simple:

 

He doesn’t want to!

 

If a man texts you once a week…

If he doesn’t make time to see you regularly…

If he expresses no interest in escalating the intensity of the relationship…

That’s EXACTLY the relationship that HE wants!

 

Low-intensity. Low-pressure. Low commitment. Low drama.

 

He wins. You lose.

 

He’s content. You’re not.

 

You don’t win this war by waiting him out and hoping he falls for you after four months or six months or one year of casual sex.

 

 

Your guy has a very busy life. He is most likely just looking for someone to hang out with when he's not busy. If it's not enough for you, or if you're developing some real feelings, it's probably best for you to say goodbye and head on out and find the guy who wants to actually build a relationship with you, if you're ready for that.

 

Best of luck to you!!

[curlygirl40]

Is there anything I can do at this point? I felt like I had the upper hand here but now not so much. Would backing off do any good?

 

I think the only thing you can do right now is tell him that this arrangement you have is not working for you and you're going to move on.

 

If he freaks and decides he can't lose you and therefore decides to step it up, then maybe you have something there. If he says 'oh bummer, I understand, good luck' then you have your answer.

 

It's that 'let it go and see if it comes back to you' thing.

[oldschool1]

I feel for you. I have been there, and it's not so fun being the "cool" girl.

 

I got into a relationship a few months after separating from my husband, and this man wanted to be exclusive after a month. He had good intentions and wanted to be my boyfriend. However, he was never big into communication, nor did he want to see me very much (initially just once a week for a planned mega-date). Over time these things increased substantially, but here was the problem: we never established that core communication that would enable us to really fall in love. Since I had just come out of a 10 year relationship, I was happy taking things slow...at first. When I came out of my post-divorce fog, I started to want more. Though the relationship wore on for 2 1/2 years, it never felt entirely permanent or satisfying. 2 1/2 years of restrained texting and zero phone conversations could not possibly result in anything truly substantial, because the nuclear reactor of the relationship was only fueled by sex and shallow activities. Once I realized this, it was too late to do anything about it. Honestly, it was partly MY fault. I should have spoken up much earlier rather than acting all "cool" and "un-needy". Instead, I evaded communication. Why? Because I knew deep down that we had nothing to talk about.

 

It may be too late to turn your relationship into something more, but you can always try. Try to figure out what it is YOU want. Do you want a more serious boyfriend? How many times a week do you want to see him? Do you want him to celebrate Valentine's Day with you and tell you he loves you? I think talking on the phone is a good start, as it facilitates real communication (especially when he's out of town). Planning dates in advance is also fun without seeming overly "relationshipy".

 

I really agree that men only strive for the relationship they WANT. Sometimes casual relationships can get more serious, but FWB situations rarely change their inner core. This guy has a great arrangement with you---there are almost zero requirements of him. It's not necessarily about withholding sex. You waited three months to have sex with him, which is a fairly long time (assuming you saw each other once a week or more). You get something from sex too (hopefully!), so it's not some kind of gift that you hoard. The gift is your precious time/attention/companionship. Does he deserve it?

 

Just remember that if you're not getting your needs met, then being "cool" is not the right approach. I have seen friends continue with these FWB-esque relationships for an awfully long time, and they generally rationalize the heck out of them. Eventually, someone gets fed up and they end. A pic in front of a strip club isn't necessarily problematic from a moral standpoint, but the larger point is that he's not with YOU. He's having a life, and you're not entirely in it. I send pics from vacations to friends, but that doesn't mean that I will be inviting them on future excursions!