I think I understand why its been hard for me to find someone (Version 2)

[RedRobin]

By then, he will be married to a sweet woman who saw his heart despite his credit score.

 

Good for him. Then when he gets himself in a financial bind again (which he will, if he doesn't fix the issues that got him in that boat to begin with), she will have no one to blame but herself. He, in the meantime, has a 'sweet wife'.

 

Bad deal for her. Great deal for him. Got it.

Edited March 4, 2013 by RedRobin

[Emilia]

 

Before I agree to be intimate with them, I need to know their credit score, not a credit report.

 

To me it is no different than them getting STD tests.

 

They don't have to agree to it though... and we can find some other way to get to know each other.

 

Any emotionally healthy man runs from women who would put him through tests like this, especially because he has options, he doesn't have to put up with this s**t. Which is exactly why you end up dating losers. You attract the dysfunctional.

[grkBoy]

He and my mom raised us to be self-sufficient and not take cr*p from guys...

 

I don't see that as a bad thing, but I would have to ask what you are seeking then in a man.

 

 

I am not painting this as you, but I have noticed the women who were raised to be strong and independent often fail at dating because of a few possible reasons:

 

1) They seek out an alpha male who is like her. Believing she must marry a man who is as strong, career-driven, and independent as her...she'll bypass anyone who isn't pushing for success and perfection. Unfortunately these same women then are complaining why those men reject them for younger subservient women...or even why they won't commit at all.

 

"I have a masters degree, make 7 figures, and have the body of an athlete...how could he pass me up for that cocktail waitress?"

 

"He's the perfect man...but he doesn't believe in monogamy or marriage!"

 

 

2) They seek control. Well, they were raised to be in control of their lives, and thus this continually causes them to butt heads with the men they get involved with. Some turn into the "sitcom wives" that seemingly are constantly chasing and "mothering" their men. Others simply just find often they're seemingly competing or fighting to take the lead in the relationship. Some are even confused, as they want the dominant male, but then suddenly want him to be subservient to him...when he won't.

 

"He'll leave dishes in his sink until the weekend. I don't know why he can't just wash them immediately."

 

"He told me last night that I act more like his mom than his girlfriend!"

 

 

3) They think like men...in a bad way. Like how men will avoid commitment because they think a better woman might come along, these women do the same. Most of it comes from the push to be strong/independent, but also from rolling in the "man's world" with school and career. Some will use and toss away men the way the men will with women.

 

That...or they are so independent-minded that they won't allow someone to be a part of their lives.

 

"He's great in bed, but I can't fathom making him my boyfriend. He's a lowly bartender."

 

"I work, go to the gym, and more work after that. I'm too busy for a relationship. Every guy I meet wants me to spend time with him and such. They just want to control me, make me put on an apron, cook, clean, raise kids, etc."

 

 

NOW...and I reiterate...I am NOT saying this is you. I only speak based on my own observations and experiences. I have not been in your life and thus have no clue what you pursue.

 

However, if any of this does make you think "I do that sometimes" then you might find the causes of why you're failing in love. Relationships in my opinion are about a partnership, which means sometimes the man takes the lead and sometimes the woman takes the lead. I know we've been told the man should lead...but this is 2013 and that would totally conflict your strong/independent brain. Lord knows I myself would not want a total subservient woman...yuk!

 

Men you should pursue are those who have the stable life, career, etc...but aren't the insane "I WILL BE CEO ONE DAY!" workoholics who seemingly can't handle not being in charge. You'll just fight with them all the time.

 

Women tend to see Mr-Stable-and-willing-to-compromise as weak and too agreeable. Granted there are doormats who are weaklings, but they should not be mistaken for the guy who wants the partnership and is willing to listen as much as lead.

 

I tend to look at my RL that way. I'll lead, but I'll also let my fiancee lead. We don't fight because we both pick our battles, and feel the RL is too important to squander it on dishes, shoes, or other trivial things. I don't feel emasculated ever by her, but I also don't try to make her a Stepford Wife.

 

Think about it. Look at yourself. Maybe some of this will help.

[RedRobin]

I just got a note from the wife of one of my good friends, who I saw last week.

 

I was hoping to spend time with both of them, but she is in France visiting her ailing father. He told her I was in a bit of a funk, and she invited me over to spend some time with her.

 

She's so old-fashioned. She sent me a nice handwritten card.

 

So I'm leaving for France next week...

 

... and doing what I said earlier in the thread. Using my time where it is better spent... with friends and family.

[ltjg45]

Thank you.

 

Good luck with everything. I don't know if you listen to NPR much, but there is a really good show that talks about money management that is called "Marketplace Money."

 

You can probably live stream it from their website if you are interested.

 

I'm not sure what NPR is.

 

If you can answer that, I'm confident I can find it.

 

Thanks though. As for my credit score, all I need to do is find employment. Once I do that, I get these constant calls about their money off of my back in time.

[Imported]

 

Single guys (at least the ones on this thread)... That's your 'competition'...

 

 

RedRobin, any guy that is worth his salt will not put up with your ****. The guys in your age range can probably get women that are easier to get along with as well as younger women. That's your competition for those guys and with your deathly bitter attitude I doubt you'd even be in the running.

 

The guys that will actually put up with your ****, well your competition for them is probably a night staying home jacking off to porn or a date with RedRobin. I'd suggest they stay home.

[Lonely Ronin]

Ruby enjoys 'bossy' men.

oh, hey guys on the "I gotta be the boss" train on this thread...

 

Keep thinking that Red.....

 

Sorry... if I want to take those kinds of risks, all I need to do is buy a box of condoms, and go pick up the hottest, richest guy I can find (preferably married, because he has something to lose) and who won't kill me... oh, and whose personality I can stomach long enough to have sex with.

 

Single guys (at least the ones on this thread)... That's your 'competition'...

 

Please explain to me again how you don't have a ridiculously negative view of men, and will take any chance you can to take swipes at them.

 

And earlier you made a comment to me about picking battles, I have yet to see you do that, it seems like you want to but heads with anyone who doesn't share your exact view point.

[mesmerized]

RedRobin, any guy that is worth his salt will not put up with your ****. The guys in your age range can probably get women that are easier to get along with as well as younger women. That's your competition for those guys and with your deathly bitter attitude I doubt you'd even be in the running.

 

The guys that will actually put up with your ****, well your competition for them is probably a night staying home jacking off to porn or a date with RedRobin. I'd suggest they stay home.

 

I usually don't agree with this poster but I have to agree with him here...I don't know many men who would be willing to put up with you and all your expectations. What do YOU really have to offer?

[RedRobin]

I'm not sure what NPR is.

 

If you can answer that, I'm confident I can find it.

 

Thanks though. As for my credit score, all I need to do is find employment. Once I do that, I get these constant calls about their money off of my back in time.

 

NPR is National Public Radio. You probably have a local public radio station nearby or can live stream it.

 

You can do it... just make a plan... set a budget, and stick to it. Even little things count... You'd be amazed how much you can save just by putting aside your change.

 

I got my piano tuned (about $120 worth) with the money I saved from spare change. Boy, was I shocked!

[Imported]

 

Sorry... if I want to take those kinds of risks, all I need to do is buy a box of condoms, and go pick up the hottest, richest guy I can find (preferably married, because he has something to lose) and who won't kill me... oh, and whose personality I can stomach long enough to have sex with.

 

Single guys (at least the ones on this thread)... That's your 'competition'...

 

And if I knew I was with a girl that was so brain damaged or morally lacking that she see's no problems with ****ing around with a married guy :sick:

[xxoo]

Good for him. Then when he gets himself in a financial bind again (which he will, if he doesn't fix the issues that got him in that boat to begin with), she will have no one to blame but herself. He, in the meantime, has a 'sweet wife'.

 

Bad deal for her. Great deal for him. Got it.

 

Ah, but we were talking about a hardworking, responsible man. Great deal for her! And him, too

[Green Light]

 

I got my piano tuned

 

Is that some new sexual slang? If it isn't it should be!

 

Guy 1: Hey, dude, did you get yer piano tuned last night?

Guy 2: You know it dude, she tuned it REAL good!

Gut 1: Awesome!

 

Girl 1: Hey, girlfriend, that look on your face, I can tell sumpin' is up! Did he tune your piano?!?!

Girl 2: You know it, girl, he tuned it so good, once in bed and then again in the shower!

Girl 1: You go girl!

[RedRobin]

Relationships in my opinion are about a partnership, which means sometimes the man takes the lead and sometimes the woman takes the lead. I know we've been told the man should lead...but this is 2013 and that would totally conflict your strong/independent brain.

 

 

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I really appreciate it.

 

I was raised to believe the above... and have lots of examples of couples IRL who manage to do this.

 

When I got the email from my dad... I dunno why. It just made me think of their marriage.... and how I'll never have that... and how, whatever chance I had is gone. It just hit me really hard. But it is ok. People overcome lots worse in life than this.

 

At the same time, I just felt so grateful for having both of them in my life too.

 

The trip to France will be a nice distraction and pull me out of the 'vortex of despair' that LS encourages in me. Sometimes I swear I come back here just to be reminded of what I'm NOT missing by not dating.

[RedRobin]

I usually don't agree with this poster but I have to agree with him here...I don't know many men who would be willing to put up with you and all your expectations. What do YOU really have to offer?

 

I have nothing whatsoever to offer the men he describes.

 

Those men aren't looking for commitment or a life-partner. If they don't come to the table already valuing those things, nothing I am or do will make any difference at all.

 

... because there will always be someone hotter, younger, or more eager to please for those kinds of guys *shrug*. Best to just let them go on their way.

[ltjg45]

NPR is National Public Radio. You probably have a local public radio station nearby or can live stream it.

 

You can do it... just make a plan... set a budget, and stick to it. Even little things count... You'd be amazed how much you can save just by putting aside your change.

 

I got my piano tuned (about $120 worth) with the money I saved from spare change. Boy, was I shocked!

 

I'm sure I do. Just the matter of getting it off the ground.

 

Thanks for the info.

[ltjg45]

Is that some new sexual slang? If it isn't it should be!

 

Guy 1: Hey, dude, did you get yer piano tuned last night?

Guy 2: You know it dude, she tuned it REAL good!

Gut 1: Awesome!

 

Girl 1: Hey, girlfriend, that look on your face, I can tell sumpin' is up! Did he tune your piano?!?!

Girl 2: You know it, girl, he tuned it so good, once in bed and then again in the shower!

Girl 1: You go girl!

 

Stop trying to twist her works.

 

By doing this, all you are doing is weakening your own case at the end.

[Green Light]

Stop trying to twist her works.

 

By doing this, all you are doing is weakening your own case at the end.

 

 

I don't have any "case" all I asserted was that the OP seems a bit uptight. She seems to take life VERY seriously. Much too seriously if you ask me!

[ltjg45]

I don't have any "case" all I asserted was that the OP seems a bit uptight. She seems to take life VERY seriously. Much too seriously if you ask me!

 

Well, everyone is different. We are just seeing another case of that from her and, frankly, I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

At least she isn't directly complaining about her dating "issues", if you want to call it that.

 

She is comfortable with the way she is approaching dating and the results that can come from such a choice. No need to mock her for it.

[RedRobin]

I don't have any "case" all I asserted was that the OP seems a bit uptight. She seems to take life VERY seriously. Much too seriously if you ask me!

 

... and yet, strangely enough, this thread started out with a JOKE... praising a man (my father).

 

The lengths some of you won't go to... is beyond me.

 

You ever played a piano? Do you know how to play any instruments? Ever cared to learn?

 

Wanna hear about mine? (sure! everyone says)...

 

My piano is a turn of the century, mahogany upright manufactured by Cluett in Troy, NY. It is very similar to the one I played when I was a kid at my great grandmother's house. She was a wonderful, and loving woman herself. It should be no surprise that my mom was her descendent.

 

Wanna hear about how it came to me? (Sure! why not?)

One of my close friends was diagnosed with a mysterious illness years ago. To this day, she has never told anyone what she has. See, she lives in the public eye and was concerned people would be planning her early exit if she told them... so she kept it to herself. I don't blame her. I've learned a lot from her. She is very wise.

 

She recently suffered a stroke that nearly killed her. She and her husband, another close friend of mine who I ride motorcycles with, knew how much I loved her piano... so when they needed to make room in their old Victorian home for a first floor bedroom for her, they gave it to me. (they have been married for nearly 40 years. Her husband is caring for her in their home. Another good man....)

 

I swore to them that I would only be 'borrowing' it. That should I move or when I die, I will make sure in my will that their beloved piano will go back to her family.

 

Tuning her piano was the least I could do for her amazing gift and opportunity.

 

So... instead of dating... I'm learning how to play the piano... Seems a much better use of my time considering the crop of low-lifes whose entire existence seems to revolve around their genitals... and 'men' who seek to engage me with their lame-*ss needs... and expect me to show them what I have to 'offer'

 

... and they can't be bothered to share or discuss their credit score?? or get an STD test? before becoming sexually intimate and beginning a relationship?

 

Thank you... I guess is all I have to say... thank you for demonstrating with utter clarity your complete and perfect shallowness.

Edited March 5, 2013 by RedRobin

[iKING]

... and yet, strangely enough, this thread started out with a JOKE... praising a man (my father).

 

The lengths some of you won't go to... is beyond me.

 

You ever played a piano? Do you know how to play any instruments? Ever cared to learn?

 

Wanna hear about mine? (sure! everyone says)...

 

My piano is a turn of the century, mahogany upright manufactured by Cluett in Troy, NY. It is very similar to the one I played when I was a kid at my great grandmother's house. She was a wonderful, and loving woman herself. It should be no surprise that my mom was her descendent.

 

Wanna hear about how it came to me? (Sure! why not?)

One of my close friends was diagnosed with a mysterious illness years ago. To this day, she has never told anyone what she has. See, she lives in the public eye and was concerned people would be planning her early exit if she told them... so she kept it to herself. I don't blame her. I've learned a lot from her. She is very wise.

 

She recently suffered a stroke that nearly killed her. She and her husband, another close friend of mine who I ride motorcycles with, knew how much I loved her piano... so when they needed to make room in their old Victorian home for a first floor bedroom for her, they gave it to me.

 

I swore to them that I would only be 'borrowing' it. That should I move or when I die, I will make sure in my will that their beloved piano will go back to her family.

 

Tuning her piano was the least I could do for her amazing gift and opportunity.

 

So... instead of dating... I'm learning how to play the piano... Seems a much better use of my time considering the crop of low-lifes whose entire existence seems to revolve around their penises that seek to engage me with their lame-*ss needs... and expect me to show them what I have to 'offer'

 

... and they can't be bothered to share or discuss their credit score?? or get an STD test?

 

Thank you... I guess is all I have to say... thank you for demonstrating with utter clarity your complete and perfect shallowness.

 

I liked the piano story, that was really sweet. I can't say I blame you for investing your time in learning how to play. Then again I'm also a sucker for the piano.

 

Personally I like the violin, played for 5 years or so.

 

There's something about playing instruments that's really soothing, like being able to just forget the world.

[Green Light]

So you can't learn to play the piano AND date at the same time? Geez! You seem to take things so seriously! And calling people "low-lifes" isn't shallow? That's quite the blanket statement there. And aren't you also expecting these "low-lifes" to show you what they have to offer(credit score)?

[RedRobin]

Any emotionally healthy man runs from women who would put him through tests like this, especially because he has options, he doesn't have to put up with this s**t. Which is exactly why you end up dating losers. You attract the dysfunctional.

 

Any emotionally healthy man who is looking for a committed relationship and has anything significant to lose will understand and appreciate the need for appropriate boundaries.

 

He may not be ready to provide the information I've requested (and I don't press), but he would understand and not run. If anything, it would spur an important discussion about how people manage their financial (credit) and physical (STD) health. Especially since I'm not asking for anything I'm not willing to provide myself... and since I'm not a fan of going on 'faith' with this cr*p given lots of men's willingness to fudge on things to get a piece of *ss or my emotional investment. I'll be wanting it in writing. Thank you.

 

...about the 'loser' comment... These 'tests' were developed after giving one too many questionable men trying to climb some dating ladder an opportunity to get to know me.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how people can be so cavalier when it comes to their romantic lives... but hey, it's your life.

[ChessPieceFace]

Most guys I know would stay far away from any woman trying to pry into their credit rating or anything else ridiculous like that. You have some fantasy that "the men who jump through my hoops are the worthwhile ones." No. You drove away most of the worthwhile ones with your little tests.

 

Here's an idea - how about trying to be normal, and treat men like human beings instead of job candidates. And if you're having bad luck with loser men, change where you're looking.

[man_in_the_box]

Most guys I know would stay far away from any woman trying to pry into their credit rating or anything else ridiculous like that.

 

Haha, it has golddigger written all over it - if you perceive it out of the blue like that.

[RedRobin]

I don't see that as a bad thing, but I would have to ask what you are seeking then in a man.

 

 

I am not painting this as you, but I have noticed the women who were raised to be strong and independent often fail at dating because of a few possible reasons:

 

1) They seek out an alpha male who is like her. Believing she must marry a man who is as strong, career-driven, and independent as her...she'll bypass anyone who isn't pushing for success and perfection. Unfortunately these same women then are complaining why those men reject them for younger subservient women...or even why they won't commit at all.

 

"I have a masters degree, make 7 figures, and have the body of an athlete...how could he pass me up for that cocktail waitress?"

 

"He's the perfect man...but he doesn't believe in monogamy or marriage!"

 

 

2) They seek control. Well, they were raised to be in control of their lives, and thus this continually causes them to butt heads with the men they get involved with. Some turn into the "sitcom wives" that seemingly are constantly chasing and "mothering" their men. Others simply just find often they're seemingly competing or fighting to take the lead in the relationship. Some are even confused, as they want the dominant male, but then suddenly want him to be subservient to him...when he won't.

 

"He'll leave dishes in his sink until the weekend. I don't know why he can't just wash them immediately."

 

"He told me last night that I act more like his mom than his girlfriend!"

 

 

3) They think like men...in a bad way. Like how men will avoid commitment because they think a better woman might come along, these women do the same. Most of it comes from the push to be strong/independent, but also from rolling in the "man's world" with school and career. Some will use and toss away men the way the men will with women.

 

That...or they are so independent-minded that they won't allow someone to be a part of their lives.

 

"He's great in bed, but I can't fathom making him my boyfriend. He's a lowly bartender."

 

"I work, go to the gym, and more work after that. I'm too busy for a relationship. Every guy I meet wants me to spend time with him and such. They just want to control me, make me put on an apron, cook, clean, raise kids, etc."

 

 

NOW...and I reiterate...I am NOT saying this is you. I only speak based on my own observations and experiences. I have not been in your life and thus have no clue what you pursue.

 

However, if any of this does make you think "I do that sometimes" then you might find the causes of why you're failing in love. Relationships in my opinion are about a partnership, which means sometimes the man takes the lead and sometimes the woman takes the lead. I know we've been told the man should lead...but this is 2013 and that would totally conflict your strong/independent brain. Lord knows I myself would not want a total subservient woman...yuk!

 

Men you should pursue are those who have the stable life, career, etc...but aren't the insane "I WILL BE CEO ONE DAY!" workoholics who seemingly can't handle not being in charge. You'll just fight with them all the time.

 

Women tend to see Mr-Stable-and-willing-to-compromise as weak and too agreeable. Granted there are doormats who are weaklings, but they should not be mistaken for the guy who wants the partnership and is willing to listen as much as lead.

 

I tend to look at my RL that way. I'll lead, but I'll also let my fiancee lead. We don't fight because we both pick our battles, and feel the RL is too important to squander it on dishes, shoes, or other trivial things. I don't feel emasculated ever by her, but I also don't try to make her a Stepford Wife.

 

Think about it. Look at yourself. Maybe some of this will help.

 

... so I wanted to respond to a few things here that stood out...

 

1) No, I'm not looking for mr alpha career guy. A lot of mr alpha career guy types and others trying to climb a dating ladder seek me out though, because my credentials enhance their dating 'resume'.

 

On the other hand... I was dumped by a guy I cared about a great deal when he found out how much I made. Income was never a criteria for me... but he was insecure about it. Just like some guys are insecure about being with women who are taller or perceived to be 'above' them in some way. It comes out in a lot of really yucky ways that I just don't tolerate anymore... which brings me to...

 

2) yes. This is an issue. Not because I have a hard time sharing responsibility/leadership. THEY do. I don't need to dominate some guy. That's not productive or helpful to anyone. They'd only exert their will in other passive aggressive ways... like women are often obliged to do when they are with men who are domineering and controlling.

 

The ones who need to dominate me and cannot be reasonable find themselves gently eased out the door.

 

It is a tough balance... partly because the subtle and not-so-subtle ways both men and women have been socialized. My mom gets annoyed with me sometimes that I don't drop kick these guys more forcefully... but she's come to see the wisdom of how I do things. By giving well-intentioned, but basically clueless guys a chance to redirect their style, I haven't closed the door prematurely on something that might have a chance if I'd been more patient.

 

3) Yes, I agree there are women who 'use' men just like some men 'use' women. I've had my rows here on LS with women I perceive doing that... because they make it tougher for other women who could love these men.

 

... by the same token, I'm not ALL that sympathetic to these guys either. They are getting drawn in by charisma, flash, and the lure of easy/fun sex just like lots of women do with the player types. These women (hopefully) teach these men some valuable lessons about the need to dig a bit beneath the surface before jumping in the sack.

 

There is one thing that is definitely an issue for me though...

 

I have a hard time letting people help me. I really need to trust someone before I will let them care for me.

 

You know I really care and trust you when I let you buy me stuff and do things for me. When I'm going through something difficult, I don't tend to reach out to others. I withdraw and internalize... and muscle through it alone.

 

I'm much like a lot of men that way. Terrified of appearing weak... and actually resenting and growing to despise men who insist that I BE weak in order for them to 'love' me. It feels manipulative.

 

...on top of that... women are obliged to be emotionally available to people in ways that men are not obliged to be to anyone. This is true in both their professional and private lives. It is exhausting. When they get home, they want a man who can at least understand even if they aren't dumping the days worries on him... that she can't always be there for him emotionally 24/7 because she is facing the same challenges he is... and often worse.

 

So yea... I find lots of men to have very high expectations in the amount of emotional support they receive from women... without offering much of it themselves. Can't do it. It is just too draining.