tbf Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 Edited: Anyone who wants to respond to the original post is welcome. The rest of you looking to get your pound of flesh will have to go somewhere else and chat amongst yourselves. I'm not interested.RedRobin, this isn't to cut you or your parents down. It's an objective view for consideration. Your parents taught you not to put up with crap from men which is excellent. But what they may have done without meaning to, is to overemphasize that aspect and underemphasize that most people, men included, are a composition of positive and negative traits. In overemphasizing the negative in men, they may have zoomed your focus to looking for red flags instead of weighing the positive with the negative, since no man or woman's perfect. With the above in mind, is it possible that the men who end up passing the litmus test, who appear flawless, are actually the best actors and least honest or self-aware? 6
Author RedRobin Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) I have always felt that your attitude on LS comes across as critical and negative, both directly at me and at many other posters. My attitude towards you was based on how I felt you treated the men you dated. Even in my most cynical periods, I've NEVER used a guy like I felt you were... like some dating ladder on your way to who knows where. You don't appear to be doing that anymore, and seem clearer in your goals. Good for you. ... but since you are here... I'll tell you what I really think... I think you have fun getting men to fall in love with you... then you dump them the minute they really start to invest. Sure, that's fun for you... I get that... and you cover up with lots of positive, sexy talk like it was all good for everyone after you've proved your point or checked that box or whatever it is you do when you decide to be in a relationship with somone... Maybe it was. I dunno. I kinda doubt it though. ... but I don't treat men that way. I don't care to be treated that way either. Edited March 3, 2013 by RedRobin
Ruby Slippers Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 No guy I've ever dated would say I used him, or dumped him once I had him under my spell. I can guarantee you that. I knew my advice wouldn't be taken with the spirit it was given. I guess I'm just a charlatan like everybody else.
Author RedRobin Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 RedRobin, this isn't to cut you or your parents down. It's an objective view for consideration. Your parents taught you not to put up with crap from men which is excellent. But what they may have done without meaning to, is to overemphasize that aspect and underemphasize that most people, men included, are a composition of positive and negative traits. In overemphasizing the negative in men, they may have zoomed your focus to looking for red flags instead of weighing the positive with the negative, since no man or woman's perfect. With the above in mind, is it possible that the men who end up passing the litmus test, who appear flawless, are actually the best actors and least honest or self-aware? I've thought of that before. But their approach isn't necessarily directed towards just 'men'... it is just that I happen to be heterosexual, so that is how it comes across. If I were a guy or a lesbian, I'm sure they'd have similar advice. To not be in any relationship that is not between two equals... and to be self-sufficient. That is really the jyst of their coaching...
Author RedRobin Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 No guy I've ever dated would say I used him, or dumped him once I had him under my spell. I can guarantee you that. Good. Glad to hear that.
kaylan Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 You and I have different goals in life. I seem to recall you saying something similar about me requiring STD tests before sleeping with someone. I dont require a test results. All I need to know is that the girl is clean and has been tested recently. And keep in mind that I'm not hooking up with strangers or near strangers. I never said you were. Even if I had been seriously dating a girl for 6 months, being asked about my credit score is a red flag and a turn off. Asking for a credit score is just another way of verifying that he is who he says he is. I'm happy to offer mine, so it should be no big deal. I dont see why credit scores matter when we are trying to see how compatible someone is with us on a personality level. And unless Im getting married very soon and making a large purchase with someone else, I dont need to know their credit score. No matter what you say, its an intrusive and odd request for most people.
Author RedRobin Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 I dont require a test results. All I need to know is that the girl is clean and has been tested recently. I never said you were. Even if I had been seriously dating a girl for 6 months, being asked about my credit score is a red flag and a turn off. I dont see why credit scores matter when we are trying to see how compatible someone is with us on a personality level. And unless Im getting married very soon and making a large purchase with someone else, I dont need to know their credit score. No matter what you say, its an intrusive and odd request for most people. I'm not getting emotionally attached or committing to someone with those issues. That's all. If they don't feel like sharing, that's fine. We can be friends.
kaylan Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 ^Those issues? People have bad credit for a variety of reasons. Plenty of great guys youd be emotionally and physically compatible with too. Its not unreasonable for anyone to be turned off about why their credit score matters to some woman they arent making a big purchase with. Relationships arent always about hard and fast check lists. You should have figured that out by now if you ever considered that youre lists are what prevents you from finding what you want. Enjoy being single. You are too judgmental, overly analytical and a rather lost cause in my view.
xxoo Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 I've thought of that before. But their approach isn't necessarily directed towards just 'men'... it is just that I happen to be heterosexual, so that is how it comes across. If I were a guy or a lesbian, I'm sure they'd have similar advice. To not be in any relationship that is not between two equals... and to be self-sufficient. That is really the jyst of their coaching... What are "equals"?
Author RedRobin Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 Thank you for sharing this. Sometimes when I observe the marriages of my friends and family... I feel like such an outsider. They were so lucky to find someone when they were younger and could build a life together. I'm really lucky to have them as a family, and that I have such a great example. But it makes me sad too. I lost my chance to have what they have... I'm doing my best to be ok with it but it is hard sometimes. For what it is worth... none of the significant men in my life look anything like my dad or even each other... and are much different in background, sense of humor, and lots of things. My only wish was to find someone who has his sense of commitment and, well, maybe his curiosity about the world and perseverance. It shouldn't be that hard... but it is... because people don't get that people like my parents made the commitment FIRST and 'true love' came second. They got married when they were 19 and 20(!!). They didn't spend their youth racking up numbers, playing the field, and gaining 'experience'. They got their experience in love by demonstrating it. With each other. They took a risk like anyone. It was through their commitment that love had a chance to deepen and grow. I was devoted to my ex-H. But someone told him he didn't have to keep his promises. .............................................................................
Author RedRobin Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 ^Those issues? People have bad credit for a variety of reasons. Plenty of great guys youd be emotionally and physically compatible with too. Its not unreasonable for anyone to be turned off about why their credit score matters to some woman they arent making a big purchase with. Relationships arent always about hard and fast check lists. You should have figured that out by now if you ever considered that youre lists are what prevents you from finding what you want.. Fine... let the girlfriends they'll never marry help them clean up their credit. I have other things to do.
Author RedRobin Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 What are "equals"? People who are both willing to share the load equally to the best of their ability. Neither of my parents hold traditional gender roles of what does or doesn't get done. They each have their personal strengths and weaknesses and negotiate. There have been periods when they had a very tough time coming to an agreement on something. To this day, there are still some things they will never see eye to eye on. But the major things? They just keep hashing it out until they come up with a solution they can both be happy with and fully embrace... then they stick to it.
xxoo Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 If you are looking for equals like your mom and dad when they got together, you may have to use a time machine and find a 20 year old for your 19 year old self. Some of these litmus tests are not accurate for what you want to screen out. A person with a low credit score can have poor financial skills and habits, or could have been hit with a job loss and foreclosure in the past 3 years. Or could have medical bills for a sick child. By the age of 40+, people have lived, and life is messy. What if these "great guys" are screening out divorced women, and aren't interested in the reasons your marriage failed? It makes about as much sense as screening out a poor credit score. 1
kaylan Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 Fine... let the girlfriends they'll never marry help them clean up their credit. I have other things to do. ??? Who says they need any women helping them fix their credit. Plenty of people are independent and fix their own credit issues. And the point was that credit history shouldnt matter to someone you are still getting to know. Hell, I wouldnt ask a girlfriend that question unless we were close to moving in together. You are talking about asking someone that before sex. I mean really? Everyone else sees why that is very odd except you.
xxoo Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 People who are both willing to share the load equally to the best of their ability. Neither of my parents hold traditional gender roles of what does or doesn't get done. They each have their personal strengths and weaknesses and negotiate. There have been periods when they had a very tough time coming to an agreement on something. To this day, there are still some things they will never see eye to eye on. But the major things? They just keep hashing it out until they come up with a solution they can both be happy with and fully embrace... then they stick to it. That egalitarianism is more common than not among the younger generations. Whether couples can fight fair and resolve conflict is another issue.
Author RedRobin Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 If you are looking for equals like your mom and dad when they got together, you may have to use a time machine and find a 20 year old for your 19 year old self. Some of these litmus tests are not accurate for what you want to screen out. A person with a low credit score can have poor financial skills and habits, or could have been hit with a job loss and foreclosure in the past 3 years. Or could have medical bills for a sick child. By the age of 40+, people have lived, and life is messy. What if these "great guys" are screening out divorced women, and aren't interested in the reasons your marriage failed? It makes about as much sense as screening out a poor credit score. People screen for all kinds of reasons. I have been screened out by some because I'm divorced. That is their prerogative. Asking about a credit score puts the issue on the table at least. These are important things to discuss before becoming too emotionally invested. If they don't want to talk about it or they don't think it should be shared, then we can be just friends. We can get to know each other some other way... and save it for another time. 1
Author RedRobin Posted March 3, 2013 Author Posted March 3, 2013 That egalitarianism is more common than not among the younger generations. Whether couples can fight fair and resolve conflict is another issue. Agreed!!...............
xxoo Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Resolving relationship conflicts requires a great degree of selflessness I have a hard time seeing RedRobin being ready for. It also takes a great degree of trust.
Lonely Ronin Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 It also takes a great degree of trust. And see, I think this is a big problem for Red. For her postings, it seems like she trusts no man.
Author RedRobin Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 It also takes a great degree of trust. It is a myth that resolving conflicts requires selflessness. If that were true then every act of diplomacy would fail. If one person is doing all the sacrificing, the other will only feel resentment. This is why I don't make demands. That builds resentment too. There are ways both people can address their concerns and negotiate effectively so that both of their needs are met. First, they have to be honest about what their needs really are. They have to be willing to have the discussion. Then they have to stick to what they agreed to. That is where trust comes in. If they don't stick to their agreements, then there is no reason to trust. Too many men I come across have been brainwashed with this 'alpha', 'head of the household' cr*p, where they assume they can stomp around and order people around... and they actually believe they are supposed to be respected for that.
Sanitarium Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 You and I have different goals in life. I seem to recall you saying something similar about me requiring STD tests before sleeping with someone. And keep in mind that I'm not hooking up with strangers or near strangers. Asking for a credit score is just another way of verifying that he is who he says he is. I'm happy to offer mine, so it should be no big deal. I make a lot of money and have a near flawless credit score and I would be baffled by somebody asking for a credit report. How do you not see how strange that is?
xxoo Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 It is a myth that resolving conflicts requires selflessness. If that were true then every act of diplomacy would fail. If one person is doing all the sacrificing, the other will only feel resentment. This is why I don't make demands. That builds resentment too. There are ways both people can address their concerns and negotiate effectively so that both of their needs are met. First, they have to be honest about what their needs really are. They have to be willing to have the discussion. Then they have to stick to what they agreed to. That is where trust comes in. If they don't stick to their agreements, then there is no reason to trust. Too many men I come across have been brainwashed with this 'alpha', 'head of the household' cr*p, where they assume they can stomp around and order people around... and they actually believe they are supposed to be respected for that. There is more to the trust part than that. It also requires leaving all the baggage about "men" or "women" at the door and giving your partner the benefit of the doubt. It goes both ways. A lot of women's communication is dismissed as "nagging" because the guy has baggage and views it that way. Men's is dismissed as "bossing". Successful couples cut through all that crap and trust each other enough to really listen and work it out. Resolving conflict takes mutual selflessness. Ideally, both partners are putting the other first. My H and I have arguments about who will do the dishes, both pushing the other out of the kitchen 1
Sanitarium Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 I believe that most men these days aren't interested in relationships or commitment... and I've gotten very good at filtering those out. yet most men end up getting married. How is that possible? You realize what you are saying is the equivalent of "there is something very wrong with the 3 billion men on this planet and nothing wrong with me that I can't find somebody"? I hope you realize how absurd these kind of statements are
Author RedRobin Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 I make a lot of money and have a near flawless credit score and I would be baffled by somebody asking for a credit report. How do you not see how strange that is? I don't care how much money a guy makes. He could be a millionaire and still be over his eyeballs in debt... or make a modest salary as a school teacher and manage his finances quite well. Before I agree to be intimate with them, I need to know their credit score, not a credit report. To me it is no different than them getting STD tests. They don't have to agree to it though... and we can find some other way to get to know each other. If they have some serious credit issues, I may not agree to date him, but I'd be open to getting to know him better while he gets on his feet if he's a nice guy and we have some things in common.
Sanitarium Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 I don't care how much money a guy makes. He could be a millionaire and still be over his eyeballs in debt... or make a modest salary as a school teacher and manage his finances quite well. I make almost six figures and have a mid 700 credit score (only reason it's not 800+ is because I'm young) and I would still find your request to be very very odd I hope you at least find some indirect way of asking about it that somehow naturally pops up in a conversation (maybe when you're talking about buying a house or a car or something). That question out of the blue would baffle most men
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