21 y/o girl here hopelessly attracted to a 42 y/o man I work with - is it mutual??

March 1, 2013

I'm confused. What protective treatment are you talking about?

Your own use of the "different dynamic" code. Others' use of the stranger danger predator hysteria where it isn't at all warranted by anything posted in the OP for another. Other than the fact that a) she's a young woman, and b) he's an older man, in the OP leads to these and that's hogwash. The same kinds of protections don't inherently apply to young men dating older women, do they? All the predator talk never seems to come up when the man in question is younger. That's special protective treatment for women because of gender, and it isn't "equal" in the least.

No second or third party is protecting the OP. She is simply trying to protect herself, as any independent adult should.

No, I'm talking about the protective and misandric elements in certain posts in this thread, and you know that full well.

Here is why women are special in the dating world...

Even assuming arguendo that everything following the dots made any sense at all and was true, which it doesn't and isn't, those factors are wholly irrelevant to OP and OP's situation of contemplating having NSA sex with this guy. And if they aren't irrelevant, they go without saying. OP presumably knows women get pregnant and have to carry children for 9 months, take care of them for years after if they don't terminate the pregnancy. Flimsy rationale for the point you are attempting.

So you think the "predator in the bushes" doesn't exist? ... He's free to lurk in bushes all day and that's fine.

Equivalent, yet with much more offensive gender negative content, to saying, "Well OP's probably a dumb, easy lay due to contemplating NSA sex with this guy, women who do that kind of thing are whores, will whore it up with lots of dudes in time, so what's the harm of adding one more to the list?"

Neither the above nor the predator talk are in any way appropriate to OP's post.

And as far as the predator in the bushes? sure he's out there, about 5% of the time he's cried about he's actually there. That's an awful lot of unwarranted wailing and wolf-crying though, as offensive and misadric as abuse hysteria culture is. When the guy sends her pictures of his dick on her phone or asks for a pair of her panties, then let the predator howling begin. Until then, though, it's offensive, unnecessary, irrational and unwarranted.

March 1, 2013

One more thing by the way, somewhat topical. I walk by "sex offender" lists regularly in courts and have for some time. They are quite lengthy, even in small towns, but still don't even amount to 1/10 of 1% of the population. I used to think "wow there are lots of predators for a town this size, must be 50- 100 in a town of 50,000 people, that seems like a lot, wonder if it's something in the water?"

Then one day I asked a DA "why are there so many sexual predators around here?" She laughed and said "A large majority of them are due to false claims by wives in custody disputes during contentious divorces. Most of the rest of them are statutory rape cases where a 19 y.o. got caught having sex with his 15 y.o. GF."

"How many real predators/ child molesters do we have around these parts then?"

"Dunno, 4-5 at least, maybe 10 max that I have knowledge of."

I went to the local abuse shelter for some reason I forget. It was empty of tenants. I asked a woman I know who works for the state here how many women use the shelter. "Quite a lot actually, 20-30 a year." ... again out of 50k pop. Something about rampant abuse hysteria in our culture simply doesn't add up. This is not meant to detract from the suffering of real victims, there simply aren't that many of the, at least not in my average American area.

I then recalled lots of chats with female friends in college and after, seems like every single one of them had some "abuse" story from the past from family members, BFs, other men, etc., yet none of them did anything about it somehow. Then something really started to stink and I noticed a huge proportion of female oriented dramatic entertainment revolves around abuse and male predation. I also noticed many otherwise normal, healthy women tended to sit around with friends and talk about all the male "abuse" they had suffered in life as if it was some kind of gossip topic.

The last straw was met a girl in a bar, much younger. She blithely stated in the middle of our convo that her grandfather had raped her just last week! Then literally in the next sentence, she was asking if I wanted to hang out and party??? :sick::sick:

Things started to get real clear about the actual frequency of this predation we hear so much about. Glad I looked into it. Was blind for a long time, no more.

50,000 pop. 4-5 real pervs. Yet it's PERVASIVE in our media.

Just trying to explain my sensitivity on this topic. Abuse hysteria is sexist and wrong.

Edited March 1, 2013 by dasein

March 1, 2013

^My attorney father from the big city would laugh at your post. If you think a town of 50k is representative of the crime in the entire country, or even a large city...you gotta think a lot harder.

My issue with your mode of thinking is that it seeks to minimize and discredit a lot of the real crimes out there against women. Just because one area doesnt have much of it, or just because one chick seems to not think much of it, doesnt mean its not a serious issue in other areas.

Did you know a large number of rapists are never prosecuted because many victims dont come forward? Have you ever dated a girl who was sexually abused, or had a good friend who was abused? If you did, then I feel your viewpoint would be a great deal different.

PS - Heres a good example.

How many kids have been abused in the Catholic Church vs how many preists have actually been prosecuted for their crimes? Hell, many people (kids who are now adults) havent come forward...and theres a lot of information out there that shows the Church has tried to protect pedophiles and do nothing about these crime. So just because registered numbers are low...doesnt really tell the whole story.

Edited March 1, 2013 by kaylan

March 1, 2013

^My attorney father from the big city would laugh at your post. If you think a town of 50k is representative of the crime in the entire country, or even a large city...you gotta think a lot harder.

Any even anecdotal facts in here, or maybe your dad can come post? Prolly not right?

Lived in your city by the way for six years. My experiences there were no different.

I know exactly two women out of the thousand or so I know well enough to know who claimed real, legit spousal abuse. Both in divorces. One... -one- was probably legit. The other one dated a friend and turned out to be a nasty, violent alcoholic. Met her ex eventually, he was neither nasty nor violent. The damage he supposedly did bashing holes in the walls of their house? She did it.

My issue with your mode of thinking is that it seeks to minimize and discredit a lot of the real crimes out there against women.

No it doesn't. As stated previously, there simply aren't as many legit cases per capita as our entertainment, news, and most importantly the big f word that doesn't have four letters lead us to believe.

Did you know a large number of rapists are never prosecuted because many victims dont come forward? Have you ever dated a girl who was sexually abused, or had a good friend who was abused? If you did, then I feel your viewpoint would be a great deal different.

And I've learned to identify the first sentence as exactly the kind of feminist snowjob it is.

And yes, I have dated many women who cited to past abuse. The last one, was at her brother's house, and she and he had a somewhat antagonistic, strange relationship. While alone, he was singing her faults. "She didn't tell you that line about uncle x or that BF of mom's getting in her pants did she? Never happened, she tells that crap to all her BFs."

Should I go on and list more?

Edited March 1, 2013 by dasein

March 1, 2013

Ok, the last few posts were waaay off topic, so let's get back on track guys, cuz you have a woman here who agree's with you 100% Dasein !

I, am a woman in my 40's, who met, befriended, then dated and married a man in his 20's WHO I WORKED WITH. ( same level, as with the OP)

I was raised pretty gender blind apparently, and I personally was offended by the assumptions above as I felt that they could easily be talking about me and my amazing, wonderful, supportive marriage.

AND as a women, I am equally offended: I was not little red riding hood about to be devoured by the big scary wolf when I was 22 and dated men in their 40's either.

So, 20's or 40's, I was not stupid OR predatory : I was a person who met and perhaps liked other people for all the crazy reasons people like other people.

BACK TO THE OP: You sound shy. Which is cool, but it sounds mainly to me like this guy is an obvious extrovert who befriends EVERYONE, teases them, comforts them, has a lot of experience in the hospitality business and likes to show others the ropes. The restaurant biz is inherently a very familiar type of workplace, where people share a LOT, similar to a band or theater troupe, and less like an accounting firm working 9-5 in cubicles.

So, we have NO idea from what you posted ( not your fault, sounds like you don't know either:) whether this guy LIKES, likes you, or is just a friendly pal type. If you find yourself in a perfect, private moment, you COULD say " I know I'm young, but I have a major crush on you, what should I do about it ? And Smile " and see what the response is. I'm guessing, despite how some people have extrapolated this guys behavior into deviance, that he will go " Ahhh, you're a cute kid, if you were ten years older..." to make you feel more confident in yourself and because he obviously has good people skills, but I COULD BE WRONG and you too could be one of those " don't fit within societies norms but have never been happier" couples.

FWIW, that ^ was pretty much MY response to my now husband. He told me I CRUSHED him when I told him " If you were 35-40 you would totally be my BF, BUT".......and then shyte happened, so now he teases me that He wasn't old enough to be my BF so he made himself my husband instead as a way to get around my silly rule.

Good luck and welcome to love shack !

March 1, 2013

Any even anecdotal facts in here, or maybe your dad can come post? Prolly not right?

Lived in your city by the way for six years. My experiences there were no different.

Arent your so called facts anecdotal as well? My point was that my father has practiced a lot longer and seen a lot more than you have. Hes seen some bad crap too. So spare me the dismissive attitude.

I know exactly two women out of the thousand or so I know well enough to know who claimed real, legit spousal abuse. Both in divorces. One... -one- was probably legit. The other one dated a friend and turned out to be a nasty, violent alcoholic. Met her ex eventually, he was neither nasty nor violent. The damage he supposedly did bashing holes in the walls of their house? She did it.

So one lying female negates all the other real cases of reported and unreported violence. Guess women in the middle ast arent really abused since people like you dont see it. But people like my father have seen it. Or maybe as I said before...lots of abuse against women and kids goes unreported.

No it doesn't. As stated previously, there simply aren't as many legit cases per capita as our entertainment, news, and most importantly the big f word that doesn't have four letters lead us to believe.

Explain the Catholic Church scandals. Wide spread abuse...but the powers that be swept it way under the rug. How about Jerry Sandusky? You think hes the only guy out there who almost got away with sexually abusing MANY kids? You need to grow up dude. Ive met people who work with abused people daily and its not just this small insignificant thing thats media driven. Your ignorance is really sad.

And I've learned to identify the first sentence as exactly the kind of feminist snowjob it is.

And yes, I have dated many women who cited to past abuse. The last one, was at her brother's house, and she and he had a somewhat antagonistic, strange relationship. While alone, he was singing her faults. "She didn't tell you that line about uncle x or that BF of mom's getting in her pants did she? Never happened, she tells that crap to all her BFs."

Should I go on and list more?

Again, because you date liars, it means other people have had their family members, friends, or gfs all lie to them? Get over yourself dude.

Should I go on?

March 1, 2013

Was hoping you would post, as your experience is very topical and a POV we see less than we should when these topics come up. That said, I still think OP's interest is a bad bet and she should try to focus on other options. The reason for this is that she -talks- NSA, but is clearly forming an emotional attachment and walking into something labelled NSA when such an attachment has formed is risky for anyone's feelings. She hasn't been back to the thread, so hopefully she got what she was looking for here.

March 1, 2013

Arent your so called facts anecdotal as well?

That was the point, you don't even offer firsthand anecdotes, just references to your daddy? and his unexpressed anecdotes? Yet elsewhere here you have demanded peer reviewed proof from me over and over ad nausea?

Bring your daddy here to post all his experience... your daddy sez... OMG that's one line of argument I've never seen before on the net, even here on logicshack. What else does your daddy say? I'm all ears.

Explain the Catholic Church scandals. Wide spread abuse...but the powers that be swept it way under the rug. How about Jerry Sandusky?

Hey man I don't doubt there are pedophiles, predators what have you out there in the bad ole world, and that particular .01% of the population do really bad things to innocent victims who don't deserve it. Put all 10,000 of em -under- the jail I say, so the other 239,990,000 of us can feel safer! On that, you, daddy and I can likely agree.

March 2, 2013

All the predator talk never seems to come up when the man in question is younger. That's special protective treatment for women because of gender, and it isn't "equal" in the least.

Do you think the risks taken by men and women are equal? And why are you so jealous of protective advice?

No, I'm talking about the protective and misandric elements in certain posts in this thread, and you know that full well.

This forum is for advice. People are giving her advice, to the best of their knowledge. Because avoiding unnecessary pain is sometimes good. Do you want protective advice on how to not get hurt emotionally? You are welcome to it also.

...Those factors are wholly irrelevant to OP and OP's situation of contemplating having NSA sex with this guy. And if they aren't irrelevant, they go without saying.

These factors are relevent because we have evolved to be cautious because of them. Our brains often make us feel pain, instinctively, when a romantic endeavor doesn't work out. Secondly, just pointing it out, there are 7 billion people for a reason.

Equivalent, yet with much more offensive gender negative content, to saying, "Well OP's probably a dumb, easy lay due to contemplating NSA sex with this guy, women who do that kind of thing are whores, will whore it up with lots of dudes in time, so what's the harm of adding one more to the list?"

No, I wasn't being sarcastic. He can play around. My objection to this man is that he in a workplace but being touchy-touchy and talking about rolling around in the woods with boys. I would be uncomfortable with a man or WOMAN in the workplace going there. It's a tad inappropriate.

Neither the above nor the predator talk are in any way appropriate to OP's post.

My experience: look before you leap. One can't afford, in dating, to give somebody the benefit of the doubt and sweep red flags under the rug. He may be Mr. Right of course. Just verify it first. My personal advice.

And as far as the predator in the bushes? sure he's out there, about 5% of the time he's cried about he's actually there. That's an awful lot of unwarranted wailing and wolf-crying though, as offensive and misadric as abuse hysteria culture is. When the guy sends her pictures of his dick on her phone or asks for a pair of her panties, then let the predator howling begin. Until then, though, it's offensive, unnecessary, irrational and unwarranted.

I am sorry if you have been unjustly demonized at any point.

March 2, 2013

Thank you, everyone, for your responses.

So, we have NO idea from what you posted ( not your fault, sounds like you don't know either:) whether this guy LIKES, likes you, or is just a friendly pal type.

yes, I really don't know, hence why I came to this forum which I didn't know you couldn't delete posts from btw lol >.> ... I liked your allusion to a troupe- thought it was very fitting since everyone has their moments with each other during each given shift. Even though what I posted were the more flirtatious experiences (but what I now am leaning to thinking of as just more playfulness), they have spanned across what's now been a couple of months.

"The reason for this is that she -talks- NSA, but is clearly forming an emotional attachment and walking into something labelled NSA when such an attachment has formed is risky for anyone's feelings. She hasn't been back to the thread, so hopefully she got what she was looking for here."

The attachment has been starting to form :/ but I know how debased it is since I really don't know the guy. I can remember one night when we had had minimal contact and seeing him fixing another girl's (23, going through a divorce, has a kid) collar and at another point scratching her back or something in front of me; I did feel a little jealousy/longing.

A few people on here agreed that soon after consummating I would be ignored and treated like one of the dudes, where as one of my friends thought he might actually act more overt at work. I don't know, I've heard it all, but they don't seem to match up with what I've seen from him.

Earlier today, one of my day's off, I was called into work way last minute but didn't show up. I just took a walk to one of the two 7/11's in my town and look who I see but him checking out at the register lol, I was thrown super off guard to say the least. He had been called in too but actually had plans. I asked him if he had a minute and we walked outside 'cause I was concerned about not having gone in. He was saying I shouldn't feel bad, and upon more concern from my side about not expecting to see anyone from work, that he wouldn't tell. I was so super shy and responding lamely to simple small talk. He had to go to someone's house to do a job so it was quick (I felt like he made it so though) but he was just asking me a few things like what I was up to ("staying out of trouble?" *nod* "I don't believe that), where I was staying now (and he knows this family fairly well), if I had a phone yet, and if I'd talked to my mom. It was nice to hear him say that a lot of the women in this town just like to gossip (what else is new though) 'cause some of their talk has really affected my personal life and even my job. When he asked if I had a phone I was going on something or other about having a 'fake' number, (I have a temporary google voice number) my words were so jumbled -_-, and he was just poking fun at that and said "well, if I ever get a call from a fake number I'll know it's you" LOL. As I started to walk back inside he said that we'll catch up and asked if I was working tomorrow night.

i couldn't help but be happy my walk home and way more at ease than if I just saw him at work tomorrow night since it's been a week or so since i last saw him. I've already started thinking of things to talk about with him and ask him tomorrow (if he has an extra bike I could use for example)...

I guess at this point I'll just walk down the middle and see where it goes...maybe I'm not capable of NSA sex but, correct me if I'm deluding myself, is realistically any sex capable of being NSA? I wouldn't want a relationship so the moments I fantasize about having with him, a night in or falling asleep together, just don't seem like they could really hurt me. I am naive though and maybe am not thinking of all the other little details that could be hurtful, like him being quick and rushed after the fact -- however, I'd try to prevent that having to happen just by you know, having other things to do, just being pleasant and taking it for what it is? I should have more things to do than be thinking about this/going on this forum but here I am . .

March 2, 2013

I am naive though and maybe am not thinking of all the other little details that could be hurtful, like him being quick and rushed after the fact -- however, I'd try to prevent that having to happen just by you know, having other things to do, just being pleasant and taking it for what it is? I should have more things to do than be thinking about this/going on this forum but here I am . .

i don't even know why I said that last part ("being pleasant" wtf??)...

in a way I feel like I could be the more inappropriate seeming one just because I don't have the right wall up probably. One day when he was taking a break to eat between his double he was walking towards one side of the kitchen and I was following close behind because I needed to get a tray, and upon grabbing the tray he says, "I thought you were following me" with some lacking expression. that made me feel annoying :/, but that was the same day as when he teased me about spilling and touched me for a second. That was the first and only time he's really been touchy with me except for a couple times in the beginning when he was behind me and just put his hands on my shoulders when he needed to walk by. One of my guy friends had said be wary of that or I'll turn into just a toy at work, but another said I was looking too much into it because it is just a friendly gesture when you're in close quarters.

March 2, 2013

I'm condemning the man, yep. And I believe the OP thinks she's kind of clever too.

If I've said it once, I've said it a zillion times... I've worked around all men my entire adult life. I've BEEN the OP (not having NSA sex with co-workers)... but having men flirt like this guy is.

Things haven't changed all that much in the workplace, to be honest.

She'll be treated like the office punch bowl... everyone takes a dip or tries to... He'll be some stud for bangin the 20 something.

May not be true... but that is what the co-workers will be thinking... maybe even the boss too (man or woman). I've witnessed a zillion times. Happens every day.

So, go ahead OP. Learn the hard way. I imagine there might be a snowballs chance in hell that the rest of us are full of shyte.

Not likely though.

March 2, 2013

She'll be treated like the office punch bowl... everyone takes a dip or tries to... He'll be some stud for bangin the 20 something.

So, go ahead OP. Learn the hard way. I imagine there might be a snowballs chance in hell that the rest of us are full of shyte.

Not likely though.

I appreciate the honesty. If I thought anyone at work would find out I wouldn't go through with it though.

March 2, 2013

OP,

You're hurting now ... you're probably scared at work because it's a new job and you want to learn to become good at it so you can keep it, as you just got kicked out of your house.

And your father died.

I am truly sorry.

Of course, you're looking for an older man right now.

But, honey, I'd be careful.

Do you have any good friends to lean on during this tough period?

March 2, 2013

OP,

You're hurting now ... you're probably scared at work because it's a new job and you want to learn to become good at it so you can keep it, as you just got kicked out of your house.

And your father died.

I am truly sorry.

Of course, you're looking for an older man right now.

But, honey, I'd be careful.

Do you have any good friends to lean on during this tough period?

Thank you. I've seemed to embody a lot of fear lately in how I go about things sometimes :/ to the point of people probably being able to sense it. I do have good friends here thankfully <3 one whose parents' basement I'm staying in at the moment. She sort of said more or less to go for it about this situation by the way *Shrug*. Yeah, I should be careful and have more self-control, even in how I think too - I don't want to feel used or easy... his attention feels so good though :X. but that's the catch isn't it...

I am interested in people my own age too! I recently met a guy through my friend who's 21, and I'm looking forward to getting to know him better/seeing what comes out of it!

Edited March 2, 2013 by amaste

March 2, 2013

I'm part wary and skeptical, maybe a little grossed out about it all/myself?, but also very curious about the situation. it doesn't help that he's *very attractive to me. I ended up texting him when I got home before starting with "hey, it's ____ on my 'fake' number (lol)." *eyeroll* then going on to talk about work related things. i know he senses my attraction to him, it's been obvious from moment 1 when I first met him, and also later on in that meeting when he sat next to me and I acted super tense. At the end of the very brief texting conversation he asked when I worked next even though I thought we established that we both worked tomorrow night earlier... told him I worked a double and he replies with, "Good luck, c U @ 3:30. Let me know if U need anything. Peace" did he ask just to have an in to say 'lmk'?

March 2, 2013

probably looking too much into it and am too enthusiastic about any potential >.>/ he could really just be being nice! !! idk. BTW he;s not married and doesn't have kids

Edited March 2, 2013 by amaste

March 2, 2013

She's moving this along just as much as he is. He hasn't even done anything and he's being castigated. Even if they do hookup, they're both adults and she's well past being a naive minor. This guy is just doing what guys do, being fun and flirty, throwing out nets and seeing what he can catch. That IS the dating game that women perpetuate and he's just playing it. That's the only game men have to play until women start proactively joining in the chase.

This is part of the small town dynamic where it's not as taboo. There are not as many people/options, so small town guys hit on everyone and leave it up to the women to reject or accept. If she was my daughter, my concern wouldn't be so much the age difference, but who this guy is being a small town server at 40+ y/o. I know this kind of guy, I personally don't like the type, but I'm not going to condemn him as immoral.

To say he'll just hit and quit isn't fair. There's an equal chance he'll feel very lucky to have an attractive young woman which will lead to real care and appreciation for her. This isn't likely to be a long lasting relationship but even temporary ones can be meaningful and fulfilling.

March 2, 2013

That was the point, you don't even offer firsthand anecdotes, just references to your daddy? and his unexpressed anecdotes? Yet elsewhere here you have demanded peer reviewed proof from me over and over ad nausea?

Bring your daddy here to post all his experience... your daddy sez... OMG that's one line of argument I've never seen before on the net, even here on logicshack. What else does your daddy say? I'm all ears.

The point is its anecdotal experience vs anecdotal experience. First hand anecdotes doesnt change that, or are you that slow?

Hey man I don't doubt there are pedophiles, predators what have you out there in the bad ole world, and that particular .01% of the population do really bad things to innocent victims who don't deserve it. Put all 10,000 of em -under- the jail I say, so the other 239,990,000 of us can feel safer! On that, you, daddy and I can likely agree.

You miss the point. There are more bad people out there than you let on. And you still never truly responded to my point about victims who dont turn their abusers in, or my point about people who protect abusers. Penn State and the Catholic Church have done this. You think they are the only cases?

March 3, 2013

I appreciate the honesty. If I thought anyone at work would find out I wouldn't go through with it though.

Ok... do you really believe the guy is going to keep his mouth shut? The guy who gets bonus points for bangin' the 20 something?

Think about it...

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