want to leave

[catb]

I have been married to my husband for 19 yrs. Somewhere in that 19 years we drifted very far apart. He grew distant and obsessed with money. I asked him what i could do to help- hed say nothing. I asked him if it was me making him soooooo sad- hed say no. I asked him to get help-he never did. I come from a long line of married for lifers if you will- i decided that when my youngest was in college- i would travel with my work, fill my life with hobbies. Then i met sunshine. we work together- first he made me laugh, we got to be work friends- breaks together, lunch maybe- then i realized i couldnt wait to see him everyday. I felt like i was in a cold dark place and he lifted me up and out into the sun. two years later we are still having an affair. I dont love my husband- maybe i never really did-he knows about the om- totally changed his ways, falls over backwards for me NOW. Im a commited person-before i got into this affair, i closed the door on my marriage- i can't open that door again- i love the om and he loves me.

 

Reading this i sound like a cold hearted *****, im really not. I have two children that mean more to me than life, hurting them stops me from leaving. The om wants a life with me- wants me to leave- i want to- its so hard for me to tell my h its over.

any thought , words of wisdom, help

[overseas2004]

Just do it... YOu only have one life and what a waste if you spend it in a loveless marriage. Besides your kids are in college you said? They are not going to be spending their adult life with you. ITs time you did something for yourself. Just do it...

[catb]

Thaks for your reply-my oldest child is a freshman in college-just dropped her off last week. My youngest is 13. I know I need to do this - trying to find the best way to do it with the least trauma is my problem. My h has found me with the om 3 times. I even told him i loved the om, he's in such denial- he thinks if he just keeps trying this will all go away. My h is a good man, i do care for him-after 22years of dating and marriage-you become part of one another. But i have no passion for him and i truely believe that when that dies u can never get it back.

[Tracy]

No words of wisdom, really. More like words of experience. I had an affair in my marriage, and my XH and I are currently trying to reconcile.

 

The other man is definitely clouding your judgement. Regardless of how things were in your marriage, the presence of another man alters those memories. And, it is so much more detrimental when a woman has an affair in a marriage. It is so much more than sexual, it is emotional. A man can fill his need for sexual fulfillment, then detach from that relationship and give his wife a fair shot at salvaging the marriage. You are right, we (women) shut the door to the previous person (our H), and we let the new person in (other man). This really doesn't give our H a fair shot at anything....even if he deserves it and things could work and be better if we weren't obsessing over someone else.

 

You may feel justified for straying from your marriage, but I believe there is not justification. And, now that someone else is involved, you may never know if your marriage could have been saved. You probably know what you have to do now...you sound like you've already made up your mind. You shouldn't have false dillusions that it will be easy, or even better with someone else. You shouldn't leave for someone else. You should leave when you are ready to say "I would rather be by myself than to remain in this marriage". Because, that could be a likely scenario.

[Ladyjane14]

Not true that you can't get the passion back. After 21 years of marriage, my H and I have found ours again. We were living an emotional divorce for years before that. The key to it is total forgiveness for every transgression. Not easy to wipe the slate after 2 decades, but it was that or split.

 

When you let go of resentment, you can SEE the other person again in a way that you haven't seen him for years. It takes daily dedication, and usually at least some counseling with a therapist you can both agree on.

 

I'm not sure why you haven't left him already, or why he would want you to stay knowing that your feelings are with someone else. Usually when a person is still there, it means that some part of them still WANTs to be. You can't explore that while you're playing with someone else.

[Tracy]

Not true that you can't get the passion back.

LJ14--I am very interested in this. And, it seems to be part of catb's problem as well.

 

Did both you and your husband have to forgive each other for transgressions, and learn to let go of resentment. Or, was it mostly you who had to let go and was able to recover lost passion? I ask because as my H and I are trying to reconcile, I find that I am the one who is having a hard time recovering passion for him. He has always wanted me and even though I had an affair, he is still the one who wants me. I cannot learn to feel anything other than brotherly, fatherly type of love for him. I am sure this is in part due to the emotional connection I built with the "other man". However, I can honestly say that I never felt for him what he says he felt for me. And, I think that most of what he says he feels, is really just him fulfilling his sexual needs. Part of our problem is that I have always felt that he is somewhat "emotionally immature". He says he feels intimate and passionate towards me, but that is by his standards. I think my standards are somewhat different.

 

ANYWAY----was it both of you who had to regain those feelings, or you, or him?

[Duggan]

Remember you have to live with you choice . When you live with the OM you might find it's not as good as it looked . And if the OM is having an afair with you how could you trust him what is he doing when your not around ? You really need to think this over . Alot of men who cheat with some one will go on to cheat again .

[catb]

thanks for the great input- I dont feel justified in what I did. I feel a tremendous amount of guilt, shame amd heartache over breaking my vows and my commitment. If i could go back i would do things very very differently-i would have given my h the choice-we get help or we are thru. Things are always so much clearer after the fact. I tried so hard to make things work for many lonely years-when i took my relaisionship with my om to the next level i felt nothing but saddness and loneliness in my marriage. When my h found out about my om we went to counseling-the counselor told me then that if this was going to work i would have to cut all ties to the om. I said i would, but never did. Selfishly i felt i had been so unfufilled for so long-no damn it i was not going to give up the om-sure now my h is ready to make all these changes when he realizes hes losing me !!! Why did it take that? I realize now i should have let my om go- maybe then i would have known whether or not there was anything to save. I also agree with u that leaving should be solely based on the demise of my marriage not another man. Im 43 years old ,i have no dillusions about the fact that i may be alone when all is said and done. Im ok with that. Even if my h and i could work things out i dont think i can ever forgive myself for hurting him so badly. if i stay with him i have to look into those sad eyes everyday-he deserves better.

[Ladyjane14]

Tracy,

 

Sorry I took so long in getting back to you. In answer to your question, yes, it takes both.

 

To make a long story short, about 6 months ago I cought my H in several internet affairs. No actual "in-person" sex, but I can't say that I wasn't devastated. I was really kind of shocked to find that he still had the ability to hurt me at all, our marriage was just that dead.

 

Anyway, I saw a lawyer before I even confronted him. It was during that confrontation that all of the barriers fell away. He was actually in a more empty and vulnerable place than I was! He had been dealing with depression, medical problems, and one whopper of a mid-life crisis as it turns out! I had been raising to kids, running a house, and working full time.

 

My priorities were like a lot of women, just get through the day as best you can. His needs had been left at the bottom of my list, and at this point I was so harried in the day-to-day thet I couldn't even have identified MY needs.

 

The weird thing was that he had been telling me specificly for YEARS what he needed. The trouble was that he was SHOUTING them! I couldn't hear that. We had become adversarial on almost every issue. The one that mattered the most to him was sex. He was only getting the obligatory kind. Afterall, why would I want to do THAT when he was being such an a-hole all the time!

 

What I had to accept though, is that sex means something different to him. I can swim but that don't make me a fish! I can't understand what it is to be a man, because I'm a woman. My rejection of him sexually, made him feel unloved. Unlovable. I can cook his meals, wash his socks, and put in a twice monthly appearance in the bedroom, but he won't feel LOVED unless he's sexually DESIRED.

 

Once that happened, he's like the genie of the lamp, just doing everything he can to make my wishes come true. And I find that he's still this wonderfully terrific, exciting man! And then it's just a matter of keeping those resentments on the day-to-day from creeping back in. That's the part that takes daily work! You have to check your priorities every day.

 

It helped that we got counseling, and we're tackling the medical issues. I can't recommend enough though the power of forgiveness. It's the most liberating feeling in the world. It has to be mutual though, and it's not enough to forgive the other person. You have to forgive yourself too.

 

 

catb,

 

It may not be too late. But you have to want it more than anything.

[TMCM]

Im 43 years old ,i have no dillusions about the fact that i may be alone when all is said and done. Im ok with that.

 

If this is this is true then why not consider the idea of separating from your H AND the OM for a period of 6 months to a year? A separation where there would be no contact with either of them. At the end of that period you'd be in a much better position to objectively make a decision for or against staying married to your H.

[Tracy]

Once that happened, he's like the genie of the lamp, just doing everything he can to make my wishes come true.

....you made him feel sexually desired.

 

But, how did you get to the point that you wanted him intimately/emotionally....so that he would really feel desired? My H and I were not married nearly as long as you have been, but our core issues sound much like yours. We just can't get to the point that we can meet each other's needs. It's like debating the question "which came first, the chicken or the egg?".

 

I can't make him feel desirable because he doesn't reach out to me emotionally/intimately because I don't make him feel desirable because....well, you get the picture. I will think about your comment on forgiveness, though. Maybe we haven't TRULY let go of some things, and that would change someone's feelings, so they could make the first step. Then, the next person will be motivated to make a step. Then, the next....well, you get the picture.

 

Thanks for the insight LJ14.

[Ladyjane14]

"But, how did you get to the point that you wanted him intimately/emotionally....so that he would really feel desired? "

 

I think it was a matter of seeing him emotionally vulnerable to me.

 

That and the fact that I really did love him when I married him. When the masks come off, you can see the person that you agreed to spend the rest of your life with once upon a time. You have to drop every bit of the baggage though. And it HAS to be mutual.

 

It's a leap of faith. You have to be as vulnerable to him as he is to you. You have to trust him not to hurt you anymore. Trust yourself that you can take it and bounce back if it happens. You have to work everyday not to hurt him, to add to his life without subtracting from it. You have to expect that he will do the same. You have to get into a constant awareness of one another.

 

The catalyst for us though, is that it really was over. We had nothing else to lose and everything to gain at that point. It couldn't hurt anymore than it already did. And we both realized that going our separate ways was going to be intolerable.

 

It's not easy to put yourself out there. Even harder to remind yourself to do it EVERY day. But man, the payoff is great!

[Quilly]

How? How do you let go of something and someone that makes you feel more than you ever imagined was possible? And even if you're forced to do so, how can you get back feelings for a spouse when you know that what you did once feel for them doesn't come close to what you felt with that other person? Why is admitting that we might have married the wrong person left only as the last resort? Is it wrong to want more in a marriage? I applaud and envy those that were fortunate enough to have found the right person and to have been able to make it work and keep it working... sometimes it just seems so impossible.

 

catb -- if you know that you're marriage isn't going to work then move foward with getting a divorce. You're only hurting your husband more by sticking around and giving him false hope. Good luck.

[TMCM]

Originally posted by Quilly

How? How do you let go of something and someone that makes you feel more than you ever imagined was possible?

 

By hitting rock bottom first, living with Mr Wonderful, and finally opening up your eyes that it was nothing more than a fantasy that gave way to reality [picking up his potty challenged underwear, him leaving you alone and coming home late after being with 'da boys', and finding out that he is having an affair with another woman].

 

And even if you're forced to do so, how can you get back feelings for a spouse when you know that what you did once feel for them doesn't come close to what you felt with that other person?

 

By realizing that feelings are fickle and that solely relying on them, you will be forever chasing castles in the air.

 

Why is admitting that we might have married the wrong person left only as the last resort? Is it wrong to want more in a marriage?

 

Let me answer that question with another. Why is it that this realization seldom happens before an affair develops?

 

The fact of the matter is that 'I found my soul mate and I'm in love like I have never been before' is used as a justification for the unjustifiable. But the unfaithful never accepts this truth until he/she becomes the betrayed partner in his/her 'soul mate' relationship.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how great our capacity for self deception really is.

[Quilly]

The downside to these forums is the difficulty in presenting all of the information (without writing an entire book that no one would bother reading)... therefore people are left to make assumptions and fall back on stereotypical summarizations. I may not be a genius or hold a PhD in psychology, but I do have a clue.

 

Not all affairs are lived out in a fantasy world destined to come crashing down over dirty underwear.

 

Having an affair does not make you an automatic repeat offender; some people can live and learn.

 

Falling in love with someone else does not make you incapable of thinking beyond your feelings.

 

And yes, it would be nice if everyone could figure out their marital problems without resorting to affairs, but just because you do doesn't make your reasons any less valid.

 

I am by no means trying to justify having an affair nor would I advocate for anyone to do so. For a small few it may result in a happy ending... but for the rest it's a painful mess. The deception comes when others think they can know what another is experiencing without ever having walked in their shoes.

[TMCM]

Originally posted by Quilly

The deception comes when others think they can know what another is experiencing without ever having walked in their shoes.

 

Practically everyone that has had an affair beleives that their relationship is the real deal but eventually they discover that they were only deceiving themselves. Case in point is that the vast majority of married OM never divorced their BW and marry their OW. THIS IS A FACT and as the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said:

 

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts"

[meanon]

There are no right or wrong answers as to when it is right to call time on a failing marriage. Most need to know for sure that there is no hope for recovery, in order to live with the guilt. You make some good points, TMCM, but there are no absolutes. People are more complex than that. Most (not all) affairs do not last when marriages end. That's why it's important to know you would be happier alone.

 

But, how did you get to the point that you wanted him intimately/emotionally....so that he would really feel desired?

 

Tracy, I was reading a book by Stephen Covey recently and he talked about how to regain lost love. My summary of his theory:

 

Often we think of love as a noun. The absence of the feeling in turn prevents us feeling another's love even if we know it's there. Love is also a verb. If there is a chance for the feeling to return it will happen in the tending to another's needs, in making sacrifices for them, in protecting them. Think of the feeling of love we have for our children. Parents don't always feel instant love for a child when it's born, yet they feel it soon enough when they care for the child's needs.

 

I'm talking here of emotional intimacy, Tracy. Lack of physical intimacy is usually just a symptom of the emotional problems.

[moonbeam]

Tracy wrote "I can't make him feel desirable because he doesn't reach out to me emotionally/intimately because I don't make him feel desirable because....well, you get the picture. I will think about your comment on forgiveness, though. Maybe we haven't TRULY let go of some things, and that would change someone's feelings, so they could make the first step. Then, the next person will be motivated to make a step. Then, the next....well, you get the picture."

 

Tracy you could be me! I've been married w/child for almost 10 years and during the last 4 or 5 years at least - maybe more - this has been the situation. I'm not sure any longer that I desired him very much in the first place. But of course I thought I did so at the time.

 

I'm working very hard to connect with my husband - and getting him to connect w me. I'm getting so tired and have tears in my eyes thinking about it as I post. Sometimes I just long to quit and be my own women. To have a chance to connect with a new man (I'm 40). Just to have fun and feel the old sexual healing again! Feeling very envious of you, catb, with your Sunshine. I certainly won't condemn what you are doing.

[Tracy]

TMCM - thanks for your comments. Personally, I think some were a little harsh on you. Yes, there are no absolutes for everyone. However, I think your views layed a strong foundation that everyone should follow when they are trying to decide whether or not their marriage is over. I really do believe that we to easily discard the commitment of marriage today (I can say that because I am guilty). Marriage at least deserves serious soul searching to KNOW it's over. And, your comment about affairs usually not working out says alot. The statistics are "10% of relationships that began as affairs are successful".

 

Meanon - thanks again for your comments. You def have a way with words. I think I've known this for a while, but I haven't been able to make myself do it. Hopefully your words will inspire me to get off my a$$. I've tried everything....and the thing that is missing is action. Before anything can begin, I need to put my hopes into action by tending to his needs, etc. If there is a chance, he will reciprocate, then I will reciprocate, then he....

[Tracy]

I can hear your pain in your post. And, def can relate. I've gone through all extremes and feel like I've done everything to regain passion. I also wonder if it was there to begin with. Have to be careful of that though, because I know the mind can mess with you and try many things to justify what you want at the time. I do know that I never felt passion for him that I felt for a particular person while we were separated. Even so, I think that had something to do with my vulnerability at the time, and the circumstances in general. So, I'm not positive that would last, and then I'd be back to square one.

 

Don't be envious of Catb. She is not only contemplating whether or not her marriage is dead, she has to weigh in how her feelings for someone else factors into the equation. TRUST ME---if you are having doubts about your marriage, the best and easiest thing is to deal with it. Then, if it's really over, find someone else. I don't condemn her, because I've been there. And, I hope that things work out and Sunshine is the real deal. More than that, I hope she is able to decide the fate of her marriage without it depending on Sunshine. Because that is the only way either route will work.

[moonbeam]

I know you are right, Tracy. It is just v hard sometimes, that's all. You wrote: "Before anything can begin, I need to put my hopes into action by tending to his needs, etc. If there is a chance, he will reciprocate, then I will reciprocate, then he...." I must do the same, if only because I really, really want a stable and loving family life for our child to grow up in. But I feel I have been tending to his needs and he has not reciprocated. And he thinks the same, I know, only the opposite. (That he has tended to my needs & I have not reciprocated.) We can't seem to get out of this downward spiral or chicken and eggs situation. So I'm browsing these kinds of boards to try to get a clue..

[Tracy]

I offer this advice, and like you, know that's how it should be. But, IT IS hard. And, I can't seem to get there either. Just stuck in the same spiral you seem to be in. I'm not sure if we'll find answers here, but it has really helped me to talk about it.

[TMCM]

Tracy

 

Thank you for your kind words.

 

It is not my intention to sound pompous and judgemental [even though some people may beleive otherwise ] with regards to this topic and others related to infidelity. I truly beleive that ALL of us are capable of being unfaithful given the right set of circumstances.

 

Let me share something with you and the other folks here. From my mid teens to my mid thirties I was an alcoholic [i still am, only a recovering one]. When I drank I never felt so alive and so passionate about my life, but there was a terrible price I paid for that 'passion' and even though I've been sober for 10 years, I'm still paying that price with regards to my health.

 

It doesn't matter if a person is addicted to alcohol, drugs or to another person because passion achieved at the expense of ones body and/or soul will only lead to ones eventual self destruction.

[Tracy]

It doesn't matter if a person is addicted to alcohol, drugs or to another person because passion achieved at the expense of ones body and/or soul will only lead to ones eventual self destruction.

 

I can't remember if this even addresses anything catb needed to know....but is SO TRUE. I found passion before my H and I divorced...with another man. IT WAS an addition and was self destructive. Part of me knew it at the time, but I didn't want to believe it. It altered all of my decisions and rational thinking. It's been about a year, and I still miss that passion. But, I am (almost ) to the point that I can say I'm better off with that kind of passion.

 

Oh yeah! Maybe this can relate to catb and sunshine somehow.....

[catb]

Thank you all for sharing with me your thoughts, feelings,facts and advice. I have read each and every passage with great interest as this internet conversation has unfolded.

 

Moonbeam-I envy you for still having the chance to connect and maybe salvage something with your h. If I have one regret it is that I didnt fight for my relationship-I gave up- he didnt care so I stopped Caring. Love like any living dynamic thing changes with time but DIES with neglect. Dont bring another person into this situ,its the cowards way out- it doesnt fix anything it just makes things messier. There is a great book-SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO-the authors have gone thru just what we are going thru. It has helped me greatly.

 

TMCM_Thanks for the reality check- Straight talk is never a bad thing- I dont want to hear only from people that agree with me. You made alot of great points. I live in the real world- I know that my om is not perfec, maybe well be together forever and maybe we wont. Ill deal with what ever comes. I really didnt understand your point on the passon thing. I have never felt anything even close to the passion that I feel when I am with my om-but its not just physical-the sex is unbelievableI must admit-but we connect on so many levels-the passion runs thru all our experiences. Are you saying that thats a bad thing-Ive lost my soul because of it- I worked a 12 hour night shift last night so maybe im missing something.(HA HA).

 

Tracey and Quilly- I think we have walked and are walking the same path in life. Tracey I hope you find a way to rekindle the passion with your h- It seems to me that you had great passion with an om-what happened with that how and why did you end it- how are you getting over that lose. You sound like a good person who is struggling with the same demons Iam.

 

Ladyjane-You are amazing-I wish Icould find the passion again with my h-the problem is im not sure it was ever there.

 

Thank you all.