GF in denial - going slowly mad

[damnedifido]

Hi.

 

(My story is well documented in previous threads. Yes, I'm a dumper - Boo, hiss!)

 

The short-ish version. We've been sleeping apart since before Xmas (my decision). Shortly after Xmas we had "the talk" (well, we've had several - this was the latest!). I said I felt the status quo - living together, sleeping apart - could not go on and the only possible way forward was/is to break (up).

 

She bemoaned that (over 6 sex-free years) I'd "trained" myself to not have feelings for her (self-preservation, if you will - I had to be there to support her in other life matters) and if I could get past this "block" and have romantic feelings we could be very happy together. (But, having failed to light the spark "again" through months of sex therapy it's pretty clear this isn't going to happen. Not on my side anyway. Not as the "spark" was always pretty low to begin with)

 

I said felt/feel that the "right" decision can only be made by spending time apart as our (understandably emotional) thoughts are currently clouded by our feelings of/fear of losing (safe) companionship. If we genuinely cannot bear being apart after several months then we'll know what decision to make and reunite. If we can (or, more likely, one of us can) it will be the right call in the long-term.

 

I said we would have to think about "ground rules" for any break such as whether would be open to others during this time to which she replied "I do not consider myself single!". (Though, I do have to ask, if we are living separate lives apart how are we anything other than single?).

 

We discussed how we needed to plan for her moving out (of my house). That there was no immediate rush, and maybe I would have an "epiphany" during this as it (the idea of losing each other) all became very real. (Who knows?) But, that she had to begin searching accommodation (which I would initially pay rent for). We mentioned her moving out within weeks rather than days.

 

We also discussed having to break this to our friends and (to her) parents (which she dreads).

 

Anyway. Several weeks on...

 

She has told no-one. When our house-cleaner comes every two weeks she (my GF) removes all evidence I am sleeping in the other room. She calls me "darling" and insists on us eating meals together as usual (and this does make practical sense - so, I'm equally at fault here).

 

Last Friday I had a social occasion (on my own) where I knew I'd be asked about our relationship (when are we getting married, having kids, etc.) and where I really didn't want to lie anymore. I asked her what she was happy for me to say and she said she would be mortified if these "newer" friends found out before our oldest friends. I asked if she'd told anyone to which she went silent and replied "I miss you.". (To which I replied "I know you do.")

 

It's literally making me unwell. I haven't said anything to my own friends yet as I'm waiting to see acceptance on her part. Also, with our networks (and, let's face it, Facebook), if I tell my friends many of her friends are bound to find out before she tells them. And that's not fair.

 

So, given I can't walk out myself, how can I snap her out of this denial? My fear is she'd rather be living with me for the next 20 yrs+ in a passionless friendship - but one in which she still gets to be with me - than lose me altogether. I would have thought most women would find the prospect of never again receiving romantic/physical attention in a relationship untenable. But, she seems to be the exception.

 

Any advice greatly received. Especially advice which doesn't mean I have to be a real b**tard. (Besides, I'm not sure I have it in me to be that - I care for her too much. A friend who I confided in accused me of being "too kind").

 

I just have to find a way to move things on. For both our sakes. (Even if she can't see this).

 

Thanks.

[Els]

Are you two not open at all to working the sex issues out? Talking about it? Couples counseling? Care to elaborate on the root causes?

 

What is holding both of you back from going your own amicable ways if you have tried all of that, it's been 6 years with zero sex (or even intimacy I presume?), you don't have a kid and you're not married?

[damnedifido]

Hi. Thanks for your comments.

 

It was 7 months of sex therapy which ended in Feb 2012. The therapy began after 5 years of zero (sexual) intimacy. The goal of the therapy was to feel (mutual) sexual desire for each other. It ended in Feb after 3 "successes". I felt no elation after the "first" time (after 5 years!) which I think speaks volumes. I knew deep down I was doing this for her happiness and I simply wasn't feeling any natural desire. In fact, I was more conscious of the feelings which were absent rather than any which were present - and therefore also a ton of guilt. I couldn't continue leading her on, to think everything was sorting itself out when it wasn't. We agreed with the therapist that counselling had gone as far as it could and now it was up to us to resolve things, one way or the other. We had sex one more time in Jun 2012. (On a weekend break, initiated by her). I knew then my own feelings (or lack thereof) hadn't changed.

 

I came to realise (maybe I knew already, deep down) that the lack of sex was/is a symptom and solving the cause went far deeper. If you've read other posts you'll know that within the 5 year "dry" spell I developed feelings for a friend. This never went past an EA but it allowed me to come clean to myself about the personality types I'm physically (and intellectually) turned on by and, put simply, my GF doesn't fit the profile. I made a huge mistake early on by developing very strong (more like paternal) feelings for her of care and protection, as opposed to romantic love/passion.

 

My GF is the "fluffy bunny" type (and not in a Playboy way). She is the most gentle and kind person I know, but also emotionally (and sexually) immature and I know I haven't helped by "keeping" her (i.e paying for nearly everything). Some would describe her as a bit "wet" and I'm afraid this is also how I see her now. There is nothing about her intellectually which makes me desire her. Many would envy me from her physicality (tall, slender), but I only see the person I question whether I want to spend the rest of my life with? In all honesty I can't see it.

 

Whereas the type I know deep down (and from the EA) I'm turned on by are strong, independent women. Looking at past "crushes" this has been a constant and I was foolish to try to work against this (knowingly) in the case of my GF.

 

Put another way - my GF needs a strong man (which she arguably has/had). I need a strong woman (I feel I have (still, at mid-30s) an immature girl). There isn't a lot of middle ground there.

 

Of course, what's niggling at me is that the above could merely be trite justification and the reality far simpler - my GF is the only person I've ever slept with (I know - we're freaks!) and it scares me to imagine never being with anyone else (given it was never particularly great between us). That I've never had the mind-blowing passionate abandon we all deserve at least once.

 

(Then again, this is probably coupled with the former).

 

Whether one or both are the reason I believe it leads to the same conclusion: I will never be happy being only ever in this relationship. As I have reached a milestone and have not yet given up the idea of having a family I feel I have no choice but to call it a day. It would also be the biggest crime to deprive her of similar by letting things drag on.

 

Wow! That's the first time I've ever admitted that in writing. I hope hat's a good sign.

[Els]

Hmm, okay, so the issues go way beyond just sex, in that case?

 

If the sex were not an issue (ie she was open to trying to reach middle ground in that aspect), would that change your mind about the R? How was your sex life prior to the dry spell? Have you spoken about any of what you have just said, with her?

 

I think you should do that - show her this post if you must - and give her one more chance to try. If she doesn't want to, or the attempt fails miserably, you'll at least know you've both done what you can and are simply incompatible. A 6+ year R is nothing to scoff at - plenty of marriages don't even last that long. But sometimes you really do have to cut your losses, especially before children and such come into the mix.

[damnedifido]

What's holding "us" back is that my GF won't accept my decision. I own the house, pay all our bills, etc. I don't doubt for a second that my GF loves me unconditionally (I would say she is too dependent, in fact), but she must also be terrified at the prospect of losing the current material quality of life I'm fortunate enough to be able to provide.

 

I have been advised not to leave myself and so I have to "force" the issue as best as I can. When you have so much affection for someone it's very tough to give them their marching orders.

[Els]

What's holding "us" back is that my GF won't accept my decision. I own the house, pay all our bills, etc. I don't doubt for a second that my GF loves me unconditionally (I would say she is too dependent, in fact), but she must also be terrified at the prospect of losing the current material quality of life I'm fortunate enough to be able to provide.

 

I have been advised not to leave myself and so I have to "force" the issue as best as I can. When you have so much affection for someone it's very tough to give them their marching orders.

 

Whoops, I posted before the second part of your reply came in.

 

If this is genuinely all that is holding you back and you have zero hope or desire left in fixing your R, give her a 6-month notice or something so she can get her stuff in order and not end up homeless and starving all of a sudden.

[damnedifido]

Our relationship is 10.5 yrs, not 6. The sex was never brilliant, even at the very beginning. (Hey, we were both latecomers/newbies. What realistically were the chances?!).

[damnedifido]

It's not the only thing, no. If I felt there was a chance I could be happy spending my life with my GF I would jump at it - as it would mean I don't feel like I constantly do.

 

I just want to feel happy (in the relationship) - which I don't. Without natural romantic love at home I know I will be depriving myself of something everyone has a right to (I think) and the risk of finding this elsewhere will most likely ultimately be too great. I can't risk bringing that kind of hurt upon her.

[CarrieT]

I've read your old threads and I'm curious - what is stopping you from asking her (or TELLING her) that the relationship is over and you want her to move out?

[Els]

Mind if I re-ask these?

 

 

If the sex were not an issue (ie she was open to trying to reach middle ground in that aspect), would that change your mind about the R? Have you spoken about any of what you have just said, with her?

 

Or do you feel it's completely unfixable regardless of what you or she does?

[damnedifido]

I've read your old threads and I'm curious - what is stopping you from asking her (or TELLING her) that the relationship is over and you want her to move out?

 

I guess because, although all logic shouts out that the r'ship is over, the consequence of this actually being the case - I.e. starting over again at 42 - still terrifies me. It's one thing to know in your mind the r'ship has run it's course. It's quite another to accept in your heart the finality of this.

 

I'm also very wary (internally) as to how much of this might really be driven by residual feelings for my EA (who I see (unavoidably) every week and who totally ignores/avoids me - heartbreaking). It's very difficult to be brutally logical about my relationship when I know I'm inevitably also hanging onto a glimmer of hope regarding my EA. (That things will be fine between us once my GF and I break up. In reality, they almost certainly won't!).

 

The EA situation has muddied the water (and my thinking) a great deal - I know that. I have to keep reminding myself that things were very poor (and declining) long before I met my EA. It shouldn't change my conclusion (through counselling) that my GF is simply not of the personality type I am physically attracted to, nor that I can (or should) live like this for any longer.

 

But, to answer your question, it creates just sufficient niggling doubts to make this less than a black and white decision.

[damnedifido]

Mind if I re-ask these?

 

Or do you feel it's completely unfixable regardless of what you or she does?

 

The problem is that the lack of physicality comes down to her personality type. I am simply not attracted to her in that way because of her inherent character. She is the sort you want to cuddle/protect, not the sort you wish to be, um, animalistic with. And I guess I've concluded I need to be with someone passionate and independent rather than gentle and dependent.

 

I don't see how such a genuine character change will ever be possible. It hasn't happened in 10+ yrs - in fact, she's become more, not less, dependent.

[Els]

The problem is that the lack of physicality comes down to her personality type. I am simply not attracted to her in that way because of her inherent character. She is the sort you want to cuddle/protect, not the sort you wish to be, um, animalistic with. And I guess I've concluded I need to be with someone passionate and independent rather than gentle and dependent.

 

I don't see how such a genuine character change will ever be possible. It hasn't happened in 10+ yrs - in fact, she's become more, not less, dependent.

 

Ah, okay. My apologies - I wrongly assumed that you'd wanted to have sex with her, but she wasn't interested.

 

In this case I really think you'd be best off leaving. Give her some notice so you won't feel cruel. Things may or may not get better with your EA, but there are other women in this world. And you'll never meet your match unless you're single.

[magnoliasoutherly]

Breaking up is hard. Been there! After 23 years of marriage.

 

First off, the sex. Sex is VERY important in a marriage. Obviously she has issues about it and obviously you need it. It's that simple. Don't guilt yourself about that part and she must come to terms with the fact that she has her own problem.

 

Next is her. It sounds to me that she's not so much in denial, as two things.

 

1. She hopes to win you over with her personality alone.
   
2. She is ashamed that she cannot have sex and is worried that you'll tell people about it.
   

My guess is that #2 is what is bothering her most.

 

Ripping off the band-aid is most often the best way to get through it. I know you care about her and I know she cares about you, but you've made your decision and that's the end of it.

 

You're not a b**tard. You would only be that if you were sleeping around already. Never assume you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

In the end, you cannot fix her. You cannot make her accept anything. It's time that you let her take responsibility for herself and you for yourself.

 

Hugs. IM me if you ever need to talk.

[CarrieT]

I guess because, although all logic shouts out that the r'ship is over, the consequence of this actually being the case - I.e. starting over again at 42 - still terrifies me. It's one thing to know in your mind the r'ship has run it's course. It's quite another to accept in your heart the finality of this.

I can understand this. I started over at 43 and now - at 49 - am finally in a relationship that I feel will last the rest of of my life. But you have to reach rock bottom to know that you have the strength to start over. And, at 42, you are barely half over with your life!

 

I'm also very wary (internally) as to how much of this might really be driven by residual feelings for my EA (who I see (unavoidably) every week and who totally ignores/avoids me - heartbreaking). It's very difficult to be brutally logical about my relationship when I know I'm inevitably also hanging onto a glimmer of hope regarding my EA. (That things will be fine between us once my GF and I break up. In reality, they almost certainly won't!).

But with your GF gone, you heart will be begin to heal from BOTH broken relationships and you can be a whole person who is emotionally and physically available to a new love, that you have yet to meet.

 

The EA situation has muddied the water (and my thinking) a great deal - I know that. I have to keep reminding myself that things were very poor (and declining) long before I met my EA. It shouldn't change my conclusion (through counselling) that my GF is simply not of the personality type I am physically attracted to, nor that I can (or should) live like this for any longer.

You are waffling. The EA has not muddied the water. Your thinking has. Separate the two -- it is what is in your mind about the EA and the hope for something better.

 

But, to answer your question, it creates just sufficient niggling doubts to make this less than a black and white decision.

Keep coming here. We will keep niggling you to help you find the strength to do what you know needs to be done.

[magnoliasoutherly]

I.e. starting over again at 42 - still terrifies me.

 

I can understand this. I started over at 43 and now - at 49 - am finally in a relationship that I feel will last the rest of of my life.

 

Yowzah, totally missed this.

 

I'm 45 and after 23 years of a miserable marriage, I am happy at last. It was scary though, I will give you that. However, use that as an awakening tool. Are you hanging on because you're afraid this is it for you?

 

Now here's the lucky part for you (not so much for us women though)... men are still attractive all the way up into their 60s. Us women are on borrowed time after 40. That's great for you though because you have plenty of time left. Then of course there are the few that find love after 60.

 

While I'm on that, I've a side story to share. I'm a nurse and this 75-year-old couple that were my patients, were like newlyweds. I said something about that and she giggled, saying that they were newlyweds, even though they had been sweethearts in high school. They had both been married before and their spouses died after many years of marriage. They ran into each other at a restaurant and one thing led to another so that they are now married. They were SO happy together.

 

So as you can see, new love and happiness can happen at any point in our lives. Besides, a 40-something man will have no trouble finding a woman. Ever.

[flitzanu]

maybe you should actually dump her. giving her the option of staying as long as she wants, communicating daily, being civil and being friends isn't dumping someone, that's just not having sex. which from what you said, that's what you were anyway was sexless roommates.

 

so glazed over, the whole "breakup" relationship sounds no different than the real relationship except sleeping in different beds.

[damnedifido]

communicating daily, being civil and being friends isn't dumping someone, that's just not having sex. which from what you said, that's what you were anyway was sexless roommates.

 

so glazed over, the whole "breakup" relationship sounds no different than the real relationship except sleeping in different beds.

 

I suspect you think you were/are giving out "tough love", but I think you're spot on and I'd reached this conclusion myself already.

 

As you say, how things are now just isn't sufficiently different from how things were in the months/years before. If the r'ship to her was never about the physical side and was more about being with me, well, she still has that, albeit in diluted form. (We no longer hug, cuddle and I know she misses this - she has said so).

 

To be fair (to me), I didn't leave things entirely open-ended - I did say we had to agree a time-frame for her leaving. But, this is clearly not something she's actually accepted. (Nor, will, I think, without me being a lot harsher).

[flitzanu]

not tough love, just honesty. but at least you recognize you need to be a little more direct, or yes, this will perpetuate and never change.

[damnedifido]

Hi All.

 

A quick update.

 

I (re-)raised the topic this morning, stating that it had been a month and that it would be very easy for (my) guilt to turn to resentment (which I didn't want).

 

Her response: "I hoped you'd change your mind".

 

I was also (it seems) not as clear as I thought on who would be moving out during the break.

 

Her: "Start looking for a place for who?"

Me: "You."

Her: "Your asking me to leave my home!"

 

(Cue long silence followed by many tears).

 

What a mess.

[Els]

Sorry to hear that. You gotta do what you gotta do. This isn't just a blip in your R. You've been unhappy for YEARS, you aren't married, and you don't have a kid. Leaving now is really the right thing to do.

 

If you want to give yourself peace of mind and be kind, give her a date to move out and give her a 6 month allowance or something so she can get herself another place.

[Minneloa]

I relate to your thread and sympathize with your situation. It is very difficult to extricate oneself from a close relationship, even if the romantic/sexual aspect has evaporated or was never the basis for the bond.

 

That said, I support you in moving forward with your plan. From what you have written, you want (and deserve) more from a partner.

 

Best wishes!

[Cathy80]

Of course she is in denial, you still live together. You need to move out so that this becomes a reality for her to allow her to eventually heal. She cannot do this with you around.