PhoenixRysing Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I just read through this great thread about women approaching men and it really has me wondering... Several of the women in the thread noted that they don't approach because they believe that men who aren't asking you out are likely not interested. Conversely, several of the men pointed out that they would be fine with women not approaching so long as she helped open the door to let them know she was interested. Meanwhile, every relationship I have ever had has been the result of me very directly asking out a man (typically after having been friends for quite some time). Each time, they said they thought about asking me out but thought that I was not interested in them. So it makes me wonder...what am I not doing right? How do you let a man know that it is OK, or even welcome that he ask you out? I would love to be asked out by a man, but it's never happened. With my current crush, I have been going out of my way (I think) to let him know I am interested but then I always thought I had done so with my past lovers as well and somehow they were still clueless. So I have to assume that I am doing something very wrong. I guess I am trying to figure out the fine line between a man not biting because he simply isn't interested, and a man not asking me out because he doesn't get clear enough signs from me that all systems are go. So men, what does a woman do that makes you feel empowered to ask her out? Women, what do you do to let a man know you're interested (other than doing what I have always done and just ask them out)?
chrisftw Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 the problem here is the fact that they fear rejection. so really anything you do or say won't be able to fix that. its about confidence in the man. and this is especially true because you said you're friends with them for quite some time. so obviously maybe they had a clue but then figured well crap. i've waited so long i'm probably just a friend to her. a lot of that is probably going through their heads. irregaurdless of heavy flirting, smiles, open conversation willingness to 'go out to the bar'. etc..
Author PhoenixRysing Posted February 24, 2013 Author Posted February 24, 2013 the problem here is the fact that they fear rejection. so really anything you do or say won't be able to fix that. its about confidence in the man. and this is especially true because you said you're friends with them for quite some time. so obviously maybe they had a clue but then figured well crap. i've waited so long i'm probably just a friend to her. a lot of that is probably going through their heads. irregaurdless of heavy flirting, smiles, open conversation willingness to 'go out to the bar'. etc.. I suppose that is definitely possible. But if a woman is responsive to you, laughs with you, is openly flirty (touching your hands and arms when she talks), looks you in the eyes, gives extended goodbye hugs...all of which I do, and he still isn't registering the attraction... What am I missing? With the current crush, I have done all of those things and nada. Given all that and he still hasn't asked me out should I give up? I have a hard time with this because all of my exes got the same treatment and they missed it too. My ex-husband told me he thought I was just a really warm and friendly person. He assumed, even though he got the vibe, that it was wishful thinking on his part. :Face Palm:
chrisftw Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I suppose that is definitely possible. But if a woman is responsive to you, laughs with you, is openly flirty (touching your hands and arms when she talks), looks you in the eyes, gives extended goodbye hugs...all of which I do, and he still isn't registering the attraction... What am I missing? With the current crush, I have done all of those things and nada. Given all that and he still hasn't asked me out should I give up? I have a hard time with this because all of my exes got the same treatment and they missed it too. My ex-husband told me he thought I was just a really warm and friendly person. He assumed, even though he got the vibe, that it was wishful thinking on his part. :Face Palm: i get that a lot from all my female friends. so either i'm this handsome playboy kinda guy which i SERIOUSLY doubt i am. or they're just being flirty and friendly. see the problem with flirting is everybody does it. and there's an extremely fine line when it comes to innocent flirting and i like you flirting. personally i would NEVER flirt with somebody i wasn't interested in. but some women do that. and its well known amongst men all over the world. but regardless what i'm saying here. again it comes down to confidence. and self esteem. it always will.
IAmRobot Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 How to let a man know you're into him? Early on when getting to know him, put slight touches here and there. slight punch to the arm, slight tapping of the arm. Maybe pretend to take something off his face. Putting yourself out there is not bad. As long as you don't act like an emotional wreck. Most guys do not get told every day they're handsome or strong or good (like most girls do), so putting a compliment here and there, while flirting can work. There needs to be a doubt in their mind however. And they need to overcome that and seek you too. Otherwise you might be just "what they settle for" and not "what they want" 1
Author PhoenixRysing Posted February 24, 2013 Author Posted February 24, 2013 i get that a lot from all my female friends. so either i'm this handsome playboy kinda guy which i SERIOUSLY doubt i am. or they're just being flirty and friendly. see the problem with flirting is everybody does it. and there's an extremely fine line when it comes to innocent flirting and i like you flirting. personally i would NEVER flirt with somebody i wasn't interested in. but some women do that. and its well known amongst men all over the world. but regardless what i'm saying here. again it comes down to confidence. and self esteem. it always will. I hear ya. I also tend to go after more reserved intellectual types so it is definitely an added issue to try and pull them out of their shells. I guess I just want to know how to get past their insecurities and really let them know that I am beyond friendly flirting and into "ask me out and I will say yes" territory! How to let a man know you're into him? Early on when getting to know him, put slight touches here and there. slight punch to the arm, slight tapping of the arm. Maybe pretend to take something off his face. Putting yourself out there is not bad. As long as you don't act like an emotional wreck. Most guys do not get told every day they're handsome or strong or good (like most girls do), so putting a compliment here and there, while flirting can work. There needs to be a doubt in their mind however. And they need to overcome that and seek you too. Otherwise you might be just "what they settle for" and not "what they want" I do all of what you mentioned in the first paragraph. I tend to offer compliments pretty freely as well, but usually not in a traditionally sexual manner. I was about to extrapolate on that and just realized that I probably don't offer compliments as freely as I thought. I compliment my friends, my coworkers, my family...but I get a bit shy with the men I like and tend to hold back on complimenting them for fear of being obvious. Interestingly, now that I think about it, I may well compliment everyone around me except the man I think the most highly of...LOL!!! Something to consider the next time I see him anyway! Thanks.
MsSmurf Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I don't ask men out, but I tend to opt for directness when it comes to making it clear I'm interested in them. There's a guy I'm interested in that I've only gone out with once largely because our free time doesn't always overlap. So just before the Presidents Day weekend I caught up with him and our conversation went like this: Me: "Hey aren't you forgetting something?" Him: confused look "I don't think so" Me: "We're off work on Monday, so you're supposed to ask me out" Him: big grin "I like that you just tell me what I'm supposed to do" Me: "If I didn't I'd be waiting forever" Him: "Yeah and I'm sorry about that. I am interested, things are just crazy and this weekend I have to go out of town." Me: "No big deal, I get that things come up." Him: "Things should settle down soon." Ok so I didn't secure a 2nd date here, but I made it very clear that I'm interested in one and told him when I was free so there was no guess work on his end. Other things I do to take away the guess work is just tell a guy I find him interesting, point out our shared interests, mention things going on in town that would be fun to do together, and make it clear that I'm single and looking.
Esoteric Elf Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 So men, what does a woman do that makes you feel empowered to ask her out? This is hypothetical, but I have a feeling that if I were certain a girl is interested in me, I might gather up enough courage to ask her out actually...might. Then again, I might think that she wants something, since I apparently am an undesirable person through and through. Of course, no girl has ever been interested in me, so that problem is inconsiderable.
Sanitarium Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 I suppose that is definitely possible. But if a woman is responsive to you, laughs with you, is openly flirty (touching your hands and arms when she talks), looks you in the eyes, gives extended goodbye hugs...all of which I do, and he still isn't registering the attraction... What am I missing? Women tend to be very social/friendly/outgoing so most of those things mean nothing to most guys. Most guys have been rejected many times by women who gave them positive signs like that so they have learned that it means nothing Really the response to this thread is there is nothing you can do. Either ask them out yourself or wait for a guy who will make all the moves
Imported Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 I had a girl get naked in front of me. I had my head down tying my boot laces and she must have started disrobing at that time. I only looked up and saw when she shouted angerly at another guy that walked in on us that she was changing. I still wasn't sure at that time lol. It went through my head for a while that maybe she didn't know I was there? But she was right in front of me in complete view. But maybe she didn't know I was there? But I was right in front of her in plain view. Hmm....maybe she didn't know I was there? And so on. The other guy went away and I turned my back on her to give her some privacy to put clothes on and told her I wasn't looking. She answered back that she didn't mind if I looked. I still wasn't sure . Did she just say that? Nah, I probably heard wrong. No, pretty sure she did just say that. But maybe I heard wrong. No, it was pretty clear, that was exactly what she said. Seriously, I thought this over for a long time. Long enough that it became irrelevant and too late. More than one girl has walked away from me muttering that 'guys are stupid' and thats only the ones I actually heard. For me back then, I am not sure you could really do anything other than flat out approach me and that would just freak me out and I'd reject because I wouldn't know what else to do. Now, just smile at me till I catch you. Look away/down shyly. If I like you, I will come up to you and start as easy to do a conversation as possible. Be positive and encouraging to me. I am going to start getting into your personal space. Don't back off. Honestly, a little too buzzed right now to properly answer. Will see if I can give you better tips another time.
Sanitarium Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 I hear ya. I also tend to go after more reserved intellectual types so it is definitely an added issue to try and pull them out of their shells. I guess I just want to know how to get past their insecurities and really let them know that I am beyond friendly flirting and into "ask me out and I will say yes" territory! Blame women for this issue Men don't flirt with women they're not interested in dating. Women do it all the time - this is why men don't take "signs of interest" seriously. We don't want to get rejected 1
Author PhoenixRysing Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Wow...so basically one woman responded who effectively does what I do and asks men out (tells them to ask her out) and the fellows responded along the same lines that flirting is no longer sufficient to indicate interest. So I basically need a sign that says "Come do me stud" tattooed on my forehead if I ever want a guy to make the first move. Meanwhile we have another thread discussing why women only date confident men and several men voicing their frustrations across the forum that women are only interested in confident "alpha" men. Does anyone else see the irony here? There are women, like me, who really dig the shy and reserved type, but never get asked out and pretty much have to throw ourselves at the man to get the first date. We sit at home on the weekends wondering why the man we are interested in does not seem to care if we live or die - and then he likely comes on here and complains that woman just aren't into him. Except maybe just maybe we are...and we think we're broadcasting it from the rooftops. So basically - I have to keep doing what I am doing and being blatant with my interest because so many men are completely oblivious to when a woman really is intrigued by them. I guess I will have to ask him out...or tell him to ask me out - as usual. Was just hoping that once it could be the other way around and hoping to figure out how to let him know he was safe to proceed without the tattoo. Guys really? There has never been a time when a gal was interested in you, she flirted, you got the hint, and then you asked her out and she said yes? Not once? So to sum up: We are hoping you'll approach and you are complaining that we're not interested which is why you don't approach. I think I see why we are all on loveshack instead of out having a snog. 6
Sanitarium Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Wow...so basically one woman responded who effectively does what I do and asks men out (tells them to ask her out) and the fellows responded along the same lines that flirting is no longer sufficient to indicate interest. So I basically need a sign that says "Come do me stud" tattooed on my forehead if I ever want a guy to make the first move. Meanwhile we have another thread discussing why women only date confident men and several men voicing their frustrations across the forum that women are only interested in confident "alpha" men. Does anyone else see the irony here? There are women, like me, who really dig the shy and reserved type, but never get asked out and pretty much have to throw ourselves at the man to get the first date. We sit at home on the weekends wondering why the man we are interested in does not seem to care if we live or die - and then he likely comes on here and complains that woman just aren't into him. Except maybe just maybe we are...and we think we're broadcasting it from the rooftops. So basically - I have to keep doing what I am doing and being blatant with my interest because so many men are completely oblivious to when a woman really is intrigued by them. I guess I will have to ask him out...or tell him to ask me out - as usual. Was just hoping that once it could be the other way around and hoping to figure out how to let him know he was safe to proceed without the tattoo. Guys really? There has never been a time when a gal was interested in you, she flirted, you got the hint, and then you asked her out and she said yes? Not once? So to sum up: We are hoping you'll approach and you are complaining that we're not interested which is why you don't approach. I think I see why we are all on loveshack instead of out having a snog. Read my previous post - women have caused this problem, not men Men don't ever flirt with somebody unless they are attracted to them. Women basically flirt for sport and will flirt with anybody. That's why no man takes those signs seriously. We know we are just as likely to get rejected Nothing you can do about this - either find men who are willing to do all the initiating or continue to do what you have done (asking out the shy/reserved type men)
Author PhoenixRysing Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Read my previous post - women have caused this problem, not men Men don't ever flirt with somebody unless they are attracted to them. Women basically flirt for sport and will flirt with anybody. That's why no man takes those signs seriously. We know we are just as likely to get rejected Nothing you can do about this - either find men who are willing to do all the initiating or continue to do what you have done (asking out the shy/reserved type men) In my experience men actually do this as well. Since I have always been the pursuer, this means I too have been rejected by the sport flirt. I was hoping that since we so often misinterpret each others signals, that perhaps there was something key that I could do to help my crush out a bit more. As I said, my ex just thought I was friendly, when I thought I was obvious. I acknowledge that there can be thin line between flirting and friendly banter. I am looking for how I might up the ante a bit so that this gentlemen knows he is clear to proceed. I want him to know he is unique in my eyes and that I would date him if he asked. I also want him to make the first move since I have never had that experience before. I understand that interpreting a clear signal is tough and approaching when you aren't sure is even harder - since I do it - and will do it in this case if need be. I don't exactly love the risk of rejection either! Mind you, if he doesn't get the hint soon - I will take the risk anyway.
MsSmurf Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Wow...so basically one woman responded who effectively does what I do and asks men out (tells them to ask her out) and the fellows responded along the same lines that flirting is no longer sufficient to indicate interest. So I basically need a sign that says "Come do me stud" tattooed on my forehead if I ever want a guy to make the first move. Meanwhile we have another thread discussing why women only date confident men and several men voicing their frustrations across the forum that women are only interested in confident "alpha" men. Does anyone else see the irony here? There are women, like me, who really dig the shy and reserved type, but never get asked out and pretty much have to throw ourselves at the man to get the first date. We sit at home on the weekends wondering why the man we are interested in does not seem to care if we live or die - and then he likely comes on here and complains that woman just aren't into him. Except maybe just maybe we are...and we think we're broadcasting it from the rooftops. So basically - I have to keep doing what I am doing and being blatant with my interest because so many men are completely oblivious to when a woman really is intrigued by them. I guess I will have to ask him out...or tell him to ask me out - as usual. Was just hoping that once it could be the other way around and hoping to figure out how to let him know he was safe to proceed without the tattoo. Guys really? There has never been a time when a gal was interested in you, she flirted, you got the hint, and then you asked her out and she said yes? Not once? So to sum up: We are hoping you'll approach and you are complaining that we're not interested which is why you don't approach. I think I see why we are all on loveshack instead of out having a snog. Now that explains it. When I first read your post I couldn't understand why you weren't getting anywhere when I don't have that problem even though I'm not asking guys out, but clearly giving them the green light to ask me out. I still flirt, but being direct about my interest is a step beyond that is necessary to make sure a guy clearly gets it. What's different is that I don't bother with shy or reserved men. I used to be really into that type, but even with my direct approach I was getting nowhere, they never approach, and I got tired of spending weekends home alone. Now I avoid shy or reserved guys like the plague. If one of them does get past my filters they rarely make it past one date because they get exhausted trying to be outgoing and confident when often they aren't that way naturally. I use my direct approach on guys that aren't shy and reserved, but they aren't necessarily alphas either, and the only time it doesn't work is when a guy is genuinely busy or when he's already taken. I say they aren't alphas because my experience with alpha males is they approach before I've even really decided I'm interested in them and they tend to be pushy and overly confident. That doesn't work for me. I prefer a guy I've seen around a few times or communicated with a few times via online dating and established a rapport. So my advice to you Phoenix is to start branching out when it comes to the men you find attractive. You don't have to rule out shy and reserved guys completely if you don't want to, but expanding your pool of men might create more of a balance of having men ask you out and you asking men out.
crude Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Everyone just assumes only shy men or men who aren't interested don't ask women out. Actually there's a large group of men who are sick and tired of the dumb games and rules that they're supposed to play by, so they simply say the hell with women, if you're interested, have the balls to tell me and ask me out for a change, or else I can spend some time with my male friends. 1
Sanitarium Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Everyone just assumes only shy men or men who aren't interested don't ask women out. Actually there's a large group of men who are sick and tired of the dumb games and rules that they're supposed to play by, so they simply say the hell with women, if you're interested, have the balls to tell me and ask me out for a change, or else I can spend some time with my male friends. This sounds good in theory but it doesn't work in real life. 99% of men are too controlled by their penis to do what you're talking about
MsSmurf Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 In my experience men actually do this as well. Since I have always been the pursuer, this means I too have been rejected by the sport flirt. I was hoping that since we so often misinterpret each others signals, that perhaps there was something key that I could do to help my crush out a bit more. As I said, my ex just thought I was friendly, when I thought I was obvious. I acknowledge that there can be thin line between flirting and friendly banter. I am looking for how I might up the ante a bit so that this gentlemen knows he is clear to proceed. I want him to know he is unique in my eyes and that I would date him if he asked. I also want him to make the first move since I have never had that experience before. I understand that interpreting a clear signal is tough and approaching when you aren't sure is even harder - since I do it - and will do it in this case if need be. I don't exactly love the risk of rejection either! Mind you, if he doesn't get the hint soon - I will take the risk anyway. This is why I do everything but ask a man out. I'll flirt. I'll compliment. I'll tell him I'm single and looking. I'll tell him I'm interested in him. I'll tell him we'd have a good time doing xyz on whatever day and time I'm free. Under no circumstances will I ask him out. I've upped the ante enough and if he really doesn't get it after all of that then I'm not going to bother helping him any further. I'll move on to the guy who gets it and asks me out. If I need to lay this kind of ground for dates beyond the first one that is fine, but laying the ground work for him to lead and then telling him how much I like that sets a tone for our relationship that I like. He isn't clueless about what I'm thinking and he knows I like when he leads then we continue to go out and see where things go. 2
Author PhoenixRysing Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Now that explains it. When I first read your post I couldn't understand why you weren't getting anywhere when I don't have that problem even though I'm not asking guys out, but clearly giving them the green light to ask me out. I still flirt, but being direct about my interest is a step beyond that is necessary to make sure a guy clearly gets it. What's different is that I don't bother with shy or reserved men. I used to be really into that type, but even with my direct approach I was getting nowhere, they never approach, and I got tired of spending weekends home alone. Now I avoid shy or reserved guys like the plague. If one of them does get past my filters they rarely make it past one date because they get exhausted trying to be outgoing and confident when often they aren't that way naturally. I use my direct approach on guys that aren't shy and reserved, but they aren't necessarily alphas either, and the only time it doesn't work is when a guy is genuinely busy or when he's already taken. I say they aren't alphas because my experience with alpha males is they approach before I've even really decided I'm interested in them and they tend to be pushy and overly confident. That doesn't work for me. I prefer a guy I've seen around a few times or communicated with a few times via online dating and established a rapport. So my advice to you Phoenix is to start branching out when it comes to the men you find attractive. You don't have to rule out shy and reserved guys completely if you don't want to, but expanding your pool of men might create more of a balance of having men ask you out and you asking men out. Great points and I should clarify - while shy/reserved men are my tendency - they are not the only ones on my radar. My ex was completely extroverted and never met a stranger. It was not uncommon to find him in the center of a circle telling a story to 5 people he just met. Others are not shy or reserved when it comes to work or whatever we have in common that has caused us to meet, but just don't ask me out. For all I know they just aren't interested. My experience has told me that mostly when I get the vibe they are interested, I am right - what I am trying to do is better convey that they are free to act on that I guess. I guess that is part of the conundrum for me. I am never sure if a guy is like my ex-husband and other former lovers (interested but not sure I am) or if he is ignoring my advances because he flat out isn't interested.
Sanitarium Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 This is why I do everything but ask a man out. I'll flirt. I'll compliment. I'll tell him I'm single and looking. I'll tell him I'm interested in him. I'll tell him we'd have a good time doing xyz on whatever day and time I'm free. Under no circumstances will I ask him out. I've upped the ante enough and if he really doesn't get it after all of that then I'm not going to bother helping him any further. I'll move on to the guy who gets it and asks me out. If I need to lay this kind of ground for dates beyond the first one that is fine, but laying the ground work for him to lead and then telling him how much I like that sets a tone for our relationship that I like. He isn't clueless about what I'm thinking and he knows I like when he leads then we continue to go out and see where things go. I just want to say that I don't find anything wrong with your approach. I think you do more than 99.9% of women do when it comes to showing signs of interest But I have to ask this, why do you feel the need to justify your fear of rejection with nonsense like "Under no circumstances will I ask him out. I've upped the ante enough and if he really doesn't get it after all of that then I'm not going to bother helping him any further". Just say "I hate rejection and I'm a woman so I should never have to face it. Men should face all the rejection because they're big and tough and they can handle it". I mean that's how you really feel, who are we fooling?
Author PhoenixRysing Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 This is why I do everything but ask a man out. I'll flirt. I'll compliment. I'll tell him I'm single and looking. I'll tell him I'm interested in him. I'll tell him we'd have a good time doing xyz on whatever day and time I'm free. Under no circumstances will I ask him out. I've upped the ante enough and if he really doesn't get it after all of that then I'm not going to bother helping him any further. I'll move on to the guy who gets it and asks me out. If I need to lay this kind of ground for dates beyond the first one that is fine, but laying the ground work for him to lead and then telling him how much I like that sets a tone for our relationship that I like. He isn't clueless about what I'm thinking and he knows I like when he leads then we continue to go out and see where things go. Yep, you are going just a tad step further than I do when I am first interested. Then finally I will bite the bullet and suggest they ask me out, or tell them about an event "we" should go to. Oddly, even then I have had men ask me while we are actually on the date, if it was, in fact a date. It sounds like you have the same MO that I do but you are bit more forward with your interest. I guess I will do the same!
ltjg45 Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Guys really? There has never been a time when a gal was interested in you, she flirted, you got the hint, and then you asked her out and she said yes? Not once? Flirted at me? Yeah. Flirted at me while showing actual interest? No. When I did step up, they tell me they was just playing or, when I don't approach, smile, and walk away, she and her friends laughs at me afterwards. I don't play these games anymore because I will end up being a victim and a joke at the end of the day. If I have interest in a female, I will tell her that directly. I expect the same from the female if she truly has interest in me.
Weezy1973 Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 I'm a shy and reserved guy, but I am also pretty aware of when a woman is interested in me. That being said, being shy and reserved, I am somewhat turned off by flirty women. I tend to like shy and reserved women - like attracts like. For me, the best way women have shown interest in me was making an effort to be near me and talk to me. I can't say just that alone makes me ask them out - sometimes I'm genuinely not interested - but for my three long term relationships, that's how it happened. They would make an effort to come talk to me/be near me and after awhile I asked them out. And as far as knowing if they're just not getting your signals or are not interested - it's impossible. Life is short though - take a risk.
Author PhoenixRysing Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Again - two more men basically telling me to just do what I've always done and ask him out. Seriously, I will. I was just hoping there was something I was missing. People still look at me askew when I tell them that a man has never asked me out. I thought perhaps I was doing something wrong in communicating my interest. As it turns out, it sounds like many of you wouldn't think it was all that odd that I always have to make the first move. Now I wonder why people give me the quizzical confused look when I mention that...and why so many men here have the impression that women get approached and ask out all the time.
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