Els Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 The thing is that there are a lot of men who are unattractive (not just in the physical sense). A lot more unattractive men than there are unattractive women. It's a fact. So, no one should blame women for having the misfortune of not being able to find a suitable partner. You could say it's the men's fault for being, in various ways, unattractive. But I'm not so sure I'd go that far. I'd say we've reached a point where the prevalence of unattractive males is nature telling us something. Exactly what is up to interpretation. Hmm, I'm a woman and I disagree with this. I think that there might be more physically unattractive men, yes, simply because fewer men than women are willing to put time and effort into their appearance, and in most societies men have a higher obesity rate. But unattractive personality-wise - that probably is about equal. I don't think gender affects how someone is in terms of personality, and I've met as many women who were horrible to deal with as men.
iKING Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 The thing is that there are a lot of men who are unattractive (not just in the physical sense). A lot more unattractive men than there are unattractive women. It's a fact. So, no one should blame women for having the misfortune of not being able to find a suitable partner. You could say it's the men's fault for being, in various ways, unattractive. But I'm not so sure I'd go that far. I'd say we've reached a point where the prevalence of unattractive males is nature telling us something. Exactly what is up to interpretation. Natural selection is a dying trend. This isn't Sparta anymore.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Natural selection is a dying trend. This isn't Sparta anymore. Well, for the overpopulation believers having 5-10% of the male population not reproduce is a pretty good thing. Thing is, I'm in that 5-10%.
truth_seeker Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I'm a single guy because I haven't met someone who is right for me and I'm right for them. There are MANY single people out there but they're just not right for each other. Expectations (looks, status, money) play a huge part of this, but also timing and luck can't be ignored. I've met in the last 6 months a couple of women I found to be very attractive and interested in dating but both have boyfriends. I've also met some women who are available but for the most part do not have their sh-t together. It's just a matter of meeting the ones I like being available.
iKING Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Well, for the overpopulation believers having 5-10% of the male population not reproduce is a pretty good thing. Thing is, I'm in that 5-10%. I'm right there with you brother. Granted I'm still in my 20s. In some older cultures only the most attractive, intelligent, well-off men were allowed to reproduce with a female counterpart of similar status. And if the offspring was anything less then sheer perfection, it was then killed or an out cast. Needless to say, this just isn't the case anymore.
SteveC80 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 The thing is that there are a lot of men who are unattractive (not just in the physical sense). A lot more unattractive men than there are unattractive women. It's a fact. So, no one should blame women for having the misfortune of not being able to find a suitable partner. You could say it's the men's fault for being, in various ways, unattractive. But I'm not so sure I'd go that far. I'd say we've reached a point where the prevalence of unattractive males is nature telling us something. Exactly what is up to interpretation. Dude you're problem is you put women on such a pedestal as infallible creatures that you dont deserve to be near unless youre some perfect male specimen. Get over women they are not that special most of em are highly flawed just like everyone else 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Dude you're problem is you put women on such a pedestal as infallible creatures that you dont deserve to be near unless youre some perfect male specimen. Get over women they are not that special most of em are highly flawed just like everyone else Perhaps. I don't feel that way though. I was in DC yesterday looking at some museum exhibits, and let me tell you, there were very many good looking (and probably intelligent) women in the city and on the Metro. Didn't look like too many flaws to me...
iKING Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Perhaps. I don't feel that way though. I was in DC yesterday looking at some museum exhibits, and let me tell you, there were very many good looking (and probably intelligent) women in the city and on the Metro. Didn't look like too many flaws to me... Looks can be deceiving, no one is perfect, or really even relatively close. The idea is to more or less find someone who is perfect for you with all of their flaws. We're all screwed up in our own special ways even if nobody wants to admit it. At a primal level, all humans are pretty much the same. We all want to be loved, we all want to avoid suffering. The way we've experienced dealing with those two essentials is what dictates how we conduct ourselves in human interactions. Remember, everybody poops.
SteveC80 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Perhaps. I don't feel that way though. I was in DC yesterday looking at some museum exhibits, and let me tell you, there were very many good looking (and probably intelligent) women in the city and on the Metro. Didn't look like too many flaws to me... So good looking=quality? im a pretty shallow person but i dont even believe that You need some sucess with some bat**** crazy women and it will open up your eyes on how flawed and crazy most women are
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 So good looking=quality? im a pretty shallow person but i dont even believe that You need some sucess with some bat**** crazy women and it will open up your eyes on how flawed and crazy most women are No, I was giving an example of what I saw out in the real world. Considering these women were at museums it's likely they were also intelligent. And from what I see about 85% of women are attractive or extremely attractive. So the point is, most women are not completely flawless. They are, however, nearly flawless.
SteveC80 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 No, I was giving an example of what I saw out in the real world. Considering these women were at museums it's likely they were also intelligent. And from what I see about 85% of women are attractive or extremely attractive. So the point is, most women are not completely flawless. They are, however, nearly flawless. I can telly ou have very little interaction with women on a real personal level otherwise youd be singing a different tune:laugh:
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I can telly ou have very little interaction with women on a real personal level otherwise youd be singing a different tune:laugh: Eh, I have a sister, and while I see things about her that I would consider flaws in myself, I also see that she can be very selective when it comes to who she dates. Same with other female friends I've had over the years. This tells me that "flaws" are subjective and relational to where you stand in the world. Point is, I do not feel like I am an equal to most women. Some, sure. But on average, no.
Els Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Eh, I have a sister, and while I see things about her that I would consider flaws in myself, I also see that she can be very selective when it comes to who she dates. Same with other female friends I've had over the years. This tells me that "flaws" are subjective and relational to where you stand in the world. Point is, I do not feel like I am an equal to most women. Some, sure. But on average, no. Can you not work on it? Men in general don't spend as much time on their appearance as women do, so you'll have a huge, huge edge over the competition if you spend even as much time as the average woman does. Work out, learn how to dress and get nice clothes, get a good haircut, practice talking to people and learn how to carry yourself.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Can you not work on it? Men in general don't spend as much time on their appearance as women do, so you'll have a huge, huge edge over the competition if you spend even as much time as the average woman does. Work out, learn how to dress and get nice clothes, get a good haircut, practice talking to people and learn how to carry yourself. -Work out: already do. In fact I look like this only white. -good haircut: not much you can do with a receding hairline. I'm strongly considering shaving it off but so far haven't had the guts to do it. -Nice clothes: I've heard about this, even started a thread about it. I understand the issue. I just don't like how I look in nice clothes and they're not comfortable to wear. Yes, those are excuses. But considering that I don't care if a woman dresses nicely or not, I don't see why it should be an issue. Perhaps I'm wrong though. -learning how to talk to people: talking to "people" is not an issue. Talking to "a cute girl" very much is.
Submisfit Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Uh, everyone DOES want a person who is what they consider to be THEIR 'perfect match'. Looking for a girl who satisfies all your requirements? (And yes, I know ALL of you have requirements, you'll say you don't, but a few questions later the truth pops up). Well, there you have it. You're looking for your 'perfect match'. "But what I want is much more common than what she wants!" you cry. Firstly, how do you know it's more common? What if her perfect match is just an employed, non-obese guy who takes care of her and makes her laugh? What if she is open to a much wider age range, or body shape range, or size range, than you are? Secondly, if what you want is so 'common' then why are you not getting it while other men are getting theirs? Time for some introspection. It's not that binary. My perfect match is: 18-27ish (I'm 22) Non smoker* Very intelligent* Fun to be around* Has chemistry with me* Nice to people, even those she doesn't know well* Interesting* Creative Success driven Politically liberal Socially conscious and active At least a little dorky Likes animals Okay with the idea of adopting or fostering as a means of having children (if she wants kids) A fellow food lover Easy to talk to On the same relationship timescale as me Approximately the same libido and bedroom interests as me A cuddler And probably a hell of a lot of other things that don't come to me off the top of my head. That's quite a list to make someone a "perfect" match for me, but those that I've marked with asterisks are the only things that are absolutely REQUIRED; anything that doesn't have an asterisk I'm willing to compromise on, though the more that there are, the weaker of a match she is for me. I'd date someone who didn't enjoy food, animals, and was conservative if the other things were there and it felt right, but she wouldn't meet my idea of perfect for those reasons. It's fatuous and illogical to say that we hold out for our idea of perfect just by virtue of the fact that we have an idea of perfect.
Els Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Well, I mean, you don't 'have' to do any of that - they're just standard suggestions because they help lots of people with their self-esteem. And it sounds to me like your self esteem is very much the issue here, not how you look, if you look like the link you mentioned.
Els Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 It's not that binary. My perfect match is: 18-27ish (I'm 22) Non smoker* Very intelligent* Fun to be around* Has chemistry with me* Nice to people, even those she doesn't know well* Interesting* Creative Success driven Politically liberal Socially conscious and active At least a little dorky Likes animals Okay with the idea of adopting or fostering as a means of having children (if she wants kids) A fellow food lover Easy to talk to On the same relationship timescale as me Approximately the same libido and bedroom interests as me A cuddler And probably a hell of a lot of other things that don't come to me off the top of my head. That's quite a list to make someone a "perfect" match for me, but those that I've marked with asterisks are the only things that are absolutely REQUIRED; anything that doesn't have an asterisk I'm willing to compromise on, though the more that there are, the weaker of a match she is for me. I'd date someone who didn't enjoy food, animals, and was conservative if the other things were there and it felt right, but she wouldn't meet my idea of perfect for those reasons. It's fatuous and illogical to say that we hold out for our idea of perfect just by virtue of the fact that we have an idea of perfect. I said 'perfect match', not 'perfect'. Someone who satisfies all of your requirements is a perfect match. To me, anyway. Then again, I've never made such an exhaustive and specific list as yours, of what I'd like in a partner. It sounds an awful lot like creating a template by which you measure someone against and give them points according to how many boxes they tick. Not my idea of love.
Submisfit Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 -Work out: already do. In fact I look like this only white. -good haircut: not much you can do with a receding hairline. I'm strongly considering shaving it off but so far haven't had the guts to do it. -Nice clothes: I've heard about this, even started a thread about it. I understand the issue. I just don't like how I look in nice clothes and they're not comfortable to wear. Yes, those are excuses. But considering that I don't care if a woman dresses nicely or not, I don't see why it should be an issue. Perhaps I'm wrong though. -learning how to talk to people: talking to "people" is not an issue. Talking to "a cute girl" very much is. Nice clothes are an indicator of wealth and status. Nice doesn't necessarily mean an oxford cloth button down every day, but it does mean not having holes in or stains on your clothing, and making sure that everything fits well. Your shirts also say a lot about your personality; if you were a girl, would you be interested in dating a 35 year old man wearing a Bart Simpson shirt? The worst thing you can do for a receding hairline is try to hide it. Everyone knows, and it makes you seem less confident. If you own your flaws, you'll have a lot more success, at least imo.
Submisfit Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I said 'perfect match', not 'perfect'. Someone who satisfies all of your requirements is a perfect match. To me, anyway. Then again, I've never made such an exhaustive and specific list as yours, of what I'd like in a partner. It sounds an awful lot like creating a template by which you measure someone against and give them points according to how many boxes they tick. Not my idea of love. For me, a "good match" and a "perfect match" mean different things. The word match itself implies that that they've met your requirements, so perfect must be used to qualify it further. Otherwise it's just redundant and misleading. I obviously don't go around with a checklist, but sitting at the computer for 3 minutes, those are the things that I come up with that are attractive to me. I'm sure that a woman who wants children negatively views a potential mate who expresses a desire not to have kids, but it doesn't mean that she has a running checklist in her head on which he just received poor marks.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Nice clothes are an indicator of wealth and status. Nice doesn't necessarily mean an oxford cloth button down every day, but it does mean not having holes in or stains on your clothing, and making sure that everything fits well. Your shirts also say a lot about your personality; if you were a girl, would you be interested in dating a 35 year old man wearing a Bart Simpson shirt? The worst thing you can do for a receding hairline is try to hide it. Everyone knows, and it makes you seem less confident. If you own your flaws, you'll have a lot more success, at least imo. I own one pair of jeans that have holes in them, and I only wear that pair when I'm doing housework or yard work or something because I don't mind them getting dirty. Occasionally I will wear a sports shirt (not a jersey unless I'm going to a game just a plane team logo shirt or something) but almost always I wear a pane colored shirt and a pair of jeans. What do you consider "hiding" a receding hairline?
Els Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 For me, a "good match" and a "perfect match" mean different things. The word match itself implies that that they've met your requirements, so perfect must be used to qualify it further. Otherwise it's just redundant and misleading. I obviously don't go around with a checklist, but sitting at the computer for 3 minutes, those are the things that I come up with that are attractive to me. I'm sure that a woman who wants children negatively views a potential mate who expresses a desire not to have kids, but it doesn't mean that she has a running checklist in her head on which he just received poor marks. Well, I've never heard anyone say 'good match', but I suppose if it makes a difference... My take on it is that the factors impacting attraction are useless to quantify, as attraction is something that just happens. Everything else is about how compatible our mindsets and long-term goals are and how the other person treats me in a relationship. Regardless, my initial post (that you quoted) still stands: My point was that the people complaining about single women having preferences are generally single men with preferences of their own.
Submisfit Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 I own one pair of jeans that have holes in them, and I only wear that pair when I'm doing housework or yard work or something because I don't mind them getting dirty. Occasionally I will wear a sports shirt (not a jersey unless I'm going to a game just a plane team logo shirt or something) but almost always I wear a pane colored shirt and a pair of jeans. What do you consider "hiding" a receding hairline? http://content5.videojug.com/48/48804bbf-a857-c82c-719e-ff0008c99426/how-to-cope-with-a-receding-hairline.WidePlayer.jpg Example given. How do your clothes fit?
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 http://content5.videojug.com/48/48804bbf-a857-c82c-719e-ff0008c99426/how-to-cope-with-a-receding-hairline.WidePlayer.jpg Example given. How do your clothes fit? Well enough I suppose. Not baggy but definitely not weird hipster skinny jeans either. As for the picture, I definitely don't wear my hair like that. I am working up the courage to shave my head though. Good idea, bad idea?
Submisfit Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Well, I've never heard anyone say 'good match', but I suppose if it makes a difference... My take on it is that the factors impacting attraction are useless to quantify, as attraction is something that just happens. Everything else is about how compatible our mindsets and long-term goals are and how the other person treats me in a relationship. Regardless, my initial post (that you quoted) still stands: My point was that the people complaining about single women having preferences are generally single men with preferences of their own. And my point that there's a difference between having preferences and refusal to compromise on the ones that are less important stands as well. I dunno, maybe the good match thing is regional? I can look at my phone RIGHT NOW and see a text from my sister saying that I should approach her friend Zoe because we'd be a "really good match" I'd say that we do have some control over who we're attracted to; obviously the heart will continue to want what it wants, but the attitude we adopt when meeting new people makes all the difference in the world. It's no coincidence that I didn't meet anyone that I thought was a strong match for myself in the year after a 5+ year relationship dissolved.
Submisfit Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Well enough I suppose. Not baggy but definitely not weird hipster skinny jeans either. As for the picture, I definitely don't wear my hair like that. I am working up the courage to shave my head though. Good idea, bad idea? That picture was the best example I saw on the first page of a google image search, but there are less obvious ways of doing it wrong. I can't tell you if shaving your head would be a good idea; someone who's better at gauging male attractiveness would probably be the one to ask. Whenever I want a new hairstyle, I go to a stylist with pictures of my hair and what it does at various lengths and say "you're the professional. Do whatever you think will work best for me, within bla bla bla parameter (eg. less than 15 minutes of work in the morning.)" You could also find an attractive celebrity that has a similar appearance to you and go in with a picture of their hair for reference.
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