Narcissist and affairs

[nofool4u]

If calling people names and making them out to be mad helps you understand your being cheated on then so be it. I have heard allsorts on here now too. No one in an affair could possibly be a normal person' date=' oh no, that can't be. No one could ever fall in love with someone else, no that could not be. No they are ALL selfish lying psychopaths who are out to manipulate and ruin people's lives. No one else is to blame, we just married a cheating lying psycho loony. No, he still loved me, he could never love anyone else it is impossible that, he was just a complete nutter, SO HE COULD NOT HELP IT ..right.[/quote']

 

So what? They have a boatload of pain brought down upon them by their spouse and the person that doesn't give a crap they are helping hurt someone else.

 

So if the worst of it is they get to vent and call names, then why not let them have it and leave them alone?

[nofool4u]

I am simply amazed at how much time people waste trying to think up some "scientific" reasoning behind the fact that people are attracted to other people besides their spouses, and sometimes act on those attractions.

 

You mean like the excuses from, mainly, cheating men that say they are set by nature to have sex with as many different women as they possibly can? To spread their genes?

[Spark1111]

LOL!! Based on your comparison, I can almost see a similarity with manslaughter, negligent homicide, second degree murder, and premeditated with malice aforethought.

 

But let me ask you a question.....why do some women, and men, gravitate towards these selfish and sinister people over and over again? From my experience, unstable and selfish people tend to find each other a lot! Heck...as we speak ...I know someone in counseling who has issues with her husband's infidelity and wickedly selfish behavior, but she is carrying on an affair herself because of lack of attention at home. It apparently has been a pattern all her life when she doesn't get attention, but she wonder's why men are all scum and can't be trusted.

 

Because you are right. They DO tend to attract each other. Like meet like in a destructive, usury relationship.

 

you fill my need, I will fill your need and who cares who is hurt by it? as long as we feel good.

[LoveTKO]

jeez!...where do you all find these people? Whenever I detected peculiar or manipulative behavior with a girlfriend early on I always called them out on it, like Dr. Phil would do...lol. I don't beat around the bush and let issues linger at all hoping that they'll go away or improve over time.

 

I have an older sibling who is highly manipulative and controlling, with past marriages and relationships that look like the remnants of a battlefield, so I learned from a very early age to set boundaries quick!

[LoveTKO]

You can hide all you want but you can't hide your past , which is a reliable indicator of future behavior.

[jlola]

some of these people are exemplary liars...

 

 

This article pertains to "Sociopaths" but it basically can be about any "Cluster B personality disorder. Some people may just have traits and not the full disorder. But what you see if never what you get!! This is why awareness so so important.

 

The Sociopath as Romantic Partner

Experts believe that all of us know at least one person that exhibits the behavior of a sociopath. They look very normal, they could be a friend, neighbor, family member or romantic partner.

 

 

 

 

Sociopaths can be very romantic, extremely charming and incredibly generous. They will shower their target with attention, flattery and gifts of all kinds - jewelry, clothes, flowers. A socipath will sweep you off your feet and treat you unlike anyone has ever treated you. He will typically seal the relationship very quickly, often before he discards his current victim.

Sociopaths have the ability to gain your affection very quickly and a relationship with a sociopath becomes intense very quickly.

 

Sociopaths are often very likeable, easy-going and relaxed. They are often delightful to be around and can make a dinner date enjoyable. They say all the right things and do all the right things to get what they think they want for the moment. It is not unusual for a sociopath to provide an endless about of support, running errands, organizing and encouraging you when you need it.

 

Sociopaths usually target women are who nurturing and very trusting, kind and caring. Often their targets are women who have morals since it is much easier for a socipath to 'con' a good person than another con artist. They only want to prey on women whom they can take and take from without the person expecting anything in return. They are social predators who target vulnerable women. Sociopaths can quickly determine a person's weak spots and vulnerabilities and will exploit them throughout the relationship. He will ascertain your likes, dislikes and passions and will declare admiration for the same subjects.

 

A romantic relationship is just another opportunity for a sociopath to find a trusting partner who buys into the lies. Everything about the relationship is a game. They can be extremely charming in a relationship while doing much damage behind the scenes by having countless affairs and lying about them. He will lie to his latest target while he is lying to his current victim. A sociopath will show his true self when he has his next target lined up and he knows that his current relationship is coming to an end.

 

Sociopaths fail to fulfill their promises or commitment made with romantic partners. They usually have a string of broken relationships and/or failed marriages due to their inability to feel true love and sustain intimate relationships. They never really form emotional attachments and therefore lack any sense of obligation. It may appear that there is an attachment but it isn't real. According to Dr. Martha Stout in her book 'The Sociopath Next Door', sociopaths will marry but never for love. Their relationships allow them to appear normal. Sociopaths can "know the words but not the music". They learn to appear emotional and romantic by imitating others' behavior.

 

Sociopaths show a stunning lack of concern for the devastating effects their actions have on others including wives, children, family and friends. They do not feel remorse, guilt or shame. They are not able to care about the pain and suffering experienced by others due to their complete lack of empathy which is a prerequisite for love. Sociopaths are always takers and never givers in spite of appearances and the illusion they create.

[jlola]

The more people are aware of these personality types. The more we begin to protect ourselves emotionally. There is a great deal of awareness happening now and a lot of psychological websites which many find AFTER a relationship with one of these disordered people.

 

Though I never had an affair, I was susceptible to personality disordered types since I was raised by one. I had two very painful relationships which took years to get over. It was not till I researched NPD and other disorders that I saw what happened. It was soooo clear and allowed me to stop making excuses and idealize these men.

 

I was basically love bombed like never before and taken on a whirlwind. I thought that was normal romance(after all you read about it in books)and I somehow messed these relationship up. Oh, how they play with your head. The push/pull. The crying and declarations of love when you are sick of it all and ready to leave. The twisted logic they try to give you to make you feel you are unreasonable. All of it.

 

When I ask my mother how she could have married such a horrible,disrespectful man. She used to tell me he was the sweetest most wonderful man while they were dating.

 

I thought there is no way in heck I would ever get involved with a man like that. Thought I was too smart. But I did. Just because theses men were not physically abusive did not mean the mental abuse was not worse.

 

But it was subtle. So subtle that I could never really put my finger on the abusive behavior if anyone asked. Sort of crazy making.

 

I know understand the saying when a person is being abused and stays of "You never know what goes on behind closed doors". It is not about sex. It is about the sweet intimate words he uses, the flattery, the " I need you and cannot live without you'se" "You are my life". The tears. All those things pull at your heartstring and makes you think he had a bad past, but you can make it all better,

 

You want to believe your love will make them somehow less of a crazy maker.

 

But it is a trick. They know you better than yourself. While others shake their heads and wonder why you are still there.

 

The pattern is that just as you are sick of them and ready to end it, they do something spectacular. They "act" more emotionally aware, Act more loving. Half the time, you do not have to say anything. They have radar for your threshold.

 

If I could have just one person see theses post and understand what happened I ill be happy.

 

Having all the pieces of the puzzle together sets you free.

Edited February 25, 2013 by jlola

[LoveTKO]

I don't know guys.........I'm not saying that I'm clairvoyant or whatever, but I've always had a good instinct for picking out flam flam artists and manipulators. Perhaps I pick up certain body language cues that I'm not aware of; a slight movement in the eye; a fast talker; someone who's too attentive; inconsistencies in seemingly innocuous conversations and what not; people who project their behavior on to you, etc. And I'm pretty quick to stare someone dead in the eye early on and call them out if something they said or did doesn't make sense.

 

Remember, when you're in a relationship it's okay to ask someone about their past relationships. Not the intimate details, but just a big picture of what transpired. If they're being evasive, claim to not remember, or besmirch all of their ex's or blaming them for the break up...watch out.

[LoveTKO]

From the statistics I read:

About HALf of American divorces site infidelity.

 

Roughly 75% of the American population are adults, 48% of this 75% get married. Half of the 48% get divorced, half if that half: cheaters.

 

So you can see from just looking at that, people who claim half of humanity cheats, are NOT really thinking about how that is very unlikely. They are trying to excuse their behavior by attempting to normalize it, liars lie: don't let then easily lie to you.

 

America had the highest divorce rate in the world, and our country does LOTS of weird crap other cultures don't do. A good example of how we are a dishonest culture is how we treat our dead: we put make up on the corpses to give the illusion it us still healthy!

 

Our largest population of homeless are veterans (as we claim to love our military).

 

We are the richest nation in the world while simultaneously having the worst inequity if life in human history (even in comparison to Rome!)

 

We claim to be the beacon of freedom while causing more genocides than any nation (and we are a very young nation which makes our death toll all the more scary)

 

The point of all this crap is: don't judge the health of a person by their adaptation to a sick society. Especially when the claims to normalize the behavior are invented numbers.

 

 

What about the ones who DON'T get divorced but continue living as a couple where cheating is alive and well?

 

Also, keep in mind that when you do the math you need to factor in a couple of things. First of all, if you take a sample and base the statistics on how many married people cheat, those men and women who ADMIT cheating are NOT necessarily married to a cheater. So, if you take a random sample of let's say a 1000 married people, 50% men and 50% women who aren't married to each other, and 30% of them admit to cheating, it changes the whole dynamic!! A lot of infidelity when you look at the hard numbers, because, most people who are being cheated on have no clue!

 

America has the highest divorce rate in the world? Try Russia....it's higher than the U.S. You need to factor in cultural customs and traditions as well when comparing these statistics. For example, in many Latin American Countries, with a "machismo" dominated culture, the divorce rate is indeed lower than the U.S. but infidelity isn't always a deal breaker in marriage. Women know that their husbands have a lover on the side in those cultures.

 

Have you ever lived or traveled abroad? I have, and there's some pretty sick $hit going on that some people accept as normal. I'll take the U.S. all day long over any other sovereign nation.

[LoveTKO]

If you are that intuitive, why did you allow yourself to get into an affair with a mow? You saw through the bs, but you did it anyway?

 

Ladygrey...there were no expectations. It wasn't anything predicated on love or running away together, just sex. I flat out told her that she's manipulative and a pleasure addict, and she somewhat agreed with me. She can't handle stress that well so she looks for a pleasure hook to mitigate things.

 

I'm the single guy...

Edited February 25, 2013 by LoveTKO

[jlola]

I don't know guys.........I'm not saying that I'm clairvoyant or whatever, but I've always had a good instinct for picking out flam flam artists and manipulators. Perhaps I pick up certain body language cues that I'm not aware of; a slight movement in the eye; a fast talker; someone who's too attentive; inconsistencies in seemingly innocuous conversations and what not; people who project their behavior on to you, etc. And I'm pretty quick to stare someone dead in the eye early on and call them out if something they said or did doesn't make sense.

 

Remember, when you're in a relationship it's okay to ask someone about their past relationships. Not the intimate details, but just a big picture of what transpired. If they're being evasive, claim to not remember, or besmirch all of their ex's or blaming them for the break up...watch out.

 

Now that I have my eyes open I can smell a personality disorder or manipulation a mile away. But most people cannot. They take people at face value not realizing the smiling charmer with a sad story (miserable marriage or bad childhood)who claims you are the only soulmate he has ever had is the person you need to watch out for.

 

 

By the time you get involved these people convince you you are "too sensitive", "you take things the wrong way" "You did not see what you saw", "you are ruining the relationship with your questions or lack of trust", "they are trustworthy and you have trust issues you need to get over" ,"they love you so much and you do not love them as much, this is why you are trying to ruin a good thing"blah,blah,blah.

 

Once you understand what gaslighting and mindgames are, you finally get it.

[Furious]

Ladygrey...there were no expectations. It wasn't anything predicated on love or running away together, just sex. I flat out told her that she's manipulative and a pleasure addict, and she somewhat agreed with me. She can't handle stress that well so she looks for a pleasure hook to mitigate things.

 

I'm the single guy...

 

 

A single guy who can date many single women.

 

Seems you MOW is a lot of drama and manipulative. Don't you find it

tiring, the sneaking around and also risking her husband finding out about you.

 

I wonder if you MOW is a BPD.

[jlola]

Ladygrey...there were no expectations. It wasn't anything predicated on love or running away together, just sex. I flat out told her that she's manipulative and a pleasure addict, and she somewhat agreed with me. She can't handle stress that well so she looks for a pleasure hook to mitigate things.

 

I'm the single guy...

 

And you don't think something is seriously wrong with this married woman? This is the best you can do? A lying married woman who thinks it's ok to cheat,be manipulative and a pleasure addict(in other words selfish)?

 

There are plenty of women who you can have a sexual relationship with that are single. But I guess some people are attracted to emotionally immature selfish people, no matter how aware they say they are. At some point, if you really do have your eyes open, these sort of people turn you off.

 

I cannot believe a man in this sexual day and age is still chasing married woman and willing to risk unwanted pregnancy ( wait till DNA is required with each birth,than the cheating won't seem like so much fun when you have to pay child support)and an irate husband just for sex.

 

Well, I guess you are right. Some folks are just ruled by sex. Sad life that must be since life consist of so many enjoyable things you can have if you bond with people,are faithful,loving and honest.

[jlola]

A single guy who can date many single women.

 

Seems you MOW is a lot of drama and manipulative. Don't you find it

tiring, the sneaking around and also risking her husband finding out about you.

 

I wonder if you MOW is a BPD.

 

BINGO!!!!

 

sneaking around,manipulative,lack of impulse control, emotionally immature. BPD,Oh, not this woman. She is perfectly normal and just has a few issues. STOP using psychological mumbo jumbo to describe everybody who just is a free spirit..:

 

I have to say when I read how these men who are involved with MW describe their relationship, push/pull,indecisive,attractive,manipulative,rollercoaster,soulmate I think the same thing. Guy is involved with an exiting BPD and stays engaged even after his logic tells him he needs to run. But ill find every excuse in the world for her behavior.

[LoveTKO]

A single guy who can date many single women.

 

Seems you MOW is a lot of drama and manipulative. Don't you find it

tiring, the sneaking around and also risking her husband finding out about you.

 

I wonder if you MOW is a BPD.

 

 

 

 

She's doesn't have a personality disorder. She's just selfish and felt that she had a right to do it. You know, that sense of entitlement that a lot of women get after 15 + years of marriage with the ensuing epiphany.."is this all there is to life?" One marriage, a stable career, no debt, no substance abuse, very rational and level headed with a calm voice, she doesn't praise a person one moment and then slime them three months later. She lives a pretty routine and very productive life.

[jlola]

Ladygrey...there were no expectations. It wasn't anything predicated on love or running away together, just sex. I flat out told her that she's manipulative and a pleasure addict, and she somewhat agreed with me. She can't handle stress that well so she looks for a pleasure hook to mitigate things.

 

I'm the single guy...

 

BTW, my father had an affair with a married woman who lived 3 doors down. I recently asked my mother how she found out. She said my paternal grandmother(who is a full blown nut too)pointed to child who was 3 at the time and casually said, There goes XXXXXX's child. My mother stood in shock as she looked at my stepsister and realized she was the spitting image of my father. I cannot even tell you the pain and humiliation it brought to my mother and also my sisters. No, it's all funand games because human beings cannot control themselves.

 

Well, family repetition happens. I have told this story before, to show what selfishness reaps. My stepsister who is almost 2 years older than I ,got married . She had the baby of her affair partner. Her husband's brother who was a doctor was suspicious. Did a DNA and the truth was revealed. My mother says the paternal grandmother went into deep depression. It was her first grandchild and she spoiled him like crazy. My nephew was about 4 years old when it was revealed.

 

Eight months after the truth was found out and they were in the process of divorce, her soon to be ex dies while driving a car . Not yet 30. i personally believe his mind was not all there after he found out and perhaps he was not paying attention to the road lost in thought.

 

My stepsister refused to tell my nephew the truth and had him believe his father's family abandoned them. He only recently found out he was born out of an affair. EVeryone is affected.

 

As for my full blood BPD sister. Well when her 1st affair partner came along after her 1st marriage and only child, she quickly skipped out and left a baby that as 1 year old with 1st husband. Meanwhile telling everyone what a horrible person he is. Her son is now grown up and has issues with trust and dating.

 

Yes, we are all intended to be ruled by sexual pleasure and when consequences happen, so what!!!

 

Can a rapist use the same excuse? Just asking????

[LoveTKO]

There are just as many single people in the dating pool with some serious personality and co-dependency issues. Constantly looking to get married so that some guy can take care of them allowing them to take the foot of the gas pedal so to speak. These single people end up getting married wreaking all kinds of havoc, with their partners resorting to sites like Loveshack for advice.

[jlola]

The sociopath/narccisistic/bpd person in the above story, is the woman who is knowingly the affair partner of the married man, yet seeking to deny her own responsibility by blaming it all on the married man/or his wife.

 

So you are absolutely wrong in your analysis and completely fail to understand what the article is all about.

 

 

Just because you do not take responsibility does not make you PD. It is a list of other things. The lying,the manipulation, the gaslighting. Usually someone does that to a spouse or significant other. That ability do be so deceptive, especially long term makes their character quite questionable.

 

People with personality disorders can be OM or OW also or Married person,noone said it was only MP. But they usually have a couple of people in the loop. This is why they are famous for "triangle". Not saying you cannot be OM or OW. saying even if you are, that is usually not your only relationship.

[jlola]

There are just as many single people in the dating pool with some serious personality and co-dependency issues. Constantly looking to get married so that some guy can take care of them allowing them to take the foot of the gas pedal so to speak. These single people end up getting married wreaking all kinds of havoc, with their partners resorting to sites like Loveshack for advice.

 

I finally agree with you. Lots of people should just not get married! Marriage is not for everyone. Ironically, people who shouldn't be married will follow the trend of tradition and do it. But then, go against tradition of the marriage vows and cheat. really confusing. Know thyself!

[LoveTKO]

I finally agree with you. Lots of people should just not get married! Marriage is not for everyone. Ironically, people who shouldn't be married will follow the trend of tradition and do it. But then, go against tradition of the marriage vows and cheat. really confusing. Know thyself!

 

 

Amen! I'm an iconoclast so to speak. My sister who's been married twice did it for the wrongs reasons, as did my good friend who is now on his second ill-fated marriage based on his ongoing co-dependency issues. More than half of my college and high school friends are now divorced. The ones that are still married look like death warmed over, with the men all ears when I talk about my single life.

 

Out of town functions with the company I work for? It's the married people who act and behave like animals as they are temporarily let out of the cage. I know several married couples with one spouse having NO CLUE that the other spouse is cheating, because they look like that picture perfect, gleeful, all American, upstanding couple. Sorry to impart the bad news in case you didn't know it. If you want a fairytale wedding go to Disneyland.

[LoveTKO]

hmmm....

 

i've been married 16 years and feel no such sense of 'entitlement"....maybe there is 'more' to life than what i have...but 'more" doesn't always mean "better"

 

 

Great point! Wanting more in life doesn't mean that your life will be better. If you're in a happy marriage then good for you. Keep working at it......you're one of the lucky few.

[jlola]

Great point! Wanting more in life doesn't mean that your life will be better. If you're in a happy marriage then good for you. Keep working at it......you're one of the lucky few.

 

 

 

Some people do not have a sense of entitlement and happy with what they have. I think everyday of how a majority of the world lives in poverty and suffering. Watching a child die from starvation or genocide. Wondering how to feed your family. I think everyday how many people have health issues and sick children in cancer wards or with physical ailments.I saw a little boy the other day with a breathing tube in his neck in a wheelchair. There was a special van his mother was driving built especially for him. Look at her life and his!!!!

 

I am thankful for what I have and if that leads to what someone thinks is a boring existence so be it. I can never figure out why people who have so much have to seek thrill and destruction in order to feel alive. Just seems so self absorbed.

 

Sometimes I think many humans who are lucky to be healthy and financially secure will always look for a reason to be dissatisfied.What you feed grows and if you think your life sucks, it ill!!! Meanwhile the people with real problems would be happy to trade places with our so called "boring" lives.

 

When you think you are entitled to get whatever you want at any cost, you really have to wonder ask why you should be so entitled while a majority of the world would give eye and teeth to live your life.

[Act Two]

Some people do not have a sense of entitlement and happy with what they have. I think everyday of how a majority of the world lives in poverty and suffering. Watching a child die from starvation or genocide. Wondering how to feed your family. I think everyday how many people have health issues and sick children in cancer wards or with physical ailments.I saw a little boy the other day with a breathing tube in his neck in a wheelchair. There was a special van his mother was driving built especially for him. Look at her life and his!!!!

 

I am thankful for what I have and if that leads to what someone thinks is a boring existence so be it. I can never figure out why people who have so much have to seek thrill and destruction in order to feel alive. Just seems so self absorbed.

 

Sometimes I think many humans who are lucky to be healthy and financially secure will always look for a reason to be dissatisfied.What you feed grows and if you think your life sucks, it ill!!! Meanwhile the people with real problems would be happy to trade places with our so called "boring" lives.

 

When you think you are entitled to get whatever you want at any cost, you really have to wonder ask why you should be so entitled while a majority of the world would give eye and teeth to live your life.

 

I read that one factor that puts someone "at risk" or perhaps as more vulnerable to having an affair is after going through a major life stressor such as a health issue.

 

I know this happened with me- I came out of a major health issue and shortly after came unglued, beginning an affair. There may be a major escape element there from stress.

 

I point that out only that affairs do not just happen to picture perfect, easy lives or an anecdote to boredom, but are often escapes (albeit unhealthy) from stress/

[RickFox]

I read that one factor that puts someone "at risk" or perhaps as more vulnerable to having an affair is after going through a major life stressor such as a health issue.

 

I know this happened with me- I came out of a major health issue and shortly after came unglued, beginning an affair. There may be a major escape element there from stress.

 

I point that out only that affairs do not just happen to picture perfect, easy lives or an anecdote to boredom, but are often escapes (albeit unhealthy) from stress/

 

I won't use this as an excuse but I can say that I was injured at work and required surgery that kept me out for almost a year and had heavy rehab. It was during this time that I began to face my own mortality, that I realized I wasn't as young as I once was and that healing took longer and longer. I felt alone alot, since I was at home healing and W was at work all the time. When I was finally mobile, I met my xAP and thus began the affair with someone ten years my junior...I guess I felt not so old and the fact she found me attractive helped build to the A. That and she stroked my ego big time...of course that was the need for validation coming into play

[Act Two]

I won't use this as an excuse but I can say that I was injured at work and required surgery that kept me out for almost a year and had heavy rehab. It was during this time that I began to face my own mortality, that I realized I wasn't as young as I once was and that healing took longer and longer. I felt alone alot, since I was at home healing and W was at work all the time. When I was finally mobile, I met my xAP and thus began the affair with someone ten years my junior...I guess I felt not so old and the fact she found me attractive helped build to the A. That and she stroked my ego big time...of course that was the need for validation coming into play

 

I agree with not using it as an excuse but it is helpful to identify, even after the fact some existing factors which might make someone more vulnerable for an affair, including staring down your mortality.

 

Of course those factors are in play for many people who choose not to cheat, but I think it's still worthwhile to understand what created the perfect storm.