don't want to commit

[Drseussgrrl]

No but I was wondering if this marriage would just turn out like my first one and so many other marriages I have seen. Believe I did have fears but she is the only I would marry and is still the only woman I would walk down the aisle for. I have issues with modern marriage in general so for her to be able to put me at ease over those issues means I really am in love.

 

I can understand someone having fears Woggle but you must understand what it's like for a lot of us women who deal with these so-called "fears" from the men we love only to see them become completely fearless with someone else when it comes to commitment. It's heartwrenching. In fact, for a time there, it destroyed me.

[Woggle]

Exactly. Even with all the **** you've been through, you were willing to take that chance with your wife - because she was the one.

 

True but somebody here said she would dump a man even if he discussed these fears. I figure if a woman really loves a man she would hear him out with his concerns especially when you consider how unstable and risky modern marriage can be. Can you blame a man for not wanting to end up another broke divorced guy living in a dump who only gets to see his kids once in a while?

[Woggle]

I can understand someone having fears Woggle but you must understand what it's like for a lot of us women who deal with these so-called "fears" from the men we love only to see them become completely fearless with someone else when it comes to commitment. It's heartwrenching. In fact, for a time there, it destroyed me.

 

I agree that this must hurt. I am more fearless with my wife than any other woman and she is worth getting over that cynicism because she is one of the few people that can break right through that hard shell.

[Drseussgrrl]

True but somebody here said she would dump a man even if he discussed these fears. I figure if a woman really loves a man she would hear him out with his concerns especially when you consider how unstable and risky modern marriage can be. Can you blame a man for not wanting to end up another broke divorced guy living in a dump who only gets to see his kids once in a while?

 

Well, such as divorce left you feeling scared, having a man not commit to me without hesitation has left ME fearful of scared men!

 

[Woggle]

Well, such as divorce left you feeling scared, having a man not commit to me without hesitation has left ME fearful of scared men!

 

 

Yeah but you didn't lose your kids and have to pay through the nose towards somebody that may have cheated on you. Neither did I because I have no kids and pay her nothing but that is reality for many men. I am not in anyway trying to minimize your pain because heartbreak truly sucks but no matter how much these men get over it emotionally it doesn't change the fact that they have been thrown out of being a full part of their family and kid's lives.

[Drseussgrrl]

Yeah but you didn't lose your kids and have to pay through the nose towards somebody that may have cheated on you. Neither did I because I have no kids and pay her nothing but that is reality for many men. I am not in anyway trying to minimize your pain because heartbreak truly sucks but no matter how much these men get over it emotionally it doesn't change the fact that they have been thrown out of being a full part of their family and kid's lives.

 

While we may not have been married with children, Woggle, yes I did lose everything that was dear to me. I lost the man I loved. I lost the home we had built together. I lost his family members I had shared everything with over four years. I lost my life as I knew it and - I had no legal repercussion. I was simply asked to leave. I won't even get into the fact that at 32 I had to move in with roommates after being lady of the house in my own place. I didn't see my own DOG for six months because he wouldn't give her up (even though she was really mine).

 

Then, as I'm canceling vendors and trying to sell the dream dress I never even got to try on, I learn that he's dating the wedding planner. This was a woman I had entrusted my DREAM with. I get sick thinking of the times the three of us had sat down and looked at f*cking FLOWERS together, among everything else.

 

So - no. I'm definitely NOT going to be putting myself in the position of dating a man who is scared because clearly, a man will go to GREAT LENGTHS to be with his dream woman, up to and including dumping his fiance within three months of their wedding.

 

Sorry for the sob story but I guess we all got one.

[Woggle]

While we may not have been married with children, Woggle, yes I did lose everything that was dear to me. I lost the man I loved. I lost the home we had built together. I lost his family members I had shared everything with over four years. I lost my life as I knew it and - I had no legal repercussion. I was simply asked to leave. I won't even get into the fact that at 32 I had to move in with roommates after being lady of the house in my own place. I didn't see my own DOG for six months because he wouldn't give her up (even though she was really mine).

 

Then, as I'm canceling vendors and trying to sell the dream dress I never even got to try on, I learn that he's dating the wedding planner. This was a woman I had entrusted my DREAM with. I get sick thinking of the times the three of us had sat down and looked at f*cking FLOWERS together, among everything else.

 

So - no. I'm definitely NOT going to be putting myself in the position of dating a man who is scared because clearly, a man will go to GREAT LENGTHS to be with his dream woman, up to and including dumping his fiance within three months of their wedding.

 

Sorry for the sob story but I guess we all got one.

 

And if you were a little bit cynical and not so quick to jump into things with another man I would perfectly understand.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I would define stringing along as explicitly telling or implying to her that I want to get married or have kids. We have never discussed marriage before. When asked if I want to have more children I've told her "probably, but not so soon because my youngest is just turning 3," and that's the honest truth.

 

I'll tell her exactly how I feel about moving in. I'm not one to hide my feelings. My purpose of posting here was to get a prediction on her reaction. Apparently she'll realize what an ass I am and I'll be single again...

 

The way many women see it is like this OP...

 

If you're not working towards, progressing, or seeking marriage/kids while they in fact are looking for that in the near future...then you from their perspective are in fact, wasting their time/stringing them along.

 

Regardless of the fact that you were straight up and honest with your intentions and situation in life...they're not overly concerned with that, just patient and tolerant and set an expectation that you will come around, eventually. That's what makes the time investment "worth it".

 

Keyword: Investment

 

Many women often expect YOU to bear the burden of making this difficult decision for them, not for themselves, regardless of what they see and hear they will still otherwise hold the blame on you for not spelling it out for them, no matter how obvious and apparent...as many use their emotions as a way out of responsibility and accountability. If you can realize that, then you'll understand a lot of the backhanded "traps" and "blackmail" of delving into emotions, making gestures or taking actions that...for a woman, imply your intentions therefore in that light, are contradictory.

 

Your words mean nothing to a woman who is emotionally determined to secure the relationship and her expectations/desires of what she is seeking. They will look right through them and continue on with their "hopes", that vast majority anyway.

 

You will need to decide if this relationship is what you need in your life right now...and whether she is in the place in her life to make that kind of a sacrifice. She doesn't clearly appear to be...she's looking for a husband and man to father her children, the added financial security is also a big boost...not to mention you've been married before and have children, so she already feels she has this expectation that you could do that all over again...you've showed you are capable of it.

 

If I were I'd cut out of this relationship...it may be perfect now but many women emulate what you think is the perfect girl in the beginning to solidify a relationship. They watch you, learn you, figure you out...and hit on those things to look like the "perfect match"...they want things to be perfect and want you to want them so they typically act accordingly, letting all those things go that bother them in sacrifice of the bigger picture...marriage and kids.

 

That's something you don't need...IMO she's a rebound relationship and you haven't stretched your wings out far enough or gotten a taste for the bachelor life yet. You really have enough on your plate right now as it is, and you've got a lot of thinking and reflection to do...otherwise this woman will try and lock you down into a committed relationship, leading to marriage and kids...and then when you try to back out she's going to throw it right back in your face...even though you were just going with your feelings and with the flow so to speak...she's not going with the flow and just having fun for whatever it is and just interested in enjoying the relationship...she's looking for round 2 with you...marriage, kids...all over again.

 

I don't think you're ready, and I wouldn't make the sacrifice. A lot of women are going to chastise you for doing what you want, but if you let that get you down then you'll just be another poor sap doing things out of guilt not because you really want to. You don't sound ready, and that should be enough for women to walk away on their own...especially jumping into a serious relationship after divorce...a very weak and vulnerable moment for men where they desire a lot of attention and care, which is why they typically shack up with a woman...for that comfort and companionship in that phase or transition.

 

You already know what you've got to do...you can't have your cake and eat it too, this girl wants something that you do not right now, and that's good enough reason to end the relationship...otherwise you're in for a whole other world at some point, eventually she'll get tired of it and the ***** is going to hit the fan...and you're meager words and reminders of this is what you wanted or meant, or intentions were, will do nothing to extinguish the flames...right now, she's locked on you like a bull, she's going to keep trying to lock you in regardless of what you're saying and feeling, she's not going to pay any attention to that until after the relationship ends...then she might kick herself in the butt and try again all over with another man, usually repeating the same exact cycle.

[silvermercy]

The way many women see it is like this OP...

 

Regardless of the fact that you were straight up and honest with your intentions and situation in life...

No, he was not straight up and honest. The impression we got here is that he's never seriously discussed it with her, hence his post here about his cold feet regarding moving in together; moving in usually a natural move for even the less committed couples, even in situations where marriage is very far... far... away possibility. He wanted to gauge her reaction from our own (female) reactions. He was not entirely honest with her for fear of breaking up and that means he's stringing her along by default.

 

This is not a case of "going with the flow" that's totally a case of "stringing someone along" all the while trying to muddy the waters by using his kid situation as a crippled excuse.

Edited February 22, 2013 by silvermercy

[clia]

No, he was not straight up and honest. The impression we got here is that he's never seriously discussed it with her, hence his post here about his cold feet regarding moving in together; moving in usually a natural move for even the less committed couples, even in situations where marriage is very far... far... away possibility. He wanted to gauge her reaction from our own (female) reactions. He was not entirely honest with her for fear of breaking up and that means he's stringing her along by default.

 

This is not a case of "going with the flow" that's totally a case of "stringing someone along" all the while trying to muddy the waters by using his kid situation as a crippled excuse.

 

But...she hasn't discussed it with him either until a few days ago!

 

According to him, they've never discussed marriage, and she only brought up moving in together a few days ago. And he thought about it, decided he isn't ready for it, and came here for some advice prior to breaking the news to her.

 

I just don't see that he's been stringing her along. She could've brought up these topics much, much sooner if it was that important to her. At most, he's been stringing her along for a few days...which is nothing.

 

And I bet you dollars to donuts that she will not dump him, even after he tells her point blank that he doesn't want to move in with her.

 

I also don't agree that moving in together is a "natural move" in a relationship, particularly before marriage, and particularly when children are involved. While yes, some people move in together at the drop of a hat, or see moving in together as no biggie, for others it is a much bigger step.

[e40]

As I said before, she's perfect. I have no reason to NOT want to be here. I guess I've thought maybe I should have dated other people before her. Sometimes I think about dating someone younger or with a stronger career. What this would get me, I don't know. I make $500k per year and she makes less than $40k.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's already been a year and a half. I wouldn't use the word commitmentphobe yet, but it is going in that direction.

[silvermercy]

But...she hasn't discussed it with him either until a few days ago!

 

According to him, they've never discussed marriage, and she only brought up moving in together a few days ago. And he thought about it, decided he isn't ready for it, and came here for some advice prior to breaking the news to her.

 

I just don't see that he's been stringing her along. She could've brought up these topics much, much sooner if it was that important to her. At most, he's been stringing her along for a few days...which is nothing.

 

And I bet you dollars to donuts that she will not dump him, even after he tells her point blank that he doesn't want to move in with her.

 

I also don't agree that moving in together is a "natural move" in a relationship, particularly before marriage, and particularly when children are involved. While yes, some people move in together at the drop of a hat, or see moving in together as no biggie, for others it is a much bigger step.

He is stringing her along from the very START because that's what most people assume and hope when they think about a natural progression of a serious relationship they're entering. Moving in together, kids, marriage etc... Regardless if the relationship succeeds or not in the end. Not being as clear as day about your time-frame is very dishonest. Obviously the OP's gf erroneously assumed their time-frames were similar - to be with him for so long. And that's why she recently started "pressuring" him. Such thoughts don't suddenly pop out of nowhere within a "few days"... (That applies to both partners).

 

Actually I see as moving together the most natural move you can do as a couple, and I know there are many others who see it like me. Quite obviously, the OP's GF sees it this way as well. And that's all it should matter to the OP. If he cares, that is.

 

Who cares if she doesn't dump him when he refuses her? She may still be in denial that one day he will come around. The relationship seems to be doomed this way or the other. If not now, then at some point in the future. Because SHE will want kids and commitment and HE will always wonder about a younger and wealthier GF.

Edited February 22, 2013 by silvermercy

[crude]

You've already been married and had children. Why do it again so soon? You're too young and successful to try it again so soon. Enjoy your life, end this relationship if she wants more. Let's let Albert Einstein give his opinion.

 

 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein

 

 

[Ladybugz]

be honest to her. so both of you dont have to waste your time.

[stillafool]

OP, are you in love with this woman or do you love her because she is beautiful, kind and loyal?

[Drseussgrrl]

Look OP I get it - you don't want to lose a good thing here. You recognize that she's a good woman and everything is great, but there's that nagging feeling in the back of your head that this just isn't "it" for you.

 

Please, do yourself and her a favor and wait until you find "it". A lot of men will remain in a relationship long past its expiration date because they don't want to be alone, but the minute "it" shows up the other poor girl is history. Men AND women do this to each other, and the other person is left to pick up the pieces while you skip off into the sunset with your happy ending.

 

Please, please don't be that guy. She is obviously feeling a certain way about you that you would know you did too at this point.

[Ruby Slippers]

You recognize that she's a good woman and everything is great, but there's that nagging feeling in the back of your head that this just isn't "it" for you.

 

Please, do yourself and her a favor and wait until you find "it".

Exactly. You'll be doing yourself and her a big favor.

[nestlequik]

Look OP I get it - you don't want to lose a good thing here. You recognize that she's a good woman and everything is great, but there's that nagging feeling in the back of your head that this just isn't "it" for you.

 

Please, do yourself and her a favor and wait until you find "it". A lot of men will remain in a relationship long past its expiration date because they don't want to be alone, but the minute "it" shows up the other poor girl is history. Men AND women do this to each other, and the other person is left to pick up the pieces while you skip off into the sunset with your happy ending.

 

Please, please don't be that guy. She is obviously feeling a certain way about you that you would know you did too at this point.

 

I think she is "it," but I've thought that about someone else (me ex-wife) and it ended... badly. I trusted someone and it worked fine for many years but when she decided it was over she did all she could to take the kids, turn them against me, drain my bank account and ruin my career.

 

How can I trust my emotions/feelings/instincts now when I was so colossally wrong before?

[nestlequik]

But...she hasn't discussed it with him either until a few days ago!

 

According to him, they've never discussed marriage, and she only brought up moving in together a few days ago. And he thought about it, decided he isn't ready for it, and came here for some advice prior to breaking the news to her.

 

I just don't see that he's been stringing her along. She could've brought up these topics much, much sooner if it was that important to her. At most, he's been stringing her along for a few days...which is nothing.

 

And I bet you dollars to donuts that she will not dump him, even after he tells her point blank that he doesn't want to move in with her.

 

I also don't agree that moving in together is a "natural move" in a relationship, particularly before marriage, and particularly when children are involved. While yes, some people move in together at the drop of a hat, or see moving in together as no biggie, for others it is a much bigger step.

 

It had never been mentioned until a couple days ago. She brought it up via text message while I was at work. I told her let's discuss in person. I plan on doing that tonight or this weekend.

[RedRobin]

When a person (man or woman) is ready to commit to you or at least commit to the effort of finding the one they CAN commit to, there is no hesitation.

 

A couple of examples... I dated a guy awhile back, and very early on I told him I'm looking for a relationship leading to marriage.

 

He said "Sounds good to me! We will date for a socially acceptable period of time, say 6 months to a year, and then get married."

 

He wasn't sh*tting. He was serious about settling down, and I was his top candidate. Ultimately, I decided I couldn't be a politicians wife... I'm not fond of being in the public eye and I'm too opinionated. We are still friends though.

 

After we broke up, he met another woman about two years later, and he got married. TA DA! DONE!

 

Example #2: A stunningly attractive, rising star at the company I used to work at was recently divorced and we did that little mating dance for awhile. He was very visible, and since I wasn't keen on dating people I worked with, I tested his interest by suggesting we get engaged as part of our courtship. Mind you, I didn't love the guy. Hardly knew him, TBH... but I wanted to see where his head was at. It was 'dating with a deadline'... as I call it.

 

He politely rejected the offer and said he was too broken up over his recent divorce.

 

Fair enough... we parted ways without any discomfort whatsoever, and I didn't end up being added to his corral of suitors... which suited me just fine.

 

A couple of years later, he met someone (also in the company) and is now married. *shrug*. Was it bad timing? was it lack of interest? who knows. Doesn't really matter.

 

This is what I tell women all the time (and some men too)... don't even waste two seconds of your time with someone who is afraid of or uninterested in commitment if you are looking for one. Fence sitting, hedging bets, and assorted other distractions/excuses are not to be tolerated. Let them go waste someone else's time.

 

Whether you aren't ready to be married because of HER or YOU... outcome is the same for HER. Ok, so it took 1.5 years to figure out... she'd be well advised to move along. And if you continue from here, you WILL be stringing her along because you know now that she wants more.

 

No use keeping this one going...

[crude]

If you're wondering about younger, more successful women now, imagine what it'll be 10 years from now when she's 43 and a woman of leisure, lunching and relaxing at the spa all day with other "retired" women who married "up". By then you'll have 5 children, and you'll be wondering what happened to your life, where did it all go off the rails. Now things are fine, but change happens, from aging to getting spoiled to people tiring of each other to remorse for not acting on your desires. Since you're the one with the most to lose, you'll be the one to pay the price. I think women call it divorcing "well".

[RedRobin]

... OR... you will be happily married and invested in your life with a wonderful woman and children. You achieve even greater heights in your career because you are now able to focus on the things that really matter... not chasing tail. The two men I just mentioned who didn't hesitate to get married or re-married for instance... one of them won their most recent election in a very competitive race... the other I heard got a major promotion and is on his way to becoming a top tier executive in a major multi-national organization.

 

... OR... you will be chasing tail and dealing with the assorted dramas that come with that. Your co-workers and managers will come to see you as a poor stability risk due to your in/out relationships with women... and pass you up for promotions in favor of the settled down guy.

 

... and no, this guy isn't the one with the most to lose. I always think it is hilarious when guys think they have SO much to lose by being in a committed relationship or marriage. Get a prenup if you are so f*ing paranoid.

 

Truth is, the woman often has more to lose... both in career prospects (because she's expected to make all the sacrifices) and dating prospects later should he decide to divorce her.

 

Here is something to think about Mr. OP hot stuff... does it ever occur to you that a younger, higher income woman will expect YOU to make some sacrifices on the career goals??? that it won't be all about you and your 'fabulous' $500K? Ever thought about what life would be like if that job of yours were taken away?

 

Sounds to me you are a bad risk for any woman of any age with your attitude. Your priorities suck.

Edited February 23, 2013 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

LOL...as I've always said here, it's always the ones with the least amount of 'gold' to dig that cry the loudest.

 

BS... what they DO though, is recoupe the investment they made in their H's career.

 

Jack Welch was married for over 20 years to his first wife... he started from the bottom and made his way while he was married to her. No way in hell you are going to convince most people that she had nothing to do with his success... so when he decided to 'cash in' and dump her for a younger woman, she had every reason to 'cash out' on her investment too.

 

What some guys are pissed about is they think women are here to prop them up and make their lives all fabulous... then when they actually have to do more than throw money at the relationship, they get pissed... when in reality, all they ever brought to the table was their money anyway.

 

I have no respect for guys like Jack Welch who earn their success on a woman's back and time. Well, I have no respect for him for lots of other reasons too. He made GE evil.

[crude]

 

I have no respect for guys like Jack Welch who earn their success on a woman's back and time.

 

I don't see how a woman who does nothing at all but spend her husband's money is responsible for his success. Look at what Jerry Seinfeld has accomplished as a single man. His wife married him when he was a billionaire. She's responsible for none of his success. If men never got married, they'd have EXACTLY the same success without a wife. The same for women who become successful, usually as single women because they won't support a man who could give them the same homemaking and parenting as a housewife does for a man.

[ltjg45]

How does being happy with where we're at now in the relationship equate with stringing her along? You act as though I'm taking advantage of her or behaving immorally.

 

It's simple, really.

 

She wants commitment.

 

You don't want commitment.

 

Instead of breaking up and finding a mate that is fine with your demands, you are still together with her just for the hell of it.

 

If you are happy, you wouldn't be here posting this. That makes you a hypocrite.

 

Esp. when you said that she was "perfect". If she was "perfect", you would have married her instead of leaving her options to go elsewhere if she ever finds another man that will give her attention whenever she is emotional.

 

And I'm sure, in the near future, she will get emotional. It's just a matter of time.