Insecurities

[hissunshine]

Sadly, W passed away about two weeks ago. I attended the wake and funeral. MM was really happy to see me and introduced me to his children as his really good friend. At the funeral, he was very much a mess. His grief was very obvious. I felt very bad for him, his children and her family.

 

So now, he has asked for some time. I understand this as I know that he needs time to grieve and be there for his kids while they try and adjust to life without their mom.

 

I have never been an insecure person. I realize that I have a great deal of things going for me but these past two years have done a number on me. While I know that MM loves me, I realize that its so important that he close this chapter of his life in order for him (and us) to move forward in the future. I also realize that him taking time has really nothing to do with his feelings about me but I find myself constantly worrying that he is not going to come back at some point and do what he has spent the past two years telling me about. My therapist has told me that while he has gotten out of making a choice for the past two years, there is going to come a time in the future when he is going to have to make one - to be or not to be with me. This scares me for some reason...even if logic tells me this is not a rational fear.

 

So, my question is to OWs who have been in a similar situation or where their MMs have gotten divorced. Did you ever feel that he wouldn't choose you? Have you ever felt unusually insecure when faced with an actual, concrete point in the future where your MM is no longer a MM anymore?

 

To the bitter BSs, please do not respond to this thread if you are not going to add constructive comments to it...Thanks.

[hissunshine]

WOW.....you met his children during their time of grief at their mom's funeral? The fact that he did that should scare you more than him making a choice. Question...how much time do you think he will need to make a choice?

 

I am sure there were many of the hundreds of people who attended, also met them at the wake.

 

I would say 6 months to a year is how long he will need to make a choice.

[threelaurels]

Sadly, W passed away about two weeks ago. I attended the wake and funeral. MM was really happy to see me and introduced me to his children as his really good friend. At the funeral, he was very much a mess. His grief was very obvious. I felt very bad for him, his children and her family.

 

So now, he has asked for some time. I understand this as I know that he needs time to grieve and be there for his kids while they try and adjust to life without their mom.

 

I have never been an insecure person. I realize that I have a great deal of things going for me but these past two years have done a number on me. While I know that MM loves me, I realize that its so important that he close this chapter of his life in order for him (and us) to move forward in the future. I also realize that him taking time has really nothing to do with his feelings about me but I find myself constantly worrying that he is not going to come back at some point and do what he has spent the past two years telling me about. My therapist has told me that while he has gotten out of making a choice for the past two years, there is going to come a time in the future when he is going to have to make one - to be or not to be with me. This scares me for some reason...even if logic tells me this is not a rational fear.

 

So, my question is to OWs who have been in a similar situation or where their MMs have gotten divorced. Did you ever feel that he wouldn't choose you? Have you ever felt unusually insecure when faced with an actual, concrete point in the future where your MM is no longer a MM anymore?

 

To the bitter BSs, please do not respond to this thread if you are not going to add constructive comments to it...Thanks.

 

For the record, I am not a BS.

 

You disrespected his wife in life by having an affair with her husband, and then you disrespected her in death by showing up to her funeral and wake. I hope you (and him) realize how reprehensible that is.

 

You need to leave his kids alone. Even if he's ready to move on anytime soon, his kids won't be. It will take them years to adjust to their mother's death. They will grieve deeply at first and then life will slowly go back to normal as time passes, but that pain will always be there.

 

It will also take years for his kids to be comfortable with the idea of their father dating anyone else. If they find out about the affair, things will not be pretty. If his wife's illness was foreseen, they will never forgive him for betraying her while she was suffering and slowly dying.

 

I'm sorry, but you're deluding yourself if you think this is a time for "opening a new chapter" in your lives together. You're not going to be able to have a normal relationship with him or his kids any time soon.

 

My guess is that he will leave you because the pain will be to much to take. The reality is that he probably wouldn't have left his wife and family had she not died. He had been her partner for a number of years, and he will only love and miss her even more now that she's gone. It may just take a while to sink in once the shock of her death has worn off.

 

You really need to think of what you're doing to his kids and end it once and for all, if he doesn't do it for you.

[hissunshine]

I would agree with you there were a lot who met them. If he chooses to be with you...the introduction of you at their mother's funeral while they were in the middle of one of the hardest things a child can endure....do you see where I am going with this? Is that time line of 6-12 months your timeline of waiting or the timeline you expect him to be clear enough to choose?

 

Yes I see what you are trying to say BUT I highly doubt that they will remember me in particular and given that I was introduced as a friend. Also, a few months after MM and I first got together, W and one of the kids came to the restaurant where we were having lunch one day (this was after she found out about the sickness). After we found out they were coming, I was going to leave but MM encouraged me to stay. So this wasn't our first meeting. Anyway, this honestly doesn't bother me. There is no reason for the kids to think that we were anything to each other beyond friends and co-workers.

 

I think I will know in that time frame if this is real or I have wasted 3 years of my life.

[2sure]

Did he ask you to attend the wake and funeral?

[Spark1111]

Did he ask you to attend the wake and funeral?

 

 

This! Did he?

[awkward]

Why did you attend her funeral? Did he want you there? My god.

[Spark1111]

The FOWin my sitch showed up at my FIL's funeral. she met my children. NO, she wasn't invited but thought it would be a wonderful show of support to HIM.

 

He may have told her how happy he was to see her. We had a DDay. we reconciled.

 

I can guarantee you that if I were to die tomorrow, she would be the LAST woman on the planet they would allow him to have anything to do with.

 

trust me, that was a huge misstep.

 

Did he invite you, or did you take it upon yourself to show up?

Edited February 21, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[whichwayisup]

Yes I see what you are trying to say BUT I highly doubt that they will remember me in particular and given that I was introduced as a friend. Also, a few months after MM and I first got together, W and one of the kids came to the restaurant where we were having lunch one day (this was after she found out about the sickness). After we found out they were coming, I was going to leave but MM encouraged me to stay. So this wasn't our first meeting. Anyway, this honestly doesn't bother me. There is no reason for the kids to think that we were anything to each other beyond friends and co-workers.

 

I think I will know in that time frame if this is real or I have wasted 3 years of my life.

 

As long as you weren't sitting with him and his children, holding his hand and comforting him during the funeral. IF that was the case, then yes, it was wrong and inappropriate timing.

 

All this is out of your hands okay. Back off and let him grieve the loss, be with his kids and sort out his life. There a million and one things they need to do as a family right now, settling her finances, sorting through personal belongings. you shouldn't be a part of that, be dragged into ANYTHING that has to do with this sad loss. For your own sanity.

 

He needs counseling so badly because if he comes to you right now or too soon, your R with him will so unhealthy and you will have more insecurities.

 

HS, tell him goodbye for now and give him time. I'm telling you, this isn't a case of OW ending up with MM because of divorce - This is much MUCH more complicated and emotional, so no OW or anybody should be telling you to go for it. He needs A LOT of time to grieve and come to grips with how this all happened, what he's done. The guilt WILL hit him and when that happens you don't want to be the one around him, that guilt will turn into hate and resentment, ruin it all. Sorry there is no easy way here...Just focus on you and your own life, friends and family. Let him deal with this alone or with counseling.

[stevie_23]

I’ve never been faced with it as my A ended before we got that sort of chance, but I have thought about it a few times and wondered how I’d feel. I too would feel insecure. Not only if my ex-MM’s wife had died (I’d be worried he would somehow resent me or his guilt would be too much for us to be together anymore), but if he left his wife…and my insecurity would be something along the lines of…he loved me within that restrictive narrow-abled bubble, and he chose to be with me despite and within his circumstances…but now he’d be free to be with ANYONE…would he still choose me?

[beenburned]

hissunshine,

 

Is this the MM that said he was leaving to be with you, then found out about his wife's terminal illness and decided to stay?

[cocorico]

Sadly, W passed away about two weeks ago. I attended the wake and funeral. MM was really happy to see me and introduced me to his children as his really good friend. At the funeral, he was very much a mess. His grief was very obvious. I felt very bad for him, his children and her family.

 

So now, he has asked for some time. I understand this as I know that he needs time to grieve and be there for his kids while they try and adjust to life without their mom.

 

I have never been an insecure person. I realize that I have a great deal of things going for me but these past two years have done a number on me. While I know that MM loves me, I realize that its so important that he close this chapter of his life in order for him (and us) to move forward in the future. I also realize that him taking time has really nothing to do with his feelings about me but I find myself constantly worrying that he is not going to come back at some point and do what he has spent the past two years telling me about. My therapist has told me that while he has gotten out of making a choice for the past two years, there is going to come a time in the future when he is going to have to make one - to be or not to be with me. This scares me for some reason...even if logic tells me this is not a rational fear.

So, my question is to OWs who have been in a similar situation or where their MMs have gotten divorced. Did you ever feel that he wouldn't choose you? Have you ever felt unusually insecure when faced with an actual, concrete point in the future where your MM is no longer a MM anymore?

 

To the bitter BSs, please do not respond to this thread if you are not going to add constructive comments to it...Thanks.

 

 

Of course there was a real possibility that once freed from the shackles of his M, the "M fog" would lift, he'd start to see the world more clearly, and everything it had to offer, and may choose to exercise other options. I loved him, wanted the best for him, and if another option provided that, I would have wished him well and exercised one of my own other options.

 

I did not feel insecure, no, even though after he left we did not immediately move in together. Rather, he lived with the kids for six months, and then I joined them, and then later we M. The time apart was necessary for him to establish himself and his post-M R with his kids, to shake off the shackles properly so that he would unlearn all of those toxic habits he'd learned in the M. It was good for him, for them for us.

 

But part of the reason I did not feel insecure was that he never gave me cause to. He communicated openly and freely at all times, I always knew exactly where I stood, and I felt involved in his life even at a distance.

 

If you are feeling insecure, there is probably something in your communication that is failing to provide you with assurances you want. Are the assurances you seek realistic - can he authentically make those promises too you right now? Or, are you looking for smaller signs, intimations that he has not forgotten you, that he still cares, that you still matter to him, and failing to find even those?

 

Neither of you can predict the future, but your R is not just about the future, it's also about now. If the R is not meeting your needs now, you need to consider whether you still want to invest as heavily in it, or whether perhaps taking a step back yourself, the same way he is doing through his grief, might not serve you better until you can feel more centred within yourself and less dependent on him to provide assurances about your future R.

 

He's gone through a rough patch and you want to be there for him, but you also need to take care of yourself, most of all.

Edited February 21, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Cali408]

Now I've heard everything there is on the Love Shack. You can't make this stuff up.

 

Honey, go live your life. Stop waiting. If he comes a callin' great, if not, great. Get busy living.

[beenburned]

My question above was not answered, so I will assume it is the same MM.

 

If he was ready and willing to leave/divorce his wife before the terminal illness, I would be leary of just what his personal motivation was in deciding to stay.

 

If he was a good honorable man, he would have wanted to help his wife and kids through this time of crisis in their lives.(no matter how unhappy he was)

 

However, if he knew this illness was definiately terminal, and he was a greedy money loving type, he might have used this as the perfect excuse to gain assets and life insurance money. Especially if they had a will leaving everything to him upon her death.

 

The answers to your question will become clear as time passes by.

[truthbetold]

I was hoping for your sake after your last thread about seeing pics of them and how he lied about how close they were, you were making plans of ending things. I guess he must have sweet talked his way back. Regardless I agree with LadyGrey that I don't see this ending well either.

 

I'm not sure why it matters so much whether a person is a BS or an OW, some of us are neither but the advice comes from a caring spot and is meant to help you. If you just want validation then I guess move past those types of posts, but it's a public board, so to come off all defensive, well it's just sort of obvious that you're not as self assured about this as you'd like.

 

First it takes 1 full year to get over a death and "start" to move on. Grief counselors are taught to tell the patients that they need to experience life for one full year of all the holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, seasons etc... So you're idea of 6 mos for him to start to "date" you is not realistic at all.

 

Second you're pretty dismissive about the kids meeting you and thinking they won't connect you to an affair. You said he intro'd you while having lunch and now as a "really good friend" at the funeral. Granted they're quite grief stricken but even in a state of shock it's amazing what the mind can remember. They obviously knew mom was sick and now dad is introducing a female that is a "good" friend but doesn't know mom and you don't think that would put up a bit of a flag in the kid's minds? Kids are far from stupid regardless of what they do or don't let on.

 

I completely agree with LadyGrey that if it turns out that he enjoyed you being there at the funeral and meeting his wife and kid at lunch, he's a sociopath. If on the other hand, normal emotions kick in and he feels tremendous guilt about what he did while she was sick (as he should) I don't see how a relationship with you will survive.

 

I have seen more than not if a guy does end up getting divorced, many times they do dump the girlfriend and starting dating to find someone that isn't tied to all the pain of past trouble. If you think about it, it makes sense. Many of these guys are conflict avoidant or they wouldn't be having affairs in the first place they'd just be divorcing. So someone like that doesn't want bad memories to taint their new start and that's in a divorce. How much worse would it be to remain with someone in their eyes who was a part of the worse time in their life?

 

I'm sorry for you that you didn't step away in the beginning and let him come find you a couple of years after he's healed.

 

You seem to think even after a year the kids would be okay with him dating someone else and they may very well not be. I don't know if you have lost your mom (I have) and I still can have my moments of wishing I could pick up the phone or having a tearful moment at the holidays, and I lost her to natural causes. I heard once that a mom will always leave a hole in the heart once she's gone and I believe that to be true.

 

You're pretty confidant these kids won't find out about what happened, but life has a funny way of bringing to light what was in the dark. That's a hell of a way to live, having to fear that your world could blow up at any time because of not choosing to live authentically. I am sorry for your pain and that you chose this so far for yourself, I hope you can make better choices in the future.

[hissunshine]

hissunshine,

 

Is this the MM that said he was leaving to be with you, then found out about his wife's terminal illness and decided to stay?

 

 

Yes it is!

[hissunshine]

Of course there was a real possibility that once freed from the shackles of his M, the "M fog" would lift, he'd start to see the world more clearly, and everything it had to offer, and may choose to exercise other options. I loved him, wanted the best for him, and if another option provided that, I would have wished him well and exercised one of my own other options.

 

I did not feel insecure, no, even though after he left we did not immediately move in together. Rather, he lived with the kids for six months, and then I joined them, and then later we M. The time apart was necessary for him to establish himself and his post-M R with his kids, to shake off the shackles properly so that he would unlearn all of those toxic habits he'd learned in the M. It was good for him, for them for us.

 

But part of the reason I did not feel insecure was that he never gave me cause to. He communicated openly and freely at all times, I always knew exactly where I stood, and I felt involved in his life even at a distance.

 

If you are feeling insecure, there is probably something in your communication that is failing to provide you with assurances you want. Are the assurances you seek realistic - can he authentically make those promises too you right now? Or, are you looking for smaller signs, intimations that he has not forgotten you, that he still cares, that you still matter to him, and failing to find even those?

 

Neither of you can predict the future, but your R is not just about the future, it's also about now. If the R is not meeting your needs now, you need to consider whether you still want to invest as heavily in it, or whether perhaps taking a step back yourself, the same way he is doing through his grief, might not serve you better until you can feel more centred within yourself and less dependent on him to provide assurances about your future R.

 

He's gone through a rough patch and you want to be there for him, but you also need to take care of yourself, most of all.

 

Thanks for actually answering the question!!!! He is an emotional mess right now. I have seen this progressively get worse as she got sicker and sicker. You are right though, the communication right now is very bad and it has been in the past 2 months. He has a lot to deal with and I know deep in my heart and my head that no contact right now is the best. Its just hard to know someone you love so much is hurting very badly now...I know, I know, I can't help him, only time will.

[hissunshine]

My question above was not answered, so I will assume it is the same MM.

 

If he was ready and willing to leave/divorce his wife before the terminal illness, I would be leary of just what his personal motivation was in deciding to stay.

 

If he was a good honorable man, he would have wanted to help his wife and kids through this time of crisis in their lives.(no matter how unhappy he was)

 

However, if he knew this illness was definiately terminal, and he was a greedy money loving type, he might have used this as the perfect excuse to gain assets and life insurance money. Especially if they had a will leaving everything to him upon her death.

 

The answers to your question will become clear as time passes by.

 

Absolutely, no doubt about it! It will either get better or it won't and I will need to move on.

[truthbetold]

One other thing. You should honestly go back and re read your posts from 2 years ago. You sound less defensive and more open to seeing the cracks that are pretty obvious. Then in Dec you posted that you were done with his self centered behavior. What changed? He still seems to be quite the self centered ass clown.

 

It seems they had a pretty good marriage until she got sick. Is that the kind of guy you want? I know no one wants to think that they too can get sick. Any type of debilitating illness can take over. Cancer is becoming more prevalent. Latest stats are 1 in 2 men and 1 in 3 women in their lifetimes. Those are damn scary odds. I see how it affects this population group every day. You've seen first hand how he handles illness. He explained away the picture of them holding hands as the kids requested it and he had no feeling behind it? But then you said they had a good marriage for the 1st 15 years until she got sick. It seems you now have the belief that people just fall in and out of love and that's normal. Are you going to feel the same way if he does that to you? It's a shame you view marriage as so transient, but I don't think you do. I think you would be pretty devastated if you were on the receiving end of being left.

 

We reap what we sow. That should have great, great meaning to you now.

 

I do hope you will look back on what you wrote and perhaps see with more clarity why you should stay far away from this.

Different Story

[hissunshine]

For those who suggested that it was wrong that I attend the funeral & wake and questioning whether he "invited" me or not, I ask that you go down to Hallmark and see if they make funeral invitation cards. Or maybe, you can stop and think that if funerals are by invitation only, why announcement are put in the newspaper.

 

I went to the wake, hugged MM, said hi to his kids and extended my condolences after being introduced to them and left. He thanked me for coming. The whole thing took about 10 minutes. I attended the funeral with common co-workers, hugged him on the way out as he was standing at the exit, again he thanked me for coming and I left. He texted me again thanking me for attending, that it was good to see me. THAT'S IT!

 

Anyway, this is my last post. I would stay on Loveshack if I wanted to continue to be judged and told that I should pay for what I did to her but quite frankly, I beat myself up enough that I don't need bitter, judgemental people to do it for me. I have received good advice on here from some people and in many cases "tough love" was given in a very constructive and supportive manner but the others should not judge others unless they have walked a mile in their shoes.

 

Goodbye!

[whichwayisup]

Wish you wouldn't leave. If you need an ear, feel free to PM me anytime.

 

Good luck, you're on a difficult path right now and this won't be easy at all. You are doing the right thing by doing NC, especially since he's an emotional mess. His whole world has changed on so many levels, plus he's dealing with not only the loss of his wife, but also how he has lived a lie and lied to her for so long. She died believing something and in someone that wasn't what she thought he was. That guilt he is feeling and grief? Will eat him up so I hope he is seeking grief counseling and is completely HONEST during his sessions.

 

Focus on you, your life, friends and other family - Let him be alone and sort out things on his own. I know you love him and want to help but there isn't a thing you can do for him.. If anything, it'll probably make things worse if you two are in contact or seeing one another, even as friends.

[SidLyon]

Sadly, W passed away about two weeks ago. I attended the wake and funeral. MM was really happy to see me and introduced me to his children as his really good friend. At the funeral, he was very much a mess. His grief was very obvious. I felt very bad for him, his children and her family.

 

So now, he has asked for some time. I understand this as I know that he needs time to grieve and be there for his kids while they try and adjust to life without their mom.

 

I have never been an insecure person. I realize that I have a great deal of things going for me but these past two years have done a number on me. While I know that MM loves me, I realize that its so important that he close this chapter of his life in order for him (and us) to move forward in the future. I also realize that him taking time has really nothing to do with his feelings about me but I find myself constantly worrying that he is not going to come back at some point and do what he has spent the past two years telling me about. My therapist has told me that while he has gotten out of making a choice for the past two years, there is going to come a time in the future when he is going to have to make one - to be or not to be with me. This scares me for some reason...even if logic tells me this is not a rational fear.

 

So, my question is to OWs who have been in a similar situation or where their MMs have gotten divorced. Did you ever feel that he wouldn't choose you? Have you ever felt unusually insecure when faced with an actual, concrete point in the future where your MM is no longer a MM anymore?

 

To the bitter BSs, please do not respond to this thread if you are not going to add constructive comments to it...Thanks.

 

I'm a BW and I can only tell you about my situation.

 

My H had an affair with a married OW whose husband then died. My H went to the funeral.

 

Later we had a d-day and my H essentially threw the OW under the bus. At the time I couldn't understand why they didn't seize the opportunity (of her becoming single) to put into action all their plans of being together.

 

I can only think that somehow a death of a BS changes the affair dynamics.

[2sure]

It was me that asked if he requested you come the funeral.

I'm very aware that funerals are not invitation only. Who isn't?

 

The reason I asked is because under the circumstances of your relationship, I would have thought he called you to tell you she had passed and sought your support.

[Spark1111]

And hissunshine, I only posted from my sitch, and her attendence at my FIL's funeral proved, after dday, to be a huge misstep that greatly angered my children, who discovering who the OW was, believed it was hugely disrespectful to me.

 

And you know what. It was.