Realist3 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 it still is only 50 percent. Alway is, always has been, probably always will be. the other 50 percent seem to embrace just fine. doubt they have reason to post here at LS....just saying. Seem to... How many times do we hear about people fatasizing about others? What that is their natural attraction pulling them in a direction that they deny, or override due to expectations. The instinct is still there.
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 ^ Yes. It took a long long time for women to be able to demand monogamy. Yet here we are on a board where hundreds, if not thousands, of men and women detail their stories of breaking monogamy. It is not just the MM/MW, it is the OW/OM. Yes, things are changing. Women demand monogamy because we really do not want to share our provider, our protector with another and their subsequent children...Less resources to go around, less for our children. Less time, less protection, less provisions. But today, many of us can provide for our own. So the rules are changing. maybe be more of us are saying, be monogamous to me, or I WILL take HALF your resources for our clan. That, and my well-paying job should allow us to live quite nicely. And it is women who are filing for divorce in record numbers, like 70 percent. So many of the old evolutionary urges are changing as women are better able to provide and protect themselves and their clan. 2
Furious Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 I'm not talking about my goal, I'm speaking in general. Someone can have any number of goals. They may think that person is pretty or handsome; they may think this person provides financial security; it could be anything. And in pursuit of that goal they may decide to enter into an agreement of monogamy. That is what everyone is taught to do and expect, so they conform. If a relationship didn't involve paternity then there would be no need for monogamy. Realist you didn't answer my question. If you don't believe in monogamy then is it ok with you if your children are not biologically yours?
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Seem to... How many times do we hear about people fatasizing about others? What that is their natural attraction pulling them in a direction that they deny, or override due to expectations. The instinct is still there. All humans have natural attractions to people, all fantasize. It is how we choose our spouses, our friends, our favorite co-workers. nothing wrong with that. But to act on them comes at a cost, either emotional, financial, sexual, familial. It destabilizes the clan, pack, litter, nest. your spreading resources thin. no one can deny that. if the cost is worth it to you, then so be it. It was NEVER worth it to me. 1
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Seem to... How many times do we hear about people fatasizing about others? What that is their natural attraction pulling them in a direction that they deny, or override due to expectations. The instinct is still there. And so is the instincts to take half your resources is I feel my, our brood is threatened by your instincts with another who wants you to provide and protect her clan. A woman scorned in divorce court? THAT is evolutionary biology at it's finest, most primal.
eleanorrigby Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 And so is the instincts to take half your resources is I feel my, our brood is threatened by your instincts with another who wants you to provide and protect her clan. A woman scorned in divorce court? THAT is evolutionary biology at it's finest, most primal. lol I'm sitting here reading your posts and I keep hearing "haalllfff Eddie! I want half!" 3
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Actually, it was MEN who demanded monogamy from their women because they did not want to provide and protect another man's, a RIVAL for resources, progeny. Those laws and institutions were made, ALL by men to protect MEN. 2
Furious Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Actually, it was MEN who demanded monogamy from their women because they did not want to provide and protect another man's, a RIVAL for resources, progeny. Those laws and institutions were made, ALL by men to protect MEN. I doubt many men would choose another man's child to inherit their life's worth over their own biological child. Strange how men denounce monogamy but demand it of their wife.
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 I doubt many men would choose another man's child to inherit their life's worth over their own biological child. Strange how men denounce monogamy but demand it of their wife. Believe it or not, it was testing the effects of living close too those huge power lines in Switzerland in the 90's that was the eye-opener for sociologists and anthropologists. Scientists asked mothers to submit themselves and their children to genetic testing to see if the cancers and birth defects around the lines was effecting DNA strands. The study was flawed and incorrectly reported yes! power lines affect cancer rates. (Untrue! your hair dryer and cell phone emit more particles) BUT here was the stunner: Scientists discovered that one-third of all children tested did not belong to THEIR Biological fathers. it was the first time experts realized monogamy may not be a natural state for women either. Imagine that? 2
Furious Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 If a relationship didn't involve paternity then there would be no need for monogamy. Realist you didn't answer my question. If you don't believe in monogamy then is it ok with you if your children are not biologically yours? Still waiting for your answer.
Author promises Posted February 21, 2013 Author Posted February 21, 2013 Please explain. The fiercest, most dangerous animal in the kingdom, hands down, is a mama protecting her young. She kills with abandon, swiftly, quickly. Maternal instinct, procreating and protecting the progeny until maturity is one of the most powerful, primal urges there is. She will attack her mate if she senses he is a threat to THEIR offspring. If you do not think both men and women agonize over sharing resources of the clan, with another man or woman ( I.e., divorce) then you will never understand those who protect that at all costs. THAT IS AS PRIMAL as monogamy may be unnatural and those are maybe the two oldest and forever in conflict urges left over from when we were cave dwellers wielding jaw bones at our attackers. I would give my life for my children, however, looking at the basics, one man one woman, is monogamy realistic.
Author promises Posted February 21, 2013 Author Posted February 21, 2013 Also, biology is irrelevant within the discussion of children. A child is a child.
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 I would give my life for my children, however, looking at the basics, one man one woman, is monogamy realistic. maybe it is not realistic. but it is practical and was designed to ensure and protect procreation of the species until maturity and to ensure resources were appropriately allotted towards that goal. It's a choice always, and many a man and many a woman have chosen it, whether for moral, religious, financial and familial reasons. AND some of us fell deeply in love with our mates and never had a desire to look elsewhere or felt as much of a sexual spark with anyone that came close to our spouse.
Furious Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Also, biology is irrelevant within the discussion of children. A child is a child. For a mother yes, that's her baby...but for a man up until recently with DNA testing he relied on the belief his wife was faithful to him. 1
Author promises Posted February 21, 2013 Author Posted February 21, 2013 maybe it is not realistic. but it is practical and was designed to ensure and protect procreation of the species until maturity and to ensure resources were appropriately allotted towards that goal. It's a choice always, and many a man and many a woman have chosen it, whether for moral, religious, financial and familial reasons. AND some of us fell deeply in love with our mates and never had a desire to look elsewhere or felt as much of a sexual spark with anyone that came close to our spouse. I agree. When in love, there is one and only one in minds eye.
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 For a mother yes, that's her baby...but for a man up until recently with DNA testing he relied on the belief his wife was faithful to him. read a recent study by the evolutionary biologists that claimed the greatest indicator of a second marriage failing was a man having to raise a child not his biologically. to a mother, her baby is her baby, but for many men? Not so much, apparently, and it can be a huge stressor in blended families. 1
ComingInHot Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Atheists Scholar: Are you sure you're Not a believer in God or Divine Power?! The inherent Wisdom comes from where then? You have this Amazing insight that I doubt is Only from experience. Your nature to empathize, understand, reason, hope, care and advise has both Truly impressed me and confused me as these are traits that cannot co-exist within the construct of life w/out God. ON TOPIC: Nature Does Prove Monogamy for MANY species. It is the instinct to mate and breed with the best to produce the best w/out outside genetic interference tainting the product from said procreation. So then Also comes the hunting and murdering of outside leaches trying to breech the pack leaders in any way. As well as outside intruders trying to kill the genetic counterpart & young of the animal "power couple" to destroy what can be conceived as in their way to obtaining their station to further their genetic pool. In a very shallow and quick conclusion (leaving out a GREAT many More scenarios to support)... A. Monogamy good and natural for most animals B. Killing Wrong - but natural for most animals * I wish I had pages to show the documented proof of what I have procured from Science, Biology, Thermo genetics, archeology etc.. I think it's time for more cold medicine... oh Nyquil...where are you....*
Author promises Posted February 21, 2013 Author Posted February 21, 2013 read a recent study by the evolutionary biologists that claimed the greatest indicator of a second marriage failing was a man having to raise a child not his biologically. to a mother, her baby is her baby, but for many men? Not so much, apparently, and it can be a huge stressor in blended families. Sounds like a bunch of closed minded males in this study.
Furious Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 read a recent study by the evolutionary biologists that claimed the greatest indicator of a second marriage failing was a man having to raise a child not his biologically. to a mother, her baby is her baby, but for many men? Not so much, apparently, and it can be a huge stressor in blended families. I doubt that many men would unknowingly accept raising another man's child. How ironic that many WS's believe monogamy is un-natural unless it applies to their biological children. Why would a man marry a women if she could not guarantee that the children from that marriage may or may not be biologically his. Men claim that is natural to spread their seed, but in in their own garden they expect monogamy. My husband would be devastated if his children were not biologically his. 1
Realist3 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 If a relationship didn't involve paternity then there would be no need for monogamy. Realist you didn't answer my question. If you don't believe in monogamy then is it ok with you if your children are not biologically yours? I didn't answer it because I didn't see its relevance to the discussion of the expectation of monogamy. It would be fine with me. Just as if I were to adopt a child, which had been a consideration in years previous. I fail to see what that has to do with monogamy. There was something you mentioned earlier that I wanted to address, but forgot what it was. I will quote it if I can.
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 I doubt that many men would unknowingly accept raising another man's child. How ironic that many WS's believe monogamy is un-natural unless it applies to their biological children. Why would a man marry a women if she could not guarantee that the children from that marriage may or may not be biologically his. Men claim that is natural to spread their seed, but in in their own garden they expect monogamy. My husband would be devastated if his children were not biologically his. Evidenced ALL over these boards when many a man yells to paternity test after the wife has been unfaithful after a recent pregnancy and subsequent birth. 1
Realist3 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Are you sure you're Not a believer in God or Divine Power?! The inherent Wisdom comes from where then? You have this Amazing insight that I doubt is Only from experience. Your nature to empathize, understand, reason, hope, care and advise has both Truly impressed me and confused me as these are traits that cannot co-exist within the construct of life w/out God. Huh? Sure that can co-exist without a belief in God. Do you really believe that individuals are imparted wisdom by a supreme being that is sitting somewhere deciding which people will be granted a higher level of intelligence?
Furious Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Evidenced ALL over these boards when many a man yells to paternity test after the wife has been unfaithful after a recent pregnancy and subsequent birth. This just supports the notion that men are invested in monogamy much more than they claim to admit. 1
Realist3 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 This just supports the notion that men are invested in monogamy much more than they claim to admit. That is because women are notorious for trying to trap men with kids that aren't theirs. It has nothing to so with monogamy.
Furious Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 That is because women are notorious for trying to trap men with kids that aren't theirs. It has nothing to so with monogamy. But you just said it wouldn't matter if your children were not yours biologically. Also how can a woman trap a man with her pregnancy if it's about love and not paternity. You believe monogamy un-natural, that it's fabricated to suit religion and your community's expectations. How can you accuse women of trapping men with kids that aren't theirs if monogamy is un-natural. 1
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