If you were so inclined to write one final letter to your ex-MM, what would it say?

[BrokenPrincess]

Oh Stevie, I completely understand wanting to reach out but like the previous posters, I don't think you're being truly honest with yourself about why. You don't "intend" or "expect" to restart your A, but if you dig a little deeper, do you think it's because you HOPE he will respond with how much he loves you & can't live without you?

 

I found that was the real reason I wanted to send a letter to exMM.

 

Honestly, stubborn pride was the only thing that stopped me. I refuse to let him know how much he touched my life or how much I care about him. If he misses me and our amazing chemistry, he knows how to reach me. And he doesn't, so when I feel tempted, I remind myself that he is exactly where he wants to be.

 

I know that your MM said he had to stay with his W for insurance, but you know what? If this was truly a love story, he would figure out how to get insurance or demand that you move to his country. He's been married 5 times. He knows what to do.

 

Write the letter. Then write it again over & over til you feel like it's out. Then burn it, throw it away, get it out of your life. Listen to the most bittersweet Fleetwood Mac songs & sing along LOUD (that seems to help me )

[stevie_23]

Do you feel bad for your partner? A teeny bit?

 

If it was she that had done all this would you be OK with her making more contact with the other person?

 

Yeah, but if I don’t send it OUT there, it doesn’t MEAN anything. I already know how I feel, so…those symbolic gestures of writing a letter and then burning it? They just don’t mean anything to me.

 

My partner would never do anything like what I’ve done to her. Ever. So I can’t even imagine how I’d feel about that. And yes, of COURSE I feel bad for my partner! I have felt HIDEOUSLY guilty ever since the A started! Sometimes I’d come to bed and see her sleeping there peacefully and I’d cry because of how horrible I felt about what I was doing.

[stevie_23]

Oh Stevie, I completely understand wanting to reach out but like the previous posters, I don't think you're being truly honest with yourself about why. You don't "intend" or "expect" to restart your A, but if you dig a little deeper, do you think it's because you HOPE he will respond with how much he loves you & can't live without you?

 

I found that was the real reason I wanted to send a letter to exMM.

 

Honestly, stubborn pride was the only thing that stopped me. I refuse to let him know how much he touched my life or how much I care about him. If he misses me and our amazing chemistry, he knows how to reach me. And he doesn't, so when I feel tempted, I remind myself that he is exactly where he wants to be.

 

I know that your MM said he had to stay with his W for insurance, but you know what? If this was truly a love story, he would figure out how to get insurance or demand that you move to his country. He's been married 5 times. He knows what to do.

 

Write the letter. Then write it again over & over til you feel like it's out. Then burn it, throw it away, get it out of your life. Listen to the most bittersweet Fleetwood Mac songs & sing along LOUD (that seems to help me )

 

You know what, BrokenPrincess? When you asked if I really, deep down, wanted him to respond with how much she loves me and can’t live without me and all that, my first emotional reaction was stress and mild nausea and unpleasantness. So I really do NOT want that to happen out of this. If it did, I’d deal with it…but I don’t expect it to so I feel “safe” that it won’t happen. The reason for my unpleasant reaction to the thought of him writing back and telling me that is, as I said before, I already HAVE been told that by him. It doesn’t mean anything changes. It didn’t help me back when he told me that after he left me. Also, all it means is stress now. It wouldn’t have before, because we were ok for a long time before things got too hard. But now? We obviously can’t be together, and if he were to TRY again…it’d just end badly again, and I SO cannot take going through all of that again. God no. He still loves me but he can’t be with me, he knows that so he’s not going back there.

 

The thing also is, I WANT him to know (now, as opposed to before when things were ok with us) that he touched my life and my heart and that our time and him MEANT something that I will always remember fondly. I WANT him to know that, as I would like to think he feels about me too. Just because he doesn’t want to be with me in the way that we were before doesn’t negate that.

 

I know, if he really REALLY wanted to be with me, he’d find some sort of way. I know that of course. I do understand though. Because I’m the same. If I REALLY wanted to be with him, I could leave my partner and move to his country (the US). But…no. He would NEVER demand I move there. I never demanded he move here either (Australia), but he did volunteer early on that he would. So that was the eventual plan.

 

Fleetwood Mac. Yeah. I’ve found new and deep meaning in some of Stevie’s songs lately. They’re touring again later this year. Can’t WAIT to see them again. I always go and see them when they come.

[Sarabi]

Listen to the most bittersweet Fleetwood Mac songs & sing along LOUD (that seems to help me )

 

Yes!!! I am not an expert, I only have Rumours ("borrowed" from my mum:laugh:) and Tango in the Night but you will find some gems on there

Its not bittersweet but Isn't it midnight is a good one...as are go your own way and don't stop...and the chain

 

Fleetwood Mac are apt for you being as you are called Stevie

[Sarabi]

I’ve found new and deep meaning in some of Stevie’s songs lately.

 

Off topic slightly but my favourite solo of hers is Edge of Seventeen

You are so lucky to be going to their show... am jealous, get me a ticket!!!

[sb129]

I'm sure he knows he touched your life- you must have told him while the A was going on.

 

I don't think he would give that much of a monkeys though. He's moved on.

[stevie_23]

LOL. My name on here is actually "in honour" of Stevie Nicks.

 

I've seen Fleetwood Mac twice (this year will be the third time), and Stevie 3 times in solo shows. Amazing each and every time. LOVE them and LOVE her.

 

The songs from them that are speaking to me right now most of all are Silver Springs and Planets of the Universe. I'd never really listened to that one before but...yeah. It's relevant.

[stevie_23]

I'm sure he knows he touched your life- you must have told him while the A was going on.

 

I don't think he would give that much of a monkeys though. He's moved on.

 

 

He wouldn’t DO anything about it, but he WOULD give a monkey’s, so to speak. Lol. I know he would.

 

And yes, of course I told him during the A, but I ALSO wasn’t always the most patient and understanding woman in the world either, and was verbally hurtful to him many times. I want him to know based on things as they stand NOW that there are no hard feelings and I STILL love him (that because of how things ended, I don’t hate him), etc. Obviously a LOT has changed since during the A in terms of us and I want him to know that how I DID feel back then still stands.

[stevie_23]

Off topic slightly but my favourite solo of hers is Edge of Seventeen

You are so lucky to be going to their show... am jealous, get me a ticket!!!

 

HAHAH! If you lived in Brisbane, Australia, I would! Lol

 

Last time they came here which was a few years ago, we got seats in the 5th row (NOT cheap!!!) and it was fantastic!

 

In December 2011 Stevie came here on her solo tour and played a place called Riverstage, which was a really nice outdoor venue. It was a perfect night. No rain, not too hot, no bugs, Stevie was amazing as always. PERFECTION.

 

The time before, we saw her twice in one week as she played Brisbane and closer to where we live (on the Gold Coast, which is like Australia’s version of Miami in a way). We called it “The Week of Stevie” and it was magical. Took the week off work for it even though there were only 2 shows, heheh. Who can work when you’re in the mystical Stevie cloud!?!?!

 

Every time I see them or her, I ALWAYS end up in tears at least once because I just love those songs and they have such a presence and aura about them…

[stevie_23]

I just had a thought I’d never had before (WOW! Imagine that! Lol)

 

My ex-MM…he told me a long ago he wanted us to be real and to not just be online / with other partners. He would get worried that I seemed fairly content to ONLY be online / in an A. I was NOT content, but couldn’t see that we’d be properly together any time soon (unless he took the steps to leave the situation he was unhappy in and such first, come and visit me, and then if we worked out in person, I’d take my own steps to make us real and proper.) So I WAS ok with staying as we were UNTIL this stuff happened.

 

So. Now he’s ended it. Partly because he ONLY wanted us to be real. He didn’t WANT to be in an A anymore. Does that say anything even remotely “decent” about him in anyone's eyes?

[BrokenPrincess]

I pretty much live to bang on the steering wheel & sing along to Edge of Seventeen.

 

Post-A, I bawled through quite a few plays of Landslide and Silver Springs. I'm going to see the tour this year too, not with exMM as originally planned, but I'm still super excited

[Lillyfree]

I just had a thought I’d never had before (WOW! Imagine that! Lol)

 

My ex-MM…he told me a long ago he wanted us to be real and to not just be online / with other partners. He would get worried that I seemed fairly content to ONLY be online / in an A. I was NOT content, but couldn’t see that we’d be properly together any time soon (unless he took the steps to leave the situation he was unhappy in and such first, come and visit me, and then if we worked out in person, I’d take my own steps to make us real and proper.) So I WAS ok with staying as we were UNTIL this stuff happened.

 

So. Now he’s ended it. Partly because he ONLY wanted us to be real. He didn’t WANT to be in an A anymore. Does that say anything even remotely “decent” about him in anyone's eyes?

 

actions, stevie - not words.

 

he told you what you wanted to hear, then went and married another woman.

 

that act in itself is abhorrent, as he did it for financial gain. ack.

or maybe he truly loves her and was only saying he did it for insurance so that you feel better about his marriage.

either way, he is a liar/user. and not very decent at all.

[stevie_23]

LadyGrey, my signature. I had that signature on the music forum I’m on (that he’s no longer on), but I changed it 2 days ago to something else “All Things Must Pass” (George Harrison song). I intend to change my signature here too. Just so you know that at least.

 

He won’t re-commit to his wife. It’s been done between them for ages. He just isn’t interested and hasn’t been really for a very long time (if ever). (He’s got money NOW, by the way, and he would’ve had money before he chose to leave that behind and be with her to pay for her kids to get through college, etc)

 

I do think if he’d been with me, we would’ve been good. He said he wanted to support ME (though that couldn’t happen of course, being 61. No jobs here for “aged” people).

 

I did indeed do my own deceiving and avoiding, of course. This is also why I feel I’m WORSE than him in a way. He was seemingly unhappy in his life there. He planned to leave his partner. I did not. When I think of the fact he was cheating and lying to his wife, this sounds on paper like a bad person. But then look at me? How can I peg him as bad and undeserving of love and respect and NOT think the same thing of myself?

 

Yes, I would be letting him move on. Of course he can move on whenever he wants. Of course he didn’t ask ME for “permission” to move on. But I feel he will be HAPPIER moving on if I do this (but of course, I’m not doing it FOR him. God no)

 

In terms of those married men online. Both their wives DO know about our friendships and are fine with it. The one who I flirt with a little, he’s the one who has a 2 year long online relationship with another girl and his wife knows about that, as well as the fact he has sexual escapades online with random other women. The other guy, the totally platonic one, his wife knows of me as his friend, because that’s what we are.

 

And my partner knows of both these guys, yes.

 

In terms of hiding things from her, I’ve become used to that, and not just things that I think would be “cheating” or betrayal. I smoked secretly for a year before I came clean about that, because she disapproved. I did some other stuff (nothing to do with cheating or infidelity, but an income earning thing) online that I took a while to tell her about, but I did eventually tell her and she was fine with it.

 

I am also VERY used to lying and hiding. My first relationship with a woman…I hid it from my parents and some of our friends because being gay was not approved of. My current partner now, I hid from my parents for years before again, a lesbian relationship AND she was 17 years older than me so again, disapproval. MUCH guilt was felt over these things (not intrinsic guilt because I knew there was nothing wrong with any of it, but I hated feeling that if my parents knew, they’d be disappointed in me or would disown me or something. Wouldn’t love me for being ME.) Then my A, again, more secrets, lies and guilt.

 

So I’ve just never been able to be open with much of anything, and eventually I guess that sets patterns that become somewhat ingrained in your head and are hard to let go of or even notice if they escalate.

 

And yes indeed, I’ve always been my own worst enemy, in many, many ways.

[stevie_23]

Lol. I’ve actually been shaken before (not “virtually”). My first partner got so frustrated with me once when I was in an irrational outburst mood (having a tantrum, basically) she shook me by the shoulders and said “STOP IT!” Made me laugh.

 

Anyway, I’m sorry I frustrate you. I also frustrate myself. I worry that I am incredibly mentally…skewed, I suppose. Sometimes I feel like I know everything, understand everything, understand everyone, can give quite decent advice and words of wisdom, but can never live my own life in a proper way.

 

I haven’t even written that letter. I don’t have any plans on WHEN I will write it, if I do.

 

How do I be real and authentically me? I don't even know who I am.

 

Remember how I told you my dad was an alcoholic? Yep. No abuse, but witnessed him verbally abusing my mum regularly (he never turned on me, but I’d wish he would because it would’ve hurt me less to take it myself as opposed to watching her have to take it)

[18Years2Late]

I would never talk to or write to my xMM even if he had the last kidney on earth and I needed a transplant...I'd die 1st...and not have 1 regret about it...

 

Now I do have sick twisted fantasies of him contacting me and everything I will say to his sorry a$$...which hopefully will NEVER happen...but if I wrote it out here it would all be *******'s and might get me a few days in LS time-out so you'll just have to use ur imagination...

[18Years2Late]

Ahhh, now I remember, I'm sorry I forgot.

 

That explains so much and it also has everything to do with you not knowing who you are. Please google children of alcoholic characteristics. You will have an ahhhh haaa moment. Below are some things, of course all won't apply. Pay particular attention to the bolded. Witnesses an alcoholic drown in their drink and the way they treat people they profess to love is abuse in my opinion.

 

Become approval seekers

Be frightened of angry people

Be terrified of personal criticism

Become alcoholics, marry them or both

View life as a victim

Have an overwhelming sense of responsibility

Be concerned more with others than themselves

Feel guilty when they stand up for themselves

Become addicted to excitement

Confuse love and pity

'Love' people who need rescuing

Stuff their feelings

Lose the ability to feel

Have low self-esteem

Judge themselves harshly

Become terrified of abandonment

Do anything to hold on to a relationship

Become "para-alcoholics" without drinking

Become reactors instead of actors

Often, adult children of alcoholics will take on the characteristics of alcoholics, even though they have never picked up a drink - exhibiting denial, poor coping skills, poor problem solving, and forming dysfunctional relationships.

Adult Children:

 

...guess at what normal is.

...have difficulty in following a project through from beginning to end.

 

...lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.

 

...judge themselves without mercy.

 

...are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that loyalty is undeserved.

 

...tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsivity leads to confusion, self loathing, and loss of control of their environment. As a result, they spend tremendous amounts of time cleaning up the mess.

 

This is me and I don't drink...I mean I drink but only on occasion and not that much...

 

My dad was an alcoholic...but he wasn't abusive to me or my mother...my mother was far more "emotionally" abusive...and I think my dad drank to put up with her for so long...still puts up with her today...so I wonder why children of alcoholics have those characteristics u list (like me) when there was no "abuse" from the actual alcoholic?...Hmmmm...

[stevie_23]

Ahhh, now I remember, I'm sorry I forgot.

 

That explains so much and it also has everything to do with you not knowing who you are. Please google children of alcoholic characteristics. You will have an ahhhh haaa moment. Below are some things, of course all won't apply. Pay particular attention to the bolded. Witnesses an alcoholic drown in their drink and the way they treat people they profess to love is abuse in my opinion.

 

Become approval seekers (I would outwardly deny this, but yes, it’s true)

Be frightened of angry people (I have no fear. I believe my own anger would trump their’s and THEY would have reason to be scared of ME)

 

Be terrified of personal criticism (related to the first point. If I am criticized, I feel unworthy as a person and embarrassed to be who I am)

Become alcoholics, marry them or both

 

View life as a victim

 

Have an overwhelming sense of responsibility (in a way, yes, but also in a way, I try to completely AVOID responsibility because I can’t deal with it)

Be concerned more with others than themselves

 

Feel guilty when they stand up for themselves

 

Become addicted to excitement (I didn’t realise this, but it’s true. I get bored easily. Even when I was in my A, I sometimes would feel bored if things were too stable for a while and would create issues)

Confuse love and pity (maybe. I was wondering if I am only drawn to older men because in a way, I pity them. This sucks because it seems rude and cruel, but it’s not meant to be. It’s most likely due to my own lack of self worth and confidence)

'Love' people who need rescuing (to an extent, yes)

Stuff their feelings (does this mean stuff them down? Avoid expressing them? If so, yes)

Lose the ability to feel (sometimes since I was about 16 I’ve wondered if I know HOW to feel naturally anymore, or if I’m always so aware of how I’m being perceived that I think too much before I show anything and thus, nothing is natural or how I REALLY feel…because I forgot how to tell how I really feel a long time ago)

Have low self-esteem (of course)

Judge themselves harshly (yes, but I also ignore this a lot and let myself get away with anything because I justify it all)

Become terrified of abandonment (yes. I always wondered why I was like this, because nobody’s really ever left me until my ex)

Do anything to hold on to a relationship (well, yes, it seems so)

Become reactors instead of actors (yeppo)

Often, adult children of alcoholics will take on the characteristics of alcoholics, even though they have never picked up a drink - exhibiting denial, poor coping skills, poor problem solving, and forming dysfunctional relationships (SO me)

 

Adult Children:

 

...guess at what normal is

 

...have difficulty in following a project through from beginning to end (this is SO me. I just get bored)

 

...lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth (I’ve been like this since I was about 7 years old)

 

...judge themselves without mercy

 

...are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that loyalty is undeserved (I am selective with my loyalty, but once it’s there, it’s THERE. I have noticed also, ever since I was a kid, I always felt bad for the “bad guy” in movies, because although he was bad, I didn’t want him to FEEL bad. I definitely felt the same way about my dad when my mum would be angry at my dad after he’d been drunk – once he was sober the next day I mean. I felt bad for them both in different ways.)

 

...tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsivity leads to confusion, self loathing, and loss of control of their environment. As a result, they spend tremendous amounts of time cleaning up the mess.

 

Well well. The bolded stuff and comments is the stuff I am AWARE of.

[Washingmachine1980]

Please don't send him this letter. In a year or so, you will regret that you did. When my relationship ended due to his D-Day, I wrote the beautiful email. I had never written anything like that to anyone before. All I got in return was crickets. I was suicidial when I met him. He has no idea, guess he just saw an easy target. He gave me back my self-confidence and so forth. I was always planning on telling him what he had done for me but the opportunity never came up so I sent that email in the end. Wish I wouldn't now. I sent one a couple hours later saying that I was worried about his wife ruining my life and he replied back to that one ASAP.

[stevie_23]

MFH70, I see your point. I do know, however, that he will never be transparent, and that’s a shame. I guess I AM still in that mindset, but as I said somewhere (can’t remember if it’s in this thread or not), I am SO used to not being transparent either, in ways that aren’t even that bad or bad at all, that I can’t even COMPREHEND being transparent. To my own people, let alone someone I’ve never met and don’t even know.

 

Washingmachine…hmm. So he responded to the practical email but not the beautiful email? That’s…interesting.

 

I AM actually reconsidering sending it. Even writing it. I’ve revised my attitude now to…maybe one day I will write it. But I may not send it. So…yeah. That’s where I am right now.

[Journee]

Stevie

 

You are so candid and self aware here. You are honest about your short comings and imperfections. You are able to put finger on what is broken. Why not make it a task to work on those things? We all could benefit from self reflection. You seen to almost just accept the negative things you admit here. "Yep, I'm a liar. I lie." That's not who you are. You can work on those things Stevie.

 

This letter just helps you "lie" again. Didn't you communicate to his wife that she didn't have to worry about further contact? To turn around and take that back is a giant step backwards.

 

You can work on being and honest person. There obviously is a, lot of pain that comes with deception. You may even lie to yourself....

[stevie_23]

It’s so easy for me to see objectively problems and to explain and understand feelings and behaviours, in myself and others (sometimes in others), but…to actually take ACTION? Ugh, that’s a total other story. It’s either way too hard, too scary, too painful, or I just don’t know what to actually DO.

 

Yeah, you’re right…certain things I DO accept as fact – that I find it easy to lie and have since I was a little kid, for example. I feel almost detached, as if I’m observing myself (and others) from afar and thus can make statements about myself and others that are pretty introspective and aware, but when it comes to really living? I don’t tend to do anything at all…

 

I don’t lie to myself actually. I seem to automatically correct myself if I start to, but then what I DO do is go into escapism mode. I hate being alone by myself with utter silence because then if I let myself think honestly and productively about my life and situation and feelings? It results in me feeling sick with stress. So…no lies, but escapism, definitely.