The last admission

[MissBee]

This was something I had decided I was never going to post, because it makes me look the ultimate in stupid, and it's something that has been bothering me a lot lately, from the ashes that resulted from the destruction of my affair.

 

I think it's something I need to admit though, and I keep telling myself that I need to accept it as being part of my stupidity but it is a bitter pill to swallow. I have decided not to beat myself up too much about it though, as I have my life now and money isn't what it's all about, and to just forget it and move on. Still...

 

Over the course of the A, I lent him money. As in, a lot of money. As in (after I totaled it all recently) somewhere north of $40,000. In cash. In several installments over the course of the years.

 

He was out of a job and I felt bad for him at the time. I didn't want he or his family to suffer. Even after we broke up and were trying to be "friends", I lent him money.

 

He never asked for it (not literally); I always offered it. But in hindsight, he manipulated the situation and my emotions by telling me of his grief and suffering, etc, and he knew I would offer.

 

I am not destitute. I am a physician but still, $40k is a lot of money to me. I am divorced and raising three teenagers. I worked mostly in the VA system, so I was not a high paid physician.

 

He has a high school education and didn't really work very hard to find a job. He was picky - only wanted a high-paying good job. The last I heard he was still unemployed.

 

At the time I tried to justify it to myself because I didn't want him or his W or family to lose their home. And they haven't - because of me. But I know I won't see a dime of that money again - can't get blood from a stone.

 

It's my fault, as I knew that going in. My heart was in it, though, and I kept thinking that I needed to be good to someone who I cared about who was going through a hard time, and needed the money more than I did.

 

Now it just makes me sick that I did it. The only thing I know to do at this point is to let go of it, though.

 

It's great that you're admitting this Tenacity. I think it will help you tremendously in your healing.

 

$40,000 is a lot! I have a question: was it ever discussed that it was a loan or was it simply offered and he assumed it was a gift? It doesn't really matter now anyway...but just curious. I don't think anyone should assume someone lending them thousands of dollars is a gift; however, there are people who will take and take and unless explicitly stated will not out of their own courtesy ever think to repay.

 

While I did not loan my AP anywhere near that amount. I did lend him about $700 and I was a college student! I'm actually also embarrassed to recount how some of that came about. But long story short, I didn't admit it for a long time either. I felt used. He has never given me back or brought it up. I tried to ask for it back twice, as it was specifically a loan, and he told me he'd pay me back as soon as XYZ was resolved. Never did. I was really upset at both the principle of it and the money itself for a long time. I felt he was selfish and used me. I did have to make peace with never getting that money back and learned my lesson and my own part in that. Sometimes if I thin about it, as I am now, I still get a little upset and it's embarrassing to me still but overall I made peace with that situation. I'm sure you're on your way too My mom also taught me later on that you should never lend more money than you can afford to lose. It makes sense!

Edited February 17, 2013 by MissBee

[Mount]

Remember the golden rule - a Man will never ask for help/$$ from a woman he is truly intereted in. I think I do not need to explain why anymore.

 

Mount - money was the least that I gave him. The most valuable thing I gave him was my heart.

[Tenacity]

Remember the golden rule - a Man will never ask for help/$$ from a woman he is truly intereted in. I think I do not need to explain why anymore.

 

Nope - no need to explain further or post on this thread anymore. Thanks Mount.

[Tenacity]

I have a question: was it ever discussed that it was a loan or was it simply offered and he assumed it was a gift? It doesn't really matter now anyway...but just curious.

 

It was discussed that it would be in the form of loans. I didn't ask for interest or put any payment terms on it though.

 

I did give him gifts too (both monetary and otherwise).

 

He actually hated taking the loans, but he had exhausted all other options at that point. His ego took a hit when that happened. One of the last things he said to me was that no matter what it took, he would pay it back. He has actually paid back about $2000 of it.

 

I don't think he manipulated me into doing it, like some men who are real players do. But I do think he definitely took advantage.

 

I don't expect to see the rest of it, as he doesn't have it and I don't see how he will ever have it in the future.

 

Live and learn...

[MissBee]

It was discussed that it would be in the form of loans. I didn't ask for interest or put any payment terms on it though.

 

I did give him gifts too (both monetary and otherwise).

 

He actually hated taking the loans, but he had exhausted all other options at that point. His ego took a hit when that happened. One of the last things he said to me was that no matter what it took, he would pay it back. He has actually paid back about $2000 of it.

 

I don't think he manipulated me into doing it, like some men who are real players do. But I do think he definitely took advantage.

 

I don't expect to see the rest of it, as he doesn't have it and I don't see how he will ever have it in the future.

 

Live and learn...

 

Oh okay, makes sense!

 

I think it's a case of getting in over your head. Where in reality you're lending someone who may have every intention of paying but who in fact cannot.

 

But it's still hard not to feel jipped, especially when things go south. In any case, yes we do live and learn.

[Tenacity]

:eek::eek:WOW!!!!!!!!

 

I know, right?

[MissBee]

It is perceived by outsider that I am having relationship with a MM, but I won't never give him $$, nor my heart at this point. And on the opposite, I need to continue letting him give his heart to me, and his everything else.

 

For example, this V day, he got me jewerlly but the value is only in 3 digits range. My expectation, or even myself buy gift to myself, will at least over 5000. So it is not because I need the man to buy me $$ stuff, it is because I need to him continue "investing" his emotion, heart...etc to acheive the final result.

 

You said you have 3 teenages, so you should have enough life experience.

 

 

What is this drivel???

 

In any case, clearly Tenacity is in a reflective position where she is looking back in retrospect and has learned from her mistakes, but wanted to talk it out. I'm not sure what you're on about though. You seem to be trying to scold her for something that she has already accepted ownership of...while you are here admitting you are in a "relationship" with a MM who you won't give money, won't give your heart, but want him to continue investing his heart to you and "everything else" . I have no clue what this means...but believe me...it sounds way more absurd than Tenacity's former situation.

 

Maybe you should make a new thread about this. It's fascinating.

[whichwayisup]

This was something I had decided I was never going to post, because it makes me look the ultimate in stupid, and it's something that has been bothering me a lot lately, from the ashes that resulted from the destruction of my affair.

 

I think it's something I need to admit though, and I keep telling myself that I need to accept it as being part of my stupidity but it is a bitter pill to swallow. I have decided not to beat myself up too much about it though, as I have my life now and money isn't what it's all about, and to just forget it and move on. Still...

 

Over the course of the A, I lent him money. As in, a lot of money. As in (after I totaled it all recently) somewhere north of $40,000. In cash. In several installments over the course of the years.

 

He was out of a job and I felt bad for him at the time. I didn't want he or his family to suffer. Even after we broke up and were trying to be "friends", I lent him money.

 

He never asked for it (not literally); I always offered it. But in hindsight, he manipulated the situation and my emotions by telling me of his grief and suffering, etc, and he knew I would offer.

 

I am not destitute. I am a physician but still, $40k is a lot of money to me. I am divorced and raising three teenagers. I worked mostly in the VA system, so I was not a high paid physician.

 

He has a high school education and didn't really work very hard to find a job. He was picky - only wanted a high-paying good job. The last I heard he was still unemployed.

 

At the time I tried to justify it to myself because I didn't want him or his W or family to lose their home. And they haven't - because of me. But I know I won't see a dime of that money again - can't get blood from a stone.

 

It's my fault, as I knew that going in. My heart was in it, though, and I kept thinking that I needed to be good to someone who I cared about who was going through a hard time, and needed the money more than I did.

 

Now it just makes me sick that I did it. The only thing I know to do at this point is to let go of it, though.

 

This just shows what a kind hearted and giving person you are! He was lucky to have had any type of support and friendship from you - ALL things considering. yes, he took advantage of your kindness and knew what buttons to push so you'd offer.

 

But, look at this way - As you are now - You did a good thing to help someone and it made a big difference in their lives - Even though his wife and kids won't ever know, YOU know.

 

I've been in your shoes in the sense of lending money to a friend and at the time I knew I'd never see any of it back. The friendship unfortunatey is over due to her taking advantage of my kindness and the money lending got out of control and later I found out that money wasn't going where it should have been going (that's a WHOLE other thread for another time) so my husband basically made me wake up and see that she was not who we though she was. Sad/long story short - I know for a while I did help her out but then she took advantage of me. Like you, I'll never see the money I lent her back.

[Mount]

It is just the relationship with a man, that is it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Havn't we seen millions/zillions cases in this worlds, lots of women pouring their hearts out, pouring themselves out because they don't understand, in relationship world, "give"=/= "be loved". Continuously giving themselve out will push their partner away faster than ever.

 

I did not scold T for sure, what I meant is that I just feel bad that she gave away her money to a man try to milk her while she was trying to get his heart.

 

 

 

What is this drivel???

 

In any case, clearly Tenacity is in a reflective position where she is looking back in retrospect and has learned from her mistakes, but wanted to talk it out. I'm not sure what you're on about though. You seem to be trying to scold her for something that she has already accepted ownership of...while you are here admitting you are in a "relationship" with a MM who you won't give money, won't give your heart, but want him to continue investing his heart to you and "everything else" . I have no clue what this means...but believe me...it sounds way more absurd than Tenacity's former situation.

 

Maybe you should make a new thread about this. It's fascinating.

[Pierre]

Thanks everyone for the replies I wish I could tell you how much better I feel after reading everything on this thread. I was definitely embarrassed to admit it, but now I don't feel stupid any longer and will just chalk it up to Lessons Learned.

 

Not sure how to describe this and not make it sound like I was trying to pay him to stay with me - but for me it was way less about the money and more that I considered it to be something from the heart that I was doing for him. Yet for him it was just the money. It was just more evidence of the rejection. I don't know if that makes sense.

 

Thank you again - I was almost afraid to read the responses - I am sorry that others have had this experience too, but I am glad not to be alone in it.

 

Tenacity:

 

I think it was about your validation. Picking a man from a much lower socio economic level with no education gave you a greater sense of validation. Helping him out with money was very gratifying for you. You and I are a lot alike. I love to spend money on people, but it is more than generosity, I get some validation in return.

 

The question that begs an answer is why to these cheating MM types take money from women like you and others. That you gave him money is not surprising and I do not fault you for that. What is really grotesque us that he TOOK the money.

 

I strongly believe you have low self esteem and this is how you handle it. Spending the money and finding a man that is a billion miles below your league. Please, do not take this as harsh criticism. I did the same thing myself. It was convenient to have a a first wife from the blue collar world even though I came from white collar. It was easy and I felt like a trophy. I am sure you wanted to feel like a trophy to combat your low self esteem.

 

And as I said before a Harvard lawyer can have lower self esteem than the guy that mows your lawn. I wish I could find the cure for low self esteem.

 

But, the past is the past and now you are on the right track.

 

I hope you don't feel I am attacking you and go on defense mode. That in itself is a sign of insecurity,

Edited February 17, 2013 by Pierre

[Tenacity]

Tenacity:

 

I think it was about your validation. Picking a man from a much lower socio economic level with no education gave you a greater sense of validation. Helping him out with money was very gratifying for you. You and I are a lot alike. I love to spend money on people, but it is more than generosity, I get some validation in return.

 

The question that begs an answer is why to these cheating MM types take money from women like you and others. That you gave him money is not surprising and I do not fault you for that. What is really grotesque us that he TOOK the money.

 

I strongly believe you have low self esteem and this is how you handle it. Spending the money and finding a man that is a billion miles below your league. Please, do not take this as harsh criticism. I did the same thing myself. It was convenient to have a a first wife from the blue collar world even though I came from white collar. It was easy and I felt like a trophy. I am sure you wanted to feel like a trophy to combat your low self esteem.

 

And as I said before a Harvard lawyer can have lower self esteem than the guy that mows your lawn. I wish I could find the cure for low self esteem.

 

But, the past is the past and now you are on the right track.

 

I hope you don't feel I am attacking you and go on defense mode. That in itself is a sign of insecurity,

 

I was waiting for this

 

I definitely have no qualms admitting that I had (past tense) low self-esteem when all of this was going on.

 

As for my picking him to elevate myself (I think that's how you said it) - and to also respond to a similar question from a previous poster in this thread - I didn't pick him based on his having or not having an education. I don't see people who are educated as necessarily being in a different league (for lack of a better term) than those who aren't. I have in fact met many educated people who are dumber than a load of bricks (in my opinion).

 

Because he was uneducated we had different career aspirations, but in every other respect we were similar. In fact, he was one of the brightest and most intelligent people l know - more so than I am. He just did not happen to be formally educated and was instead self-taught.

 

So, I didn't ever see myself as better than him for that - it honestly was a non-issue that I didn't think about very often. But I do see how it would definitely look like that from the outside.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[Tenacity]

Thanks again to everyone who replied, and for the support. It means more than I can say.

[Pierre]

 

Because he was uneducated we had different career aspirations, but in every other respect we were similar. In fact, he was one of the brightest and most intelligent people l know - more so than I am. He just did not happen to be formally educated and was instead self-taught.

 

So, I didn't ever see myself as better than him for that - it honestly was a non-issue that I didn't think about very often. But I do see how it would definitely look like that from the outside.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Same here! I never felt superior or better. I also measured intelligence as you do. I had no issues marrying down at all. At the time I didn't think I was doing that. More importantly she made me feel good, no different than you.

 

And to top that she was the most amazing wife any man could have. But, I can see this in retrospect. At the time it felt quite normal and I almost had 100% success in my marriage. I believe i was happy most of the time.

 

However, I did not accept crappy behavior and you did. And that is the other question that begs self analysis. When I hear you tell the story I cannot imagine how you put up with this man.

[Tenacity]

Same here! I never felt superior or better. I also measured intelligence as you do. I had no issues marrying down at all. At the time I didn't think I was doing that. More importantly she made me feel good, no different than you.

 

And to top that she was the most amazing wife any man could have. But, I can see this in retrospect. At the time it felt quite normal and I almost had 100% success in my marriage. I believe i was happy most of the time.

 

However, I did not accept crappy behavior and you did. And that is the other question that begs self analysis. When I hear you tell the story I cannot imagine how you put up with this man.

 

But she didn't give you crappy behavior, unless I'm missing something (you said she was the most amazing wife any man could have). My problem at the time was that he spent a lot of effort and time convincing me that I was the one with the problem.

 

At this point I cannot imagine how I put up with him either.

[Catplates]

Nope - no need to explain further or post on this thread anymore. Thanks Mount.

 

Think Mount has said sufficient... having accepted jewellery herself.

[LFH]

Remember the golden rule - a Man will never ask for help/$$ from a woman he is truly intereted in. I think I do not need to explain why anymore.

You have some truly bizarre ideas of what it means to have a real relationship.

 

:eek::eek:WOW!!!!!!!!

I know right? I always forget she's in it for the money and gifts she gets out of it.

 

 

What is this drivel???

 

In any case, clearly Tenacity is in a reflective position where she is looking back in retrospect and has learned from her mistakes, but wanted to talk it out. I'm not sure what you're on about though. You seem to be trying to scold her for something that she has already accepted ownership of...while you are here admitting you are in a "relationship" with a MM who you won't give money, won't give your heart, but want him to continue investing his heart to you and "everything else" . I have no clue what this means...but believe me...it sounds way more absurd than Tenacity's former situation.

 

Maybe you should make a new thread about this. It's fascinating.

It's something... don't know if fascinating is the word.

[Catplates]

Same here! I never felt superior or better. I also measured intelligence as you do. I had no issues marrying down at all. At the time I didn't think I was doing that. More importantly she made me feel good, no different than you.

 

And to top that she was the most amazing wife any man could have. But, I can see this in retrospect. At the time it felt quite normal and I almost had 100% success in my marriage. I believe i was happy most of the time.

 

However, I did not accept crappy behavior and you did. And that is the other question that begs self analysis. When I hear you tell the story I cannot imagine how you put up with this man.

 

There is more to a person than a piece of paper from a university.

Some of the biggest bastards and drongos I have known have several pieces of paper to say they are smart.

 

I also have several but it doesn't make me good or smart or better than anybody else.

 

Cat

[Pierre]

But she didn't give you crappy behavior, unless I'm missing something (you said she was the most amazing wife any man could have). My problem at the time was that he spent a lot of effort and time convincing me that I was the one with the problem.

 

At this point I cannot imagine how I put up with him either.

 

She was a great wife because she wanted recognition, attention, and admiration. As I recall you were also an very good wife. Some of us (you and me included) cannot say not or want to be the good guys all the time. It all goes back to the same thing.

 

It all goes back to how those that need external validation find each other.

 

The OW wants the best boy friend and romantic man ( a cheating MM ) and the cheating MM wants to find a woman that is actually receptive to his charm and smooth words. These two want the same! The method to get there is different, but it works for both.

 

And when the need for validation is high reasoning goes out the window. This gives true meaning to the phrase being in love is to act like a complete fool.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Pierre

[awkward]

I am so happy that you were able to get this off your chest. You have been through the ringer with this relationship. IMO you have come out of it a better person. Maybe poorer, but better.

 

I bet you have helped many OW just by this thread alone.

[stevie_23]

Ahhh. All I can say is, it’s done. You made that choice to help someone you loved. That’s not a bad reflection on you. If he manipulated you, this is a poor reflection on HIM.

 

When my ex-MM and I were together, we both said a few times if we came into a sum of money we would give some to each other. Both of us felt the same. I knew he meant it, and I did too. At the time of meeting, I had more money than him. I had about $25,000 or so in savings, owned my own home (with a mortgage, blegh) and he had NO money because he had chosen to throw away his former company to save his wife’s failing company. Now? I’ve gone down in my savings (nothing to do with him) and he’s got a stable office job for the first time in his life paying $55,000 a year.

 

If things were different and we were still together, I strongly believe that he wouldn’t give me money at this point because most of his money goes into the “family” account to support the household and his wife’s 3 adult kids who suck them dry by not working and just eating them out of house and home. But if he came into some money on TOP of those earnings, and he was able to get it to me without his wife knowing, he would do so. This means nothing though because she always WOULD know. She knows everything, sees everything. Ugh.

 

Anyway, my point is that when you love someone you want to help them and you don’t really let yourself belief they’re using you (either maliciously or consciously or not).

[2sure]

You know what? Don't beat yourself up about it. The experience has taught you hard life lessons that you are gong to refer to while moving forward , and giving advice to those you love. The experience, and your walking away from it has given you the knowledge that...just because it's hard doesn't mean you can't do it.

 

Sure, 40g's is a lot of money . It's a year of tuition.

Consider yourself a graduate of the school of hard knocks!

Hey, it's a bargain. So many people never move on.