Stbx wants to move back in "temporarily" (w some backstory about emotional abuse)

[Fallen Petals]

Basically here it is - we've been married nearly our entire adult lives, have two children getting close to the teen years, and we separated over 2 months ago. For the first 8 years my husband was horribly verbally and emotionally abusive. I contributed to our problems in my own ways, but sometime during that 8th year I snapped. I wound up having two A's with two coworkers. One was a semi relationship and the other was a much shorter fling where I wasn't exactly consenting, but also was not forceful enough about my not wanting to be involved. I came clean very quickly about this and my H seemed to snap into action - he bought books on how to "affair proof" the M, did research into various psychological disorders from which he might suffer that could explain his behavior, we entered MC and IC each. In my sessions my therapist told me I was so manipulated by this man that I had been trying to find my way out. In MC they told us we communicated just fine, but there was no follow through on H's part and I needed to improve my self esteem to be strong enough not to repeat my mistakes. We agreed to put the past where it belonged and move forward. I explained if he didn't get high, misuse narcotics, drink, call me names, cut himself, etc etc, that I would stay. He explained that if I didn't flirt, lie, cheat, he would stay. We also agreed we were rebuilding what we'd each had our parts in tearing down, though admittedly I always felt I had the bigger blow to the relationship. He said if he ever began to become that man again, he'd leave. I said if I ever felt I would cheat again, I'd leave.

 

If you have never heard instructions on how to boil a live frog, let me tell you now. You see, if the water is already hot and you throw the frog in, he will jump out. If you make the water and comfortable temperature though, he will sit in it and enjoy his bath. Slowly increase the heat over time and he will never realize how hot it's getting in time to jump out - he will boil and die. I am that frog. My M is that water. After the first 6 months or so of healing and progressing, we had a great marriage. He was wonderful - the man I had always seen in him but wondered why he couldn't come out. We were both SO happy. For the most part our sex life was great, with a few dips and valleys from time to time (I have a higher sex drive, so any dry spells became a topic of conversation for us eventually). We communicated so well, had safe words during arguments, listening techniques...we weren't perfect, but we were both content and happy and satisfied. I don't know what happened...he stopped working, he became depressed...he began looking at porn all the time and not wanting to have sex with me very much...I tried to talk to him, but we didn't seem to make and progress. The names came back, the awful things he said to me. The fights got longer. Over the next 4 years The "good patches" got shorter and the "bad patches" grew again. Then I found out about narcotics. He was self medicating - anything he could get his hands on, even ordering things or buying them from people....One day he came in and told me I needed to take him to the hospital - he was afraid he'd overdosed on painkillers. On the way home from the ER to get my children and get them to a friends house, I cried. I knew I couldn't stay in the M any longer. I felt as if I was dying a slow and excruciating death - locked in a cage I had crawled into voluntarily. Our debts had grown - with him not working I couldn't keep up. We were losing our home and he had opened lines of credit I didn't even know about. As I found out all of this, we had begun a plan to move in with family who offered support several states away from where we were living. I began to doubt that plan, said I wanted to stay, leave the house, get a smaller place, that on what I made I could support us if we didn't have such a high mortgage. Then I decided I was going to leave him, that I could support the kids and myself and he could figure out whatever he needed to figure out. He talked me into moving anyway, said it was my family we were moving in with, so the kids and I were covered no matter what. He would seek counselling and we'd be fine. A few months before we moved one of my close friends confided in me that she thought her husband had a wandering eye. She said of all of her friends, I was the only one she'd trust to have a fling with him because she knew I'd never really want him. So basically she gave he and I the green light for an A. And boy was he gung ho! He's definitely a serial cheater - the more I've gotten to know him the more I can see he will never stop wandering from his W. She knows it, though, so it's her choice to stay. We saw each other a few times, messed around quite a bit, but only actually had sex twice. Once was a movie night they invited me for, she made out with me, then decided she was tired and went to bed, telling him to have fun...she and I have never spoken of that night and he and I still communicate, but that part of our relationship is over. We give each other advice, and we've become friends in a unique way. Two months after moving my H got physical with me during a fight. It wasn't the first time - he's never hit me, but had done other things throughout the years...this was different though, more aggressive. I told him we were done and he needed to leave. I didn't tell him about my A, but instead told him I wasn't strong enough to stop myself from having one if the opportunity arose. I was afraid the guilt would be a crutch to stay again. He left, moved back to where we'd come from...just like that. Not long after he left my friend convinced me to join a dating site because lack of sex was driving me nuts. H always did accuse me of being a sex addict. Within hours of being on the site I had suitors, so I chose one who I got along with really well and we started our fwb. Which turned into a full blown A with emotional attachment and everything else. He swept me off my feet. I was honest with him about my past, about my situation, and he was honest that he was married. Well it lasted under two months before he told his W he was in love with another woman and leaving her - and she told him not to go, so he didn't. Ouch. About a week after that very recent bu I told my H about it. He had already admitted to having a fling with one of my gf's close to where he's living. He knew we were going to divorce, so I really didn't think of his fling or mine as cheating - and neither did he.

 

So - brings us full circle. He says I was a terrific wife. I am going to IC here, so he believes that will help my self esteem issues which is why I rely so heavily on sex. He swears he'll go to IC out here, but says he misses the kids and so much he wants to come back, stay with us, get on his feet with my help and start completely over. Not rebuilding - that M is gone - but restarting from scratch. Dating me. Getting to know me again, and me getting to know him. Putting it out there what we will and won't accept.

 

I feel like we've had so many "wake up" calls and so many chances at this...I mean I love him and I miss him in many ways, but in others I feel so unburdened, like I'm finally beginning to understand why I have done things I have done, who I am a little bit more. I really have a hard time abstaining, but maybe for now it's what I need to do to learn about myself rather than using sex as a band aid for my other issues...and how can I know he's really going to be the man that I need in my life?

 

I'm so conflicted...I need better coping mechanisms, and he needs to refrain from abusive behavior...can we really expect that to happen and be together? Or should we take more time apart - knowing that being better people and better for our children is more important than being together and just avoiding the pits of loneliness and co-dependency??

[Mack05]

You are not going to like this so feel free to abuse the crap out of me. This is a train wreck Fallen Petal. Think of your kids. Would you want a marriage like this for them? This is a toxic union with two very emotionally unhealthy peope and while I'm sure there would be a nice honeymoon period if you gave it another go, I would be stunned if his would be a happy peaceful union going forward..Couples can promise change all they want but if something is broken beyond repair, all they are doing is fooling themselves.

 

You need to put the kids first. Who knows how much emotional damage has been done already. While I'm sure you tried to hide a lot from them, kids pickup an awful lot.

 

That story of the affair with your friend and her H? My god what kind of friendship and marriage is that!? I thought it was the script of a cheap porno movie when I was reading it.

 

I think you need to focus on you outside of a relationship. You need to do this to be he best mom you can be for your kids. Bringing back toxicity to the house will only have negative effects for the future. There is only so long you should flog a dead horse...

Edited February 15, 2013 by Mack05

[Fallen Petals]

You are not going to like this so feel free to abuse the crap out of me. This is a train wreck Fallen Petal. Think of your kids. Would you want a marriage like this for them? This is a toxic union with two very emotionally unhealthy peope and while I'm sure there would be a nice honeymoon period if you gave it another go, I would be stunned if his would be a happy peaceful union going forward..Couples can promise change all they want but if something is broken beyond repair, all they are doing is fooling themselves.

 

So...at the risk of sounding unbelievably stupid here...his justification is that he's never Actually lost me before. That I've always begun to leave but returned...and he says he's made changes, but of course, how can I really see that from so far away...and how can he move out here to be closer to his children and to me when he doesn't know anyone out here but me...etc...

 

You need to put the kids first. Who knows how much emotional damage has been done already. While I'm sure you tried to hide a lot from them, kids pickup an awful lot.

 

I'm really trying to put them first. They're saying how much they miss him and want him to return...and I am wondering if we're all so conditioned to how he is that we don't see how unhealthy it is...My mom says the further from the relationship I get the more clear it'll all become...

 

That story of the affair with your friend and her H? My god what kind of friendship and marriage is that!? I thought it was the script of a cheap porno movie when I was reading it.

 

Yeah...kinda felt like I was IN a porno. Her husband got a little weird with me for a bit...talked about all the things he wanted to see me to - like with his W and with other men and stuff...dude is a total kink freak...but like I said...she gave the green light and encouraged it...I will say this - having moved and having some distance from that situation - what the F was I thinking??????? Yeah...I know I have a lot to work out about myself...stuff like that being a part of my history being paramount in testimony to that.

 

I think you need to focus on you outside of a relationship. You need to do this to be he best mom you can be for your kids. Bringing back toxicity to the house will only have negative effects for the future. There is only so long you should flog a dead horse...

 

I'm looking for a counselor now...I had to get medical set up first though and am still waiting for that to kick in so I can start going...the really sad thing here is that I saw two therapists within the months after my A a few years ago and both of them said I had my head on pretty straight, that I needed to work on my self esteem, that I had all the tools I needed to fix any problems I feel I am having - that I just need to use them. Which of course has left me thinking...if I have to tools...maybe it's not that I need to use them, but instead I'm using them incorrectly and should have my methods corrected. I did figure out last year that an event that occurred when I was about 14 was actually rape - so that made a lot of things a lot more clear...but even still....

[Mr. Lucky]

Not going to comment on your H since he's not the one posting here.

 

You're simply not at a point in your life where you should be married. Multiple affairs (6? 7? 8?) and your misuse of sex as a way to relate and connect to the people in your life are not the hallmarks of a healthy personality. Is one of your near teen kids a daughter? If so, I'd keep a close eye on her as your role modeling has indicated to her that a women's worth is based on her sexual availability and delivery. And if you think kids aren't paying close attention, guess again.

 

You seem smart enough to know how broken your life is. I hope you're smart enough to do the work in therapy to fix it. While you're waiting for your medical coverage, I'd read every book on sexuality you can get your hands on. You've literally given pieces of yourself away for nothing and gotten nothing in return. Hopefully, it's a cycle you can break...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mack05]

As I said in a previous post "Promising change is one thing. Sustaining it for the rest of your life is entirely different". When a man is emotionally unhealthy his promises of change are 'empty' promises. He has made such declarations before only to revert to type. What makes you think it will be any different this time?

 

I am sure that this is an emotional tug of war for you, especially when your kids want him back. However sometimes kids don't know what is for the best. Not only that its up to the parent(s) to make the hard choices. When the kids get older they will understand.

 

Back to you. You need to stop playing the victim. There is no excuse for having an affair (s). If your husband has been abusive, you have the right to defend yourself. You have the right to leave the marriage if it makes you unhappy, but it does not give you a free pass to have an affair.

 

The bottom line is you have two people that need to fix what is wrong with them. Realistically this can only be done outside the confines of a relationship. Sometimes making genuine change can take up to years.

 

I'm pretty sure you will take him back to the house. That's what happens when you have two people in denial. "Fooling each people is a serious business but when you fool yourself it becomes fatal".

[Oberfeldwebel]

I wish that you could step back and read your own story. If this was not you, you would advise the other person that they are in a vicious cycle you are trapped in now. My advise is to end this abusive relationship. Look for someone that is not married to someone else. You have to understand that all these actions are happening in front of your children, I don't mean the sex, but the cycle part is and could be destructive to them. This is not what you want them to emulate. A healthy sex life is a very good thing, don't let it control or define you. Get out, get control, get on with life.

[Fallen Petals]

Not going to comment on your H since he's not the one posting here.

 

You're simply not at a point in your life where you should be married. Multiple affairs (6? 7? 8?) and your misuse of sex as a way to relate and connect to the people in your life are not the hallmarks of a healthy personality. Is one of your near teen kids a daughter? If so, I'd keep a close eye on her as your role modeling has indicated to her that a women's worth is based on her sexual availability and delivery. And if you think kids aren't paying close attention, guess again.

 

You seem smart enough to know how broken your life is. I hope you're smart enough to do the work in therapy to fix it. While you're waiting for your medical coverage, I'd read every book on sexuality you can get your hands on. You've literally given pieces of yourself away for nothing and gotten nothing in return. Hopefully, it's a cycle you can break...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

4. Not that that makes it ok. He does know about everything I have done under the sun - if there's one thing I am bad at, it's not tattling on myself. He swears he knows me better than I know myself. I'm in ohhhhh so many ways like an errant child, acting out in some self damaging manner to get some form of attention or help. And YES I know it's awful...in so many ways I feel so completely broken. I have no one to blame for that except myself. I actually have asked myself a few times how much more I have to give without a little something in return...

 

I actually just picked up a book on self esteem, and I also picked one up on dealing with rape once you realize it was actually rape - I figure much of my inability to cope is likely linked with never properly dealing with some of the emotional downfall from events I ignored, buried, or mislabeled. How can I ever fix myself if I don't understand myself, right?? So that's what I am working on now...

 

As I said in a previous post "Promising change is one thing. Sustaining it for the rest of your life is entirely different". When a man is emotionally unhealthy his promises of change are 'empty' promises. He has made such declarations before only to revert to type. What makes you think it will be any different this time?

 

I am sure that this is an emotional tug of war for you, especially when your kids want him back. However sometimes kids don't know what is for the best. Not only that its up to the parent(s) to make the hard choices. When the kids get older they will understand.

 

Back to you. You need to stop playing the victim. There is no excuse for having an affair (s). If your husband has been abusive, you have the right to defend yourself. You have the right to leave the marriage if it makes you unhappy, but it does not give you a free pass to have an affair.

 

The bottom line is you have two people that need to fix what is wrong with them. Realistically this can only be done outside the confines of a relationship. Sometimes making genuine change can take up to years.

 

I'm pretty sure you will take him back to the house. That's what happens when you have two people in denial. "Fooling each people is a serious business but when you fool yourself it becomes fatal".

I have been constantly asking myself how I can believe this time to be any different than other times. He has taken some steps on his own that I had always hoped he would take, but they're just baby steps. I told him if we're going to wind up back together on a permanent basis that I don't believe it should just happen by moving him back in, that we need IC and separate lives and that he eventually needs to date me and get to know me again because, in theory, we should both be making some huge changes.

 

And yes, the tug of war in me is excruciating. My eldest cried today and asked me if I would let daddy come home...he misses him and wants to see him and knows he has problems but believes him when he says he'll change...

 

I know they're powerfully observant - much of my broken behavior is behind closed doors where they don't see it...so the part of me they know is stable...and of course I feel a great deal of shame for how they'd view me if they really knew. I learned long ago that the man I loved and knew as my father and the man others knew him to be were two different men... I think sometimes we as children view our parents in a way that makes some parts invisible, that way we can continue to love them and lean on them because we need them so much.

 

I don't have an excuse for my A's - they were never something I rationalized as ok, even when they were happening. It's a part of something broken inside of me allowing myself to fall into that pit...and it's something I need to get a handle on because a great deal of self loathing and a huge hit to an already low self image become a raging result to my own stupidity. His actions are his. Mine are mine. I try to separate them for what they are and not say one caused another - however in both cases I think we've definitely contributed to on another's dysfunctions.

 

I wish that you could step back and read your own story. If this was not you, you would advise the other person that they are in a vicious cycle you are trapped in now. My advise is to end this abusive relationship. Look for someone that is not married to someone else. You have to understand that all these actions are happening in front of your children, I don't mean the sex, but the cycle part is and could be destructive to them. This is not what you want them to emulate. A healthy sex life is a very good thing, don't let it control or define you. Get out, get control, get on with life.

 

Isn't that the worst part too???? I KNOW if I read this and it was someone else I'd sound so logical and precise on an analysis of what they were going through...and yet being so close to it all, it's like sitting so close to a puzzle that's finished and yet looking at one piece at a time and then trying to identify what the whole picture is.

 

Right now I am trying to stabilize, find work, find routine...I should likely go find friends, but I don't feel I am a very good contribution to anyone's life right now so I feel I should likely fix myself a bit first....

[Mr. Lucky]

I actually just picked up a book on self esteem, and I also picked one up on dealing with rape once you realize it was actually rape - I figure much of my inability to cope is likely linked with never properly dealing with some of the emotional downfall from events I ignored, buried, or mislabeled. How can I ever fix myself if I don't understand myself, right?? So that's what I am working on now...

 

Isn't that the worst part too???? I KNOW if I read this and it was someone else I'd sound so logical and precise on an analysis of what they were going through...and yet being so close to it all, it's like sitting so close to a puzzle that's finished and yet looking at one piece at a time and then trying to identify what the whole picture is.

 

Right now I am trying to stabilize, find work, find routine...I should likely go find friends, but I don't feel I am a very good contribution to anyone's life right now so I feel I should likely fix myself a bit first....

For someone so perceptive and introspective, why so little progress and grief avoidance?

 

Your issue isn't control of your sexual urges, it's a continued tendency to act in a self-destructive manner. You couldn't have screwed up your end of the marriage more effectively had that been your stated goal. And yet, even knowing how diminished you'll feel afterwards, you keep placing yourself in these situations where you lower your self-worth.

 

It's too bad you don't want something better for yourself, if at least for your kids sake. Again, I'd worry less about your marriage and more about yourself. So far, enemy #1 has been you...

 

Mr. Lucky