Girlfriend is asking me to do something I am not in agreement with...

[pteromom]

Personally, I think that anyone who NEEDS to drink 3-4 beers every night, to the point that they would rather toss away a healthy and happy relationship than even dial it back a little, has a problem with alcohol. Generally, that's also what they say in AA too. If you NEED a beer every night to unwind, you have a problem. It's not about the volume. It's about not being able to put it down.

 

He said though that he typically drinks 2-3 times a week, not every night.

[TheBigQuestion]

Maybe. Or maybe, like alcoholics I have known, he's in denial about how much he drinks and how much it affects him. I don't know the OP, but I've known alcoholics, and I have never known one still actively drinking that admits the ways alcohol affects his life.

 

"From what we can tell" is the key here - we don't know OP's GF's side of this issue at all. It could be she is controlling. Could be she's puritanical about alcohol. Could be she's pushing back about something he's trying to control her in (dressing up, perhaps?) I dunno. You dunno either.

 

As readers on a message board, we have no choice but to accept what we are presented because we simply have no way of proving otherwise. Plenty of people drink in small amounts on a regular basis, and under no presently accepted definition of the disease are those people alcoholics. Yes, as serial muse pointed out, recovering alcoholics are still technically alcoholics (most of the time) because they still fight the addiction on a daily basis. But generally, alcoholism diagnosis usually requires a regular pattern of drinking (the reasons WHY one drinks are relevant but not dispositive in determining whether or not one has the disease) a certain number of alcoholic drinks for an extended period of time. The effect on the person's life also comes into play when making the diagnosis. That's how it's diagnosed. There's a rough consensus of how to go about it in the medical community, but a lay person making armchair proclamations about who does and who doesn't have a "problem" has no place in the discussion.

 

Given the facts about alcoholism and the fact that we are not in a position to call the OP a liar, yes, OP's girlfriend IS creating the problem in this relationship where there is none. Although if we take OP's posting history into account, it certainly looks like their relationship is one where each party takes turns jockeying for control.

[pteromom]

Given the facts about alcoholism and the fact that we are not in a position to call the OP a liar, yes, OP's girlfriend IS creating the problem in this relationship where there is none.

 

But it's a problem for HER.

 

Obviously, if she's asking him to change it.

 

I have no idea WHY it is a problem for her or if her reasons are valid, but it's a problem for her.

 

So doesn't she have the right to communicate the problem to him? Sure, coming up with some arbitrary rule about 2 beers may not be the best solution, but she gets points for trying to come up with a solution.

[TheBigQuestion]

But it's a problem for HER.

 

Obviously, if she's asking him to change it.

 

I have no idea WHY it is a problem for her or if her reasons are valid, but it's a problem for her.

 

So doesn't she have the right to communicate the problem to him? Sure, coming up with some arbitrary rule about 2 beers may not be the best solution, but she gets points for trying to come up with a solution.

 

Yes, it IS a problem for her. I don't deny that. However, OP does not objectively have a problem. Therefore, if these two break up, it will be because of the fact that her past issues created issues in the relationship, not because he has a problem with alcohol. That and that they apparently have a history of power struggles. Not sure about that, but that's what people are saying??

 

People who repeatedly insinuate or state outright that the OP has a problem and that if they break up it will be because he "chose the bottle over a great woman" are the ones who are in the wrong. It's just a thinly-veiled attempt to run down the OP because of their OWN issues.

[pteromom]

Yes, it IS a problem for her. I don't deny that. However, OP does not objectively have a problem.

 

I don't agree with you...

 

I think he may have a problem, just based on what he shared, and based on the fact that his GF is asking him to dial back the drinking.

 

People who repeatedly insinuate or state outright that the OP has a problem and that if they break up it will be because he "chose the bottle over a great woman" are the ones who are in the wrong. It's just a thinly-veiled attempt to run down the OP because of their OWN issues.

 

We all make an interpretation of the situation based on our own experiences and issues. The fact that your reaction was negative toward her trying to "control him" is based on your own issues too. We all do that.

 

Point is - I don't think his lack of a problem is as clear as you think. I don't think we have enough info to have solid opinions on it. We all just use the "feelings" we get reading OP's post to decide what we think.

[TheBigQuestion]

I don't agree with you...

 

I think he may have a problem, just based on what he shared, and based on the fact that his GF is asking him to dial back the drinking.

 

 

You're free to disagree with me, but you'd be wrong. Someone saying that he likes to relax with a beer (which is all that he said, not that he NEEDS it to unwind) is not in and of itself sufficient for a diagnosis of alcoholism. Furthermore, the amount that he drinks is not enough to have negative health, professional, or personal repercussions. To say otherwise is to call him a liar, and we do not have any basis on which to do that. Sure, he COULD be a liar, and he COULD actually drink way more than he says he does, but you cannot come to that conclusion taking his words at face value. We can't corroborate his story in any other way, so we have no choice but to take what he says as truth. You can only say he "may" have a problem by making assumptions. By taking what is written at face value, he simply has no medically defined problem. If he has no medically defined problem, then his relationship will not end because of it, because it doesn't exist. And that just brings us right back to where we started.

[EasyHeart]

I think a lot of you are really missing the mark by debating what you think is an acceptable level of drinking. That's not the point. For her, it's not drinking'; for him it's four beers. Neither of these points is irrational and adults can choose how they want to live their lives.

 

But it's important to HER. We all have things that are important to us that may not be important to other people and that's completely okay. OP has to decide whether his drinking is more important than this relationship, and it seems to me that it is. That's okay, too. These people just aren't compatible.

 

Trying to convince her that she's wrong to not want OP to drink is not going to work. At best, she'll suck it up for a while, but it's going to gnaw at her and eventually blow up.

 

To me, this falls under the lifestyle issues category, and that's a really important one for long term success. If I hardly drink at all, and she drinks regularly, then that's going to be an issue. If I go to the gym regularly and she thinks exercise is a luxury, then it's not going to work out. If I like to watch television series and she thinks all TV is junk, we're going to have big problems. If she clocks out of work at 4:30 every day and I routinely have to work til 7 or 8, that's going to be a problem. There's not right or wrong or good and bad to any of those things; it just means our lifestyles are not going to mesh.

[miss_jaclynrae]

The question she wants me to answer is: Why do you need to have more than 2 drinks in one setting?

 

My responses have been...

I like the taste of beer.

It relaxes me.

I have enough self-control that I can have up to 4 without induldging in more .

Plus, there is the social end of it...thats what I do with friends...

 

 

There is a difference between having 4 beers when out with friends and casually drinking 4 with dinner. I am with a recovering alcoholic and I can say right now that you reasons are invalid. Because of the one I bolded, it shows that you rely on the beer and I can fully understand her concern. When I first got with my boyfriend he considered almost everyone an alcoholic and I didn't understand it, when the fact of the matter is that if you rely on the alcohol for anything and do not have the self control to drink only ONE then you definitely do have a problem. Not on the level of an alcohol abuser, but still.

 

 

That being said, it really ISN'T a big deal, but it is to her, and unless you can find it in yourself to not drink more than two, then maybe she isn't the woman for you. She deserves a man who will put her wants before alcohol and you deserve a woman who will not tell you how much you should or should not drink.

[miss_jaclynrae]

Maybe. Or maybe, like alcoholics I have known, he's in denial about how much he drinks and how much it affects him. I don't know the OP, but I've known alcoholics, and I have never known one still actively drinking that admits the ways alcohol affects his life.

 

"From what we can tell" is the key here - we don't know OP's GF's side of this issue at all. It could be she is controlling. Could be she's puritanical about alcohol. Could be she's pushing back about something he's trying to control her in (dressing up, perhaps?) I dunno. You dunno either.

 

This is VERY true. Even alcoholics "know" their limit, and truly tend to be in denial, not only hiding it from others, but themselves.

 

 

As I said though, whether he has a problem or not isn't the issue. It is him refusing to agree to only 2 beers. I personally do not think she is asking much at all, I think some other guidelines should be in there as well such as nights out with the guys you could break the rule, but 10 beers a week? That technically accounts to a beer everyday and three of those days with 2 beers. Sure, it isn't a lot, but that is 5 beers two nights a week, and that right there could definitely be considered an alcoholic. Granted, we aren't talking about some 21 year old going out on weekends getting ****ty, this is a grown man, and if he has a problem only drinking 2, then he needs to let her know and let HER decided to leave or not... And after he watching a man become an alcoholic... I wouldn't blame her for leaving.

[veggirl]

Because of the one I bolded, it shows that you rely on the beer and I can fully understand her concern. When I first got with my boyfriend he considered almost everyone an alcoholic and I didn't understand it, when the fact of the matter is that if you rely on the alcohol for anything and do not have the self control to drink only ONE then you definitely do have a problem. Not on the level of an alcohol abuser, but still.

 

Now you are just playing with semantics. So he said relax. I really don't think that saying "I feel relaxed" makes someone an alcoholic, he never said he NEEDS it to relax.

 

Honestly, right now I'm having a glass of wine to wind down. I had an insane day. I do feel relaxed. Tell me more about how I must have issues with alcohol.

 

OP have you and your girl had a sit down discussion about this or just arguments/passive agressiveness? I think it's absurd that on a night out, she would badger you about having 3 beers. That is unreasonable and if she has issues with alcohol, then again...she should date someone who is sober. I don't understand why you have not asked her why she continued in the relationship knowing from DATE ONE that you imbibe occasionally. What's wrong with asking that?

[veggirl]

I look at it this way. It would be like me, a vegetarian going on a 1st date. I order a salad, he orders a burger. 2nd date, I order falafel and he orders a meat gyro.

 

Fast forward 4 months and I am going "WHY do you eat meat?!" and "don't tell me you're going to get steak!!"

 

Would that be okay?

 

I am prettyyyy sure no one would think it was okay.

[dreamingoftigers]

Honestly,

 

I sit at two directions with this one:

 

1. My father is/was an alcoholic. I wouldn't date a guy that drank anything. I was very upfront about that. Total, total dealbreaker. Still is. It's harder to find a man that doesn't drink, but far from impossible. I was rarely single througout my youth. I am also not into smokers, drugs etc.

 

However when I met my husband he was a homeless drunk .

 

He really really liked me and honestly, the homeless part didn't bother anywhere near as much as the alcoholism. I said no, I won't date a man that drinks. Period. He said he wanted to sober up anyway. Spent a week in a hotel room. Done for five years. One short relapse from Hell and this rime he went to Relapse Prevention. Sober another year so far. Much more easy-going and pleasant. Great guy. Love him to pieces.

 

2. I wouldn't have dated my husband no matter how nice or otherwise functional he became if he drank anything at all. I wouldn't have gotten in a relationship and said "well, you know about my Dad, can you quit?" BUT I totally appreciate how he understand the anxiety etc. That drinking or alcohol present causes me. It does sound as though your gf is asking you to chill on it a bit to help her moderate her anxiety, not to POLICE or MICROMANAGE you.

 

She's saying, "this makes me nervous"

 

If you drove a little faster, say 10km over limit. (not ticketable up here) and she said "that makes me nervous," you could take that two ways just the same:

 

1. (invalidating) "we're safe, don't tell me how to drive, I've been driving for 25 years."

 

2. (validating, intimacy-building) "okay Hun, I won't drive at that clip with you in the vehicle if it bothers you that much."

 

It's not a case of "right" and "wrong" here. You CAN drop the relationship validly and tell her she might want to be more upfront with the alcohol expectations in the beginning of get next one. OR you can realize she isn't trying to "punish" "control" "quell" or raise you as much as she is trying to stay with you by sharing and trying to work out a relationship where she sees a potential deal-breaker she might not have realized coming up.

 

It's simple math at this point, which are you more protective of?

 

Your gf's flawed premise on getting involved with you BUT realizing that she does have this anxiety etc.

 

OR your enjoyment of your alcohol in her presence, which wouldn't be an issue in the future?

 

I know that the 1000-calorie bit was thrown out there buy that would be the equivalent of asking you to quit drinking altogether.

 

Personally, if I had a mate whom the communication etc etc etc was great I would give up chocolate cake or cookies if it caused him literal anxiety.

 

As well, if you find that cutting down is extremely unworkable for you, (and it isn't due to an alcoholism issue) you can always go back and leave the R. But chances are if you leave the R to keep your beer regime, you likely wouldn't be able to back.

 

One thing I have learned about female anxiety over the years is that even being open to talking about it or being open to her would do a lot in and of itself to curb her anxiety.

 

Maybe something as simple as: are you worried that I have an alcohol problem?

 

If she says "no." (don't pretend like you just won something here)

 

You can tell her that you understand that x-loser was one and that she's worried and that you are sensitive to that BUT you are concerned that she thinks you can't control yourself. That bothers you. And that you are worried that it sounds a little like a dictate instead of a favor. You could even tell her you'll give it a shot if you wanted.

 

It's not black or white. This isn't a battle with absolute surrender. Get on the same "side." fight the problems of you fear being controlled and she's afraid of a potential alcohol anxiety.

 

For me, the anxiety was so bad it was a bottom-line right out the gate BUT my husband is also someone who plain-put can't function with it. Who knows, if it had been someone different, I might have been able to relax, (but lading beer-breath is )

[soccerrprp]

The question she wants me to answer is: Why do you need to have more than 2 drinks in one setting?

 

My responses have been...

I like the taste of beer.

It relaxes me.

I have enough self-control that I can have up to 4 without induldging in more .

Plus, there is the social end of it...thats what I do with friends...

 

It relaxes me...so it affects you.

Up to 4 and it does not create a "perceived" buzz. Does not mean it has not affected you. Four beers seems excessive to me at a sitting. But you don't do this daily, right?

 

BTW, the true health benefits come from drinking a glass or so of RED wine, not beer or alcohol in general.

 

Ask her what the deal is with this...

[paperboy48]

People keep saying that he's never had any problems due to alcohol. Yet...he's 40 and single and about to lose his girlfriend over the booze.

 

That's not considered a problem?

 

 

For your information...I went through a very rough divorce last year of a 16-year relationship. the divorce had nothing to do with alcohol.

[paperboy48]

It relaxes me...so it affects you.

Up to 4 and it does not create a "perceived" buzz. Does not mean it has not affected you. Four beers seems excessive to me at a sitting. But you don't do this daily, right?

 

BTW, the true health benefits come from drinking a glass or so of RED wine, not beer or alcohol in general.

 

Ask her what the deal is with this...

 

No I do not do this daily. I have a drink 2-3 times a week. My norm is 3-4 on a Saturday. A couple on Fridays and 1 on a weeknight. What's that add up to 7 max for a week

[pteromom]

H It does sound as though your gf is asking you to chill on it a bit to help her moderate her anxiety, not to POLICE or MICROMANAGE you.

 

She's saying, "this makes me nervous"

 

If you drove a little faster, say 10km over limit. (not ticketable up here) and she said "that makes me nervous," you could take that two ways just the same:

 

1. (invalidating) "we're safe, don't tell me how to drive, I've been driving for 25 years."

 

2. (validating, intimacy-building) "okay Hun, I won't drive at that clip with you in the vehicle if it bothers you that much."

 

It's not a case of "right" and "wrong" here. You CAN drop the relationship validly and tell her she might want to be more upfront with the alcohol expectations in the beginning of get next one. OR you can realize she isn't trying to "punish" "control" "quell" or raise you as much as she is trying to stay with you by sharing and trying to work out a relationship where she sees a potential deal-breaker she might not have realized coming up.

 

This is an excellent post, and WINS this thread.

[paperboy48]

This is an excellent post, and WINS this thread.

 

The judge has spoken?

[pteromom]

The judge has spoken?

 

No, but pteromom has. How much weight you give my proclamation is up to you.