Men and ugly women

[Disenchantedly Yours]

....I appreciate the attempt at some kind of social commentary here but this is full of flaws:

-why do you assume I'm skinny or skinnier than these girls? I'm recovered and at a healthy weight. There are many women who are less thin than me who are better looking than I am. This is YOU making this about weight.

 

NO. My commentary is not full of flaws in the least. You're just not really listening.

 

I am not assuming anything about your weight. I don't know or care about your weight. You've completely missed my point. Which is you judge other women on factors you struggled with. It doesn't matter what your weight is now or what it was than. *You* made it about that, not me. You were honest enough to be open about your eating disorder. Yet you mock other women for their weight (and other physical factors.)

 

Here is my point. Please pay close attention: ALL women have struggles with their bodies. Instead of shaming one another or putting each other down, we should support each other. Whether our boyfriends slept with them or not. Stop tearing other women down, less attractive or more attractive then yourself, just because how you feel about yourself.

 

 

-this is not gender specific, there are many unattractive men out there too.

 

We are talking about your situation. We aren't talking about unattractive men. You did want to talk about your situation right? As a woman, stop putting other women down. stop being part of the problem. Stop contributing to it. Women get enough crap about their bodies from society and from men. Lets not do it to ourselves among each other.

 

-I don't hate myself but thanks for the dime store psychology

 

My psychology was completely free. But if you want to send me a dime, I'll let out you know where you can put it.

 

I think you have some self-loathing contending with you. And on a deeper pyschological sepectrum, even a possible self-loathing for women since you are very derogatory toward other women based on their own looks.

 

 

-as much as people want to claim that they're unaffected by our culture it's not true, period. Orbach's classic "Fat is a Feminist Issue" lays this out nicely.

 

Oh I am very, very well aware that people are completely affected by our culture. Every person on this board that is familiar with me can vouche for me on that to you. I have no clue why you even say this since I never made a case for what people are or aren't affected by culturally.

 

Again we are talking about *you*. Yes?

 

Also, all of you that are assuming that these unattractive women had awesome personalities, why?? I know for a fact my bf wasn't into their perdonalities, He wanted to get his pole wet.

 

How does it feel to be with a man that so easily and carelessly used other women? Is that the kind of man you would really want to be with or respect?

 

I know for myself that I don't respect men that use women. I wouldn't want to be with a guy that simply wanted to get his pole wet and used other people as means to that end. Even if he thought they were disgusting. To me, this would be a man lacking in self control and who was a slave to his penis and had very little self respect for himself.

 

I guess being enlightened beings means claiming we don't notice anyone's appearance and everyone we've banged is the love child or mother Teresa and Gandhi. Oops, I guess I'm a mere mortal then.

 

Being a mere mortal doesn't mean you get a free pass to be a db.

 

You're not truly open to listening to anyone unless they jump on your bandwagon about your boyfriend just wanting to get "his pole wet", which for some odd reason actually makes you feel better about the situation.

 

Of course we notice how other people look. There is a huge difference between objectively noticing people's looks and putting them down for it. Such as personally dictating who is a "2" or not. Or mocking people for their looks.

 

We all know there are very attractive people and not attractive people. So what. But if you treat unattractive people like they are less simply because of their looks, that's the problem.

[xxoo]

I know for a fact my bf wasn't into their perdonalities,

He wanted to get his pole wet.

 

Is the real issue the in-your-face evidence of his sexual behavior?

 

Would it be less bothersome if he'd had a couple unattractive girlfriends over the years, who he cared for a lot?

[DazedConfusedEtc]

Thanks, Leigh! I'm glad to hear that you've come so far and life is much better. You're still coming down on yourself a lot, though, you aren't ugly and don't need to listen to some tools on the Internet, or really most of what people here say. It's the Internet, it's nice to get perspectives but it's all subjective and much is ppl transferring their problems on to you-- look at all of the replies to this thread or the people who will jump at any chance to tell a poster that their partner MUST be cheating on them.

 

I'm still in intensive treatment, I don't know what weight ill be but prob a bit higher than this. I eat quite a lot to be where I am, I'm also very physically active and used to be a fitness instructor which raises my energy needs.

 

I want to clarify that this rant was about MY boyfriend having sex with very unattractive women because at that point in his life sex was the most important thing to him, any hole is a goal. Then he didn't want to admit that so told me he found attractive, I know it's not true. With some he's told me in the past that he wasn't attracted to them. I don't walk around comparing myself to random women on the street, sometimes I'll feel a pang of envy when I see someone very very attractive. I am sure that unattractive people find love and happiness too. I'm sure my bf's former flings will find that too. This is not about the worth of someone being determined by their appearance, it's about a behavioral pattern thats a bit yucky to me.

[Ruby Slippers]

Men like that are truly confident men. They don't feel like they need to proove themselves through a false sense of worth through their partner's looks.

 

I'm taking this class about finances and it was talking about how there are certain people that have a lot of money that simply don't feel the need to impress people. They don't feel the need to impress people because they know themselves and their worth. We all have heard about those people. They make a lot of money but they still drive their decade old car. They don't wear fancy clothes. They don't care about impressing others. Then you have people that go into serious debt so that they can have a big house and nice cars to impress people. From the outside they look like they got it all together because they have all the right items but underneath they are swiming in debt.

Rings very true!

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Some of the stuff you say is right on point and others, I really can't get on board with.

 

Why is there something inherently wrong with a very good looking man who requires that his partner be as good looking as he is? What if he's not attracted to the average girl. It's not about impressing people, it's about attraction

 

I am not suggesting that people date others they aren't attracted to. Infact, I would hope that people do date others they are attracted to. And obviously there is nothing wrong with a man or woman dating someone socially accepted as being highly attractive.

 

But what is off to me is the *requiring* part. I guess I am just personally more open to different types of people and I leave that door open. I've dated very financially successful men and not so very financially successful men. I've dated fit attractive men and not so fit and attractive men. For me, it always came down to chemistry and like-morals. We don't have to have the same views on everything but I do need someone who is a decent person and cares about doing the decent thing, even when I am not looking.

 

If you aren't attracted to someone, don't date them.

 

But do be aware of how our society does twist our perceptions of what is attractive.

 

And I do think a lot of men use women's looks as a barometer to their worth.

[Ruby Slippers]

How does it feel to be with a man that so easily and carelessly used other women? Is that the kind of man you would really want to be with or respect?

 

I know for myself that I don't respect men that use women. I wouldn't want to be with a guy that simply wanted to get his pole wet and used other people as means to that end. Even if he thought they were disgusting. To me, this would be a man lacking in self control and who was a slave to his penis and had very little self respect for himself.

This! And it's not like these women or this lifestyle are in the distant past or far away. They ran into one of the guy's exes at a club the other night.

 

Maybe you're really just upset that he's done a fair amount of "whoring around" (as you put it)? Would it feel better if he had "whored around" with hotter chicks? Or still not so great?

[DazedConfusedEtc]

Let me guess Disenchantedly Yours, you're a soc. major?

 

I am listening quite well to you but you're still missing the point -- yes, I ranted on an Internet forum using strong words for effect. I wasn't mean to anyone, I didn't harm anyone, and I didn't judge anyone but my bf. you want to judge me, that's on you.

 

Xxoo, it is the sexual past that's the issue for me, the putting sex above all else and the reminders of it. I have guy friends that bring home very unattractive women because they'll do whatever is available, it's all about sex to them. My bf was like this while single and I hate it. He also dated someone very unattractive for 6 mos, and didn't particularly like her personality, no big love there. He just was insecure and dated her because she was there and interested. I know that this is something I'll need to move past, again this was a rant and nothing more. The visual reminders just aren't fun.

[xxoo]

Xxoo, it is the sexual past that's the issue for me, the putting sex above all else and the reminders of it. I have guy friends that bring home very unattractive women because they'll do whatever is available, it's all about sex to them. My bf was like this while single and I hate it. He also dated someone very unattractive for 6 mos, and didn't particularly like her personality, no big love there. He just was insecure and dated her because she was there and interested. I know that this is something I'll need to move past, again this was a rant and nothing more. The visual reminders just aren't fun.

 

What bothers you about it?

 

Does it make you question his character and future behavior?

 

Or is it something else?

[DazedConfusedEtc]

OP I must say I'm a little baffled by this thread

 

 

 

Why do you care so much who he slept with in the past? Does it really matter if he was either A)one of the few guys out there who can be really attracted to somebody much less attractive than himself or B)he slept with them because he was desperate?

 

 

He's with you now and seems to love you so what's the issue? You're creating a problem out of nothing because of your extreme insecurities. If you look at the mirror and you're pleased with how you look, then that's all that matters. I can't believe you would care so much about something that is so trivial and meaningless

 

 

I really mean no offense, I don't think you're a bad person but this thread makes you look very shallow and very insecure. Just be happy with what you have...there are millions of people out there who would kill to be with an attractive kind partner

 

Did I say that this is something I lose sleep over or care about so much? I ranted, excuse me for that, if that makes me "look" shallow to you from behind your computer then I won't lose sleep over that either. At the end of the day I am very, very happy with my relationship. I'm happy with who I am and how far I've come. I'm dating a person who treats me like gold and is so good to his family and friends. He went through a wild period later than most and so yes I'm reminded of it more than I like, but like I said several times, as the time passes this becomes less and less relevant

 

And to the people who say they wouldn't date someone like my bf because of his past that's fine, he's mine anyway:)

[Ruby Slippers]

Sex goes from a luxury (which it is for women) to a need (which it is for men).

You have a source for this "fact"? Sex is no more or less a need for men or women. I bet you $1,000 that my sex drive and intensity of desire at age 36 could rival half the men's on this board.

 

Personally, I have no problem with a man whoring around as long as he did it while being single and he was careful and safe about everything

You're not dating or sleeping with a man who did it, so I see why you have no problem with it.

 

Personally, I'm not terribly concerned about my partner's sexual past - as long as he wasn't lying or cheating. But different people have different comfort levels with this stuff.

 

The OP is obviously bothered that her ex had plenty of casual meaningless sex in the past.

[DazedConfusedEtc]

What bothers you about it?

 

Does it make you question his character and future behavior?

 

Or is it something else?

 

Honestly, it used to make me question his character but I know him well enough for it not to anymore. I just hate picturing him like that :/

[DazedConfusedEtc]

So basically you're ranting over nothing of any significance, I think that's what everybody in this thread is telling you

 

 

The women who are saying they would never date somebody with a past like that are women who have no clue about the male sex drive. I'm happy you found somebody you really seem to like. That's all that matters

 

I know that this is insignificant and assholish of me, just wanted to get it off my chest. I made this all clear from the get go .

 

And thank you! I'm pretty damned happy too, I feel like I've won the lottery. We've been together going on a year and lived together 6 mos and I've never felt like this before, it took me 30 yrs but I found the man I want to be with, who makes me happy and appreciates me. I can deal with the small stuff, doesn't mean that it doesn't feel good to say it out loud.

[Leigh 87]

Thanks, Leigh! I'm glad to hear that you've come so far and life is much better. You're still coming down on yourself a lot, though, you aren't ugly and don't need to listen to some tools on the Internet, or really most of what people here say. It's the Internet, it's nice to get perspectives but it's all subjective and much is ppl transferring their problems on to you-- look at all of the replies to this thread or the people who will jump at any chance to tell a poster that their partner MUST be cheating on them.

 

I'm still in intensive treatment, I don't know what weight ill be but prob a bit higher than this. I eat quite a lot to be where I am, I'm also very physically active and used to be a fitness instructor which raises my energy needs.

 

I want to clarify that this rant was about MY boyfriend having sex with very unattractive women because at that point in his life sex was the most important thing to him, any hole is a goal. Then he didn't want to admit that so told me he found attractive, I know it's not true. With some he's told me in the past that he wasn't attracted to them. I don't walk around comparing myself to random women on the street, sometimes I'll feel a pang of envy when I see someone very very attractive. I am sure that unattractive people find love and happiness too. I'm sure my bf's former flings will find that too. This is not about the worth of someone being determined by their appearance, it's about a behavioral pattern thats a bit yucky to me.

 

 

 

 

Settling for girls he finds ugly just for the sake of sex is bad.

 

Is it better for guys to wait for a girl they are attracted to to some along? And perhaps wait for a long time, though?

 

Your boyfriend may not have been able to get hotter girls, due to his demanour, or self perception.

 

He thought ugly ones were better than no girls.

 

I think it is sh*tty to shag girls you don't like or respect, however, I do not think it is bad to have sex with a girl you find unattractive, as long as you really like her and hold her in high regard, and are HONEST with her about the fact you just was a casual arragement from the start.

[xxoo]

Honestly, it used to make me question his character but I know him well enough for it not to anymore. I just hate picturing him like that :/

 

So don't!

 

I know, easier said than done. But a person can not hold two thoughts at the same time. When you think of him with one of those women, force yourself to think of something else. It's history. Wasting mind space on it is not helping anything.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

If somebody says that they require a partner of certain attractiveness level, it means that they're just not attracted to anybody less than that.

 

Someone that would say that they *require* a partner of a *certain* attractiveness, sounds kind of lame.

 

Being attracted to someone of a certain level of attractiveness IS different from saying you *require* (or basically *demand*) a partner of a certain level of attractiveness.

 

BTW I agree with you that a lot of men use women's looks as a barometer of their worth but a lot of women use their men's personality/looks/status/income/etc... as a barometer of their own worth too. How many times do you see a girl telling her friend about some guy he met and the first question she asks "what does he do for a living"?

 

Yeap. BUT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT THE OP'S ISSUES WITH HER OWN SELF-ESTEEM AND LOOKS AND THE GIRLS HER BOYFRIEND SLEPT WITH AND THEIR LOOKS.

 

I know you have this driving need to do the "everything is equal in the end dance", but it's not. There is a time and place to talk about the income/status thing. It's not in this thread because that's not what this thread is about. Pay attention to the openning OP.

 

You don't think there are women out there who derive a certain amount of self worth because they are dating a doctor or a lawyer or a guy with an average job but who is extremely good looking?

 

LOL. Did I say that? Please keep the context of what this thread is about and stop with the "everything is always equal" dance. Learn to talk about things in their own right.

 

The issues you describe in this thread, just like pretty much all the issues you complain about, are people issues, not gender issues. You constantly try to make it seem like it's something only men do because you have misandrist tendencies (as much as you want to deny them)

 

Show me one comment of mine that was misandrist? If you are going to degrade me, then have the balls to back up your claims.

 

You can tell yourself whatever you need to about me to make yourself feel better. But I know who I am. And that's what matters.

 

I'll be patiently waiting for you to actually point out these "misandrist" comments.

 

Thanks.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Maybe you questioned his character because you knew better?

 

Maybe you questioned his behavior because it actually says something instead of means nothing with this whole "past is the past" argument, even if it was yesterday.

 

You really think he didn't lie and string these women along?

 

You really think he didn't use this women for sex?

 

And then after all you think you can "judge" his character?

 

And then of course you think you can trust his word...even though you know he lies, but no you're going to disregard some things he lies about, convince yourself he's lying about other things to make you feel better about yourself and to ultimately get over this little "bump" in the road, so that you can convince yourself that all this is unnecessary and means absolutely nothing?

 

Because no no, women NEVER tell themselves the things they want to hear, they never think they are the exception to the rule..in fact I'm sure they all knew this guy really wasn't attracted to them and wasn't using their vagina because "he's not that kind of a guy"

 

This guy is the typical of the typical, I'm sorry but it's written all over his entire face of what he did and why, and instead of just like...accept that, you've got to twist it and contort it and mold it into this nice little package that you can live with because you won the "lottery".

 

Do women not realize what they are doing in these moments? Do they not realize the whole psychological conditioning they are applying to themselves to accept something that actually is a legitimate concern and bothers them for a good reason?

 

How did women become so good at avoiding and ignore their intuition and instincts and convincing themselves of the things they want to see? even when the reality is completely transparent?

 

You know...in the end I really don't believe there is any wrong men can do, once the emotional attachment is hooked on there really solid, women are going to convince themselves and tell themselves anything in the world they have in order to convince themselves to continue and pursue this..."give him the benefit of the doubt"...."people change"....oh how ironic! you and 5 billion other girls think you are the exception to the rule and special enough to make this man change, it was just you the whole time, why didn't I think of that?

 

Let's just ignore all facts and arguments present and tralalala down the merry go round until they only exist in the furthest depths of our subconscious...that will certainly keep sending alarms off...but no, we're happy, I'm happy, he loves me, he's amazing!

 

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”

[HopelessRomantic76]

Yeah, you bring up some good points. I feel like a lot of people just cannot handle it if an average or cute girl is dating a really hot guy. What's that about?

 

Average girl is considered worthless - no matter how good a person she is, how smart, caring, honest, whatever.

 

If an average or cute guy dates a hot girl, people see it as a win. Reverse the genders and it has to be some pathetic, desperate thing?

 

Most of the really cute guys I dated were like you described - varying levels of experience, but most of them had women chasing them all over the place. I've dated really cute guys who have dated hot women before, and continued dating women of all kinds afterward.

 

The boyfriend I mentioned - his whole family told me that they'd never seen him so sappy and starry-eyed over a girl before me. And he told me that himself.

 

So it seems clear that hotness is not the sole or even primary motivator for all men - even hot men.

 

I agree all the hot guys ive dated have been gentleman and great guys because thye know theyre deisrable and dotn need valiadtion by whats on thir arm

 

Ive found more average or ugly men to be more rude and mean praobly becasue of insecurity

 

The answer to this problem is as women we should just date the handsome men

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Let me guess Disenchantedly Yours, you're a soc. major?

 

Nope. But I do think I'm a bright person.

 

I am listening quite well to you but you're still missing the point-- yes, I ranted on an Internet forum using strong words for effect. I wasn't mean to anyone, I didn't harm anyone, and I didn't judge anyone but my bf. you want to judge me, that's on you.

 

You talked poorly about other people. I don't think I need to run through this post to re-post the things you've said. You already know the things you said.

 

The only reason you haven't harmed anyone is because you haven't actually said any of these things to someone's face. You've rationalized that because you are saying things behind their back, it's not harmful. It's easy to lie to ourselves and tell us we aren't doing any harm by talking about people behind their back. But we are.

 

But lets take the harm of what you are saying about others out of the equation. You are even doing harm to yourself. Do you really want to be the kind of person that talks about people behind their backs? Do you think this adds to your own character or subtracts from it? This is something I've thought more about in myself lately.When I talk about others, I think it substracts from my character.

 

You took issue with my comments to you and what you perceive to be my judgement of you. Then you said that that judgement is on me. It is. Just as your judgement of others is on you. But you don't really want to take responsiblity for that because you push it off and make excuses for it. You tell yourself that you are just ranting. Which rationalizes the judgement in your head. You give yourself free passes to treat people.

 

 

Xxoo, it is the sexual past that's the issue for me, the putting sex above all else and the reminders of it. I have guy friends that bring home very unattractive women because they'll do whatever is available, it's all about sex to them.

 

Do you think it's healthy to use others that you don't even like for sex? Do you respect your guy friends for this behavior?

 

Do you think your guy friends would respect you if you used them or other men for money? It would be the same thing as them using girls for sex.

 

My bf was like this while single and I hate it. He also dated someone very unattractive for 6 mos, and didn't particularly like her personality, no big love there. He just was insecure and dated her because she was there and interested. I know that this is something I'll need to move past, again this was a rant and nothing more. The visual reminders just aren't fun.

 

We get it. It's a rant. Which means you can say any mean thing you want about others and continually justify your boyfriend's behavior and how good or okay it is to use other women for sex. But he's just the poor little insecure boy who is so sweet and kind that it's okay that he used women because they were ulgy women anyway..basically, that's the idea.

 

I think you have issues with women.

[Anela]

Maybe you questioned his character because you knew better?

 

Maybe you questioned his behavior because it actually says something instead of means nothing with this whole "past is the past" argument, even if it was yesterday.

 

You really think he didn't lie and string these women along?

 

You really think he didn't use this women for sex?

 

And then after all you think you can "judge" his character?

 

And then of course you think you can trust his word...even though you know he lies, but no you're going to disregard some things he lies about, convince yourself he's lying about other things to make you feel better about yourself and to ultimately get over this little "bump" in the road, so that you can convince yourself that all this is unnecessary and means absolutely nothing?

 

Because no no, women NEVER tell themselves the things they want to hear, they never think they are the exception to the rule..in fact I'm sure they all knew this guy really wasn't attracted to them and wasn't using their vagina because "he's not that kind of a guy"

 

This guy is the typical of the typical, I'm sorry but it's written all over his entire face of what he did and why, and instead of just like...accept that, you've got to twist it and contort it and mold it into this nice little package that you can live with because you won the "lottery".

 

Do women not realize what they are doing in these moments? Do they not realize the whole psychological conditioning they are applying to themselves to accept something that actually is a legitimate concern and bothers them for a good reason?

 

How did women become so good at avoiding and ignore their intuition and instincts and convincing themselves of the things they want to see? even when the reality is completely transparent?

 

You know...in the end I really don't believe there is any wrong men can do, once the emotional attachment is hooked on there really solid, women are going to convince themselves and tell themselves anything in the world they have in order to convince themselves to continue and pursue this..."give him the benefit of the doubt"...."people change"....oh how ironic! you and 5 billion other girls think you are the exception to the rule and special enough to make this man change, it was just you the whole time, why didn't I think of that?

 

Let's just ignore all facts and arguments present and tralalala down the merry go round until they only exist in the furthest depths of our subconscious...that will certainly keep sending alarms off...but no, we're happy, I'm happy, he loves me, he's amazing!

 

 

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”

 

I was emotionally attached to someone, and whilst it was difficult, I told them where to go. I remember when he told me that he thought I was amazing - I felt like I was floating, and hopped up on anxiety at the same time. The good kind of anxiety. That was before other things happened.

 

It's hard to realize that you invested in a douche - that you wasted so much precious life/energy on this thing that can turn around and treat you so badly. I used to know better, but I tripped with this guy, and I haven't been the same since, because it seems this is all that's ever usually brought my way. I told him where to go, and now, I feel no emotional attachment to him - I still feel emotional about how I felt, and the time lost, though. I kept thinking about the lost time, and thought he must have some redeeming feature, even as a friend, but no - I think he just kept losing respect for me when I tried to be friends with him, because my feelings didn't matter AT ALL.

 

My sister on the other hand: when her boyfriend broke up with her some years back, she burst into tears and said that she didn't have anyone, which was annoying because she had us. She's very shy, and had no friends here, she'd put years into this guy, and he was gone. They made up again, and they're married now - this is the guy who hit on me more than once, and said that he was in love with me (and I get punished for not wanting to be around him!). I've been punished by others for this as well - I feel like an alien, I really do. I'm expected to deal with certain treatment, because she's in love? I'm expected to deal with him, because of that, even though he's caused so much trouble in the past - with anyone else, they'd be telling me to run!

 

It doesn't matter how many movies and books (or songs) there are about empowered women, ditching the douchebags, we're still encouraged to be dating or married, rather than single (for the most part). History is forgotten as soon as a ring is on the finger. My aunt is now speaking with her daughter again, a daughter whose husband threatened to slit her throat a few years ago. People kept saying to me, last year, "Never expect a woman - including your sister- to choose you over a man." Why not???? I actually didn't expect that, because I knew it wouldn't happen, but it's insulting - let the man get away with all sorts of crap, and punish the sister who walked away from his cheating ass. SOME of us can walk away, though. We aren't all like my sister.

[ChatroomHero]

I am listening quite well to you but you're still missing the point -- yes, I ranted on an Internet forum using strong words for effect. I wasn't mean to anyone, I didn't harm anyone, and I didn't judge anyone but my bf. you want to judge me, that's on you.

 

Seriously? His fat and ugly exes wasn't a judgement on your part? Judging other posters as unattractive based on their response wasn't judging? Being an ass and badgering people responding by saying they must be a soc major or whatever it was you said wasn't rude on your part?...do you even know what you are typing and how you come across?

 

You came on here looking for a reason your bf dated (in your judgement) ugly people. You were only looking to accept specific posts like, "he must have low self esteem" or "he must have had low confidence" or was just looking to get laid, to boost your ego and make you feel more attractive.

 

According to you he has told you he was genuinely attracted to these women physically. Maybe he just isn't as shallow or judgemental as you. It's not a put down though you will likely take it that way, it's just a conclusion from the 'facts' you presented.

[DazedConfusedEtc]

Maybe you questioned his character because you knew better?

 

Maybe you questioned his behavior because it actually says something instead of means nothing with this whole "past is the past" argument, even if it was yesterday.

 

You really think he didn't lie and string these women along?

 

You really think he didn't use this women for sex?

 

And then after all you think you can "judge" his character?

 

And then of course you think you can trust his word...even though you know he lies, but no you're going to disregard some things he lies about, convince yourself he's lying about other things to make you feel better about yourself and to ultimately get over this little "bump" in the road, so that you can convince yourself that all this is unnecessary and means absolutely nothing?

 

Because no no, women NEVER tell themselves the things they want to hear, they never think they are the exception to the rule..in fact I'm sure they all knew this guy really wasn't attracted to them and wasn't using their vagina because "he's not that kind of a guy"

 

This guy is the typical of the typical, I'm sorry but it's written all over his entire face of what he did and why, and instead of just like...accept that, you've got to twist it and contort it and mold it into this nice little package that you can live with because you won the "lottery".

 

Do women not realize what they are doing in these moments? Do they not realize the whole psychological conditioning they are applying to themselves to accept something that actually is a legitimate concern and bothers them for a good reason?

 

How did women become so good at avoiding and ignore their intuition and instincts and convincing themselves of the things they want to see? even when the reality is completely transparent?

 

You know...in the end I really don't believe there is any wrong men can do, once the emotional attachment is hooked on there really solid, women are going to convince themselves and tell themselves anything in the world they have in order to convince themselves to continue and pursue this..."give him the benefit of the doubt"...."people change"....oh how ironic! you and 5 billion other girls think you are the exception to the rule and special enough to make this man change, it was just you the whole time, why didn't I think of that?

 

Let's just ignore all facts and arguments present and tralalala down the merry go round until they only exist in the furthest depths of our subconscious...that will certainly keep sending alarms off...but no, we're happy, I'm happy, he loves me, he's amazing!

 

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”

 

Again you're making so many assumptions -- it's possible to have casual sex without lying -- as long as you're honest from the beginning I see no problem with it. I'm not going to rule out a huge segment of the make population, but then it seems that I don't have your puritanical values. My boyfriend is a GOOD person, he treats me like gold and did from minute 1, and he and I also started out casual. You want to judge people solely by heir sexual past, do it, but don't project your problems onto everyone else.

 

Ugh I am so sick of all of the man hating here, it's just pathetic. It's like a bad Lifetime movie.

[sillyanswer]

And good job to you too. I appreciate you dragging yourself away from your porn long enough to compliment me.

 

Perhaps he knows about multi-tasking.

[ImNotOliver]

I want to make a few points here concerning the OP.

 

First is that when I have feelings for a woman it seems that she looks prettier to me than when I don’t, or didn’t, have feelings for her. I suspect that this phenomenon is rather common.

 

Second; every guy that I’ve ever met who claimed to be a player, a PUA, or a lady’s man seemed to me to mostly date ugly women. It may be that the less desirable women are more likely to fall for their crap.

 

Third: I consider myself a good looking guy. When I was in high school, for a while I dated a girl that I used to describe as, “one of the girls who hung out behind the shop building smoking cigarettes.” She wasn’t at all pretty, had no graces, and had a personality that at times made me cringe. But when it was just her and I alone, I felt really good.

 

There was this other girl, one of the more popular girls, a cheerleader – one of the mean girls. She pulled me aside one day and told me that I could do so much better than the other girl – made a big deal about how people like her and I didn’t have to mingle with the riff raff. Though I’m much nicer about it than her I agreed with her sentiment and soon broke off my relationship with the other girl, though I long carried feelings for her.

 

This sentiment was to be reinforced over and over again. Throughout my life (I’m in my fifties) I’ve met a lot of women who I would consider 9’s and 10’s. With these women there always seemed to be a “hey you’re one of us” kind of feeling and interaction regardless if anything ever led to a relationship or not. Many times over I’ve heard these women make comments to the effect that the fact that I don’t carry on with less desirable women made me even more attractive to them.

 

I often hear people make claims of really good looking guys getting a lot of action out of lower level women. I don’t believe that to be a rule and it certainly doesn’t apply to me. Primarily this is because of pride. Good looking men, just like good looking women, don’t just pop out of cereal boxes. They are good looking because they work at it, because their pride won’t let them be just average. Why would I waste my time on a 2 or a 6 for that matter when I can get a 9 or 10, especially when that 2 or 6 would just screw up my reputation. Besides, every woman who I’ve dated who seemed to be below me spent the whole relationship sabotaging it over her fears that I would leave her for a prettier woman. I never left one for a prettier woman but rather because she drove me nuts from her insecurities and petty jealousies.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

You have misandrist comments because every comment you ever make is only aimed at the perceived shortcomings of the male gender

 

Please specifically quote what comments are misandrist. This shoudl be easy for you to do since you keep claiming my comments are misandrist. Go back to one of my lengthy posts (you got a lot of material), and specifically copy and paste and qoute the comments that misandrist.

 

Everytime you make this accusation, I ask you to do the same thing. You are never able to follow through. When you make accusations against someone, you better have concreate proof. So lets see it. Simply carrying on about how *you* think I make misandrist comments means very little when you aren't ever able to actually point to the comments you believe are misandrist.

 

You say some men derive their self worth from their women's attractiveness, well a lot of women derive their self worth from their man's status. Yet it's only a coincidence that you will never talk about that right?

 

Alot of men DO derive their self worth from their woman's attractiveness. I hope you aren't claiming this is a misandrist comment LOL. Especially when you follow it with a comment about how women derive their self worth from their man's status. (Because that would make you a misognist in your own's mind eye.) Guess what? A lot of women DO derive their self worth from their man's status. But is this thread about that? No. Are you aware of what this thread is about? I'm not sure you are.

[Els]

By the same token, people's attractiveness are raised and lowered by the things they say and how they act. So it doesn't matter what you look like, the fact that you're calling these other women wilderness trolls or whatever has severely dropped you pretty low in my mind on an attractiveness scale.

 

Someone who might not be that attractive to me on a purely physical level might open his/her mouth and say the kindest, smartest, wittiest things, and that person's attractiveness level will shoot up to a 10 to me.

 

Perhaps you should work on being more kind, both to yourself and to others, and you might find that you are happier.

 

Good luck.

 

This bears re-quoting.