Men and ugly women

[yongyong]

Women's brain:

 

On their OLD profile 'I care about the personality the most blah blah'

 

When she saw her ex with hotter gf 'He was with some dumb, slutty bimbo bitch'

When she saw her ex with uglier gf 'He was with some fat, ugly whale, what a loser haha'

 

So bottom line, it's not about personality......

[Disenchantedly Yours]

By the same token, people's attractiveness are raised and lowered by the things they say and how they act. So it doesn't matter what you look like, the fact that you're calling these other women wilderness trolls or whatever has severely dropped you pretty low in my mind on an attractiveness scale.

 

Someone who might not be that attractive to me on a purely physical level might open his/her mouth and say the kindest, smartest, wittiest things, and that person's attractiveness level will shoot up to a 10 to me.

 

Perhaps you should work on being more kind, both to yourself and to others, and you might find that you are happier.

 

Good luck.

 

Bravo Treasa.

[sid3]

Bravo Treasa.

 

Wow! No porn rant. Good job!

[todreaminblue]

I have faith that people CAN and DO change, but not because they meet someone who forces them to, but on their OWN accord, a wish from within their own hearts. Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. I say this in reference to the OP's boyfriend, and his past.

 

Now, for whatever other tangents responses to this post took, the bottom line is that the OP is struggling. I thought for a second about some insecurities I've had, myself, when confronted with the realities about boyfriends' exes (running into them, and so forth), and then magnified it, because that is what I imagine OP must be going through. It's immense. She obviously doesn't like the reminders, and who would? Honestly, I don't think I'd bode very well in her situation. But then again, I also have self-esteem and security issues. That said, though, OP... you're pretty damned strong. And I'm sure, despite your residual insecurities after your struggles with your body image, that your boyfriend sees you as a prize; an upgrade beyond compare.

 

 

 

Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.

 

you rock..sublime...deb

[Ninjainpajamas]

Well there's just no winning this game, is there?

 

She's got to be pretty....but not "prettier" or too pretty....and preferably fatter.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Small rant here: as someone who has dated several women who were not considered conventionally attractive, I absolutely hated the implications I got from some people when asked about the subject.

 

People came up with lots of explanations for why I must be dating this girl; she's rich and I'm after her money, or maybe I have some terrible secret like a micropenis and this is the best I could do. Very few people even considered the actual explanation -- that looks aren't that high a priority for me. It's like the idea of a guy who doesn't consider looks a dominant factor in dating is so foreign to people that the thought never even crosses their minds.

 

One girl I dated was morbidly obese; she was also a harvard trained lawyer who didn't have much money because she mostly did pro-bono work for underprivileged people. A very tiny girl I dated who was not considered conventionally attractive now works (as far as I know, we haven't been in touch in a couple years) in Cambodia doing volunteer work to help the poor there. That is attractive to me.

 

It absolutely drives me crazy that people don't even consider this. I feel like the guys who say "it's the inside that counts!" but don't really mean it ruin it for those of who really do mean it.

 

Dude, there needs to be more guys like you. It sounds like you know how to really value people. I am curious what kind of life experiences you've had that have you viewing relationships the way you do.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Wow! No porn rant. Good job!

 

 

And good job to you too. I appreciate you dragging yourself away from your porn long enough to compliment me.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

You know DazedConfussedETC, you might not understand your boyfriend but I don't understand women like you. And I am not saying this to "flame" you but to open your eyes to something. You admit to having body issues. You understand the pressure the world puts on women to look a certain way. Hence why you had an eating disorder. You severely feel the pressence of that pressure and it affected you deeply.But you don't consider how other women are affected by the same idealism of beauty pressures. So you continue to project those heavy ideals on other women even as you struggle with those ideals within your own body image. You understand it's not healthy. Yet you are still compelled to judge and condemn other women for things you would never want to be judged or condemned for yourself.

 

You might be skinner than other women. But it doesn't make you a better woman. You might have a nicer body than other women. But it doesn't make you a better woman. You might have beautiful, lush hair. But it doesn't make you a better woman. You might have flawless perfectly smooth skin. But it doesn't make you a better woman. Life, the kind of life every human being truly wants to live, isn't deteremined by a sliding scale of 1-10 for our looks. It might make others feel good to believe the yare better then someone they would call a "2", but if that person needs to put people into a sliding scale like that to begin with, I got to wonder at what they believe their real worth lies. I'm not trying to get all moralistic on you. I'm just asking you to dig into your humanity and show humanity to others. You don't have to be in a competition with women. YOU can be in fellowship with women. And not condemn them for things you fear the world will condemn you for. (Such as your weight or the weight of other women.) I simply don't get women like you that are so eager to tear down other women. Don't we get enough of that from the world? From men? Why do we want to do it to one another?

 

Come on Ladies, do our gender a favor and stop adding to the negative pressures on other women, no matter what other women look like. Stop buying into the that STUPID 1-10 scale. Yeah, yeah, I know that men LOVE to use this scale. Well call them out for it when they do. Then you won't spend so much time worrying about where you fall on that scale and maybe your brain will be filled up with something of more importance.

 

Lets stop tearing each other down.

 

And yes, OP, you are tearing other women down. Even in the face of the issues you struggle with regarding your own looks. Do you think your boyfriend's exes didn't struggle with their bodies or looks? I don't know any woman that doesn't. Some women might not be as vocal about it but it doesn't mean that women, whether super models or not, don't all face that eternal question about their looks and feminity. Women you describe as "2s" don't really need you to continue on projecting negativity about their looks just because you think your somewhat better than them.

 

Stop the hate and prejudice. And yes, you are displaying a certain kind of prejudice. Against your own gender! It's possible that your self-loathing and self-esteem are even lower then you even believed yourself.

[Leigh 87]

Man, I have had some pretty hot, and decent men, more interesred in my than in my model friend who is WAY better looking than me....

 

They said it was because I am very altruistic, always give loose change away if there are charity tins, and my life ambition is to, instead of having children, help stay dogs on the streets.

 

LOL.

 

HAHAH

 

True story! I swear! They were all " awwww your so sweet and " you have a spark about you" when they told me why they liked me romantically.

 

And I am not but ugly to them, and they are still attracted to me, even though I am not that pretty to all their mates.

 

Some decent men actually DO go for girls they think are nice people!!!!

I am under NO illusion that I am superb looking though just because they go for me....

 

 

but, you know, they do not go for me becayse they ARE DESPERATE.

 

Sheesh, not ALL decent looking men go for girls like me cos', ya know, their DESPERATE and want a quick lay.

 

 

The men who have liked me, to be honest, have really liked a spark in my personality, and are not after a quick shag.

[Leigh 87]

Why the heck is there this idea that decent, hot men, only go for girls like me because they want an easy shag?!?!?!???????

 

 

[Ruby Slippers]

Yes, I think it's obvious that anyone who talks in such a mean-spirited way about other people (men or women) has some self-loathing going on.

 

My last serious boyfriend had a relationship with a major hottie before me. Though I felt a little uneasy about it, I never thought anything bad about her. (And he told me he broke up with her because she was shallow, lame in bed, financially irresponsible, materialistic, and a pain to deal with.)

 

He's now dating a girl who's about as cute as me who seems sweet and works at a humanitarian nonprofit. I don't think anything bad about her, either. When I first saw them together, I did feel a little sorry for her because she'll have to deal with his crap - but he brings some good stuff to the table, too

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Sheesh, not ALL decent looking men go for girls like me cos', ya know, their DESPERATE and want a quick lay.

 

Yes, I got to agree with you Leigh. I think men that believe that good looking men who go for women that might not be considered their physical equals are only desperate, are actually contending with their own self-esteem issues and bitterment. They are usually average regular guys that have had lots of struggles in dating and while they may date average women, uphold other women even over their own partner. That is if they even date. It's the same thing we see in the OP. These men are expressing the same issues and the need to put down or make an explanation for something they don't understand becaue of their own insecurity and a need to "put-women-in-their-place" so to speak.

 

I worked with a girl that told us the story about her parents. Her father was Mr. Popular. Her mother was not popular at all. But they began dating in high school and got married and had kids. The other more popular girls would flirt with him and put her mom down but her Dad was always very loyal and would put those other girls in their place. He wasn't desperate.

[JuneJulySeptember]

The funniest thing about this thread that I don't think anybody has mentioned yet is that if I saw the women OP is talking about (if this story is even real), I'd venture to guess that I'd find them attractive.

 

I don't know how society evolved to create the HUGEST chasms of perceived attractiveness between two persons who have all their legs, arms, feet, and facial features where they are anatomically supposed to be.

[Woggle]

Why are people always so shocked when they learn men are not as shallow as people think we are?

[Ruby Slippers]

These men are expressing the same issues and the need to put down or make an explanation for something they don't understand becaue of their own insecurity and a need to "put-women-in-their-place" so to speak.

 

I worked with a girl that told us the story about her parents. Her father was Mr. Popular. Her mother was not popular at all. But they began dating in high school and got married and had kids. The other more popular girls would flirt with him and put her mom down but her Dad was always very loyal and would put those other girls in their place. He wasn't desperate.

Yeah, you bring up some good points. I feel like a lot of people just cannot handle it if an average or cute girl is dating a really hot guy. What's that about?

 

Average girl is considered worthless - no matter how good a person she is, how smart, caring, honest, whatever.

 

If an average or cute guy dates a hot girl, people see it as a win. Reverse the genders and it has to be some pathetic, desperate thing?

 

Most of the really cute guys I dated were like you described - varying levels of experience, but most of them had women chasing them all over the place. I've dated really cute guys who have dated hot women before, and continued dating women of all kinds afterward.

 

The boyfriend I mentioned - his whole family told me that they'd never seen him so sappy and starry-eyed over a girl before me. And he told me that himself.

 

So it seems clear that hotness is not the sole or even primary motivator for all men - even hot men.

[Leigh 87]

You're not bad looking at all. I'm willing to bet that most guys going for you are about as attractive as yourself. I don't see an issue there

 

 

 

Thanks that is very sweet of you:) However, I have had people shut me down on loveshack, saying " man, your ugly, or shut up Leigh your just a 5/10, your not attractive to many people at all!

A lot of men find me ugly or plain. I have become comfortable with that.

 

Yet, even ugly or plain people like me, have EQUAL amounts of men who think I am very attractive!!!

It is called being average; some men think your gorgeous, but just as many think your plain or ugly.

 

Yet men who are probably considered better looking than me have wanted relationships with me (sucks since I have a partner!)

...Look, if I was butt ugly, then no they would probably have ruled it out regardless of how much they liked my personality.

 

But I am just a 4/5 out of ten to A LOT of men out there, and very attractive men have fallen for ME; they have wanted to be with me just through getting to know me.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

This is generally true though, take it from somebody who likely knows a lot more attractive men than you do and talks to them in pretty good detail about their views on dating. Hell I myself had sex with a woman who was horrible looking to lose my virginity

 

An attractive man expects his wife to be attractive...just like most women earning 100K expect their man to earn a 100K. I work in sales and see people's credit/income all the time...you know how incredibly rare it is to find a woman who is very successful married to a guy who is blue collar?

 

Out of the 10-20 best looking men I know who have a girlfriend, they're all dating somebody about as attractive as themselves (a few of them are dating women who are even more attractive than themselves)

 

You didn't really read what I said. I never said that most highly attractive men date average women. I DO think that most highly attractive men AND women, date highly attractive men and women. I DO think most highly successful women DO date other highly successful men. BUT I also think that other relationships can and DO happen and it's not because someone is simply "desperate".

 

I also think that we are HUGELY underestimating the amount of diversity and people in the world to the point that we are only chalking people up to their looks and finances. People make tons more choices that go beyond these factors!

 

This conversations is overly simplistic.

[DazedConfusedEtc]

Thank you guys for the replies, especially those of you who didn't use this as a forum to insult me.

 

Venusian, thanks for the understanding on this, it means a lot.

 

Leigh, you sound so similar to me!! I'm also 60 kilos, a little more than a year ago I was 44 kilos at 1.71m and a total mess. I know I look much better now and I know you do too -- any hater who tells you that you look better sick is a ***tard. Being healthy and happy are a big part of what makes someone beautiful-- I'm not talking about In a magazine but in real life. You just keep remembering how amazing and strong you are and with time you'll be able to see that you look good, too.

 

Ninja, thanks for the very honest post. You're wrong about a couple of things. First, I don't see someone very attractive in the mirror, quite the opposite. I'm far more critical of myself than what's healthy and normal. I am really really not a supermodel, I'm just not a 2 either, I know that others generally think that I'm attractive. Second, our sex is phenomenal, we like the same stuff -- spanking, anal, 69, public places, dirty talk, many positions, I have never felt this comfortable being my true sexual self with anyone and I know my bf feels the same way. I also know he really and truly thinks I'm beautiful and absolutely loves my ass, hes an ass man. So idk why you'd assume the sex isn't earth moving, it really just is. It's like I've found someone that I can see myself having fantastic sex with in 20 years which is beyond my wildest dreams, let alone someone who can keep up with me now. So basically, my bf has told me that our sex is the best of his life by far many times, I believe him because I feel that way too. It's silly to project your experiences here and assume that I'm speaking for my bf.

[DazedConfusedEtc]

You know DazedConfussedETC, you might not understand your boyfriend but I don't understand women like you. And I am not saying this to "flame" you but to open your eyes to something. You admit to having body issues. You understand the pressure the world puts on women to look a certain way. Hence why you had an eating disorder. You severely feel the pressence of that pressure and it affected you deeply.But you don't consider how other women are affected by the same idealism of beauty pressures. So you continue to project those heavy ideals on other women even as you struggle with those ideals within your own body image. You understand it's not healthy. Yet you are still compelled to judge and condemn other women for things you would never want to be judged or condemned for yourself.

 

You might be skinner than other women. But it doesn't make you a better woman. You might have a nicer body than other women. But it doesn't make you a better woman. You might have beautiful, lush hair. But it doesn't make you a better woman. You might have flawless perfectly smooth skin. But it doesn't make you a better woman. Life, the kind of life every human being truly wants to live, isn't deteremined by a sliding scale of 1-10 for our looks. It might make others feel good to believe the yare better then someone they would call a "2", but if that person needs to put people into a sliding scale like that to begin with, I got to wonder at what they believe their real worth lies. I'm not trying to get all moralistic on you. I'm just asking you to dig into your humanity and show humanity to others. You don't have to be in a competition with women. YOU can be in fellowship with women. And not condemn them for things you fear the world will condemn you for. (Such as your weight or the weight of other women.) I simply don't get women like you that are so eager to tear down other women. Don't we get enough of that from the world? From men? Why do we want to do it to one another?

 

Come on Ladies, do our gender a favor and stop adding to the negative pressures on other women, no matter what other women look like. Stop buying into the that STUPID 1-10 scale. Yeah, yeah, I know that men LOVE to use this scale. Well call them out for it when they do. Then you won't spend so much time worrying about where you fall on that scale and maybe your brain will be filled up with something of more importance.

 

Lets stop tearing each other down.

 

And yes, OP, you are tearing other women down. Even in the face of the issues you struggle with regarding your own looks. Do you think your boyfriend's exes didn't struggle with their bodies or looks? I don't know any woman that doesn't. Some women might not be as vocal about it but it doesn't mean that women, whether super models or not, don't all face that eternal question about their looks and feminity. Women you describe as "2s" don't really need you to continue on projecting negativity about their looks just because you think your somewhat better than them.

 

Stop the hate and prejudice. And yes, you are displaying a certain kind of prejudice. Against your own gender! It's possible that your self-loathing and self-esteem are even lower then you even believed yourself.

 

I'm not going to reply with a 12 page essay here, and I appreciate the attempt at some kind of social commentary here but this is full of flaws:

-why do you assume I'm skinny or skinnier than these girls? I'm recovered and at a healthy weight. There are many women who are less thin than me who are better looking than I am. This is YOU making this about weight.

-this is not gender specific, there are many unattractive men out there too.

-I don't hate myself but thanks for the dime store psychology

-as much as people want to claim that they're unaffected by our culture it's not true, period. Orbach's classic "Fat is a Feminist Issue" lays this out nicely.

 

 

 

 

Also, all of you that are assuming that these unattractive women had awesome personalities, why?? I know for a fact my bf wasn't into their perdonalities,

He wanted to get his pole wet.

 

I guess being enlightened beings means claiming we don't notice anyone's appearance and everyone we've banged is the love child or mother Teresa and Gandhi. Oops, I guess I'm a mere mortal then.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Yes, I think it's obvious that anyone who talks in such a mean-spirited way about other people (men or women) has some self-loathing going on.

 

My last serious boyfriend had a relationship with a major hottie before me. Though I felt a little uneasy about it, I never thought anything bad about her. (And he told me he broke up with her because she was shallow, lame in bed, financially irresponsible, materialistic, and a pain to deal with.)

 

He's now dating a girl who's about as cute as me who seems sweet and works at a humanitarian nonprofit. I don't think anything bad about her, either. When I first saw them together, I did feel a little sorry for her because she'll have to deal with his crap - but he brings some good stuff to the table, too

 

Wow, he's already dating someone new already?

 

I thought you guys had something pretty serious? I thought you were getting deep with this guy.

 

Not trying to be a jerk (but I don't mind If I am because I'm just being honest) but that has to affect you and your emotions of what you had....something you were so certain was powerful and connecting in the moment and in your posts about him.

 

How do you see him moving on just like that after that kind of an experience?

[Ruby Slippers]

This picture says it all - http://girlscanlift.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/strong-and-skinny.jpg

Here's another great quote from a gal in great shape- http://www.fiterature.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/strong-is-the-new-skinny1.jpg

No wonder I'm doing so well with the men. My body type is now in vogue (I'm not as ripped as that first lady, but I'm fit with curves, not skinny.)

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Yeah, you bring up some good points. I feel like a lot of people just cannot handle it if an average or cute girl is dating a really hot guy. What's that about?

 

Average girl is considered worthless - no matter how good a person she is, how smart, caring, honest, whatever.

 

If an average or cute guy dates a hot girl, people see it as a win. Reverse the genders and it has to be some pathetic, desperate thing?

 

We aren't socialized to believe or see average or cute girls with highly attractive men because most programming still revolves around a male-run society. I know some people will role their eyes at that or start trying to use some reverse psychology about the evils of feminism, but it's just simply the truth. We are totally socialized to see average guys with highly attractive women. Alot of men use women as barometers of their own worth. Even today, women are still considered "trophies" for their looks on some level. Some men get their self-esteem based on the woman they can parade around on their arm. This isn't really healthy, but it's HIGHLY common in our society. Which is why average women are ripped apart, even by average guys.

 

It's the reason why shows like Big Bang Theory use the main female character, Penny, as the hottie, surrounded by nerds, and not four nerdy females with a hot guy. It's the reason why GoDaddy.com had that superbowl commercial with the extremely attractive Bar Refaeli to kiss the more plain man but a commercial with the genders and roles reversed wouldn't be as entertaining. Average men want to believe that they have a chance with super-models (not average women like themselves). If they show an average/plain man kissing a hot supermodel, then all the average guys watching feel a little more manly by association to the nerdy guy projected in the commercial that represents all average guys. They believe that that can be them. Average, regular guys with hot babes is such more of a common and successfully displayed fantasy in our media then hot guys with regular women. And it's that way because a lot of our programming is still largely run in favor of men. Which is why the top highest earning male actor earns about $40,0000+ more a year then the highest earning female actress. I don't even think people realize how much of this is brainwashed into our society. Lately I have been paying attention to just how many movies are coupling older men with younger female leads. I grew up watching Leonardo DiCapio. Now his leading ladies are at least a decade younger then himself. He's not even that old. It's ridiculous.

 

 

Most of the really cute guys I dated were like you described - varying levels of experience, but most of them had women chasing them all over the place. I've dated really cute guys who have dated hot women before, and continued dating women of all kinds afterward.

 

The boyfriend I mentioned - his whole family told me that they'd never seen him so sappy and starry-eyed over a girl before me. And he told me that himself.

 

So it seems clear that hotness is not the sole or even primary motivator for all men - even hot men.

 

Men like that are truly confident men. They don't feel like they need to proove themselves through a false sense of worth through their partner's looks. They don't need or want to use their partners for barometers of their worth. They go for what they like and that takes more confidence than the average joe that wants the super hot girl on his arm. Or the average man that says "lucky dog", to a guy just because his partner is hot.

 

I'm taking this class about finances and it was talking about how there are certain people that have a lot of money that simply don't feel the need to impress people. They don't feel the need to impress people because they know themselves and their worth. We all have heard about those people. They make a lot of money but they still drive their decade old car. They don't wear fancy clothes. They don't care about impressing others. Then you have people that go into serious debt so that they can have a big house and nice cars to impress people. From the outside they look like they got it all together because they have all the right items but underneath they are swiming in debt.

 

And I see this situation akin to what you described Ruby. Hot guys that date less attractive women (or any kind of women), they know themselves. They don't need to answer to others. They don't need to prove anything with an image.

[Ruby Slippers]

Wow, he's already dating someone new already?

Not that guy. Yes, he was technically my last boyfriend - but I was talking about my last "serious boyfriend", from about 5 years back. No matter how much I liked that last guy, I don't think you can get too serious in 6 months

 

I doubt he's seeing anyone yet. But we're not in contact, so I don't have to think about that - which is nice.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Ruby Slippers

[Leigh 87]

Thank you guys for the replies, especially those of you who didn't use this as a forum to insult me.

 

Venusian, thanks for the understanding on this, it means a lot.

 

Leigh, you sound so similar to me!! I'm also 60 kilos, a little more than a year ago I was 44 kilos at 1.71m and a total mess. I know I look much better now and I know you do too -- any hater who tells you that you look better sick is a ***tard. Being healthy and happy are a big part of what makes someone beautiful-- I'm not talking about In a magazine but in real life. You just keep remembering how amazing and strong you are and with time you'll be able to see that you look good, too.

 

 

 

44 kilos was my lowest too, and Iam 169 cm, but I am naturally very curvy, I have a 32 DD bust when I am 50 kilos, and a large bubble butt.

 

From my resarch on the matter, perhaps 60 kilos is not optimal for your recovery; anorexics tend to need to gain a tad over their thinnest natural weight, in order to restore their regulaer thought processes.

 

I have connections to a top expert on the matter, if your interested in visising her website, she's a GP with a special interest in eating disorders.....

 

 

 

 

 

The ironic thing with women like us? We ENCOURAGE women to love themselves, yet secretly, we really do think " f*ck, I feel so sorry for those women who are ugly and fat"

We cannot fathom being that normal size, or looking less than great, so we feel inately sorry for women who are "fat".

 

I no longer feel this way, and seriously, my life is PEACEFUL now.

 

I was not a totally happy person until I stopped feeling sorry for women who were not thin and beautiful.

 

They can be every bit as happy as us, and find a loving partner....

 

It is less often a great looking man will get an ugly girlfriend.

 

It does happen though, and should not be laughed at

 

........................................................

 

I am weight restored now and free from my active eating disorder, I have been at a high enuogh weight to overcome disordered thougths, although if I lose too much weight I will get an easting disorderback again.

 

PLEASE PM me if you want support

[PJKino]

Why are people always so shocked when they learn men are not as shallow as people think we are?

 

Women project their own vanity and shallowness onto men