Is it really a good idea to become friends first?

[Mrlonelyone]

I know this is the "traditional" advice but I really don't agree.

 

If you meet someone NEW, if there is some sort of attraction there then you need to attempt to have them see you as someone with dating potential. Putting yourself in the friend zone then eventually trying to win them over rarely works... not saying never but rarely.

You have removed any attraction which may have been there initially.

 

The thing about the friend zone is that you can't put yourself there. Someone else has to put you there. It's where people are sent against their will. They stay in orbit hoping to get into the intimate space, only to see someone who's not as much of a friend get into that space. (This didn't sound as suggestive in my head). Then they complain about being in the friend zone.

 

When in reality they weren't ever friends with the person (man or woman). They only wanted sex and did not care what a bastard the person was.

 

When I say become friends as a way to get to be intimate with someone. It means genuinely caring about them and their interest. Get to know them and some of their friends and they get to know your friends. All without the explicit (but perhaps implied) desire to date them. Get to know them as people not just targets of lust.

[miss_jaclynrae]

I have always been a fan of cold approaching.

I think it makes it more fun getting to know this whole new person.

 

 

That is just me though.

[Mrlonelyone]

Are you the one doing the approaching?

[miss_jaclynrae]

Are you the one doing the approaching?

 

Both. Not anymore since I have a boyfriend.

 

 

But I have always approached and been approached.

My boyfriend cold approached me, but ask anyone and they will say I have no problem going up to a man I do not know, introducing myself, and suggesting a date. :wink:

[phineas]

Didn't read all 3 pages.

If she wants to be friends then be friends.

 

That means treat her like a friend.

 

Call her up as you are walking out the door to see if she wants to join you. ect.

Friendzone her.

 

I must warn you though, if you cannot get other women you will not validate yourself as a desired man nor will you make her think she made a mistake by rejecting you.

 

Also, if you can get other women & she changes her mind...you will most likely not want her anymore.

[ScreamingTrees]

You do realize that women, even women you may not like or may not like you, often are friends with other women, right? And those other women are often friends with even more other women, right? And that if you are cool with one woman, word is likely to trickle out among all of these other women that you're a good dude, right?

 

Am I the only guy in the world who understands the concept of 'networking'?

 

That's like saying that your guy friends would help you. If I was still around the friends I had in high school now, my or any other guy's dating life would not be a blip on their radars.

 

The women you are describing are not waking up going "hmm, wow, bill is such a nice guy, I'm going to be his personal match maker today!" I don't think anyone wakes up worrying about someone else unless they're immediate blood relatives who are a regular part of their life.

 

Hell, I have blood relatives who could spit on my dead body and I've done nothing to them other than exist. If you want something, you have to go for it yourself, no one will ever help you, you cannot depend on that.

 

The chances of someone helping to set you up with a nice friend without you having even asked is not something you should count on. It's like waiting for a random girl to hit on you for your phone number.. It might happen, but how many times do you really think it does?

 

If you're so great, they probably figure they wouldn't NEED to set you up, they'd assume you're so awesome that you probably have a girlfriend already.

 

Maybe if you're really old and have no luck and you DO have a large enough group of friends, perhaps one of them will set you up with what they see as an equally screwed up female, for fear that you're gay or going to die alone.

[Estate]

The thing about the friend zone is that you can't put yourself there. Someone else has to put you there. It's where people are sent against their will. They stay in orbit hoping to get into the intimate space, only to see someone who's not as much of a friend get into that space. (This didn't sound as suggestive in my head). Then they complain about being in the friend zone.

 

When in reality they weren't ever friends with the person (man or woman). They only wanted sex and did not care what a bastard the person was.

 

When I say become friends as a way to get to be intimate with someone. It means genuinely caring about them and their interest. Get to know them and some of their friends and they get to know your friends. All without the explicit (but perhaps implied) desire to date them. Get to know them as people not just targets of lust.

 

I know what you mean about the terminology but I still don't think it's a good idea.

If you come into a girls life and want to date them then I think you need to come in as a viable dating option. If you come in as something other than that then it's just a bit "weird" to suddenly try to change it up.

 

I know conventional thinking and advice and well... movies say this is a good idea but I think it's a rare thing that she suddenly wakes up one morning and realises "that one she's been looking for has been right there all along..."

 

It

s not impossible, it just makes life harder and then you have to deal with it possibly ruining a friendship if it doesn't work... a friendship you "cared" about yet were willing to ruin...

... yet at the same time were REALLY only forming this friendship to turn it into something else...

... so that doesn't really make sense in the end.

[Necris]

You do realize that women, even women you may not like or may not like you, often are friends with other women, right? And those other women are often friends with even more other women, right? And that if you are cool with one woman, word is likely to trickle out among all of these other women that you're a good dude, right?

 

Am I the only guy in the world who understands the concept of 'networking'?

 

Thing is I've never experienced that in my life, the only place I hear about that is the internet. I never had a friend that was female who ever tried even remotely tried to help my dating life in even the slightest way. I've only had one guy friend my entire life actually introduce me to a woman, and that woman wasn't even interested in me at all, she wanted my friend but he wasn't interested in her.

[jcrew11]

If they're already friends, it's pretty safe to assume she already thinks he's a good, nice, safe guy and not a rapist. I get what you're saying, it seems ok as long as the OP isn't anticipating a reward for doing what's expected of him as a friend. Whatever works for you -- I just don't think this will. This would be far from my MO. At that point in the game, if you have to ask to kiss, I think you're probably doing something wrong.

 

I'm just not too into the idea of being friends first. Usually attraction is pretty apparent right off the bat. People will chime in here with a lot of exceptions, which are fine, sometimes you can earn it if it's not given right away. But that requires a lot of things.

 

The OP is terrible with women and has no experience. I think before he "rushes to ask a girl out and get rejected" he actually has to get comfortable being around women his age. For virgins under 21, its very difficult to number close in 5 minutes. He just doesn't have the self esteem for women to view him as an attractive mate. Also, these beta male virgins are very physically undeveloped and socially undeveloped under the age of 21. He'll have more success asking girls out 3-4 years younger than him, who will view him as mature and cooler.

 

But I would also say many girls under 21 are more prudish and picky if they have not dated a lot. These prudish and picky girls will not view him as a desirable boyfriend.

 

So I suggest to the OP, you NEED to develop Platonic female friends and these women can then act as wing-women and give you advice on getting a girlfriend. If he really wants to turn a platonic girl into a girl-friend, it will likely take several months given his lack of "flirt game." As I said, a lot of these young prudish girls need many months to develop trust and begin liking a guy.

 

In the old days, no one had sex until marriage, and the courting process was years and platonic. The OP does not need to be in a rush to ask a girl out and kiss her or have sex with her. He merely has to become a trustworthy friend first; and after spending time with a particular girl, he might not even enjoy her company.

 

I don't think he's wasting his time. He can use "jealousy" to pit two girls and change their minds. If a girl sees another girl interested in him, it will ignite jealous feelings in her; and he gets laid.

[jcrew11]

I know what you mean about the terminology but I still don't think it's a good idea.

If you come into a girls life and want to date them then I think you need to come in as a viable dating option. If you come in as something other than that then it's just a bit "weird" to suddenly try to change it up.

 

I know conventional thinking and advice and well... movies say this is a good idea but I think it's a rare thing that she suddenly wakes up one morning and realises "that one she's been looking for has been right there all along..."

 

It

s not impossible, it just makes life harder and then you have to deal with it possibly ruining a friendship if it doesn't work... a friendship you "cared" about yet were willing to ruin...

... yet at the same time were REALLY only forming this friendship to turn it into something else...

... so that doesn't really make sense in the end.

 

I think most guys can learn to live with "ruined friendships with women" and moving on - people come and go, and friends come an go, and move around. The OP has zero game with women, and your telling him his life won't be 100 percent improved with platonic female friends. The "courting" process isn't always "dinner, movie, and sex." There is no rule that he has to keep asking out women until he finds someone to sleep with him. Its a training process that he must take with baby steps.

[Estate]

I think most guys can learn to live with "ruined friendships with women" and moving on - people come and go, and friends come an go, and move around. The OP has zero game with women, and your telling him his life won't be 100 percent improved with platonic female friends. The "courting" process isn't always "dinner, movie, and sex." There is no rule that he has to keep asking out women until he finds someone to sleep with him. Its a training process that he must take with baby steps.

 

That's not what I said.

 

If he wants female friends, then have female friends.

 

But what he's suggesting is not really a friendship. I think it's dishonest. He wants to be "friends" but at the same time has the attitude of "oh well, who cares, she didn't **** me" when she's gone?

[jcrew11]

That's not what I said.

 

If he wants female friends, then have female friends.

 

But what he's suggesting is not really a friendship. I think it's dishonest. He wants to be "friends" but at the same time has the attitude of "oh well, who cares, she didn't **** me" when she's gone?

 

I understand that you don't want him to become the "gay best friend" but for a guy with no female friends or understanding of females, he should become platonic friends knowing that at some point later, he will need to end the "friendship" for whatever reasons or if he finds a different girlfriend.

 

Part of "Social Circle Game" is that a Man begins with a platonic relationship with a woman in some non-romantic setting like a Class or Sports; and after spending days or weeks in a platonic setting, the woman trusts the man enough, to allow him to be her boyfriend.

 

The OP needs to develop a Social Circle Game, because his Cold Approach Game is not working.

[KungFuJoe]

In my previous thread where I mentioned the rejection I had this week, alot of the advice given was about slowly becoming friends first with women then after you've become good friends with them, then you attempt to ask them out.

 

I'm just wondering is that really a good strategy?

 

Besides the amount of time required to execute this plan, what happens if I'm rejected? I could potentially lose a friend. Plus does friendship really create attraction? Wouldn't friendship just make me a friend and not a potential date in her eyes?

 

The fact that you even POSE this question is slightly......odd.

 

Forming friendships and relationships are basic human nature. Asking whether or not you should be friends with someone is asking whether or not you should be breathing.

 

No offense to you op, but have you ever been diagnosed with a social disorder...maybe autism or aspergers?

[e40]

Most women won't allow friends first.

[Necris]

The fact that you even POSE this question is slightly......odd.

 

Forming friendships and relationships are basic human nature. Asking whether or not you should be friends with someone is asking whether or not you should be breathing.

 

No offense to you op, but have you ever been diagnosed with a social disorder...maybe autism or aspergers?

 

I have female friends that I'm perfectly content with being friends with, what I'm asking is, is it a good idea to be friends first with a woman then try to pursue a relationship.

[Els]

I've found that people have such widely different definitions of what 'friends' means that it's virtually impossible for anyone to tell you what to do. IMO, if your definition of 'friends' means orbiting one girl like a little puppy dog hanging desperately on any scraps of attention because you like her and you do that for 6 months before asking her out... don't. If 'friends' means you get to know as many people as possible and naturally develop attraction to them along the way and ask them out, sure.

[ascendotum]

I'm just here trying to help dudes get girls or dates or laid or whatever. It's fine to ignore my advice....just know that you're doing so at your own expense.

 

Bob, my observations of girls when it comes to setting up a male friend, is similar to the joke about banks and lending..when you don't need the money they are trying to talk you into extra finance, but when you reaallly need finance they give you a hard time. The guys who have no troubles finding girls get helped out with setup dates by their female friends, but the guys who struggle get overlooked. As P said ..."if you cannot get other women you will not validate yourself as a desired man".

I definitely think its good to have female friends to expand your social circle and get to meet other girls, but more so indirectly rather than direct introduction. The guy will need to take the initiative at any social gatherings.

[bac]

In my previous thread where I mentioned the rejection I had this week, alot of the advice given was about slowly becoming friends first with women then after you've become good friends with them, then you attempt to ask them out.

 

I'm just wondering is that really a good strategy?

 

Besides the amount of time required to execute this plan, what happens if I'm rejected? I could potentially lose a friend. Plus does friendship really create attraction? Wouldn't friendship just make me a friend and not a potential date in her eyes?

 

Yes, it is the best plan, IMO.

[eduardo23]

I'm a fan of cold approaches. There are tons of great women out there and by learning to cold approach you will meet more of them. Plus you will hopefully get rejected or succeed quickly and won't spend months on someone who doesn't even want to date you.

[jcrew11]

I have female friends that I'm perfectly content with being friends with, what I'm asking is, is it a good idea to be friends first with a woman then try to pursue a relationship.

 

As I mentioned, its called "Social Circle Game" where you can be flirtatious and friendly (without harassing) in a non-romantic place over a period of weeks or months, and have her get to know you on a platonic level to determine interest. If you get caught in the "friend zone" its important to play up the "Jealousy" angle and start talking to her about other hot girls you want to date.

 

Don't get too attached or desperate. But I see nothing wrong with becoming friends with hot women. They just have more walls you need to break through.

[carhill]

Is it really a good idea to become friends first?

 

People's definition of 'friends' varies. Mine is shared interests, philosophies and/or passions in life. 'Getting' each other. Note that 'attraction' isn't listed.

 

I'm just wondering is that really a good strategy?

 

I don't think 'strategy' is a way I would put it; that sounds too deliberate. 'Style' might be more synergistic. If one's style is to grow relationships out of associations, that's one's style. If one's style is see relationship potential, or lack of, immediately upon meeting, that's one's style. If the styles hit, that. If they miss, that.

 

Personally, I can't think of one woman I've met in life who wanted to be 'friends' if she was attracted, no matter when that attraction occurred. That's really good information and guidance. Do what you do. If it matches up, it does. If not, not. IME, the gift of a large social circle and numerous healthy and close friends is that, even if painful, the loss of one, whether to death or disassociation, impacts one less than if one has all their 'eggs' in one basket. I tended to do the latter as a younger man and learned those life lessons.

 

What I do these days is be true to my style of growing relationships out of associations and expressing attraction if and when it happens. If the woman is on the same page, that's healthy. If she's not, that's healthy. Billions more to be encountered.

[Casablanca]

I've always taken "friends first" to mean she doesnt want to sleep with you anytime soon until she is really sure that she likes you a lot and wants to make sure things are still good after the honey moon period.