thank you, St.V, for making me join the single ladies, again

[Els]

Ergh, really low signs of interest there. IMO guys who are interested in a girl and in the early stages of dating actually try to find any excuse they can to woo her. Even those who don't care for commercial stuff will try to meet up with her on VDay (even if they don't buy her stuff) because if she agrees to go out with him on a date of significance to HER, that means she's really into him and he wants to know that. You asked to join him and he said you couldn't, for chrissakes. Really bad sign.

[Rita86]

Communicate your feelings with him & decide to move forward or break it off for good.

Those are your options

[Rita86]

Ergh, really low signs of interest there. IMO guys who are interested in a girl and in the early stages of dating actually try to find any excuse they can to woo her. Even those who don't care for commercial stuff will try to meet up with her on VDay (even if they don't buy her stuff) because if she agrees to go out with him on a date of significance to HER, that means she's really into him and he wants to know that. You asked to join him and he said you couldn't, for chrissakes. Really bad sign.

 

She also told him once he couldn't join her on her girl's night out.

 

Sure his reasons are sucky but he's also allowed to spend time with friends without her.

 

Problem is she didn't communicate her feelings towards VD early enough so when this happens she flips **** & expects him to cancel on a friend.

 

I would also bet she would still be complaining even if she joined him & his friend because she wanted it to be a special day for them.

[Els]

She also told him once he couldn't join her on her girl's night out.

 

Sure his reasons are sucky but he's also allowed to spend time with friends without her.

 

Problem is she didn't communicate her feelings towards VD early enough so when this happens she flips **** & expects him to cancel on a friend.

 

I would also bet she would still be complaining even if she joined him & his friend because she wanted it to be a special day for them.

 

1 month is honeymoon phase territory. You should not need an in-depth conversation about your feelings about that day, at that point. Just look at all the guys here trying to use VDay to get a special date night with the girl they're interested in. I'm sure they don't all think that VDay is a day of love and rainbows and happiness, for most of them it's just a means to an end - which is getting brownie points with their desired girl. OP's bf does not seem interested in that end at all.

[Leigh 87]

That is absolutely it. To him St.V. meant nothing, so the hell with it. Regardless if it meant anything to me. And no matter how many times I was explaining that to him - it's not about the box of chocolate, it's about something that means something to ME, nothing. Zero. No echo. HE just dismissed it.

 

 

 

........... You know, if everything else was great with him, I would say let this one slide..

 

The fact he does not have any friends really, or ..seam to care about your feelings, is what bothers me.

 

Sure it is always better for many girls, if a guy just makes a date with her, or buys her a single rose. ANything small, just a small sign!

 

With him, he sees st V as meaningless, and would therefore not bother with it even with a girl he loves the most!

 

...This is not that big of a deal alone, but he is unwilling to consider your feelings!

 

My guy did not like some KEY things that I needed in the relationship, but he has changed his ways a bit to accommodate me, like we discussed in my pm.

[Leigh 87]

Ergh, really low signs of interest there. IMO guys who are interested in a girl and in the early stages of dating actually try to find any excuse they can to woo her. Even those who don't care for commercial stuff will try to meet up with her on VDay (even if they don't buy her stuff) because if she agrees to go out with him on a date of significance to HER, that means she's really into him and he wants to know that. You asked to join him and he said you couldn't, for chrissakes. Really bad sign.

 

 

Low interest? Normally I would agree, however: he DID say Valentines day literally meant nothing to him.

 

..He seamed to have an aversion to it, because he did not care for the occasion, where as he KNEW she did...

 

So instead of appeasing her, which is not hard to do (buy some flowers, make a date with no presents) he bailed and could not even bother making her feel better.

 

Hmm...

[PogoStick]

OP Sounds like a girl I'd be happy to have dump me.

[Els]

Low interest? Normally I would agree, however: he DID say Valentines day literally meant nothing to him.

 

..He seamed to have an aversion to it, because he did not care for the occasion, where as he KNEW she did...

 

So instead of appeasing her, which is not hard to do (buy some flowers, make a date with no presents) he bailed and could not even bother making her feel better.

 

Hmm...

 

Yup, this is what I mean - I admit I didn't phrase it terribly well. I think that many guys can take or leave VDay, personally. But regardless of their personal feelings for VDay, when they are in honeymoon phase, my observation has been that they usually do make an effort if they're interested in the girl, because they want to impress her.

 

I'm not saying the OP is faultless, though - her ballistic response was totally unjustified.

[Els]

My guy did not like some KEY things that I needed in the relationship, but he has changed his ways a bit to accommodate me, like we discussed in my pm.

 

And this definitely applies to long-term relationships - though IMO if a R has reached, say, the 1-year stage and the guy doesn't do anything for VDay because the girl didn't tell him early on that it meant something special to her, she only has herself to blame.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Elswyth

[candie13]

She also told him once he couldn't join her on her girl's night out.

 

Sure his reasons are sucky but he's also allowed to spend time with friends without her.

 

Problem is she didn't communicate her feelings towards VD early enough so when this happens she flips **** & expects him to cancel on a friend.

 

I would also bet she would still be complaining even if she joined him & his friend because she wanted it to be a special day for them.

 

I really encourage and want him to spend time with other people than me. Had it been any other day, I just wouldn't give a sh*t about that. I got tons of friends, I have my books, I have my hobbies, I don't need a bf to fill my days. This wasn't just any day, it was St.V.

 

And while I may not have communicated how important that stupid celebration was, he did make and kept other plans regardless. I found that hurtful. That's my issue.

[candie13]

OP Sounds like a girl I'd be happy to have dump me.

 

Well, Pogo, that's pretty much what I made out of all this situation. After our other talk, this morning, I took my laptop and dropped him another mail, explaining how I saw things and ... yeah, saying that we just have different views and different ways of reacting. That most likely we were not on the same page. That I find him selfish and it's important for a guy (my guy) to be gentle with me. Do nice things, to treat me with kindness. And even when I explicitly asked him to, he would not. So maybe we should not see each other anymore.

 

I didn't do it to intimidate him or show my balls or whatever. I do realize I have handled things horribly and that, most importantly, I need confirmation on a lot of levels - detail which a regular bloke might find offputting or infuriating. I don't want to spend my days thinking about stuff he didn't tell me. I hate it that he did that! When he asks me what I am doing - which is all the time, every day, I am telling the truth, not avoiding the question.

 

So yeah, I sent him the email at 11 and one hour later he called again. He was ... I don't know, really sad and I just couldn't talk on the phone like that, this leads nowhere. So we'll be meeting up early next week to talk. Coffee no dinner. No cooking.

 

I hate it when that happens. I have no idea what to say. I'll just take the weekend to get away. Fresh start, however things turn up.

[Almond_Joy]

Have a good weekend. It probably would be good not to think about this over the weekend, just do something fun and relax, for a bit.

 

Something I noticed from your other posts....you said he doesn't have many friends where he lives? And he managed to have a guy invite him to be wingman on VDay.

 

Maybe guys friendships work different, but if he doesn't really have friends then this was a prime opportunity for him to build on a potential friendship. I mean if he doesn't have friends how often does he get asked to hang out or feel comfortable asking guys to hang out?

 

You say you want him to make friends, but to me it seemed like he was trying to do that here by hanging out with this guy and you faulted him for that.

 

You as the girlfriend are important, but having a network of friends is important too. If he's not big on VDay I could see how keeping this hangout with the guy that he'd already agreed to would be the priority for him. He's trying to fulfill a very legitimate personal need for socialization here, from my perspective.

 

If you had told him in advance how important this day was to you I'd have thought he's being a bit douchey. But you didn't. You told him in the moment and put him on the spot. He shouldn't have to dishonor an arrangement with another person to fulfill your need. Putting him in that position was unfair, and I think you should appreciate that he is willing to stand by his agreements, regardless of who they are too. Plenty of men and women ditch friends to put the needs of their partner first. When they do that long enough they start losing their friends because they are neglecting the friendships.

 

Don't put him in that position, and be upfront about the things that are important to you IN ADVANCE, so that he has time to actually arrange to accommodate your needs. He did offer to hang out with you after and called you multiple times later that night and then again in the morning. I think he does want to be with you and make you happy, but on this particular Vday you put him in a bad spot and he couldn't do it. He seems more than willing to try and make it up to you.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Almond_Joy

[outsidethebox]

Totally offbase and reversed. Of course they had an agreement to be together ("date") for V Day, it was important to her. He cancelled out day before ("won't be available") with no given reason. She didn't even find out he was with some freakin guy till V Day evening in an ill advised continuation of communications with Mr. "I'm not available".

 

Spare me. Dump him and make some more deserving guy lucky.

[sb129]

IMO men who aren't interested don't call or text AT ALL after a woman flips out to that level.

 

Thanks for the entertainment!

[Rita86]

I really encourage and want him to spend time with other people than me. Had it been any other day, I just wouldn't give a sh*t about that. I got tons of friends, I have my books, I have my hobbies, I don't need a bf to fill my days. This wasn't just any day, it was St.V.

 

And while I may not have communicated how important that stupid celebration was, he did make and kept other plans regardless. I found that hurtful. That's my issue.

 

But do you realise how crazy that is? You say if it was any other day you wouldn't care. But you never once told him VD was a big deal to you heck you made him feel otherwise by telling him you don't have to see each other on the 14th and meet up another day.

 

Yet when he tells you he's no longer available to be with you on the 14th you get incredibly angry at him for not wanting to be with you on VD. But you never told him it was that important only after he called you that he understood how important it was to you.

 

The fault is on you for not being upfront with him in the first place.

He's also to blame because he did not take your feelings into consideration once you voiced them.

 

Anyway it's good you're meeting up. You need to decide though if this is something you can let go & move forward with. You're entitled to feel the way you feel. Take some time to just think about everything & when you meet up with him try to listen to him and what he has to say.

 

Good luck!

[Almond_Joy]

Totally offbase and reversed. Of course they had an agreement to be together ("date") for V Day, it was important to her. He cancelled out day before ("won't be available") with no given reason. She didn't even find out he was with some freakin guy till V Day evening in an ill advised continuation of communications with Mr. "I'm not available".

 

Spare me. Dump him and make some more deserving guy lucky.

 

If they already had an agreement, why was she asking if he's going to come see her in the first place? He'd agreed to hang out with this friend before she asked him what they were doing for VDay, and she did NOT explain how important this day was to her until he said he's unavailable.

 

If I've misunderstood something about what happened here, OP, please let me know.

[Fondue]

If they already had an agreement, why was she asking if he's going to come see her in the first place? He'd agreed to hang out with this friend before she asked him what they were doing for VDay, and she did NOT explain how important this day was to her until he said he's unavailable.

 

If I've misunderstood something about what happened here, OP, please let me know.

 

Come on now! He should have known! Men are mind readers, right!?

[outsidethebox]

Almond Joy, second line down in OP post:

 

"we were supposed to see eachother tomorrow - he might not have realized it was St.V. Texts me to say "he's not available tomorrow"."

 

I have a pretty good retention. That was pretty fundamental to situation. Not having plans and asking day before is completely different situation.

[candie13]

That's exactly why I got so upset: he did say he wanted to see me before I left, the only day possible / that was left being "tomorrow"/ St. V., for which he apparently has made plans. Maybe not weeks in advance, maybe even that day.

 

I did not want to push for a "St.V" date, because I did not want to be the crazy girl who "expects" something for that day. However, yeah, in my mind, attendance - from him - for StV was expected - because of what he had te me & because that's what people in happy couples do. I thought we were one of those.

 

I know it sounds again crazy, but in court, not saying "no" means implicitly yes. My only expectation for StV was to spend it together, because he did not say otherwise - and that was also in line with our plans.

 

That's why I got so upset & I felt so disappointed. That was "my expectation" - him showing up - and I sort of felt he had implied it.

 

Of course, when he said he wouldn't, I started all those crazy assumptions, from him being a commitment phobic to his wanting to date other women. That was wrong of me, but yes, I must confess I was never really stood up, and never for St.V. Most of the times, people respect me enough to tell what they do and to do what they say.

[Almond_Joy]

Almond Joy, second line down in OP post:

 

"we were supposed to see eachother tomorrow - he might not have realized it was St.V. Texts me to say "he's not available tomorrow"."

 

I have a pretty good retention. That was pretty fundamental to situation. Not having plans and asking day before is completely different situation.

 

 

Thanks.

 

That's exactly why I got so upset: he did say he wanted to see me before I left, the only day possible / that was left being "tomorrow"/ St. V., for which he apparently has made plans. Maybe not weeks in advance, maybe even that day.

 

I did not want to push for a "St.V" date, because I did not want to be the crazy girl who "expects" something for that day. However, yeah, in my mind, attendance - from him - for StV was expected - because of what he had te me & because that's what people in happy couples do. I thought we were one of those.

 

I know it sounds again crazy, but in court, not saying "no" means implicitly yes. My only expectation for StV was to spend it together, because he did not say otherwise - and that was also in line with our plans.

 

That's why I got so upset & I felt so disappointed. That was "my expectation" - him showing up - and I sort of felt he had implied it.

 

So what you're saying is that you did not actually make plans for Vday prior. That was your implied expectation from what you said.

 

May seem like I'm splitting hairs but I've been frustrated dozens of times by this same situation for thinking this way.

 

I say "We should do something on Wednesday". Guy says "Sounds good.". Wednesday comes and he's got something else planned. I'm pissed and say "Thought we were doing something today?!" Guy's like "What?"

 

I don't know what it is about some men that makes them incapable of reading between the lines, but in my experience you have to spell out things to a T for them, especially for things they don't have much personal interest in.

 

Given what you said, I do understand why you would expect him to have connected the dots. To me, it's pretty clear. To your guy.....the example I gave above may be applicable. Whether it's right for you to expect him to understand your implications, or whether it's right for him to not have expectations because they weren't clearly expressed.....IMO now that's up in the air.

 

One of the guys I had this problem with is my current bf. I told my bf I want him to take more initiative with dates and events. He does that now - problem solved.

[sb129]

When you have an expectation of a man, it generally helps to communicate that to them PRIOR to the event. If you want to see someone on wednesday and they say yes, make the plan there and then!

Lots of people say "sure" to things meaning "yes, I'd love to see you again" but life is busy, things come up, you shouldn't always take a rescheduling of plans as a personal affront.

 

I feel sorry for men who have to interpret this kind of behaviour- valentines day really doesn't mean that much to lots of people.

 

He probably thought things were going quite well until you got mad over expectations he knew nothing about.

 

The fact that he is still in contact with you is encouraging- I think you should focus on that rather than the missed valentines day.

When men aren't that into you or lose interest- they don't call/ talk/ want to work things out.

 

Relax...go with the flow.

Edited February 16, 2013 by sb129

[Almond_Joy]

When you have an expectation of a man, it generally helps to communicate that to them PRIOR to the event. If you want to see someone on wednesday and they say yes, make the plan there and then!

Lots of people say "sure" to things meaning "yes, I'd love to see you again" but life is busy, things come up, you shouldn't always take a rescheduling of plans as a personal affront.

 

 

I honestly didn't get this until my current relationship. I've been walking around for years thinking the exes that I had this problem with just didn't care about me and my needs. I feel bad for thinking poorly of them now because of this lol.

 

A little extra communication goes a long way, and can result in a win win. The man isn't confused and frustrated for not meeting expectations he didn't know were in place, and the woman gets her needs met by the guy.

[sb129]

A little extra communication goes a long way, and can result in a win win. The man isn't confused and frustrated for not meeting expectations he didn't know were in place, and the woman gets her needs met by the guy.

 

Definitely.

 

And its probably hardest when you are in the early stages of a relationship as you don't know eachother all that well and are still on your best behaviour!

 

I will always have to communicate some specific "needs" to my husband even now after over 6 years together.

They're pretty minor, and we've worked out ways of communicating that works for us as a couple (most of the time), but it took a while to get there and we're still learning esp now with kids in the mix.

 

Some things he now just gets, but there are still things that he just doesn't seem hardwired to notice and I've learned that is just the way he is rather than taking it personally...

[candie13]

Thanks a lot, guys & girls, your posts made a lot of sense and actually explain to a certain extent what I call "the uncharted territory" of male behavior.

 

I have always thought that if a guy is interested, he would pay attention to these details, especially at the beginning. It may sound silly, but it is at the beginning that you should do all the romantic stuff, bring flowers, make surprises, celebrate St. V, etc because you are building your potential relationship, not after one year, when you have certainty...

 

After reading your posts, I understand that he may have not even considered our relationship that much and made other plans. My issue is the following: after the mails, during the phone conversation, he never said anything about going out or even tried to accommodate how I felt about that stupid celebration.

 

If your behavior is legitimate and you are in your right to organize your time however you please, why not tell it like it is?

 

I mean, in the end, if I am that much of a hassle (which I am) why can't he just continue to make his life as he pleases and leave me alone?

 

I took the weekend off and I have no idea about what I want to do.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect a daily report card with his whereabouts, but still... I don't like to worry about what the guy didn't tell me & stuff. I feel like I've lost confidence in him and this whole episode is a serious set back, for our relationship.

 

I feel he wanted to see me all the time - whenever he didn't have anything else better to do, and when he did, just dissapeared (because we never make solid plans as in "the next time we meet will be on Tuesday at 8".)

 

So yeah, now I got my walls back up and feeling uncomfortable to go back to the lovey dovey phase we were before... Not even sure if I feel like it. He sort if hinted he wanted to see me tonight.

 

What do you think?

[outsidethebox]

I'd say it's a full time job deciphering the unsaid communications between you two.