thank you, St.V, for making me join the single ladies, again

[outsidethebox]

can't wait for thr post-mortem

[Leigh 87]

hey, guys

 

a few words of honest and dear appreciation for taking your time to input, read and give me "the real deal" on this... event, really. I appreciate and am so thankful for the input of each and everyone of you, Fondue, TheZebra, Radu. LEIGH (!!!!), Almond Joy, outsidethebox, Iamajerk17, clia, Treasa, Emilia, Archgirl, MidwestUSA, RachR, Janesays, ja123, SJC2008 (!!!), crude, pbjbear, runningfar, Bristolius, Keenly, CaptObvious,ltjg45, TouchedbyViolet,ChessPieceFace, amaysngrace, StanMusial, Chs, in no particular order (hope I didnt forget anyone).

 

Thank you, ya all, an update will follow shortly!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your welcome:)

 

You know, a good thing about you is: you have certain things you need from a man, and you will not settle for less.

Better you eliminate men within the first two months, then say, drawing it out for years, in the hope that you will somehow compromise this core value, and be happy.

 

Some women really do need st V day to be ackowledged. You will probably not get past this, because you may never feel that this guy is truly into you no matter what.

The irony is: he MAY very well be into you. It is just this one action he did, regarding st V day, that was a deal breaker for you. And that is fine:)

 

Please do - keep going after what you need from men, just be carefull your standards arent ridiculously high!

 

Sure, it was over reacting to some people on here, but WHO CARES.

Their opinions DO NOT apply to you, because, you know: some women DO need men who at least make a date for them on st V day......

[candie13]

ok, so here is the follow up:

 

he called me when getting home - around 6:15. We talked for one hour and a half, him showing me how I was blowing this day out of proportion, me, showing him how I felt that I had no recognition, as in - that I meant something to him (since he never says anyhing). His obvious answer: "but I wanted to be with you all the time"; my obvious answer: "except for V Day".

 

He did say it didn't mean much to him and he didn't consider it. He never once acknowledged that he felt pressured b V Day, he only said it was a "misunderstanding" over the text messages. He never acknowledged that it may have meant something for me and by simply dismissing it, he may have hurt me. However, he (and I) was in agreement with everything else - great time, lots of appreciation for all things we did and time we spent together.

 

And he ended the conversation with "so will you call me when you get back home". So I finally admitted that yes, StV was important to me. It was important, because it sort of showed me that I meant something to him ( I did say that I was afraid that I was nothing but a FWB or a playmate. he said I was crazy, and he was a bit shocked when, at some time, I had asked if "we were dating". so from his pov, I am his gf). A lot of BS, if you ask me, too, he didn't admit anything about "the pressure of St.V", nothing.

 

So after the almost 2h conversation, I text him and I tell him: "listen, I know this is stupid for you, it means nothing to you, but it is important to me and I want to see you tonight".

 

Well.... it turns out he cannot (!!!). He had told a friend of him (who lives outside the town and drives here to go out) to meet him tonight. On St.V Day !!!! I tell him that ok, I shall join both of them, He says it's not feasible, since his friend did not have a date. At this point, I tell Daniel: "hey, whatever, it's StV, feel free to spend it with whomever is most important to you" and I close the phone one him.

 

I was soooo mad! So mad! So I text him "it's with another woman ). Enjoy your evening", he responds "yes, only she's got 2 balls". At this point I am boiling (Radu can explain all the process), I m thinking to myself "ok, two can play this game". I text him back "what a coincidence, just like my date. haha" He text something like "enjoy your evening".

 

Anyway, around 10:30, he texts me to say his "date" was over. I am not answering. Around 11 he asks me how ma "date" is going. I am not answering. Around 11;30 he says "I assume you are asleep, bonne nuit". No answer from me.

 

It is my firm intention not to call, text or email him until Monday, maybe even Tuesday evening. Because he knew this was important, I told him, I was crying over the phone, and still he went ahead with his initial plans. Not telling me: "Let me ditch him". Not telling me "let me get out of it easy". Nope.

 

Anyway, if he text, I won't answer. Is he calls... should I answer? We have our dance class together on Tuesday, but I think I'll just piss him off terribly if I don't do anything until then.

 

what do you think?

[candie13]

oh, and to make it even better on his side, the guy is clueless that we've been dating for 6 weeks. in his mind, we're dating since 3 weeks ! he must be convinced I am batsh*t crazy :D ! and he still called and tried to reason with me... while making sure he avoided a date for today! I mean ok, I got it, you're smooth, but just how stupid you think I am ?

 

I think he's only being silly with St.V. A bit scared. Preferred to be with his mate than with me... The only reasons I am not extremely extremely upset with him are 4:

- he has very few friends, so I totally understand his need for some "guy time" with his friend

- it is extremely very difficult to pick up girls in bars, in general, in this city

- I am very cute and while I really really find him sexy and dig him like crazy, he's not looking like "ladies' man"... hard for him to do better.

- the bars - all bars - were full with men for St.V. I mean cracking!!!! realyl bad luck for him

[Leigh 87]

HMMM and I see where dreamingwithtigers ando ther posters are coming from!

 

However, after 6 weeks, it is really not that big of a deal to get you a box of chocolates, or buy you a card...

 

He put the pressure on himself!

 

It didn't have to be a big deal...

[Fondue]

Hey Candie13, I respect you as a poster because you're incredibly honest with yourself.

 

But come on, man! You guys have been dating for less than two months! How can you expect him to ditch his friends already? That seems a little demanding, no?

 

Wouldn't you be upset if your man expected you to ditch your gal-pals THE DAY OF to spend time with him?

[candie13]

Your welcome:)

 

You know, a good thing about you is: you have certain things you need from a man, and you will not settle for less.

Better you eliminate men within the first two months, then say, drawing it out for years, in the hope that you will somehow compromise this core value, and be happy.

 

Some women really do need st V day to be ackowledged. You will probably not get past this, because you may never feel that this guy is truly into you no matter what.

The irony is: he MAY very well be into you. It is just this one action he did, regarding st V day, that was a deal breaker for you. And that is fine:)

 

Please do - keep going after what you need from men, just be carefull your standards arent ridiculously high!

 

Sure, it was over reacting to some people on here, but WHO CARES.

Their opinions DO NOT apply to you, because, you know: some women DO need men who at least make a date for them on st V day......

 

Leigh, I was sooo unreasonable!!! Really... out there! But I think I was scared. And your words of encouragement meant so much to me. Your tales of your bf and you, what moved you, what you liked, how things were - like really were, no flowery details... It means a lot, because I am really really scared to believe and.. to be happy, for I have something good.

 

So many people here said "lucky guy, he dodged a bullet" and I am sure they are right. Yet, he chose to call me and to reason with me. Ok, he may have not told all the truth about him being scared... but do we ever? are we ever trully, 100% telling the truth? I'm willing to take 80%, this time.

 

Cannot wait to go on my weekend and to come back . Sorry, outofthebox, not quite the pm you (or I, for that matter) were expecting...

[ltjg45]

No offense to you, candie13, but this is what I meant when I said that a person's standards being too high can keep someone single just as long as not having any standards at all.

 

I do hope that your decision to try and fix this does pay off nicely for you.

[candie13]

Hey Candie13, I respect you as a poster because you're incredibly honest with yourself.

 

But come on, man! You guys have been dating for less than two months! How can you expect him to ditch his friends already? That seems a little demanding, no?

 

Wouldn't you be upset if your man expected you to ditch your gal-pals THE DAY OF to spend time with him?

 

Fondue, my gfs and me have a very special relationship with each other, as in, we never (EVER) let each other down. We cover our backs. Keep out dates. Stick up for each other. Occasionally give each other hell, if one feels it's the case. So, assuming I have a date with my gfs, if my bf says it's really important for him to be with him, even now, I would bail out on my gfs. It is something so unlike me, that they wouldn't even ask why, they would just say "go". Again, I am blessed with some really really good, nice, amazing friends. He is not that lucky, so I cannot ask him to do the same.

 

So... I don't know... he's done his choice. He will live with the consequences. I think he is a good friend to this other guy.

 

I will learn to be less available. I will make sure he works a lot harder so that he appreciates more the time with me. I forgot I actually had half the power of this relationship. I got really really scared. I was paralyzed with fear because of the St.V thing.

 

And I shall not hide this from you, the fact that I got three different fall back plans helped me my self esteem a LOT. And gave me the cool I needed not to go batsh*t crazy all over again!

[Leigh 87]

If the rest of his actions show that he is into you, then do you think you can learn to look past st V day?

 

....In a relationship, it is important to find out early the important things that you need.

 

It sounds like you need your boyfriends to do some nice things for you, to show you they care...

 

My friend is very in love with her boyfriend - they are very serious and they REALLY love each other.....

However: he did not believe in getting her necklaces, or bracelet or flowers.... He thought it is cheap to buy love....

So, she told him that she likes little signs sometimes, just to show he cares. That she is a girl, and a lot of girls like these things, even though it is his every day actions that she is most concerned about!

 

See, not ALL men who really like or love a girl, necessarily like giving them too many presents or romantic things!

 

.......... You DO need to talk about this in a simple way, if you wish to continue.

 

 

...It is simply, just say something like " I like you, and I would like you to show me you care sometimes. Not every time, but on days like ST V, I would vry much like for you to do sometihng nice for me.. Just to arrange a date for me is enough, no need for fancy presents"

 

 

.....You have to be clear that you like to be shown that he cares about you, through small acts of kindess!

[candie13]

No offense to you, candie13, but this is what I meant when I said that a person's standards being too high can keep someone single just as long as not having any standards at all.

 

I do hope that your decision to try and fix this does pay off nicely for you.

 

ltg45, I understand what you mean. My best friend, Grazia, keeps telling me the same thing. But remember one thing: I am not doing it because I am stuck up or stupid or crazy. I actually believe in what I am asking. And I am not afraid of being alone, unless my standards are met. I am truly NOT scared of ending up as an old crazy spinster with 4/5 cats and a couple of dogs.

 

I am not out of the woods yet. While I completely agree that my reaction was totally exagerated, my reaction was coming from something real, which is his how he acted towards St.V. He claims he was not afraid of anything, all cool, all under control. And he also tried to avoid telling me about his date with his friend, when I had told him just how important it was for me this day. For him, it was not, so he just went ahead with his plans.

 

Fine, 2 can play this game... he will always lose at it, unfortunately. funny thing is, to him, it is not important to win, but it is important to do his thing. No matter what or how much it costs him. A bit wreck-less, if you ask me.

[candie13]

If the rest of his actions show that he is into you, then do you think you can learn to look past st V day?

 

....In a relationship, it is important to find out early the important things that you need.

 

It sounds like you need your boyfriends to do some nice things for you, to show you they care...

 

.......... You DO need to talk about this in a simple way, if you wish to continue.

 

.....You have to be clear that you like to be shown that he cares about you, through small acts of kindess!

 

Honestly, I thought this was over, when I closed the phone off in his face. I was sooo mad. But then I thought "don't get mad, get even". I was wrong, of course.

 

What I needed, was to feel or hear from him that I meant something emotionally. I got that, during that one hour and a half. After that, when he still wouldn't see me for St.V, I was still freaking out, but I knew he cared. So I went out, I saw people, had a good time, had all the reassurance that I needed.

 

He is a tough cookie to break. Because he understands what I need, what I mean, but he is not doing it. To his benefit, I am saying "he did not do it this time". But I just don't know how really selfless he is, really. In bed, he is extremely generous. He couldn't care less about him and his own pleasure, it's all about pleasing his partner. but in a way, that isn't taking anything away from him.

 

what I am asking, might. I need to keep my eyes open and not let myself get comfortable.

 

I will give him NC until Monday Tuesday, this way, he'll remember St.V twice. He's already regretting it, I am sure... but he needs to live through this to understand. And to remember. So far, since we started to go out, we've been in contact daily. So far...

[dreamingoftigers]

I just read your follow-up.

 

You are super-reactive.

 

Instead of setting your line "here" and making known what you need to, and acting accordingly:

 

You,

 

1. Insult the guy, repeatedly

2. Pull on his emotions to try to guilt or rage him into what you want him to do

3. Shame him when that doesn't work

4. Threaten to end the relationship

5. Ignore him and his feelings

6. Try to override all of his pre-made plans

7. Suggest he's cheating on you

 

All of the above is waaaaaay out of line and abusive or bordering on.

 

His boundaries might not be great considering he still tried to negotiate and call despite you telling him that you are done.

 

My suggestion: slow down. Think before you text. And not of the deepest slam you can make, but try to logically, slowly lower yourself into the shoes on the receiving end of this treatment in a non-judgmental, non-self-righteous way.

 

Often we believe that the other party must not care about us or that we expect them to do "so much more" because we feel so much about them, or that they should be grateful they have us.

 

Your behaviour isn't acceptable no matter your motivations, and it will kill or degrade every relationship you can have until you deal with it.

 

This isn't a thread about how this guy fuc*Ed up. It's a thread about how you are dealing with it.

 

D-

[candie13]

HMMM and I see where dreamingwithtigers ando ther posters are coming from!

 

However, after 6 weeks, it is really not that big of a deal to get you a box of chocolates, or buy you a card...

 

He put the pressure on himself!

 

It didn't have to be a big deal...

 

That is absolutely it. To him St.V. meant nothing, so the hell with it. Regardless if it meant anything to me. And no matter how many times I was explaining that to him - it's not about the box of chocolate, it's about something that means something to ME, nothing. Zero. No echo. HE just dismissed it.

 

"What I do not know does not exist to me". That scares me a little.

 

Unless he does not say the truth, and he actually is scared or at least uncomfortable with St.V. I am sure that it true, otherwise he would have talked about it - he always complains about things he finds stupid or not agree with / approve of. It's ok, I gave him hell with St.V from here to Heaven and back... but I will remember this and watch his game.

[candie13]

I just read your follow-up.

 

You are super-reactive.

 

Your behaviour isn't acceptable no matter your motivations, and it will kill or degrade every relationship you can have until you deal with it.

 

This isn't a thread about how this guy fuc*Ed up. It's a thread about how you are dealing with it.

 

D-

 

I totally agree. And if I could have sinked my teeth deeper into his flesh, until the bone, I would have. That is the ugly truth about me.

 

I am not saying this to excuse myself, but I will tell you about last summer. Last summer I fell inlove like ... one of those few times when you fall inlove and you remember for the rest of your life. Just like now, for the first few weeks, we built the relationship naturally, seeing eachother, spending time, the usual. And then holidays came and the sh*t hit the fan. The guy totally and completely withdrew. Imagine that you think you are in a loving relationship and the other person doesn't acknowledge anything - as if you were ... acquaintances. I was shocked, because I did not know if I had read the signs wrong, if I had imagined things... or just how wrong he was acting (mind you, women tend to think most things are their fault, IInd WW included).

 

So this time, when the St.V came along, I freaked out not because of him, but because I was wondering if, once again, everything was not in my own head and the guy just ****ed off to another planet / woman / side of the town. That's why I cut him off completely, because someone in my past cut me off completely and this time, I wanted to be the first one. I just can't bare to... well, you know what I mean.

 

I'd much rather chew my own leg off myself then even tempt the chance of getting close to a trap, if you know what I mean. a bit lousy, I know

[candie13]

I think you suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder.

 

Your reactions to what he did, at the 3-6 week stage of dating are off the chain. Im surprised hes not running for the hills at this point.

 

you and I, both, MJ ! Part of me sort of wished he did, 'cause now I need to stay here and face this b*tch!

 

No, it's not BP, no worries. He was half French, half Swiss, dark hair and deep brown eyes and the most beautiful, soft lips a woman can ever imagine could kiss. If you truly, with all your heart and soul, really hate someone, but I mean really really hate, I can give you his contact. He will just about ruin the poor woman! Satisfaction guaranteed in less than one month. Permanent damages included, from panic attacks to anorexia, sleeping disorders, eating disorders... yeah, you name it !

[dreamingoftigers]

Two things really stood out in your posts.

 

Which feel really familiar to my youthful self (sadly). I went through a lot of self-imposed He'll when I was younger because I really couldn't see how I was actually hurting other people in my relationships, and myself. I knew it on an intellectual level. I often felt that every slight was like an injury and that they deserved whatever they caused me to feel.

 

However, it turned out that my emotional regulation was off and that my reactions and feelings were out-of-proportion to the situation.

 

It's not "all in your head" BUT there's something glitching in your head (no insult whatsoever intended on this post, although I haven't been my kindest on the other ones). (we ALL have glitches in either our history, neuro function or both). But those glitches you have listed really stick out to me and have since the OP:

 

1. Abandonment trigger

2. Fear of being trapped/manipulated

3. Raging/guilting

4. Behaviours lethal to a fledgling relationship

5. Major emotional reactions to a perceived slight

 

I don't want to alarm you, but I think you might want to look into some anger management and actually go to an independent counselor to get a mental health screening.

 

This of course isn't about "my personal history" but I just hear a lot of things resonate with that stormy period in my life and I would gate to think someone could be putting themselves through unnecessary isolation and turbulence due to glitches that may not entirely be their fault or under their control without some help.

 

You have a really boisterous personality (I can't believe that just autocorrected to "housewife" LOL ) it comes through on your posts really clearly and you do have a decent sense of emotional awareness. You are also quite articulate. If you do have an emotional dysregulation, it could really dampen some of those qualities over time. It's worth checking into one way or the other.

 

Do you mind posting how old you are?

 

I totally agree. And if I could have sinked my teeth deeper into his flesh, until the bone, I would have. That is the ugly truth about me.

 

I am not saying this to excuse myself, but I will tell you about last summer. Last summer I fell inlove like ... one of those few times when you fall inlove and you remember for the rest of your life. Just like now, for the first few weeks, we built the relationship naturally, seeing eachother, spending time, the usual. And then holidays came and the sh*t hit the fan. The guy totally and completely withdrew. Imagine that you think you are in a loving relationship and the other person doesn't acknowledge anything - as if you were ... acquaintances. I was shocked, because I did not know if I had read the signs wrong, if I had imagined things... or just how wrong he was acting (mind you, women tend to think most things are their fault, IInd WW included).

 

So this time, when the St.V came along, I freaked out not because of him, but because I was wondering if, once again, everything was not in my own head and the guy just ****ed off to another planet / woman / side of the town. That's why I cut him off completely, because someone in my past cut me off completely and this time, I wanted to be the first one. I just can't bare to... well, you know what I mean.

 

I'd much rather chew my own leg off myself then even tempt the chance of getting close to a trap, if you know what I mean. a bit lousy, I know

[candie13]

thanks a lot for your post, very insightful. I'm 32. I'll take some ideas out and send you a PM with some questions / comments, some things are a bit deep and not sure I get them.

 

again, I appreciate your taking the time to help out!

[outsidethebox]

I can't believe how non-caring this guy is. While I agree with everything dreaming said to you, to not be available because he was going out with some guy because V Day doesn't mean anything to him and not caring a bit about what you told him is unbelievable, even for cads. How can a guy go from thus stuff you described like out of a movie to major league cad in one day? It's more than what he thinks about the day, it's a complete rejection of your feelings. It's unacceptable. And you told him that. There's no way to sugarcoat it.

 

I would tell him just to keep going out with his guy friend next time he bothers you. And you shouldn't have been so little assured of his feelings all along that you can't tell if you're just a FWB or worse. Find someone who has feelings and communicates them to you. And of course feelings you like and share.

 

Why can't I get laid for six weeks before she tells me I'm a cad? Some guys have all the luck.

[Janesays]

Candie...you are your own worst enemy.

 

I'm going to ask you a personal question and if you dont want to answer, I understand.

 

But were you ever abused as child?

[dreamingoftigers]

Your welcome.

 

Honestly, you could have written my journal pre-evaluation.

 

It's Hell to go through the ups and downs for that long etc.

 

I'm 30 now and the last four years (etc.) have been much better despite circumstances actually being more stressful.

[Rita86]

I can't believe how non-caring this guy is. While I agree with everything dreaming said to you, to not be available because he was going out with some guy because V Day doesn't mean anything to him and not caring a bit about what you told him is unbelievable, even for cads. How can a guy go from thus stuff you described like out of a movie to major league cad in one day? It's more than what he thinks about the day, it's a complete rejection of your feelings. It's unacceptable. And you told him that. There's no way to sugarcoat it.

 

I would tell him just to keep going out with his guy friend next time he bothers you. And you shouldn't have been so little assured of his feelings all along that you can't tell if you're just a FWB or worse. Find someone who has feelings and communicates them to you. And of course feelings you like and share.

 

Why can't I get laid for six weeks before she tells me I'm a cad? Some guys have all the luck.

 

So he's expected to cancel his meeting with a friend when she herself has stated she would not cancel hanging out with her friends because of him?

 

Holy double standards

[candie13]

No, I said I would have canceled if he had asked.

[Els]

I didn't read through the entirety of these 9 pages, so correct me if I'm wrong - he ditched you on VDay, then later told you it was because he was scared, and you're both planning to work on it?

 

I'm glad you agree your reaction was way out there. It sounded totally crazy, girl. Don't do that again. There are ways to express yourself without flying off the handle.

 

Now, about this guy, I'm having mixed feelings. Some of his actions do hint at a lack of interest. Being scared of the pressure and feeling it's too commercial isn't an excuse - if he feels it's commercial, he can see you without actually buying anything. Not seeing you at all is just way out there.

 

If the issue was that you told him you're on your period, that makes him doubly douchey. If a guy isn't interested in seeing a girl during times when sex isn't on the menu, he's more interested in sex than her, period (no pun intended). Plenty of us celebrate VDay with our lovers while we're on our periods.

 

Then again, he did put up with your outburst to the point of contacting you to reason with you. So it could genuinely be a mistake.

[candie13]

ro resume:

- he makes plans with his friend for StV without telling me

- he tells me he is unavailable yesterday (not even acknowledging it is StV)

- I have a fit and dump him via mail

- yesterday he calls me and calms me down, talks to me for 2h, saying that to him it meant nothing, not acknowledging he said via text he felt STV was too much pressure (at that point, he just wanted out of it, because he had other plans)

- I tell him over the phone that to me it does mean a big deal, a sort of a celebration of us

- he tells me "ok, so I will see you when you get back from you weekend" and we end out phone conversation

- I then text him saying that it still is a big deal and I want to see him and talk to him

- only when I corner him, he admits he had plans with his friend

- when I ask him if I can join, he said "no, because my friend won't have a date"

- at this point, I say that he should have a StV with whom is important to him and close the phone on him

- I text him, hinting that he is with another girl; he responds; I text him hinting that I am with a guy; he doesn't find it funny

- he texts a few hours later - around 10:30, telling me his "date" was over - he wanted to see me; I don't respond

- he texts again, asking how my "date" went; I don't respond

- he texts an hour later saying "are you asleep? have a good night then"; I don't respond

- this morning he calls, to see how mad I was (I had deleted his number, so I didn't know who was calling, this morning, this is why I have answered);

- during the phone conv, he says he wants to make dinner for me next week, if so I wish; he said he understands if I need time to think about it

- I am not saying yes or no to his proposition

 

what do you think about that?