Gender Differences in Dating Difficulties

[Shardish]

My difficulties in dating are difficulties of my own creation. I am fairly shy, I am quite reserved, I'm nearing my mid-twenties and I'm a virgin with intimacy issues, and until I resolve these issues I will suffer as a result.

 

I'd imagine there are women with the same issues that I have.

[fortyninethousand322]

I think some women struggle with some stuff, it's just their struggles are different. Mostly along the lines of "he won't commit to me", "should I ask him out", "I keep dating frogs, I won't my prince", etc. Most of the struggling guys are the "I can't get a date if I was the last guy on earth" variety.

 

Women rarely, if ever, fall into the latter of the two.

[ltjg45]

That's funny you say that. Because thats the attitude women have. They think the man should do all the work, put in all the effort, jump through hoops to get her, relentlessly pursue her and etc.

 

I will pursue a female but I'm not chasing her across town to get her. If, after a week, I got no process, she will be forgotten and I will move on.

 

Simple and to the point.

 

Most females has too high of expectations anyway esp. when referring to career-focused ones.

 

Getting a job that makes 70k a year? In this economy where women is far more capable of getting hired than men due to the higher focus on looks?

 

Yeah.....keep dreaming. I'll be lucky if I can make 50k a year once my education is over.

[StanMusial]

There are guys on here that struggle to get any sort of interest from any female.

 

Most women get some sort of interest from guys... maybe not the guys they want but at least they have a chance to date.

[sweetkiwi]

I get a lot of sexual interest. But not much "I want to be your boyfriend" interest.

 

Everyone has different struggles. It's up to us to overcome them or not.

[Woggle]

The problem is both genders think the other one has it easy when it reality they don't know the half.

[PhoenixRysing]

This is an interesting question but in my observation the answers posted about men struggling more and why are off the mark a bit. As one of the women here who has posted of dating struggles I see it a bit differently. Most of the women who post here about the problems with getting dates (like myself) post one topic on the issue and later post topics on other issues (the man who won't commit, figuring out if a guy is interested, whether we should expand our horizons on responses to OLD inquiries like "How are you?". We seem to have a lot in common, men don't approach (ever), we are not getting the volumes of replies that we read that we should online, and when we finally do get a date, the men are hopelessly unavailable for undetermined reasons (we are great but...).

 

My perspective is that we post once about the initial struggle to get dates or quality prospects...are introspective about what we can do differently, take the advice as best we can, and come back when we are ready to post about something different. Conversely, there are a few men here who seem to revel in posting damn near the same post repeatedly, not changing anything, then complaining that they don't have dates. This makes it look like there are more men struggling.

 

From what I can tell, there are only a few posters making the majority of the "I never get a date" posts from the male perspective.

 

If you remove those outliers, it appears we all are struggling equally. Men are unclear when they can approach and thus don't. Women are given vastly mixed messages about approaching first and thus don't. As a result, we are all sitting here posting on loveshack instead of out dating. It's sad really.

 

I have had 3 years of tough luck since my separation and then divorce. It sucks and I have on various occasions felt like giving up altogether. Especially since IRL people continue to tell me that I am amazing, gorgeous, intelligent, kind, sexy, awesome - and yet, here I am - 35 years old and still having to ask men out or sit at home alone. So despite my issues, I am working right now to determine if the man I am interested in is single - if he is, I will yet again make the first move. Mixed messages or not - I want a lover. Rejection or not, I desire a relationship.

 

So I keep coming here, I keep learning, I keep working on myself, and I keep hope alive. Is it a struggle? Hell yes. Do I feel like giving up, hell yes. But do I? Hell no. On the other side of one of those feared and dreaded rejections is the man I am going to fall in love with. He's worth it.

Edited February 14, 2013 by PhoenixRysing

[TheBigQuestion]

Ain't THAT the truth. I've never seen so many angry, bitter, dateless men in my life than I've seen here on this forum.

 

Maybe one day they'll learn how to be gentlemen instead of whining, demanding, bitter, angry little trolls who think the friggen world is going to end if they treat a woman to a lousy cup of coffee or a freakin burger and she doesn't put out for them right then and there. They think women should do all the heavy lifting while they sit back and 'gift' her with the splendor that is them.

 

How's that been working for ya, guys?

 

Most of the men who have little to no experience dating and/or are greatly embittered by their relations with women were the ones who believed that being super nice, buying stuff for women, planning and paying for dates, listening to their problems, etc., was what actually "works" and gets women to like them romantically. All of it is inaccurate nonsense.Being a "gentleman" means nothing if the je ne sais qois sense of "chemistry" isn't there. If a woman is sufficiently attracted to you, whether you pay or where you take her doesn't matter. I'm living proof, and so are many others. Wagging your finger at men who believe that women should pay for their equal share on dates and need to gentlemen who treat them "romantically" is simply doing them a disservice.

[somedude81]

Conversely, there are a few men here who seem to revel in posting damn near the same post repeatedly, not changing anything, then complaining that they don't have dates. This makes it look like there are more men struggling.

 

From what I can tell, there are only a few posters making the majority of the "I never get a date" posts from the male perspective.

 

If you remove those outliers, it appears we all are struggling equally.

Actually if you were to pay attention. There are roughly two new guys a week who post about how they never had a GF or something similar.

 

Conversely there seems to be one new female poster a month if that many at all, and her problems usually are due to her living in a very small town (no men to date) or she is completely passive and wonders why nobody is asking her out.

[Lonely Ronin]

Actually if you were to pay attention. There are roughly two new guys a week who post about how they never had a GF or something similar.

 

It's one or two guys with multiple usernames......

[pbjbear]

I have no issues getting dates. I actually am taking a break from dating because going through so many guys was burning me out. Very few guys I dated were interested in a relationship with me (cue the "well its YOU" comments I will get from saying that...) and no, they werent all the same type of guy they had all different personalities. Im 25 and most guys around my age still see women primarily as sexual interests, some present themselves differently.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Women are stronger and more stoic

[PhoenixRysing]

Actually if you were to pay attention. There are roughly two new guys a week who post about how they never had a GF or something similar.

 

Conversely there seems to be one new female poster a month if that many at all, and her problems usually are due to her living in a very small town (no men to date) or she is completely passive and wonders why nobody is asking her out.

 

I will concede that perhaps we both "see" more of that to which we relate. I also think there is some soundness to the theory that women often have sounding boards for their issues IRL (women seem to more readily talk about this with their girlfriends) and men may need an outlet for their vulnerabilities more than we do.

 

Still I see a lot of the same issues with dating across the sexes and when you read all the posts in a thread, regardless of who initially started it, the male/female struggles seem pretty equivalent to me.

 

For the most part we are all here for the same reason, we are truly struggling to understand and make a real connection with the opposite sex. No matter where the struggle starts (first date, multiple dates, sex or no sex, games or no games, when to have the "talk", and what it feels like when it's over) all of us - male and female alike - share one thing in common - struggle and confusion. That's why we are here.

 

I would venture to guess that if you lined us all up in a room, levied our assumptions about each other (leagues, rating scales, sexual orientation, gender, high-maintenance/low maintenance, etc) we'd be wrong about each other most of the time. Therein lies the quandary. We all want a connection - it's only human - and we all screw up trying to make one...and we all hurt during the process. My largely uneducated guess is that it is our assumptions, hurt, and game playing that is getting in the way of what we really want.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I can say, that there is at least one woman struggling and still trying. I look her in the mirror every day.

[Eggplant]

Possible explanations:

 

A) There are men of all ages competing for women of only a certain age range. Hence there are more males in the competition for a longer time but with less probability of success. Fewer females at any given time but with a higher probability of success. Plus older women and younger men are less likely to pair up, so the single men are on average younger than the single women.

 

B) Some women, when they can't get their own man, try to double up. I have no idea how common that is. See the Other Person section.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Sorry, but some of the most resilient, fun-loving people I know...my favorite people to hang around, in fact...are salespeople selling complex, high-end goods where it's almost all rejection. They are cheerful and optimistic. They see the world as full of opportunity. A peer of mine on the sales side was given a near impossible target. Rather than whine and complain, he broke it down, figured out how he might make a go of things, and by the time he was through with his plan, had moved me from pitying his plight to being convinced that he'd gotten off easy. He hadn't. He's resilient. He's incredibly positive. He loves people and reads them like a book. That's why he's so good and incredibly successful.

 

You know why we get paid the big bucks as professional sales people? Because not everyone can do it. I take constant rejection and insane sales goal in stride, because I have the personality and skillset to handle that. I'm saying not everyone is designed to handle that... and the ones that are not become bitter and frustrated.

 

This whole idea that guys are bitter and this prevents them from getting dates is complete stupidity. Do you also expect the special olympics athlestes.

 

Women deal with more rejection after sex.

It is no less painful.

 

Another silly point. Make the guy wait 2 or 3 months for sex and your rejection rate goes down to Zero. So this is entirely within your personal control.

 

Your in the club dancing and bitching that the guys don't dance with you long enough. How about the poor schmucks that can't get into the club?

 

They don't post on boards like this. Part of the reason is any girl who dares to speak of struggling problems is immediately attacked with the usual claims how she won't give the nice socially inept doormat guy a chance. Or she'll speak of how she did give one or a few of those guys a chance, but will be chastised for not sticking to it or daring to proclaim she didn't feel any chemistry.

The struggling women will post on female-centric boards and places. Granted many of them get no better than here, only they are loaded with the masses who proclaim the woman is perfect and it's men who are the problem or men need to grow up.

PLUS...a lot of women simply keep their troubles offline. Unlike men, women nowadays are more pushed to be "perfect" as opposed to just successful. Suddenly it's not enough to have an education and career. Now she also has to have an amazing body, nice rack, beautiful face/hair, be amazing in bed, and is able to bear healthy children AND mommy them while working.

Plus I'll even add how women are also pushed to be happy alone. The usual "men are children and women can rule the world without them" talk. So now many women are afraid to complain simply because some femnazi will ridicule her for not wanting to treat men as sex and free dinners.

I'll see women complain like men here do offline, over drinks, or in the girl circles over ice cream and/or wine. You just won't find them here or on any of the other male-centric dating forums.

 

I think you have some really solid points.

1. Women are pressured to accept 'nice' guys... although this pressure isn't just external. It also comes from experience with not so nice guys.

2. I'm guessing that female centric boards will be more welcoming to women who struggle with these issues as they may lean towards antagonistic attitudes regarding men.

 

I don't think women have any more pressure in society than men, in fact I think women have much LESS pressure. The only thing society asks of a woman is that she be pretty. Most other flaws seem forgivable.

 

However, I do agree that women place an enormous amount of pressure on themselves to achieve unrealistic benchmarks of success. I think you are correct that feminists have become a double edged sword to most women.

 

I'm thinking it may also be possible that women internalize a lack of male attention, and blame themselves more often... while men become angry.

[Archgirl]

Plenty of women struggle - we just struggle with different things. I don't think actually getting dates are a problem for most of the women on here, it's more finding the keepers who don't treat you like **** and who actually want to date a real woman with a personality as opposed to some sort of idealised notion. Thats kind of what most of the female posts revolve around.

[Cutiepie1976]

Actually if you were to pay attention. There are roughly two new guys a week who post about how they never had a GF or something similar.

 

Conversely there seems to be one new female poster a month if that many at all, and her problems usually are due to her living in a very small town (no men to date) or she is completely passive and wonders why nobody is asking her out.

 

Might in part be a bias in the threads we each choose to read.

 

I have advised at least half a dozen female posters in the last week or so on getting to a date. Each has listened, asked thoughtful follow-up questions of posters as she figured out how to change, and then gone off to do just that.

 

Some guys, on the other hand ask for help, then become argumentative, stubborn, and insistent that what they do is right--ironic since they came posting for help ostensibly about the very behavior they defend so vigorously. Just when you think they have moved on, they come back to argue, once again, why their failed behavior and misconceptions are right, and it's the same woman they are still talking about and seeking advice on, even weeks and months later, For this subgroup, they refuse to learn or change, yet are bewildered and frustrated that nothing changes and they continue to fail.

[Cutiepie1976]

You know why we get paid the big bucks as professional sales people? Because not everyone can do it. I take constant rejection and insane sales goal in stride, because I have the personality and skillset to handle that. I'm saying not everyone is designed to handle that... and the ones that are not become bitter and frustrated.

 

This whole idea that guys are bitter and this prevents them from getting dates is complete stupidity. Do you also expect the special olympics athlestes.

Agree that not everyone has the personality to thrive in sales. There are other employment niches, however. The same is true in dating and life. Most guys and women adjust and play to their strengths. Some refuse. We see those results here.

 

There are in fact Special Olympic athletes BTW, an example of finding your own niche. They persevere and succeed despite significant disability, rather than whinging and blaming the world and life for being unfair. It's a choice. Some choices are associated with achievement and success. Playing the victim rarely, if ever, gets you to your goal.

 

 

Your in the club dancing and bitching that the guys don't dance with you long enough. How about the poor schmucks that can't get into the club?

Yet they refuse to follow the dress code that is needed to get into that particular lounge or to try the one down the street that doesn't have a velvet rope and a line snaking around the block.

 

If you read some of their threads, these are sometimes the pickiest, most finicky, unrealistic guys when it comes to women they deem acceptable to date. The club down the street isn't exclusive enough for them...never mind that it has better music, decent drinks, and a more reasonable cover charge. They'd rather beg and plead with the bouncer when their case is hopeless then turn bitter and negative that others are let in, and they aren't, instead of have a great experience without the hassle down the street.

 

Again, a choice.

 

 

I'm thinking it may also be possible that women internalize a lack of male attention, and blame themselves more often... while men become angry.

Some truth to this.

 

Both genders struggle and face challenges in dating. I don't think it can be argued that one has it any easier than the other.

 

Great thread BTW!

[Archgirl]

The problem for women is that most in the western world have lost their femininity. Get that back and you'll have guys lining up wanting to settle down with you.

 

Pffft! even you don't really think that! Stop trying to bait people coz you're bored

[grkBoy]

I don't think women have any more pressure in society than men, in fact I think women have much LESS pressure. The only thing society asks of a woman is that she be pretty. Most other flaws seem forgivable.

 

However, I do agree that women place an enormous amount of pressure on themselves to achieve unrealistic benchmarks of success. I think you are correct that feminists have become a double edged sword to most women.

 

Well, if you look at things from a purely male standpoint, then most men only seem to care if she's good looking and has a nice personality. The ones who set the bar higher in terms of if she's educated and has a career are the more "alpha" of the males and/or those who were raised to ask for more.

 

I won't ever consider myself "alpha" (even by my own dating definitions of "alpha"), but I remember my father raising me to look down on the uneducated woman with no career who is simply seeking a man to take care of her. I say this mainly to show it's not just the well-to-do males setting these standards on women.

 

In the past, men simply went to the more "wholesome" social gatherings and met a nice girl who looked pretty and could cook/clean/raise children. Now with the changing gender differences, many men demand more.

 

I also agree men get many similar pressures now. Now we men have to be a certain height, build, skin color, have hair, education, career, and a certain financial standing. Plus we have to have the "sweet spot" in sexual experience where we're not "man-whores" but also not "30 year old virgins".

 

 

I'm thinking it may also be possible that women internalize a lack of male attention, and blame themselves more often... while men become angry.

 

I've seen that. Many insecure women who are used to being lavished with male attention will freak out when a man isn't drooling over her.

[Emilia]

Another silly point. Make the guy wait 2 or 3 months for sex and your rejection rate goes down to Zero. So this is entirely within your personal control.

 

Your in the club dancing and bitching that the guys don't dance with you long enough. How about the poor schmucks that can't get into the club?

 

Another silly post by you. I notice you are doing the same, dissing female's points of view but seeing the positive from the men?

 

It is disingenious of you to suggest that the option for women not to get dumped after sex is just to wait long enough. There are a lot of men out there who will stick around long enough and make a game out of it while having sex with other women during the wait. You KNOW this yet you are dismissing xxoo's point because she is a woman. That makes you a misogynist since you judge her contribution based on the fact that she is a woman. Or you are very stupid if you don't know that some men purposely lie to women just to get sex and they wait around too.

 

I think you have some really solid points.

1. Women are pressured to accept 'nice' guys... although this pressure isn't just external. It also comes from experience with not so nice guys.

2. I'm guessing that female centric boards will be more welcoming to women who struggle with these issues as they may lean towards antagonistic attitudes regarding men.

 

I don't think women have any more pressure in society than men, in fact I think women have much LESS pressure. The only thing society asks of a woman is that she be pretty. Most other flaws seem forgivable.

 

However, I do agree that women place an enormous amount of pressure on themselves to achieve unrealistic benchmarks of success. I think you are correct that feminists have become a double edged sword to most women.

 

I'm thinking it may also be possible that women internalize a lack of male attention, and blame themselves more often... while men become angry.

 

So favouring a male poster and have a dig at women all in a few sentences. Why not just declare that it's our fault and not bother starting threads like this at all? Since you are clearly not interested in the answer

 

By the way: ThaWholigan and Lonely Ronin explained how it works for both sexes very well. That is if your intention was to actually get some real answers. Rather than just to vent your bitter frustration of the opposite sex.

[TheBigQuestion]

 

It is disingenious of you to suggest that the option for women not to get dumped after sex is just to wait long enough. There are a lot of men out there who will stick around long enough and make a game out of it while having sex with other women during the wait. You KNOW this yet you are dismissing xxoo's point because she is a woman. That makes you a misogynist since you judge her contribution based on the fact that she is a woman. Or you are very stupid if you don't know that some men purposely lie to women just to get sex and they wait around too.

 

 

 

So favouring a male poster and have a dig at women all in a few sentences. Why not just declare that it's our fault and not bother starting threads like this at all? Since you are clearly not interested in the answer

 

 

It looks to me like he dismissed her point because it is in his opinion silly. Unless you've somehow developed the power to read minds, you have no basis for claiming that he dismissed her point "because she is a woman." I'm glad that disagreeing with a female point of view now constitutes misogyny though. Thanks for the memo.

[ascendotum]

It is disingenious of you to suggest that the option for women not to get dumped after sex is just to wait long enough. There are a lot of men out there who will stick around long enough and make a game out of it while having sex with other women during the wait. You KNOW this yet you are dismissing xxoo's point because she is a woman. That makes you a misogynist since you judge her contribution based on the fact that she is a woman. Or you are very stupid if you don't know that some men purposely lie to women just to get sex and they wait around too.

 

You really don't think it would make any difference in filtering out the pump & dump merchants by making the guy wait a while, while you date and get to know his character better?

You think most guys are juggling women and if the other woman he is dating commits to a sexual relationship before you, that, that wont be good enough for most men. That they are now in a relationship already but will keep it secret from any other prospects, so they cheat??

Do you think all your exes were banging other women while dating you before the big bf/gf talk?

 

Personally I reckon it would cut down on the heart ache if they put the hand brake on any 'need to have sex asap' guys. I know people here talk about guys waiting out 3 mths just so they can have that 1 **** and punch the air, but seriously the majority of guys are not going to through multi month courting effort just to score a root, for the sake of a root with a woman they have no real interest in. The ability to let your finger tips do the walking with online dating these days has made it a game for more guys than in the past (and I know a few but they tend to move on to the easiest prospects), but the majority of guys are no jugglers in my opinion, and they have less chance if the woman is savvy.

[Archgirl]

That's funny you say that. Because thats the attitude women have. They think the man should do all the work, put in all the effort, jump through hoops to get her, relentlessly pursue her and etc.

 

Yeah...but then again we have the boobs, I'd say its a fair exchange

[ltjg45]

This is probably the biggest downside of being male. We are judged on achievement rather than intrinsic qualities.

 

It makes it very risky to be a man. For example , if a man has a low status job , few friends , or a low level of education he is a loser. A '5'male can become a 3 very quickly.

 

A women is defined by what she inherits. She is a pretty women. An average women. An ugly women. Her mate value is tied to her age. But it is unaffected by her efforts in life. Who she is born as is more important than what she achieves , or who she becomes.

 

 

On the other hand , there a several benefits for men from this dynamic . They have control , somewhat , over how attractive they are. They can be doctors or engineers etc and this is their identity in dating.

 

Being a man is a high risk high reward endeavour. If you fail you'll suffer horribly , you'll be rejected not only by women but by society as well. If you win the world is yours.

 

 

Being a women is the conservative option. You'll gave a safe existence , dating, love and life will come easy to you but try and break the glass ceiling and you'll hit massive resistance. Your value is inherited but immutable.

 

Sometimes I wish I was a female. My personality would be more suited in a female body.

 

Now I have to be forced to find higher employment just for the sake of dating higher-end females only because I'm a male. Also, my personality means far less in the long run.

 

*sigh*

 

*puts head down in shame*