A long dry spell

[venusishername]

Lol...Jesus, what an outdated view. And you wonder why you're never approached? Have you ever thought of smashing the stereotype and actually going up to a MAN and asking him out? I have never once been approached by a woman, which is a pretty sad state of affairs. It's always been me having to do the asking, which quite frankly pisses me off. I'm not bad looking and am well educated but if women expect to be treated equally then stop thinking men should do all the chasing!

 

I HAVE asked men out, just very rarely and as a previous poster mentioned, it's the fear of rejection that prevents me from doing it more. I also want to be swept off my feet so I feel that if I want that then I shouldn't be the one to pursue. Actually, the three different times I've liked a guy so much I broke my own rules and asked him out, he either straight out rejected me or gave me major mixed signals. So I don't know; I haven't had much luck with that!

[venusishername]

Your post kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

 

You're pretty much expecting the highest class of men to be approaching YOU and decline any offers from lesser quality men.

 

So you are indeed being flirted with, given attention to, and even asked out, but you choose to reject that.

 

Here is the simple truth: If you think a man is attractive, smart, resourceful, etc. etc. etc., likely there are 20 other women whom see the same thing. Think of that as competition. Do you plan to sit back and let one of them win him over, or are you going to join the fight?

 

It seems like you're pissed that a man doesn't just drop from the sky into your hands. It's sad, really.

 

Well, I did say I was picky! I've been through the ringer, trust me so I think I'm entitled to be choosy. Not necessarily decline any offers; I do give some a chance, but honestly it takes a lot to hold my attention. I've been around long enough like I said to pick up on the red flags or weed out what doesn't work for me.

 

Yes, I am being flirted with, I am given attention to, but my problem, like I said is meeting someone who I am really interested in and vice versa, and then it progressing past a superficially flirtatious or arms-length distance. That's all I'm saying.

 

I'll be totally honest. It's very easy for me to find someone to hook up with if that's what I was after, it's even not that hard to meet someone and go on ONE date. But I don't want just that. It's getting past that level that I'm struggling with.

 

I do like your competition analogy... it does go both ways for men and women! I never thought I had to compete, but you do have a very good point. I usually don't do that because I figure I'd be rejected; again, this goes both ways!

[venusishername]

For all the men that notice me, only the ones that I would never give the time of day actually have the courage to come after me.

-------------------

hm how about stop being shallow and at least have a cup of coffee with them?

you can't judge them by their looks. it's all about personality right? lol

 

No, I don't think I'm being shallow. It's either there or it's not and I'm not referring to looks.

 

I casually dated someone intermittently last year because he and I had a great connection and rapport and a lot in common. I kept giving it a chance to find that 'spark' because he's a great guy, but he wasn't in my view very good looking. His personality is awesome so I loved being around him, but it just wasn't there.

 

I'd certainly consider doing that more often if the opportunity came up! But I'm not going to agree to going out with someone who I know immediately isn't going to be the right fit. Personality comes across right away just as looks do.

[venusishername]

Are they the guys who have options?

 

Yes....

And it makes me feel ****ty, like they notice me but I'm not good enough or worth it for them to go after.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Put it this way: say a guy you like finds both you and Sally attractive.

 

You do nothing but Sally is proactive about getting to know him and showing signs of interest. Even if he finds you slightly more attractive, he is more likely to start dating Sally.

 

Men prefer to do less work and not face rejection if they can get away with it.

 

My brother is very good looking, and all of his girlfriends initiated things with him.

 

I was blown away how aggressive other women can be, especially in late 20s and above.

[venusishername]

Put it this way: say a guy you like finds both you and Sally attractive.

 

You do nothing but Sally is proactive about getting to know him and showing signs of interest. Even if he finds you slightly more attractive, he is more likely to start dating Sally.

 

Men prefer to do less work and not face rejection if they can get away with it.

 

My brother is very good looking, and all of his girlfriends initiated things with him.

 

I was blown away how aggressive other women can be, especially in late 20s and above.

 

Hmmm.. yes, you are right. No one wants rejection!

My brother is also very good looking guy and when he was in college and on the prowl women (and beautiful women) THREW themselves at him. He didn't have to do any of the work. (see this is what I want! How do I get this?!)

 

Yes, I've seen women in their late 20s and above be extremely aggressive; these are my peers now! Guess I need to adjust. I was in long term relationships on and off from 18-27 and now 2 years being single I've had to learn how to date again!

[venusishername]

Just what I thought...

 

My hypotheses I think about everyday are being validated more and more with each occurrence I see of similar things.

 

Well, what's your advice then? This is my entire dilemma!

[Eternal Sunshine]

If you are recently single, you will find two types of men heavily pursuing you:

 

1. Good looking, confident players. They will come on strong and lose interest once they get what they want or it's obvious you won't give it to them

 

2. Creepy guys that are desperate and completely unaware of your lack of interest. They will interpret any normal interaction as a proof that you are interested in them.

 

With others, it's much more give and take.

[venusishername]

Then again, telling women not to go after alpha males is like asking an untrained puppy not to defecate on the carpet.

 

So you see the dilemma then

[venusishername]

If you are recently single, you will find two types of men heavily pursuing you:

 

1. Good looking, confident players. They will come on strong and lose interest once they get what they want or it's obvious you won't give it to them

 

2. Creepy guys that are desperate and completely unaware of your lack of interest. They will interpret any normal interaction as a proof that you are interested in them.

 

With others, it's much more give and take.

 

Not recently single anymore (almost 2 years), but these types seem to be the only ones out there. Much more of #1. How to break the spell then? Finding the ones who don' t fit into these 2 categories seems very difficult.

Is there a third category? And where are they, do tell???

 

I've always been drawn to overly confident/cocky guys who come on strong. It feels good to be pursued like that, which is exactly what I'm looking for. You're right, they either lose interest when I give them what they want or I won't give them what they want. Only a couple of times has this kind led into an actual relationship.

Edited February 13, 2013 by venusishername

[Ruby Slippers]

I relate to your more old-fashioned approach.

 

But it sounds to me like you're not having much fun with all this. If you get yourself all lit up and having a good time, you became way more magnetic to people.

 

This is a skill I've been working on a lot lately. If you are truly having a good time and being friendly and open, you will draw many more men to you than if you're just... being there, neutral. I'm still blown away by this. If I set my mind to it, I can leave the house and get men from 20 to 80 flirting with me a little, just by having fun and lighting myself up while I'm out and about.

 

Try it

[yongyong]

I can pretty much guess your attitude without even looking at your pics.

 

If you are above average, I am sure you have guys treating you well anywhere (a barista at coffee shop, subway sandwich boy, waiters, mechanics, random guys opening door for you etc)

You take this for granted and it is conveyed through your attitude. ('guys treat me this way voluntarily so what's wrong?')

I am sure you are a type of a girl who refuses to call First.

Here is the thing. If a guy sees you as Higher, he will work with that bitchiness.

(eg: a hot girl flakes out. Guys will understand and try couple more times. Average looking girl does that? she is out)

But you don't want those guys, right?

So why do guys at higher level should act like a guys at lower level?

 

You can keep your nose high to the sky and the construction worker guys will still hit on you on street. But guys you want, will not appreciate that kind of attitude.

 

I've been saying men and women are not equal in many areas.

you don't have to approach him like 'hey you are cute, I wanted to meet you'

But you are not even willing to give out warm signals to invite his approach because of your ego ('what if he doesn't smile back after I smile at him? I am a special girl, I can't do that')

 

You are standing at the end of the bridge and expect him to cross all the way.

Again, men and women are not equal. In this case, women should cross at least 20~30%

[Emilia]

You do nothing but Sally is proactive about getting to know him and showing signs of interest. Even if he finds you slightly more attractive, he is more likely to start dating Sally.

 

Men prefer to do less work and not face rejection if they can get away with it.

 

My brother is very good looking, and all of his girlfriends initiated things with him.

 

I was blown away how aggressive other women can be, especially in late 20s and above.

 

I think you don't want to pick men who will date anyone based on how much work they need to put in. Lazy guys don't make good relationship partners I don't think. This is why Ninja's post is so important.

 

This is a skill I've been working on a lot lately. If you are truly having a good time and being friendly and open, you will draw many more men to you than if you're just... being there, neutral. I'm still blown away by this. If I set my mind to it, I can leave the house and get men from 20 to 80 flirting with me a little, just by having fun and lighting myself up while I'm out and about.

 

Try it

 

Yes this is my experience too. It is the hurdle of getting from flirting to actually ask you out but it's practice practice practice :-) Partly because some men will get suspicious if you are friendly that you are too easily approachable by other guys too Sometimes you can't win.

 

Many men do feel that an attractive woman is just looking for the total package in looks, height, income, intelligence etc..and they'll either be intimidated and freeze up when they should make a move or just altogether not even consider it because he'll assume you're likely not even single or maybe even high-maintenance.

 

Therefore, if you're on the "attractive/hot girl" category in your social circle or natural habitat where ever you are from...you will likely need to initiate conversation or make some kind of open and friendly gesture just to give little jimmy enough courage to ask the milk man for some change for his chocolates he's selling at school. This is also likely in your best interest as you get to pick the guys, because the guys who are approaching you like I mentioned above, are usually going to be apart of one or two categories.

 

More attractive women do need to take more initiative at times....however, this doesn't mean you need to continue to initiate and show interest, you're only going to crack the door so Sparky can nudge his little nose around the door and go through...you're not looking to do all the work and make all the advances showing too much availability and interest,

 

Excellent advice I think. Guys need encouragement but you don't want them to be too comfortable, especially not early on. Even the really nice ones appreciate that they need to put some work in for women who are not low hanging fruit. It is self-selection on their part too, if they are reluctant because generally speaking they want an easy life and perhaps not too fussy over how well put-together a woman is, they are not worth having. Being kind and approachable is different from being aggressive and doing the work and attracting the type who isn't all that bothered over long term.

 

I see so many women posting here dating half-interested, reluctant men or simply guys who don't know their arse from their elbows. You don't want to end up being like one of those.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I think you don't want to pick men who will date anyone based on how much work they need to put in. Lazy guys don't make good relationship partners I don't think. This is why Ninja's post is so important.

 

 

 

Yes this is my experience too. It is the hurdle of getting from flirting to actually ask you out but it's practice practice practice :-) Partly because some men will get suspicious if you are friendly that you are too easily approachable by other guys too Sometimes you can't win.

 

 

 

Excellent advice I think. Guys need encouragement but you don't want them to be too comfortable, especially not early on. Even the really nice ones appreciate that they need to put some work in for women who are not low hanging fruit. It is self-selection on their part too, if they are reluctant because generally speaking they want an easy life and perhaps not too fussy over how well put-together a woman is, they are not worth having. Being kind and approachable is different from being aggressive and doing the work and attracting the type who isn't all that bothered over long term.

 

I see so many women posting here dating half-interested, reluctant men or simply guys who don't know their arse from their elbows. You don't want to end up being like one of those.

 

I didn't actually mean aggressive as in asking men out. Just friendly and open and flirty.

 

When I said that other women are aggressive, I meant it as a negative. I am against desperation on either side and would never date a man that's half hearted about me.

 

If you are friendly and flirty and he still isn't biting, move on. It's a fine light to walk between being that and aggressive though.

[Imported]

Didn't read all the postings, but wanted to say that generally, men that you don't want approach you because they are use to trying with zero feedback from girls. They probably never get any indication a girl is interested and have accepted to just go for it anyway.

 

Guys that you wanted, I bet you never give them any ques. These guys are use to women being attracted to them and such women are usually obvious about it. Guessing you're like a cold fish OP. You give out nothing to any guy that you just might be interested. As such, only guys that are use to trying with nothing will try. Doubt it has anything to do with being intimidated lol. Plenty of other women that make themselves easier to read.

[yongyong]

I kind of agree with that. I think that's how women are programmed.

 

Eg: I went to the coffee shop last night. When I walked in, this girl turned her head and looked at me. (any guys and girls do that) But within 1 second, I felt something different. When I was approaching a table to get sugar, she looked at me again. I was curious if she was looking at me just because I looked at her. So I was about to walk other way, looking at other direction. I could see her looking at my back.

I went back later to throw trash near her. she looked at me again.

If I was at a bar, I would have no problem approaching her even though she was surrounded by many girls.

But I was at a coffee shop. I had to literally stop in the middle of the room and say 'hey how are you' or 'do you mind if I sit with you'

I will have more courage if I see her again and she does the same thing...

 

 

I think she did enough as women but we were just at not a perfect place to meet each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are friendly and flirty and he still isn't biting, move on. It's a fine light to walk between being that and aggressive though.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I kind of agree with that. I think that's how women are programmed.

 

Eg: I went to the coffee shop last night. When I walked in, this girl turned her head and looked at me. (any guys and girls do that) But within 1 second, I felt something different. When I was approaching a table to get sugar, she looked at me again. I was curious if she was looking at me just because I looked at her. So I was about to walk other way, looking at other direction. I could see her looking at my back.

I went back later to throw trash near her. she looked at me again.

If I was at a bar, I would have no problem approaching her even though she was surrounded by many girls.

But I was at a coffee shop. I had to literally stop in the middle of the room and say 'hey how are you' or 'do you mind if I sit with you'

I will have more courage if I see her again and she does the same thing...

 

 

I think she did enough as women but we were just at not a perfect place to meet each other.

 

Yep. If she has not done that (repeatedly looked at you), you most likely wouldn't notice her..

[yongyong]

I am sure any guys and girls run into this kind of situation sometimes.

 

The thing is for me, it happens when I Least expect it. I dress up nice and go out to malls and grocery store to possibly talk to girls. No girls give out such signals. I just have to cold approach out of blue.

 

When I am not thinking about approaching girls (not dressed nice, didn't brush my teeth), such situations happen

 

Yesterday, my hair wasn't perfect lol and the girl was very pretty brunette so I had to get suspicious if she was really into me or not.

 

I wish she gave me a warm smile so I could have more courage to approach her. I can't blame her though. That's just how it is.

 

A woman can only give out little signal and guys have to take a risk based on that.

Both party doesn't want to get embarrassed. So although they might be interested in each other, it rarely happens.

That's why people go to bars (easier to approach) and OLD (easiest to approach) but those are the places you can get frustrated easily too.

 

 

 

Yep. If she has not done that (repeatedly looked at you), you most likely wouldn't notice her..

[Emilia]

I didn't actually mean aggressive as in asking men out. Just friendly and open and flirty.

 

When I said that other women are aggressive, I meant it as a negative. I am against desperation on either side and would never date a man that's half hearted about me.

 

If you are friendly and flirty and he still isn't biting, move on. It's a fine light to walk between being that and aggressive though.

 

I don't think aggressive is necessarily desperate, though I do think it's misguided. Yes it can be a tough one to get right. My golden rule is to be friendly and open with the guy I like the same level that works with others in a social situation (ie people are responsive to that amount of friendliness, not shocked by it, etc), he should respond positively too. If he doesn't encourage me, I move on. I think that's probably 'aggressive' enough.

[Emilia]

 

I think she did enough as women but we were just at not a perfect place to meet each other.

 

Yes, it's that kind of thing I do too to guys in shops or on a train for example. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[jcrew11]

No, I don't think I'm being shallow. It's either there or it's not and I'm not referring to looks.

 

I casually dated someone intermittently last year because he and I had a great connection and rapport and a lot in common. I kept giving it a chance to find that 'spark' because he's a great guy, but he wasn't in my view very good looking. His personality is awesome so I loved being around him, but it just wasn't there.

 

I'd certainly consider doing that more often if the opportunity came up! But I'm not going to agree to going out with someone who I know immediately isn't going to be the right fit. Personality comes across right away just as looks do.

 

You said this guy had a great personality, but you didn't like his looks - I think that is the definition of "Superficial"

 

You say you work in a male-dominated industry, then why is it so hard to meet single men? Or are they just nerdy ugly engineers?

 

You problem isn't your pretty looks. Your problem is "your personality." You sound like a "superficial perfectionist who is demanding and difficult on her boyfriend."

 

Listen up, the "Rich Good-looking Guys" don't want an "annoying difficult demanding woman" - they want a girl who is easy-going and fun to be around.

 

Take up some fun, outdoorsy hobbies. Take a step away from your "career goals" and focus on non-career stuff.

[jcrew11]

I can pretty much guess your attitude without even looking at your pics.

 

If you are above average, I am sure you have guys treating you well anywhere (a barista at coffee shop, subway sandwich boy, waiters, mechanics, random guys opening door for you etc)

You take this for granted and it is conveyed through your attitude. ('guys treat me this way voluntarily so what's wrong?')

I am sure you are a type of a girl who refuses to call First.

Here is the thing. If a guy sees you as Higher, he will work with that bitchiness.

(eg: a hot girl flakes out. Guys will understand and try couple more times. Average looking girl does that? she is out)

But you don't want those guys, right?

So why do guys at higher level should act like a guys at lower level?

 

You can keep your nose high to the sky and the construction worker guys will still hit on you on street. But guys you want, will not appreciate that kind of attitude.

 

I've been saying men and women are not equal in many areas.

you don't have to approach him like 'hey you are cute, I wanted to meet you'

But you are not even willing to give out warm signals to invite his approach because of your ego ('what if he doesn't smile back after I smile at him? I am a special girl, I can't do that')

 

You are standing at the end of the bridge and expect him to cross all the way.

Again, men and women are not equal. In this case, women should cross at least 20~30%

 

I was watching How I met your mother, and Robin complains that Men are no longer nice to her when she wears her Engagement ring and is no longer single. She no longer gets free stuff from desperate guys at shops. This is the dilemma of the "Hot Girl" - her Ego is so inflated because common guys go out of their way to be nice all of her life; that she can no longer function in real life.

[venusishername]

You said this guy had a great personality, but you didn't like his looks - I think that is the definition of "Superficial"

 

You say you work in a male-dominated industry, then why is it so hard to meet single men? Or are they just nerdy ugly engineers?

 

You problem isn't your pretty looks. Your problem is "your personality." You sound like a "superficial perfectionist who is demanding and difficult on her boyfriend."

 

Listen up, the "Rich Good-looking Guys" don't want an "annoying difficult demanding woman" - they want a girl who is easy-going and fun to be around.

 

Take up some fun, outdoorsy hobbies. Take a step away from your "career goals" and focus on non-career stuff.

 

I think your comments are a little uncalled for. No, I don't think it's superficial that I'm not attracted to this guy. I do really like him but as far as a relationship goes, it's just not there. I gave it a shot for a long time and honestly I wish that it was there for me because he's awesome. Some things can't be or shouldn't be forced. I think he's great, and lately I've been thinking about trying to rekindle something again, but he backed off so that's not really an option. We still talk, we just don't see each other anymore. He's just as aloof as I am, so I think we both realized it wasn't a good fit. On the other hand, I liked him because he had a strong personality and could handle me and we could relate to each other. I'm looking for someone with some guts, like he had. Not one who plays games or hot and cold, or leaves me wondering, 'does he like me?' That's all I ask...

 

I'm not some cold, snobby ice princess; I am warm and friendly, and no, I don't work with a bunch of nerdy engineers. I like nerds anyway! The men around my work environment look but don't come near. I'll give them a smile if I'm interested or even strike up conversation but they never take it a step further. I figure I give off all the signals but no one is biting.

 

I'm not superficial, but you're right, I am a perfectionist, and I'm difficult and demanding. Maybe that's why I'm single. Thanks jcrew! Problem solved.

Edited February 15, 2013 by venusishername

[jcrew11]

I'm not some cold, snobby ice princess; I am warm and friendly, and no, I don't work with a bunch of nerdy engineers. I like nerds anyway!

 

The men around my work environment look but don't come near. I'll give them a smile if I'm interested or even strike up conversation but they never take it a step further. I figure I give off all the signals but no one is biting.

 

I'm not superficial, but you're right, I am a perfectionist, and I'm difficult and demanding. Maybe that's why I'm single. Thanks jcrew! Problem solved.

 

You're the one asking for advice and insight. It may or may not be the hard ugly truth, but sometimes we don't realize how we are being perceived.

 

You say you are a Friendly person, yet at the same time you are a Perfectionist and Demanding. What happens to the guys that don't meet your high standards? How do you treat them then?

 

Its not a joke - there is no such thing as "Perfection in a husband/boyfriend/spouse" - You're going to be 40 and still searching for MR Perfect or you'll end up getting artificially inseminated from a "brad pitt sperm donor"

 

I would be cautious about dating at work. If you are a lawyer or manager, there are lots of sexual harassment rules. Since you are the "demanding perfectionist" a co-worker does not want to break up with you and find himself in a litigious work setting. The men at work aren't scared of dating you, they're scared of breaking up with you and being fired for sexual harassment.

 

I don't know what "signals" you are giving out but if you really like a guy, then invite him out to a casual happy hour and start a platonic friendship at first. Guys get fired far more quickly for sexual harassment than women, so its best to take it slow.

 

You're not superficial, yet you dumped a guy with a great personality but wasn't good looking? Do you hear yourself speaking?

 

Do whatever you want, you obviously know what you're doing.

I'll tell you where to meet Perfectionist men - get your MBA, join a Republican volunteer group, or join Golds Gym

[hudson701]

Gold's gym - this, lol. You'll find plenty of self-indulgent gorgeous looking men there who will sweep you off your feet.