indifference?

[Fallen Petals]

I don't have a timeline for OW but I know what cheap minimization when I see it, and many of you do too. A few months is nowhere near long enough to do the work to fix something that big, that's just basic psychology.

 

But no one is talking about a life sentence. I don't expect a life sentence. The only one with a life sentence is the betrayed (and some of those affected too, like the children and sometimes others). The perpetrators never do get a life sentence, nor would it be feasible.

 

Saying a few weeks of months is fake forgiveness ie absolution is not the same as saying its a life sentence. that's a false dichotomy.

 

And bravo Stevie you got my point I think. Maybe what what I'm saying is they should always have guilt but not be debilitated forever. Call it acceptance if you like. Yes forgiveness of oneself does seem self indulgent! And it's not the perpetrators place to be forgiving. Accepting and moving on yes.

 

Saying you've forgiven yourself is saying you're ok with it. And that can't be rIght ever. Cheating is never right.

 

I think I'm having a lucid moment and would like to chime in here. A friend of mine once told me I am the queen of over self punishment. It goes all the way back to my user name, in fact. I use the analogy I once heard a man give about a rose. It's beautiful and attractive - that should be the figurative me - my personality. If I am good I am like a rose in bloom, however, each big mistake that I make causes one of my petals to fall. It can never be reattached. But my friend misunderstands me when I talk about this. He sees my focus on the petals that have fallen, feels I am carrying them with me as guilt in my heart so I can continually berate myself and beat myself up for my mistakes. They aren't for that purpose. They are reminders so I can try not to repeat my mistakes. Clearly it sometimes takes a few petals from the same category of mistake before I learn...But you can't begin to move forward from these mistakes if you can't forgive yourself for them. I can look at them and feel the sadness of having done something wrong, but carrying a never ending guilt over it will do no one any good. We punish ourselves when we feel guilty, do things that aren't in the best interest of anyone because we feel we deserve it due to the guilt. I stayed with my H out of guilt - but I didn't properly heal in that stunted environment and it would have been better to just walk away. In my case - there's a greater possibility of us each having gone to counselling and then somewhere down the road begun to date again and reconcile from there perhaps. Now? I have no clue what the future holds.

 

Also, there are two types of forgivers - those who forgive others easier than themselves, and those who forgive themselves easier than others. I am in the former category. I know my survival kicks in and in order not to totally loathe myself I pull justifications in to help tamp down the pain - you've seen me do it and after the fact I recognize it - but once the dust settles and I can see things clearly for what they are - the demon in the closet is always some form of myself. No one makes me do the things that I do and no one holds the blame for my actions. xMM holds blame for his actions...not mine.

 

And as for hurting a stranger - this is just one of those areas where there are again - two sides to the fence. The butterfly affect. If you choose do this thing here, yes down the road it will come back and cause detriment there - but if you don't take the time to walk through the steps in your mind you don't see that far ahead. It's not a conscious decision to hurt a person you don't know. Where for me, if I know the BS, I am much more likely going to be unable to avoid thinking about her and how this will affect her. If I have to see her, make eye contact, speak with her - it all comes crashing down on my head what I have been a party to in the harm being done to this person without their knowledge. Sadly there are examples of this in every facet of human history and likely where the term "It's business, not personal" comes to play much of the time. It's the ability to separate the action from the people being affected negatively. It's not a positive trait, it's just a common one.

 

On last thought - forgiving yourself isn't condoning your actions, saying they're alright...that would imply it's perfectly ok to repeat them again. Forgiving yourself simply means you're not going to keep punishing yourself for that mistake anymore. You're going to lift your head above it, be a better person, learn from it and move forward rather than sit in the swill you created in making the mistake. It's the journey to self reparation. BS cannot keep the WS and expect a happy and fulfilling if they don't forgive them. So the same goes for self...who can live with themselves if they never forgive themselves?

 

Forgetting? Now that's a different topic entirely.

[stevie_23]

I think I was in a bit of a “hard” place yesterday when I posted the stuff about self forgiveness being self indulgent. It was a long day at work and I was in “business mode”, with many of my normal emotions shut off.

 

When defined by way of stopping punishing yourself internally for your actions, stopping feeling unproductive guilt, stopping feeling self-hatred for those actions, and feeling equipped after a period of introspection to make the change required to move on, free of guilt and self-hatred, then self-forgiveness is very much needed and a positive thing. I now think without it, you can’t move forward because you’re too busy holding onto the negative aspects of your actions as opposed to releasing them entirely – releasing the guilt and hatred, and releasing the possibility of repeating them.