Thoughts?

[spice4life]

It has been posted in a few threads that hate and digust for the AP is a must in reconciliation. I get that it may be a part of the journey, but how can one forgive themselves (which is also important) if they are holding onto hate and anger? Isn't forgiveness the last and most important part of the healing process? Doesn't holding onto hate and disgust mean you are holding onto hate and disgust for yourself too? I'm curious because I believe that forgiveness means you have healed what led you down that path to begin with. It seems to me that holding onto hate and anger is a defense to prevent one from cheating again, but doesn't necessarily heal the issue within that led you there in the first place. Isn't that more important and a better defense to preventing future infidelity or affairs?

 

And this goes for the OW's/OM's who end up in affairs as well. Do you feel holding onto the hate and disgust are necessary? Where does accepting and forgiving someone's flaws come into the picture?

Edited February 10, 2013 by spice4life

[wisernow]

It has been posted in a few threads that hate and digust for the AP is a must in reconciliation. I get that it may be a part of the journey, but how can one forgive themselves (which is also important) if they are holding onto hate and anger? Isn't forgiveness the last and most important part of the healing process? Doesn't holding onto hate and disgust mean you are holding onto hate and disgust for yourself too? I'm curious because I believe that forgiveness means you have healed what led you down that path to begin with. It seems to me that holding onto hate and anger is a defense to prevent one from cheating again, but doesn't necessarily heal the issue within that led you there in the first place. Isn't that more important and a better defense to preventing future infidelity or affairs?

 

And this goes for the OW's/OM's who end up in affairs as well. Do you feel holding onto the hate and disgust are necessary? Where does accepting and forgiving someone's flaws come into the picture?

 

I think you can find a behavior disgusting, even hate that behavior. Hating the person for years and years is another thing all together. For me, holding on to hatred only hurts yourself. It's likely the person you attach your hatred toward doesn't even know or if they knew, wouldn't care. To me it's a wasted emotion on someone who no longer matters one iota in my life.

 

I personally don't see any relationship with hating the xmm to my never cheating again. The two things have nothing to do with the other. I don't hate him, and I will never cheat again. For me, it's simple. Hate doesn't factor in at all.

[ForeverGuilt]

It has been posted in a few threads that hate and digust for the AP is a must in reconciliation. I get that it may be a part of the journey, but how can one forgive themselves (which is also important) if they are holding onto hate and anger? Isn't forgiveness the last and most important part of the healing process? Doesn't holding onto hate and disgust mean you are holding onto hate and disgust for yourself too? I'm curious because I believe that forgiveness means you have healed what led you down that path to begin with. It seems to me that holding onto hate and anger is a defense to prevent one from cheating again, but doesn't necessarily heal the issue within that led you there in the first place. Isn't that more important and a better defense to preventing future infidelity or affairs?

 

And this goes for the OW's/OM's who end up in affairs as well. Do you feel holding onto the hate and disgust are necessary? Where does accepting and forgiving someone's flaws come into the picture?

 

Hi S4L, I really have no place to have much of an opinion as I am new to this whole type of situation. I harbor more anger and embarrassment for myself, but I will say that I do harbor anger for him as well. Mostly because I was a pawn in his game. I think he really knew he wouldn't leave but couldn't fight the drug (me). I should feel bad for him that he more than likely has a sexual addiction/dysfunction, but for me it was an very deep emotional connection. It takes a very strong and healthy person to release that anger that caused such pain, but I think it is necessary in order to move on and engage in a new and healthy relationship. I pray (for myself and my healing) that I find forgiveness and empathy for him. Only then do I think you have truly let go. I don't feel like I owe him anything and he has said as much.

[spice4life]

I don't necessarily agree that forgiveness is not necessary. I also think that scars can be transformed into something positive in a relationship and can help it evolve into something awesome that one may have never considered before. Pain, no matter the form it comes in, presents an opportunity to do the "real" work that ultimately helps one evolve to a better more secure place. I do agree that it is "part" of the process to healing though.

[spice4life]

Hi S4L, I really have no place to have much of an opinion as I am new to this whole type of situation. I harbor more anger and embarrassment for myself, but I will say that I do harbor anger for him as well. Mostly because I was a pawn in his game. I think he really knew he wouldn't leave but couldn't fight the drug (me). I should feel bad for him that he more than likely has a sexual addiction/dysfunction, but for me it was an very deep emotional connection. It takes a very strong and healthy person to release that anger that caused such pain, but I think it is necessary in order to move on and engage in a new and healthy relationship. I pray (for myself and my healing) that I find forgiveness and empathy for him. Only then do I think you have truly let go. I don't feel like I owe him anything and he has said as much.

 

ForeverGuilt I completely understand where you are coming from and know the pain you're feeling. Stay true to yourself and just know that you will move past the raw pain you're feeling right now.

[Catplates]

I never hated xMM. I loved him and some part of me still does.

 

I don't find him disgusting because he simply isn't.

 

We both made a big mistake and let it go on for too long. He was found out.

 

He will spend a long time paying a heavy penalty. My punishment is my own business that I still deal with after a very long time.

 

Cat.

[spice4life]

Forgiveness is a process and takes time. I wish it was as simple as telling oneself to just let it go, but it's not.

 

Certainly, long term negative feelings can be unhealthy, but each of us has our own timeline.

 

I'm three years past D-day and I still harbor negative feelings towards some of the people involved but that is simply because they just didn't care about the victims of their actions. The OW that did care and offered her heartfelt apologies is the one I don't harbor ill feelings for.

 

I completely agree that we all are on our own timeline. I can also ID with your situation and still have some unresolved feelings toward some people in my situation.

[CautionaryTale]

I hated the OW for a while, that's just part of the process. After a while, especially after I left the situation entirely and had time to heal and rationalize things... I don't know, it just lost importance. She got hurt too, she's responsible for her hurt feelings but, isn't that in a way harder?

 

I've made lots of mistakes in my life, the ones that I've made where I ended up in pain were the hardest to get over. Doing yourself injustices IME was harder to deal with. It requires you to examine yourself and see your faults and shortcomings. That's not always an easy thing to admit or fix.

 

I forgive the OW, I don't LOVE her or what she did, and if I had stayed she would have to disappear completely from our lives in order to move on. Personally the need to hate her, or have him hate her wouldn't be necessary FOR ME.

 

I don't know, different strokes for different folks.

[ComingInHot]

Hate is such an extreme emotion that Does happen. I HATED that my husband cheated. I HATE that the exOW was so incredibly cruel to me.

 

Do I Hate either one of them as individuals. No, but they sure did make me angry.

 

I still get angry sometimes or feel sad about the whole thing but to hate a person would never allow me to heal. I don't "like" the exOW but I'm pretty sure I don't have to*

 

That's my take at least & it has worked for so far

[spice4life]

FWIW I think scars dont transform. They are still scars. They fade. They may lead to the rest of your life parts being healthier (like the scar of an operation) but it doesn't change the hurt.

 

I don't think I agree with most people on the definition of forgiveness so I prefer by to use the word. I think forgiveness is a transaction, and so someone who is out of your life doesn't really get forgiveness, they get written out. I think there has to be some kind of recompense for forgiveness to be real. By my definition. Acceptance is a different thing.

 

I won't ever forgive my father. He has done nothing to earn it, and if I did I would be condoning and letting him off the hook. I will always find his behavior disgusting if I think about it. I had not thought about it or him for years when an A that I hold him partly contributing to made me recall him. And I found I had written him off. I no longer care that he was a bad egg. I don't care if he redeemed himself in his own time. I have no desire to enter a transaction towards forgiveness wit him, I prefer to just accept he was no good and forget until reminded.

 

If I was asked to give advice to him I would say that he cannot mend what he did he can only never hurt people like that again, and be always sorry. Which is entirely irrelevant as of course he blames everyone else and thinks what he did was not that awful.

 

My father too has issues and I find myself mourning his loss now while he is still alive. I know he is not capable of mending the damage he created and my forgiveness towards him comes in the form of accepting he is a flawed character and none of it has to do with me. I can now detach from the pain and understand that he will never be a part of my life in any "real" sense because he's not capable. Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to tell the person or make them a part of your life in any way; it can come in the form of just understanding they have a flaw and it's up to them to figure it out and that it has nothing to do with you.

[spice4life]

Hate is such an extreme emotion that Does happen. I HATED that my husband cheated. I HATE that the exOW was so incredibly cruel to me.

 

Do I Hate either one of them as individuals. No, but they sure did make me angry.

 

I still get angry sometimes or feel sad about the whole thing but to hate a person would never allow me to heal. I don't "like" the exOW but I'm pretty sure I don't have to*

 

That's my take at least & it has worked for so far

 

You are an incredibly strong evolved person. I totally agree that you do not have to like the exOW and very rightly so! I don't believe that forgiveness means you have to like the person at all. I belive it means that you understand they are flawed and it's their journey to figure it out.

[SunshineToday]

For me I had to hate my AP for a while. I hated, felt disgusted and totally regretted everything I risked--- all the pain I caused ---and I felt he enabled it. anyhow after a while I stopped hating and just stopped thinking anything about my AP. I was in a happy reconciliation and I guess that helped.

 

So I do think to hate the OW/OM at first, leading to indifference is normal once you end an affair and reconcile with your spouse.

 

I mean what is worse, I hate you? Or I just dont even care about you enough to even hate you?

[spice4life]

FWIW I think scars dont transform. They are still scars. They fade. They may lead to the rest of your life parts being healthier (like the scar of an operation) but it doesn't change the hurt.

 

I don't think I agree with most people on the definition of forgiveness so I prefer by to use the word. I think forgiveness is a transaction, and so someone who is out of your life doesn't really get forgiveness, they get written out. I think there has to be some kind of recompense for forgiveness to be real. By my definition. Acceptance is a different thing.

 

I won't ever forgive my father. He has done nothing to earn it, and if I did I would be condoning and letting him off the hook. I will always find his behavior disgusting if I think about it. I had not thought about it or him for years when an A that I hold him partly contributing to made me recall him. And I found I had written him off. I no longer care that he was a bad egg. I don't care if he redeemed himself in his own time. I have no desire to enter a transaction towards forgiveness wit him, I prefer to just accept he was no good and forget until reminded.

 

If I was asked to give advice to him I would say that he cannot mend what he did he can only never hurt people like that again, and be always sorry. Which is entirely irrelevant as of course he blames everyone else and thinks what he did was not that awful.

 

Sounds like your father is a narcisisst. They always find a reason why it's not their fault and everyone else is to blame.

[spice4life]

For me I had to hate my AP for a while. I hated, felt disgusted and totally regretted everything I risked--- all the pain I caused ---and I felt he enabled it. anyhow after a while I stopped hating and just stopped thinking anything about my AP. I was in a happy reconciliation and I guess that helped.

 

So I do think to hate the OW/OM at first, leading to indifference is normal once you end an affair and reconcile with your spouse.

 

I mean what is worse, I hate you? Or I just dont even care about you enough to even hate you?

 

Right, indifference is the best place to be. I agree that hating and feeling disgusted is an important part of the healing process. I was just wondering if people felt it was necessary to hold onto that forever and ever.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Forgiveness, or moving on, letting go, is about the individual who is healing. And it is definitely a process. Much more than ~sorry~ oh, don't mention it~. It's about moving forward and loving or valuing yourself enough not hold on to the hatred.

[anne1707]

For me I had to hate my AP for a while. I hated, felt disgusted and totally regretted everything I risked--- all the pain I caused ---and I felt he enabled it. anyhow after a while I stopped hating and just stopped thinking anything about my AP. I was in a happy reconciliation and I guess that helped.

 

So I do think to hate the OW/OM at first, leading to indifference is normal once you end an affair and reconcile with your spouse.

 

I mean what is worse, I hate you? Or I just dont even care about you enough to even hate you?

 

I totally relate to this. I went through hate, contempt and now it is just indifference. The exOM is nothing to me.

[Spark1111]

I think this is normal. I believe APs must go through stages to heal and anger is a very viable one.

 

when the smoke clears and the fog lifts, hell yeah,my fWS was angry at her.

 

she was the only person on the planet who would encourage him to betray the VERY things she most admired: His wife, his family, his integrity, his legacy.

 

why? To feel good about herself. No true friend, love, family member or FRIEND would have allowed you to do that with them or any other person even in the name of love.

 

He did get to indifference about her way before I did, but that was okay in the long run.

 

today, we simply do not care. I actually feel sorry for her.

[skylarblue]

I'm not a BS so the only thing I can say on that issue is the only thing that's going to stop a fWS from cheating again is his own genuine remorse and change in moral character. Without those nothing else he/she does will matter.

 

As an fOW, I never hated xMM or was really angry at him per se. I was more "angry" with/at things that happened in the A. I put "angry" in quotes because I truly believe and live by the thought that anger is actually the manifestation of hurt, frustration, and/or disappointment. I was all of these by MM, but never "angry". Sometimes it is hurt, frustration, and/or disappointment with ourselves instead or in addition to the other person. As for accepting his character flaws, I did that automatically by continuing to see him, as he did me. It doesn't mean I liked or was happy with them (although at times I was).

 

I don't believe "hate" is bad. It's a natural emotion that describes a person's level of dislike for someone/something. It's only bad when/if it affects your life in a negative way or makes you affect someone else's life in a negative way. I have people I hate (both known and unknown). I hate certain types of people. There's no affect from this. There have been times though when I had to realize the hate I was holding on to in certain situations wasn't beneficial, productive, or necessary, and I had to let it go. For those times, it was needed and weight lifting. I think of the pharse "I will never let someone bring me down so low as to hate them." My interpretation of "low"- any time I allow my hatred to have a negative affect on me (in thought or action). On the upside, I've also let hate(rs) be my motivate(rs) in a positive direction.

 

I feel the same way about the aspect of forgiveness. It is not always necessary (at least for me). It's only necessary if it impacts your life negatively. Somethings are unforgivable to some and I think that's okay. It's also not unreasonable IMO to expect or require someone to earn forgiveness. I think forgiveness is only necessary if it helps the one forgiving (emotionally and/or situational).

[flattened]

The premise that you must hate your xOP or you're still "betraying" your spouse is ridiculous. Does this mean unless you hate all your ex's in your life, you're not faithful to your partner now? If you still have fond feelings for an ex, despite the fact that they're an ex, and you don't want them in your life anymore, you can't be loyal to your current partner? Nonsense. Most human relations wouldn't survive if that was the case.

 

That's not saying anything about affairs, or how you feel about the people who engaged in them. The bottom line is that it's a relationship between two people - some end in hate, some end in indifference, and some end with an amount of warmth and caring.

[Spark1111]

The premise that you must hate your xOP or you're still "betraying" your spouse is ridiculous. Does this mean unless you hate all your ex's in your life, you're not faithful to your partner now? If you still have fond feelings for an ex, despite the fact that they're an ex, and you don't want them in your life anymore, you can't be loyal to your current partner? Nonsense. Most human relations wouldn't survive if that was the case.

 

That's not saying anything about affairs, or how you feel about the people who engaged in them. The bottom line is that it's a relationship between two people - some end in hate, some end in indifference, and some end with an amount of warmth and caring.

 

I agree, and it is how I feel about every x I've ever had.

 

but to me, an AP is different. Like I said earlier, the AP encourages, aids or abets lying to your spouse, encourages or accepts the secrecy and subterfuge.

 

I never did that in any relationship I've ever had. have you?

 

so I do understand the anger some may feel towards their xAP.

[Spark1111]

I only felt empathy towards her initially.

 

Today, she absolutely hates my guts and I will never understand why.

 

why is that?

[wisernow]

I only felt empathy towards her initially.

 

Today, she absolutely hates my guts and I will never understand why.

 

why is that?

 

Because you have what she wanted. I'm not saying it's right, but more than likely true for her. Twisted.

[spice4life]

I only felt empathy towards her initially.

 

Today, she absolutely hates my guts and I will never understand why.

 

why is that?

 

Honestly, I dunno. I never understood how some exOWs hate the BS. The only thing I can think of is that they didn't get what they wanted and they blame the BS for standing in the way. Very misguided to say the least. People end up with who it is that they truly want and love. I never felt that way in my experience...ever (hating the BS I mean). It's just wrong on so many levels ya know? It also means that the xOW has some serious introspection and work to do.

Edited February 11, 2013 by spice4life

[stevie_23]

Maybe I’m a hippie or something, but I think unless it feels like a natural progression in your healing and moving on process, anger and hatred for your former AP can be unnecessary.

 

I think the process of reconciling fully with your wife or husband after an A encompasses a wide range of things, and most of all it is the re-commitment to that spouse and taking everything you possibly can from your experiences during the A, why you got into it in the first place, exploring what you felt throughout it and why, and from that if you have come out of it having determined that you want to remain with your spouse, and then using those experiences and greater self awareness and wisdom (hopefully) to move forward in your life. I don’t see that the A needs to be viewed as some sort of abhorrent thing, or a failure. There ARE no failure relationships – they are all learning experiences to show you where you want to move forward to in your life and with whom.

 

In terms of the ex-AP, if you were with them enough and had feelings strong enough to now feel HATRED or DISGUST towards them (as well as the relationship in general), then you obviously loved them in some way. They were obviously a person of value to you at some point in the process, and while you clearly cannot maintain that love or care for them now, you don’t have to go the complete opposite way and despise them.

 

Hating and being disgusted at a time in your life, or feeling that way for a person who was close to you in your life for a while, implies to me that you have shut off that time in your life. That you will block it and think nothing of it but hatred. And I don’t find this useful in terms of moving on productively. You have to use the experience as a learning tool (as I said above) and explore your feelings so you don’t repeat your mistakes. Often getting into an affair in the first place shows you are in at least partial denial about the unhappiness or emptiness you feel inside and/or in your life, so ignoring the A and the ex-AP in terms of working through it thoroughly and rationally and with understanding, is continuing this kind of partial denial as you move forward.

 

In terms of the spouse of a formerly WS, it’s also not useful for THEM to view the A or ex-AP with disgust and hatred either. In order for them to fully move on within the marriage, they would be better to try to understand fully their partner’s actions and reasons for their feelings. If both partners banish the A and ex-AP to the “hate trash can”, well…the risk for a recurrence is greater I think.

 

I don’t think it’s disloyalty to your newly re-committed marriage or spouse to NOT view the A or ex-AP as disgusting. On a superficial level perhaps, but in all the ways that are important, the gaining of greater and deeper wisdom and understanding, both of the A, your spouse and your own self, is what matters.

 

In fact, besides the fact maintaining hated / disgust towards something tends to keep it “alive” for longer than finding peace and understanding, it may even come across as a slightly extreme reaction in that “he protest too much” kind of thing. If I was a BS, and my partner was proclaiming to HATE his ex-AP, I’d doubt that he was being completely honest with me and also maybe with himself. Did he feel nothing for this woman? Why risk / hurt his marriage and me for “nothing”? And if he DID care for her, and now he HATES her…how quickly / easily is he able to switch his feelings around? That’d make me uneasy. If he is content to consign her and that time in his life to the “disgust” box, and must “forget” all about it in order to supposedly move on? I would say he hasn’t obtained much wisdom from the experience. If nothing else, I’d like to know he learnt SOMETHING, and whether he now hates the woman or that relationship and views it all as disgusting to me would be fairly irrelevant. It is much EASIER to be loyal to someone when you HATE the alternative. But it MEANS more to be loyal to someone if you don’t hate the alternative and have chosen to be loyal out of great understanding.

[ForeverGuilt]

For me I had to hate my AP for a while. I hated, felt disgusted and totally regretted everything I risked--- all the pain I caused ---and I felt he enabled it. anyhow after a while I stopped hating and just stopped thinking anything about my AP. I was in a happy reconciliation and I guess that helped.

 

So I do think to hate the OW/OM at first, leading to indifference is normal once you end an affair and reconcile with your spouse.

 

I mean what is worse, I hate you? Or I just dont even care about you enough to even hate you?

 

Hi SunshineToday,

 

How long did it take you to stop hating and start healing?