Elfie Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 If a man or woman maries, declaring to love until death do part, but one half doesn't fulfil the physical part (for whatever reason) - basically breaking the marriage vows, on the basis of "I know we don't have a physical relationship, and I don't intend doing anything about it, but I expect you to remain faithful" then hasn't the partner who then cheats, already been betrayed? "Forsaking all others" is a bit hard to adhere to perhaps? I only ask, as I read that a psychologist agreed the cheating partner in this instance had every right to seek physical love and warmth outside the marriage.
Decorative Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 If a man or woman maries, declaring to love until death do part, but one half doesn't fulfil the physical part (for whatever reason) - basically breaking the marriage vows, on the basis of "I know we don't have a physical relationship, and I don't intend doing anything about it, but I expect you to remain faithful" then hasn't the partner who then cheats, already been betrayed? "Forsaking all others" is a bit hard to adhere to perhaps? I only ask, as I read that a psychologist agreed the cheating partner in this instance had every right to seek physical love and warmth outside the marriage. Is the psychologist a cheater? I cannot comprehend a psychologist that would endorse deception and lying. 2
jwi71 Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 If a man or woman maries, declaring to love until death do part, but one half doesn't fulfil the physical part (for whatever reason) - basically breaking the marriage vows, on the basis of "I know we don't have a physical relationship, and I don't intend doing anything about it, but I expect you to remain faithful" then hasn't the partner who then cheats, already been betrayed? I would not say betrayed but rather deceived. And this would excuse the subsequent betrayal how? Two wrongs make for two wrongs. "Forsaking all others" is a bit hard to adhere to perhaps? In a situation as described - yes. Luckily not consummating the M in solid grounds for annulment in the Catholic Church (I say this given their views on D) and easily grounds in legal courts. I only ask, as I read that a psychologist agreed the cheating partner in this instance had every right to seek physical love and warmth outside the marriage. Focusing solely on the needs of one, as in an IC, I can see this advice being valid on the surface. And in the short term. However I can say it frequently is a PA becoming an EA which will cause MORE distress for the IC's patient in the mid to long term - as the stress builds within the patient. I would argue the IC needs to take a longer term view and not of simply solving the immediate and superficial issue. One might cynically say that IC simply needs to make his or her mortgage and what better way than to construct a steady stream of short term solutions which reasonably lead to longer term patients. 2
woinlove Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 If a man or woman maries, declaring to love until death do part, but one half doesn't fulfil the physical part (for whatever reason) - basically breaking the marriage vows, on the basis of "I know we don't have a physical relationship, and I don't intend doing anything about it, but I expect you to remain faithful" then hasn't the partner who then cheats, already been betrayed? "Forsaking all others" is a bit hard to adhere to perhaps? I only ask, as I read that a psychologist agreed the cheating partner in this instance had every right to seek physical love and warmth outside the marriage. For me, it makes a huge difference if you are honest or not. Because if you are dishonest, you remove the possibility of your spouse making an informed choice. Can't really withhold sex secretly, so the other spouse can still make an informed choice. They could decide to end the M. I doubt any psychologist would encourage someone to be dishonest. It is not only removing informed choice from the other spouse, but who wants to be a dishonest person? Most people feel better about themselves when they are honest and authentic. Some people may get kicks from leading a secret double life, but for most, that isn't the what makes them feel good. There can be lots of reasons one might have for ending an M besides cheating, and lack of sex may be one such reason. I don't see anything wrong with that. However, I don't see any good reason to behave in a dishonest and disloyal way. Even if the other person is, say they are cheating, I don't think that is a good reason to cheat. I think it is better to end the M than become a cheater too. 3
Realist3 Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 No psych worth his salt would say that. Actually quite a few do. You would be surprised. Most psychologists don't reside in the world of absolutes of the moral codes society places in front of us. 1
woinlove Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 Actually quite a few do. You would be surprised. Most psychologists don't reside in the world of absolutes of the moral codes society places in front of us. I'm bad at lying and don't like to deceive those I love about our life together, so I doubt any psychologist would recommend a solution that required me to lie. Maybe for others it is different. I have to admit, I don't understand those who find deceiving their spouse to be easy, or easy enough to spend huge parts of their life doing it. If a psychologist recommends discussing going outside the M, that is different. That does risk having the M end if the two spouses can't agree on a path forward, but discussing all this would be a good step forward imo.
Decorative Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 Actually quite a few do. You would be surprised. Most psychologists don't reside in the world of absolutes of the moral codes society places in front of us. So you're saying "most" psychologists would encourage deception as a healthy mental practice? Yeah. Notsomuch. 2
beenburned Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 Elfie, Why not just divorce, rather than stay in a marriage that you are unhappy in? If married people have to look for reasons to cheat, it's time for them to be single! 3
Decorative Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 Sounds like some shiggity Dr. Laura would say. Right after she told the betrayed spouse it was his or her fault. LOL 2
Realist3 Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 I'm bad at lying and don't like to deceive those I love about our life together, so I doubt any psychologist would recommend a solution that required me to lie. Maybe for others it is different. I have to admit, I don't understand those who find deceiving their spouse to be easy, or easy enough to spend huge parts of their life doing it. If a psychologist recommends discussing going outside the M, that is different. That does risk having the M end if the two spouses can't agree on a path forward, but discussing all this would be a good step forward imo. A lot of them will tell you not to expose as well.
woinlove Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 A lot of them will tell you not to expose as well. At least then they know they are dealing with someone who is good at deceit. The thing with not exposing and staying married, is one really has to wonder what kind of marriage one ends up with. I like lots of intimacy, so I know it wouldn't work for me. And I suspect some fraction of people having affairs crave intimacy too, although they may not know how to achieve it in any sustainable way. Keeping up deception is a good recipe for not having much intimacy. 3
Furious Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 A lot of them will tell you not to expose as well. The real reason many in the counseling profession will not advise to expose is purely to protect their practice and pocket book. Advising to expose and if by chance it leads to violence or physical harm, though rare, may leave the counselor culpable for those repercussions. Many professionals are protecting their practices from a potential lawsuit, and that is why they usually do not advise exposure. 2
Pierre Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 If a man or woman maries, declaring to love until death do part, but one half doesn't fulfil the physical part (for whatever reason) - basically breaking the marriage vows, on the basis of "I know we don't have a physical relationship, and I don't intend doing anything about it, but I expect you to remain faithful" then hasn't the partner who then cheats, already been betrayed? "Forsaking all others" is a bit hard to adhere to perhaps? I only ask, as I read that a psychologist agreed the cheating partner in this instance had every right to seek physical love and warmth outside the marriage. Are you supplying the sex? If you do they will be together for years to come. 1
pinecome41 Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 My love and his W stopped having sex a long time ago. She's a cold fish and doesn't even want him touching her. That's why he was so happy to find me. Our sex is amazing and he's not lonely anymore like he was with her.
skylarblue Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 I've seen a few therapists suggest a W can push a H to cheat and/or advise to keep an undiscovered A secret, but never have I seen one say "cheat BEFORE and WITHOUT bringing your issues to the W first." I'm sure there are therapists who believe a secret fling may be good for a M, but I'd think it's quite (nah extremely) rare within the circle. I don't recall a M vow that says "forsaking all others unless or until you as my partner don't give me sex frequently enough". Nor do I remember any other stipulations stating that the vow of fidelity was under condition of certain sexual requirements being met. I do remember something regarding to have and to hold FOR BETTER OR WORSE though. Does it mean a spouse is suppose to suffer, be abused, or endure an unhappy and/or unfulfilled M? No, but it does mean during the worse times spouses are suppose to do their best to bring each other and their M through it. Sometimes it requires patience, understanding, supportive action, and self-sacrifice, at times it may be more so on one than the other. It's for better or worse, not for better and then we'll see from there. There are going to be rough/worse times in a M. The goal should be trying to get back to the better, together. If you can't, you should split. If one or both partners decide they can't split for whatever reasons then one has no room to blame the other. It is their own decision that keeps them there. A betrayal by the one actually being betrayed? A betrayal of arbitrary conditions only agreed to and known to the betrayer? A betrayal by the one who had forsaken all others against the one who didn't? Get the f@ck outta here. Typical bullsh%t blame-shifting is all it is. Don't get me wrong. I'm one who can understand why a MM might cheat. However, I've never thought he wasn't wrong in doing so. Nor have I ever thought he didn't have options. Again, I can understand factors with the W causing the decision, but to say "she made me cheat by..." (as if she literally and against his will, put his...well you know) is a bullsh%t, bogus, scapegoat, cop-out. At least own your sh%t. Just say "my W wasn't having sex with me so I cheated". To me that's a reason, not a justification. We all have reasons to why we do things in life. A reason is an honest, cut and dry answer (absent of a right or wrong emotion). I can find respect in that even if I don't agree. I don't have the same regards towards justification which I see more as trying to prove "right" or "wrong" typically by blaming someone or something else. 3
Author Elfie Posted February 9, 2013 Author Posted February 9, 2013 Elfie, Why not just divorce, rather than stay in a marriage that you are unhappy in? If married people have to look for reasons to cheat, it's time for them to be single! He did throw up his arms once when I tried to leave and say "I wish I was single" - it's his 3rd mariage, maybe he's trapped. Or maybe I'm looking for excuses for him?
TaraMaiden Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 He did throw up his arms once when I tried to leave and say "I wish I was single" - it's his 3rd mariage, maybe he's trapped. Or maybe I'm looking for excuses for him? Noooooooo....!! Ya think - ?!? *Shakes head*.....
beenburned Posted February 9, 2013 Posted February 9, 2013 Elfie, Nobody is trapped!! It only takes one person wanting and filing for divorce to make it happen!! The wife is powerless to stop him according to divorce laws. 2
Recommended Posts