Jump to content

After that kick - I am checking for all my teeth


While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!

Recommended Posts

Posted
Thank you Tenacity (I think, if there's a backhander in there it's too subtle).

 

I still think the BS is all that matters because a man who cheats deserves no consideration. So he's a bad bet but I have no sympathy for *him*.

 

But from a purely pragmatic standpoint if you don't give a damn about others at least see you are inflicting pain on yourself which few will want to comfort you from.

 

No backhander. I'm about as subtle as a freight train. :)

 

I don't disagree with you or your premises MFH. I just hope you can see that not all OW are terrible people.

Posted
But you'll just have to agree to disagree with me on people in affairs. I don't think a non-bad person can be in an affair while they are there. I think it's the very definition of a bad person to hurt others consciously.

 

I don't disagree with that at all. I completely agree with you. To hurt others consciously is the definition of a bad person.

Posted
They can change just like the WS can.

 

Maybe we weren't all bad to begin with. Maybe we were good people who screwed up.

Posted

I don't like the term "mistake" though because it sounds so inadvertent. Snapping in frustration is a mistake. Hurting someone consciously is more. But different people mean different things by the word.

 

I could not agree more. I posted the same thing in the "complicated affair" thread to Brian. A mistake is something you make once. It is dismissive. Hurting someone consciously, over and over, is not a 'mistake'. It's a choice.

  • Like 3
  • Author
Posted
I'm beating my head on the desk in frustration. :D Maybe you will come back and read this thread again later, but you aren't getting it now. Since you've been around before you ought to know what gaslighting is, if you don't, look it up as it's likely that he what he was doing to her. Also if she rugsweeps, that isn't your concern. Again.......Stop focusing on them..........focus on yourself.

 

I could write a hundred posts of how f'd up I think it is that the bs in my situation stayed with xmm, (assuming she is still with him), but it's not my concern and frankly it's none of my business, just as your xmm and his wife's life is none of yours now. You are out............accept it, focus on you.

 

I hope this makes sense...but right now I am so emotionally jumbled...one minute I am lucid and accept it for what it was, feel hope that they can repair the marriage and both be happy as they both deserve (I don't generally believe anyone deserves to be unhappy for years on end), and I see this as an opportunity to work on myself.

 

Then I grieve again, I miss him and I am sad. Then I give myself a mental smack and tell myself to find the anger. I've never been good at that - but I know it's one of the stages I am supposed to go through. I need to be angry with myself and with him.

 

Ultimately, you're right - I need to stop thinking entirely about them...and hopefully soon...

 

Look, you're getting the raw, jumbled version of me...and you know what, I will likely come back in a year, re read these or have them thrown in my face in some future post and be wondering where my brain was...does that make me irretrievably broken though?

 

Careful LadyGrey you're sounding like me.

 

The blame shifting is huge. None of this is her fault. She could be Medusa but he's the one who married her, and cheated. No excuses. And I'm sure I've said this before but it's relevant here. If she behaves badly I suspect it's a response to him treating her badly because his emotional energy is elsewhere.

 

In the end only 2 people have crap to own here. And she's not one of them. Not for this.

 

You will never heal and move on of you can't own what you've done.

 

I'm not trying to blame BS. I believe if he was so unhappy he should have left. I did not leave my H for another man...I had tried to leave a few times over the years and it was never for another man. When I had my A several years ago, I was already trying to leave before the A got off the ground. I'll have to tell my story at some point, but maybe when I am clearer - can be more factual rather than emotional about it. Can I just, for now, say - I agree I need to own my actions here? I need to own my wrongs and just learn to be better than all of that?

 

Fallen;

As tacky as this is, I am going to quote myself (could be that I'm getting a little too sauced ergo lazy to whatever) but...

 

..." When you are ready to look at things from a perspective other than your own, and deal w/the reality of the A, I would like to share what I don't yet think you are ready to hear"

 

You are starting to get responses that are a reality of the A that you haven't, in your pain, considered. Well, here they come*

 

Try not to take too much offense but be open to reading them and if need be put some of these harsher truths on the back-burner while you are dealing with the initial blows of getting abandoned by MM then COME BACK and RE-READ them with a clearer head.

 

Hang in & if possible don't even post about the betrayed Wife if you cannot speak positively about her. (I write this partially because it just doesn't make you look good & partially because I'm sauced :D and partially because it really hurts me personally only the last reason doesn't matter)

 

CIH - out

Thank you CIH and I am so so sorry if I've said anything offensive. I truly wasn't trying to speak negatively about her - I don't feel negatively towards her. I guess for me it's a matter of admitting that we all have our faults...she didn't deserve to be cheated on though, and I am sorry if I in any way appeared to be trying to diminish the pain she likely feels from the A. I never met her, I don't know her, I honestly have only ever heard their interactions and him talking about her...you're right, I really shouldn't talk about her at all, it is adding insult to injury that I even try...I guess I am trying in many ways to still soften the blows of pain stabbing through me. And later, when I think back on all of this, I imagine I am going to want to knock the "me from now" upside my silly skull.

  • Author
Posted
But, you fell for this guy.

 

You fell for him knowing quite well he is a philanderer. At least the wife found out after the wedding.:laugh:

 

Thank you Pierre - I fell, hook line and sinker. I was vulnerable and honestly thought I was going to be around some selfish arse who I wouldn't really like all that much - which was what I wanted. I let all my guards down. Yes. It was fundamentally stupid.

 

I suspect that if she threw him out you would be his woman. A woman's trash is another woman's treasure.

 

Oh did I mention before dday (which was earlier this week) he was saying once he told her about me that he was going to leave her, get a place, get on his feet, and then after our divorces were final he wanted to properly become engaged and marry me?

 

Do you realize that perhaps she has a lover of her own. Or maybe she does not want to throw away the marriage because she is committed?

 

When I found out that she likely already knew about me that was my first suggestion - she's got someone on the side and it's easier all around this way. As for keeping him out of commitment...well LadyGrey tells me to stop pondering their situation - but if I do I will throw that in there and try to be more positive about it...it could be.

 

I suggest you get over this guy ASAP and stop rationalizing why he decided to stay with her. In the end he decided to stay married.

 

Trying. Thank you. I feel awful. I'm on such a roller coaster

 

 

Everybody wants to be loved, but not everybody says "I want to be loved". Those that want to be loved end up unhappy. The love you receive is nice, but you should be very happy on your own. This desperate need to find any guy, whomever to give you sex is band aid for your low self esteem. People with good self esteem don't say "I want to be loved". If they get loved that is great, but it is not the most important thing for them.

 

 

 

You need to be alone for a couple of years and learn how to be happy on your own. This yearn to be love is a sign of low self esteem and you are prime target for players and cheaters. You will end up in square one again because the men you seek are identical to the man that failed you in the past.

 

I do have low self esteem. xMM said he didn't understand why, when he told me I was beautiful and oh so special I got this look on my face like I didn't believe it myself. This is my fault. I am not sure how to fix it. It is years in the making...I can cite off the various reasons I think maybe lie behind it - alcoholic abusive father, being raped as a young teen and then not properly dealing with the emotional turmoil that created, marrying a man who took every vulnerability and used it against me within weeks of being married (i.e. I said "never call me worthless or a POS - my ex bil did that to my sister and I just can't imagine someone you love saying that to you" and then our very next fight he called me both of those things and continued to for at least the first 8yrs of marriage). All these things can be contributing factors - but the bottom line is that I need to deal with all of it and find a way not to let it be a crutch...So yeah, this time around I guess self esteem first, sex life sometime after that?

  • Author
Posted
I agree with this. (Which, OP - given the source and our history - is in and of itself, quite a feat)

 

I am not going to be as nice and politically correct as LadyGrey and others here. This is not news to you. Clearly, you have had A's multiple times before and you really just don't care, except to justify your behavior.

 

I believe some people are fixable and can learn from their mistakes, but I don't believe, from your posts now and your track record before, that you are one of those people. You just want sympathy for getting messed up in an A with a MM that you should have known better than to involve yourself with.

 

I hope you get therapy.

 

I hope to hell you're wrong about me not being fixable. And therapy is a plan, once the medical kicks in...I decided to get it the moment H left. I never said I wasn't messed up with lot's of things to fix...but I really hope I'm not unfix able.

 

You're going to think this is harsh but it is actually a truth you need to face if you want to move on.

 

If you were just looking for sex then accepting that from a Mm is just heartless. There's no defense to that. Stabbing another woman for a bit of fun is pretty much the worst motivation or an affair and shows a character that needs a LOT of work.

 

Looking for a relationship- well at least you're invested not just using her marriage. But why look for love from someone incapable of loving? By definition a MM who cheats is showing you want he does with love. He chews it up and spits it out. Seems a very bad bet to me on top of stabbing a stranger in the back.

 

I think you need to delve into which of these applies and how to make it not apply to you.

 

Under the circumstanced with which we met, I can honestly say I didn't even think of her. That may sound heartless, but as I said before - I didn't want a relationship. I didn't want to know about her, if they were together or separated or anything at all. I didn't ask a lot of questions. Maybe this is a huge character flaw on my part - ok no maybe about it, it is, hopefully *was*, but she never entered my brain until a relationship was already forming. At that point I grew a conscience very quickly and told him this couldn't last long because it wouldn't take long for me to realize just how personal it would be for her if and when she ever found out. The entire A lasted less than two months from our first conversation to our last. Whirlwind of vulnerability and realllllllllllllly bad judgement.

 

For the OP, I really think you need to own your actions but I do see hope for change. Unfortunately there is always the legacy. Which is why it's true that prevention is better than cure.

 

I am trying...I just need to see past the pain...and yes, prevention is better, hopefully what I'll be smarter about in the future....

Posted
Thank you Pierre - I fell, hook line and sinker. I was vulnerable and honestly thought I was going to be around some selfish arse who I wouldn't really like all that much - which was what I wanted. I let all my guards down. Yes. It was fundamentally stupid.

 

 

 

 

I can pick up a woman with low self esteem a mile away. A woman medicates her low self esteem with external validation. YOu had no intention to have a relationship, but MOM filled all your needs and you immediately fell for him. It is a precarious state because any clever heartless man that can recognize women like you will take advantage of the situation.

 

Oh did I mention before dday (which was earlier this week) he was saying once he told her about me that he was going to leave her, get a place, get on his feet, and then after our divorces were final he wanted to properly become engaged and marry me?

 

And I am certain you bought ALL of it. These MOMs like to say ILY right away and they make HUGE plans in the air. It is all designed to impress the woman in need of external validation.

 

 

 

I do have low self esteem. xMM said he didn't understand why, when he told me I was beautiful and oh so special I got this look on my face like I didn't believe it myself.

 

That is how you get women with low self esteem to put out. A woman with high self esteem does not need that and will pick a man based on other qualifications. OTOH, women with low self esteem will often drift from loser to loser because these are the men that know how to tweak women that need validation.

 

This is my fault. I am not sure how to fix it. It is years in the making...I can cite off the various reasons I think maybe lie behind it - alcoholic abusive father, being raped as a young teen and then not properly dealing with the emotional turmoil that created, marrying a man who took every vulnerability and used it against me within weeks of being married (i.e. I said "never call me worthless or a POS - my ex bil did that to my sister and I just can't imagine someone you love saying that to you" and then our very next fight he called me both of those things and continued to for at least the first 8yrs of marriage). All these things can be contributing factors - but the bottom line is that I need to deal with all of it and find a way not to let it be a crutch...So yeah, this time around I guess self esteem first, sex life sometime after that?

 

You need to be single for a whole and seek IC. Otherwise, you will repeat the same pattern over and over again.

  • Author
Posted
I will never understand not thinking of her. Especially of you've done this before and you're not a child. I didn't think of his wife when I was first tempted but we were 22. We knew nothing. And I still couldn't do it even though I knew her and disliked her.

 

But I am glad to see you retract a little of the mighty unfair thigs you have said. Perhaps come back when you are calmer and see why I'm not the only one who feels you are blaming her and that's just not on.

 

You have a long road to walk. For one I'd be moving house.

 

I'm not saying it's ok that I didn't think of her, just that I didn't...and honestly, the relationship was juvenile - we behaved like hormone enraged teenagers. Generally speaking I am not one who likes drama or secrets and this relationship was both. I honestly don't think there was much forethought into many of the things there should've been. However, here's a place we may differ - if I know someone, even if I don't like them, it's harder for me to do something I know will come around and actually cause them harm or emotional pain. If I don't know someone then evidently I am able to not think of them as quickly...though as I said, I did after a bit and it did really bother me. Still doesn't fix it...

 

When you say moving house - do you mean moving to a new town or something? If so that's not necessary - he lives a little more than 30 min away in a town I'd never been to before meeting him and doubt I'll return to much after...

  • Author
Posted
I can pick up a woman with low self esteem a mile away. A woman medicates her low self esteem with external validation. YOu had no intention to have a relationship, but MOM filled all your needs and you immediately fell for him. It is a precarious state because any clever heartless man that can recognize women like you will take advantage of the situation.

 

And I am certain you bought ALL of it. These MOMs like to say ILY right away and they make HUGE plans in the air. It is all designed to impress the woman in need of external validation.

 

So you think he was more deliberate and basically just toying with me?

 

 

 

That is how you get women with low self esteem to put out. A woman with high self esteem does not need that and will pick a man based on other qualifications. OTOH, women with low self esteem will often drift from loser to loser because these are the men that know how to tweak women that need validation.

 

 

 

You need to be single for a whole and seek IC. Otherwise, you will repeat the same pattern over and over again.

 

Since we met with the intention of fwb, he didn't need to pull the flattery card to get laid...I was actually intending to use him for sexual needs...kinda figured if men could do it, why not women. He didn't start in on any of that stuff until a week or so into the relationship - we had already met a few times and then suddenly he brought me earrings and started talking about how there's "something about me" he couldn't quite figure out.

 

Yes, I agree I need some IC and need to figure some stuff out...cause this ride was insane. And I already figured I'd need IC just to understand the nuances of my M...so this just adds to it. I'm new to the area I am in and getting established still, as soon as I have medical (which should be kicking in soon) I plan to get on that.

Posted
So you think he was more deliberate and basically just toying with me?

 

 

No, it was not deliberate. Most of these cheating MMs are just looking for external validation. IN this regard they are no different than you. They find women that respond to the adulation and the flattery. And if the woman responds in a very positive manner the cheating MM gets the validation he wants. You will find that cheating MM put women in a pedestal right away and immediately say ILY and make plans for the future. It is all a fantasy game inside the affair bubble and the OW falls for it and the cheating MM starts to believe his own bull$hit.

 

The cheating MM tells the OW he loves her, but this is love in the affair bubble where everything is possible. Then on d-day the cheating MM throws the OW under the bus and goes back to his wife. The affair love only works within the affair compartment.

 

The wife has no special powers or ropes to keep these men home.

  • Like 2
  • Author
Posted
No, it was not deliberate. Most of these cheating MMs are just looking for external validation. IN this regard they are no different than you. They find women that respond to the adulation and the flattery. And if the woman responds in a very positive manner the cheating MM gets the validation he wants. You will find that cheating MM put women in a pedestal right away and immediately say ILY and make plans for the future. It is all a fantasy game inside the affair bubble and the OW falls for it and the cheating MM starts to believe his own bull$hit.

 

The cheating MM tells the OW he loves her, but this is love in the affair bubble where everything is possible. Then on d-day the cheating MM throws the OW under the bus and goes back to his wife. The affair love only works within the affair compartment.

 

The wife has no special powers or ropes to keep these men home.

 

I think this was one of the most concise explanations for something...thank you Pierre. I didn't think she had any "power" over him - staying or leaving is entirely his choice. If things are that bad then he needs to find a way to leave.

I know I'm the pot calling the kettle black - I am no shining example. I have turned to affairs to assist my leaving my H, as an emotional band aid. I will give this weak justification that I put into motion leaving him before I entered into any A's, however that doesn't make them any better...I'll say this time is different in that my H knows about xMM and I know about the little fling he just had (I think is still having but I don't need details). We're on good terms this time, and for that I am grateful, as he can tend to be vindictive...but he's going to IC and we both know we have long roads ahead of us for self improvement. He was abusive, yet I was an enabler...

 

I know it maybe doesn't seem this way - but I really do try to own my actions, learn from them...sometimes I think maybe I just have a really super thick skull and it takes a few bashings to get it??

Posted
I will never understand not thinking of her. Especially of you've done this before and you're not a child. I didn't think of his wife when I was first tempted but we were 22. We knew nothing. And I still couldn't do it even though I knew her and disliked her.

 

But I am glad to see you retract a little of the mighty unfair thigs you have said. Perhaps come back when you are calmer and see why I'm not the only one who feels you are blaming her and that's just not on.

 

You have a long road to walk. For one I'd be moving house.

 

WWWHHHHAAAAA!?! You now have been an OW!?! Well slap my head and call me Sally. What an amazingly . . . colorful life you lead. Amazing how many affairs have been around your life. Are you from Peyton's Place by chance?

Posted
WWWHHHHAAAAA!?! You now have been an OW!?! Well slap my head and call me Sally. What an amazingly . . . colorful life you lead. Amazing how many affairs have been around your life. Are you from Peyton's Place by chance?

 

I think it happens to most of us. I never had a PA in my prior marriage, but had countless of office wives. I always thought about the the consequences of a PA and the harm it could do to the betrayed H. In other words I was unable to go into "ignore mode" to proceed. Interestingly my concern was with the harm to the potential betrayed H. I never thought about my wife.:cool:

Posted
No GOtit I said I was tempted not that I had an affair. I had integrity and I truly loved him so I did not want to destroy his character either, or be part of that. I knew his partner and disliked her for her bad behavior to me. Yet I did not have an affair.

 

Umm, how do you love someone without being at least in an EA? If you didn't cross any boundaries how on earth did you fall in love. Sorry I smell some BS here.

 

And like you stated before, even a 18 year old is an adult and should know better so you at 22 y.o really should have known better.

 

Really? Disliked his spouse but idolized him. Sounds familiar to the OW you bash on here constantly.

 

It seems some can talk the walk but can't walk the walk. How . . . . expected and trite. :rolleyes:

  • Like 2
Posted
Umm, how do you love someone without being at least in an EA? If you didn't cross any boundaries how on earth did you fall in love. Sorry I smell some BS here.

 

And like you stated before, even a 18 year old is an adult and should know better so you at 22 y.o really should have known better.

 

Really? Disliked his spouse but idolized him. Sounds familiar to the OW you bash on here constantly.

 

It seems some can talk the walk but can't walk the walk. How . . . . expected and trite. :rolleyes:

 

My thoughts exactly! An EA is just as bad, if not worse IMHO.

 

My other question is how can someone feel they have the "power" to destroy someone's character? No one has that power! To think you can solely effect someone's outcome is very ego driven. It shows a lack of respect and faith that people can figure out their lives on their own. Sheesh

  • Like 2
  • Author
Posted

When it comes to these A's the thing of it is - we are each responsible for our own actions. I know I am swinging to every side of the fence depending on the severity of my pain at the moment or the level of my lucidity...for this moment I am ok though and able to think a little clearly...in five minutes?? The stabbing may return to my heart and the tightness may make me short of breath.....

 

Ok, having given my prejustification for anything I say to the contrary when I am not lucid....

 

My character is defined by my actions. xMM by his. etc etc etc. This includes his W. When it comes to the affair and all things surrounding it - it's all on he and I. Whatever problems they had before he made the decision to step out - those are the problems they each hold responsibility for as individuals and as a couple. And as was pointed out to me - since I don't have both sides of the story - I can't even begin to speculate about that. I can only draw from my own experience in my M. The method I chose for coping was the polar opposite of the correct method...same goes for OM and anyone else who has an A instead of facing their problems in their M. Having a chance to have an A and being the one to step away speaks volumes for you and your personal strength and conviction - and that's great, but it by no means says you're eternally immune to having an A. My first A - NO ONE would have believed I was capable of stepping out on my H. Not him, not me, not any of our friends...my sister was rendered speechless...it was my own inability to recognize my vulnerability back then that left me with my guards down. And since that event I have struggled beyond belief with the fall out to my self esteem and core sense of self. I just have to believe I am not irretrievably broken by my mistakes and there's hope that I can learn and be a better person for all of it and quit making the same damned mistakes over and over again...

 

It's so hard when you're going through something like this to see it clearly until you're on the other side of it...

Posted

Spice;

I don't think any person (not even Wonder Woman & her magic "lasso) can force another to destroy his character but they can certainly enable it* or be party to it.

  • Like 3
Posted
Spice;

I don't think any person (not even Wonder Woman & her magic "lasso) can force another to destroy his character but they can certainly enable it* or be party to it.

 

Yes, one person can not make or break another's character. It is all on each individual. Starting to remind me of the after school specials on peer pressure. :laugh:

  • Author
Posted

Apologize to his W. Not like, in person. Oh I can imagine how awful it would be to track her down and run up to her - armed with only a picture from Facebook or something - But the more I have had time to think about all of this...no matter which way I turn it over in my brain...I've done wrong to her. I was thinking something...a small handwritten letter just saying that I know I cannot repair the damage I was party to...that I cannot take away the pain I helped cause...but that I recognize my part in the whole thing and for it I'm sorry?? I mean is that just adding insult to injury??

Posted

Fallen Petals;

Remember on like page one or two I wrote ...when you are able to see the reality of the A more clearly...?

Sweet lady, you are There!!:D

 

Not because you are remorseful, sorry, regretful. You may or may Not be and that's Not for anyone to judge but you* What I'm talking about is the pain you caused in playing your part in this A.

 

You are Sorry for causing devestation to another human being through your actions and i think that's huge!!

 

I would have loved a sincere, simple, heartfelt apology.

Did I get it? No. Grrrr would I have accepted it? Yes! I forgave her before she even asked*

 

But what she wrote was NO apology or it was the cruelest apology ever. So, if you do send something, just make sure you are sincere otherwise it will do more harm than good to both of you.

My heart is w/you**

  • Like 1
Posted
Apologize to his W. Not like, in person. Oh I can imagine how awful it would be to track her down and run up to her - armed with only a picture from Facebook or something - But the more I have had time to think about all of this...no matter which way I turn it over in my brain...I've done wrong to her. I was thinking something...a small handwritten letter just saying that I know I cannot repair the damage I was party to...that I cannot take away the pain I helped cause...but that I recognize my part in the whole thing and for it I'm sorry?? I mean is that just adding insult to injury??

 

Very nice FP. This will make you a whole person again and will do wonders for your self esteem.

 

The best way to a healthy self esteem is to always to the right thing. In that manner you have nothing to hide and can be proud of yourself.

  • Like 1
Posted
Fallen Petals;

Remember on like page one or two I wrote ...when you are able to see the reality of the A more clearly...?

Sweet lady, you are There!!:D

 

Not because you are remorseful, sorry, regretful. You may or may Not be and that's Not for anyone to judge but you* What I'm talking about is the pain you caused in playing your part in this A.

 

You are Sorry for causing devestation to another human being through your actions and i think that's huge!!

 

I would have loved a sincere, simple, heartfelt apology.

Did I get it? No. Grrrr would I have accepted it? Yes! I forgave her before she even asked*

 

But what she wrote was NO apology or it was the cruelest apology ever. So, if you do send something, just make sure you are sincere otherwise it will do more harm than good to both of you.

My heart is w/you**

 

Would you have believed it? I have seen on infidelity sites where the BS does receive a call, note, etc. and ends up ripping it apart and does not believe that it was sincere and/or heartfelt. If it is possible, how should it be written to be believed?

Posted
Would you have believed it? I have seen on infidelity sites where the BS does receive a call, note, etc. and ends up ripping it apart and does not believe that it was sincere and/or heartfelt. If it is possible, how should it be written to be believed?

 

Whether the apology is seen as genuine or not is a moot point. If FP is sincere that is all that matters.

  • Like 3
Posted

Got it;

VERY good question. Let me think, my perfect apology letter from a woman who slept w/my. husband...

 

Dear CIH,

IT is w/the revelation of what my actions were that I write this letter. No amount of excuses can excuse the pain of what I've done to you and your family. I have looked inward and own my part in causing you pain.

I cannot expect your forgiveness but I must for myself & hopefully in time for you offer my deepest apologies for causing you and your family pain.

There is SO much I wish I could tell you, share w/you but this is not about me and my perspective. It is about what I've done to cause you such great pain.

You will Not hear from me again. I know I cannot change the present & ease your suffering but I hope, in my absence, you heal.

Again, I am Sorry,

OW

×
×
  • Create New...