fortyninethousand322 Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 It gets disheartening. I know it doesn't seem like it for you but it gets a bit much when you receive a new message and you just think 'please let it be someone great, please let it be someone great, please let it be someone great... ah, it's a creep' I used to think like you and used to word my profile in a way that would allow me to cast my net wide and encourage guys to contact me... until I realised quality control was key Once I got more specific with my profile, contact dropped Especially once I stopped showing skin (not that I showed that much in the first place anyway) Hmm, well I guess it's one of those "which hurts more: going through labor or getting kicked in the balls" kind of conundrums. Neither of us will ever know which is worse since we'll never experience both and be able to compare.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 It gets depressing after a while. It really got to me when I logged into POF and found that I'd been favourited by a 62 year old man (just a few years younger than my dad). I was 36 at the time. It gets depressing for me because I'll message a girl who has a lot in common with me (books, favorite sports teams, whatever) I'll take my time carefully crafting an original and interesting message and I'll never hear from them. Rinse and repeat over and over. Gets pretty demoralizing. Especially when you haven't been on a date in 2 years. I've even taken to messaging older women with no luck. 1
Emilia Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 I've even taken to messaging older women with no luck. Most of us older know that a lot of younger guys will message us because they aren't getting success with their own age group. the only thing you will get for that is contempt. 2
BetheButterfly Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Interesting, I think it all is related to luck too. A friend of mine was on eHarmony for a few months and didn't find anyone she liked...The first guy she met through POF is now her husband. What a coincidence. This happened to me too. My Mom paid for me for a time on eharmony. I didn't click with anybody they matched me up with at all. The first guy and only guy I met through POF is my husband. I think people can find a loving relationship pretty much anywhere, and eharmony is a good site too. it's not its fault that my husband wasn't on that site. I am so glad that we met though!!! We lived in separate states and even though it's a "small world" and it's possible we could have met in another way, I do believe that meeting online was fine and "meant to be!" Yes, I'm a romantic. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Most of us older know that a lot of younger guys will message us because they aren't getting success with their own age group. the only thing you will get for that is contempt. No, I mean I'm hoping older women will be more mature and have more in common with me. That's what I mean. Not that older women will be more desperate. My plan for desperate women is to make a bunch of money and date a single mother when I get to be 35 or so. If I'm still in the same predicament as today.
BetheButterfly Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 E-Harmony told me that I couldn't be matched, when I took their test at the age of 29. I was only taking the test at the time, and not looking for anyone, but it still surprised me. I wouldn't sweat it. The people the Eharmony program matched with me were not who I would match myself with, though they are great men I'm sure. That's one thing I appreciated about POF... I looked and found a person who I personally "match" with. No machine/program did that for me. 1
TheBigQuestion Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) I think what a man makes of himself is pretty much part of who he is. I understand what you are saying but it is also true that a man's social status is a good indicator of whether he is smart, intelligent, disciplined or whether he is a layabout dope smoker. A lot of guys are after status too it's just that they measure it differently. You could argue by the same token that men are shallow because they care whether women are fat or not, while I think it's only partly about looks and that it is also about a judgement on a woman's character. It depends on how much you wish to twist other people's intentions I suppose. No one is denying that men will to some extent or another look at a woman's looks as a status symbol. What Leisureguy is saying is that women are far more likely to deny that they care very much about a man's utility to her in largely superficial ways. Instead they always over-emphasize their emotional, lovey-dovey side to the point where they blind themselves to the realities of their own dating choices. A woman's assertion that she would "love her man even if he was a janitor" rings hollow when she's dating (or married to) someone who makes twice as much or more as she does. Hell, I'd wager that most of the women who post on LS who scream things like that from the proverbial rooftops are involved with a guy who out-earns her by far. Yes, men are (generally) horny bastards who don't really want to be seen in public with conventionally unattractive women. Women will (generally) be hypergamous. The issue is that the former is common knowledge and pointing it out isn't considered "hateful" or "offensive" by society. The latter is something few women admit with words but many women demonstrate with actions. Even using the word "hypergamy" here is just begging for a brigade of self-righteous comments accusing you of "being a player" or "hating women." I don't have a problem with dealing with certain realities about relationships, but I do have a problem when one group of people (in this case, women) are generally less honest and straightforward in the discourse. Edited February 6, 2013 by TheBigQuestion
Emilia Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 No one is denying that men will to some extent or another look at a woman's looks as a status symbol. What Leisureguy is saying is that women are far more likely to deny that they care very much about a man's utility to her in largely superficial ways. Instead they always over-emphasize their emotional, lovey-dovey side to the point where they blind themselves to the realities of their own dating choices. A woman's assertion that she would "love her man even if he was a janitor" rings hollow when she's dating (or married to) someone who makes twice as much or more as she does. Hell, I'd wager that most of the women who post on LS who scream things like that from the proverbial rooftops are involved with a guy who out-earns her by far. Yes, men are (generally) horny bastards who don't really want to be seen in public with conventionally unattractive women. Women will (generally) be hypergamous. The issue is that the former is common knowledge and pointing it out isn't considered "hateful" or "offensive" by society. The latter is something few women admit with words but many women demonstrate with actions. .. and you know such a vast number of men and women that your personal experiences underline the above as fact and you don't rely on anecdotal evidence at all? Both sexes can be shallow/judgemental/opinionated/etc, hardly news. A lot of women would feel like complete losers if they said they would date a janitor - myself included. I don't want to date guys who make nothing of themselves and there would be plenty of opportunities to do so. A lot of men wouldn't date overweight women. There are plenty of us in both sexes who admit to this. Not really sure whether you or Leisureguy are in the position to say so otherwise? 1
pbjbear Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) No one is denying that men will to some extent or another look at a woman's looks as a status symbol. What Leisureguy is saying is that women are far more likely to deny that they care very much about a man's utility to her in largely superficial ways. Instead they always over-emphasize their emotional, lovey-dovey side to the point where they blind themselves to the realities of their own dating choices. A woman's assertion that she would "love her man even if he was a janitor" rings hollow when she's dating (or married to) someone who makes twice as much or more as she does. Hell, I'd wager that most of the women who post on LS who scream things like that from the proverbial rooftops are involved with a guy who out-earns her by far. Yes, men are (generally) horny bastards who don't really want to be seen in public with conventionally unattractive women. Women will (generally) be hypergamous. The issue is that the former is common knowledge and pointing it out isn't considered "hateful" or "offensive" by society. The latter is something few women admit with words but many women demonstrate with actions. Even using the word "hypergamy" here is just begging for a brigade of self-righteous comments accusing you of "being a player" or "hating women." I don't have a problem with dealing with certain realities about relationships, but I do have a problem when one group of people (in this case, women) are generally less honest and straightforward in the discourse. I live in NYC. I dont go for super rich, Wallstreet types of men. Most of the men I dated made the same amount of money as me. Some made slightly less, some slightly more. Not a single one made twice as much as me. The guy I have probably liked the most in my entire life was unemployed half the time we dated. I pay for myself on dates unless a guy throws a hissy fit about it. Go for more independent women Men go for women for their looks, women go for men for their money is a big generalization but there certainly is truth to it. Tell me then, why do men who only date hot women and see them as sex objects get pissy if one of these girls doesnt like the fact he doesnt make alot of $? I find most men tell me I should accept that they are horny shallow pricks but then in the next breath they say golddiggers are scum...my conclusion is that men are selfish and anything that goes against their needs and affects their ability to meet them is deemed inappropriate If you wanna agree youre shallow by evolution that is fine. My issue is those same men wont let women use evolution as an argument as well....selfishness. Cant have it both ways. Women are the more evolved sex. We have come further in overcoming our biological tendencies. In my extended family, every woman is expected to work. If not, youre lazy. No women in my family use men to be financially dependent on them. This is becoming less and less true as our society is now made up more and more of working women. In 100 years probably all women will be expected to work unless their husband is really rich. Yet boyfriends and husbands STILL see their S.O's first as a sex object and second as a human being, then use the "its in my nature" excuse for it Edited February 6, 2013 by pbjbear
TheBigQuestion Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 .. and you know such a vast number of men and women that your personal experiences underline the above as fact and you don't rely on anecdotal evidence at all? Both sexes can be shallow/judgemental/opinionated/etc, hardly news. A lot of women would feel like complete losers if they said they would date a janitor - myself included. I don't want to date guys who make nothing of themselves and there would be plenty of opportunities to do so. A lot of men wouldn't date overweight women. There are plenty of us in both sexes who admit to this. Not really sure whether you or Leisureguy are in the position to say so otherwise? Yes, experience has taught me that men are more likely to be honest about their shallowness than women are. There may be some empirical backing. Who knows? Furthermore, virtually all discussions on LS regarding tendencies of certain demographics (men, women, men from X part of the world, women from Y part of the world) are based primarily on anecdotal evidence. Expecting me to qualify everything I say with something more than anecdotal evidence would be holding me to a standard rarely satisfied by anyone who posts here.
pbjbear Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 This thread really just affirms something I have realized slowly over the past year. Men are honest about being shallow and us women are expected to deal with it. Yet, us women arent supposed to be shallow. Why do shallow men expect to date unshallow women? Entitlement, selfishness Really? If youre shallow, I can be shallow. Get over it 2
TheBigQuestion Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 I live in NYC. I dont go for super rich, Wallstreet types of men. Most of the men I dated made the same amount of money as me. Some made slightly less, some slightly more. Not a single one made twice as much as me. The guy I have probably liked the most in my entire life was unemployed half the time we dated. I pay for myself on dates unless a guy throws a hissy fit about it. Go for more independent women Men go for women for their looks, women go for men for their money is a big generalization but there certainly is truth to it. Tell me then, why do men who only date hot women and see them as sex objects get pissy if one of these girls doesnt like the fact he doesnt make alot of $? I find most men tell me I should accept that they are horny shallow pricks but then in the next breath they say golddiggers are scum...my conclusion is that men are selfish and anything that goes against their needs and affects their ability to meet them is deemed inappropriate If you wanna agree youre shallow by evolution that is fine. My issue is those same men wont let women use evolution as an argument as well....selfishness. Cant have it both ways. Women are the more evolved sex. We have come further in overcoming our biological tendencies. In my extended family, every woman is expected to work. If not, youre lazy. No women in my family use men to be financially dependent on them. This is becoming less and less true as our society is now made up more and more of working women. In 100 years probably all women will be expected to work unless their husband is really rich. Yet boyfriends and husbands STILL see their S.O's first as a sex object and second as a human being, then use the "its in my nature" excuse for it You don't go for Wall Street-type men. Great. Would you prefer a medal or a cookie? Go for more independent women? I've been in a relationship for 2+ years, but thanks for the tip. The rest of your post is largely irrelevant sexist rambling. My post was about a comparative lack of honesty that one gender engages in when discussing what they desire in a mate.
Anela Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 It gets depressing for me because I'll message a girl who has a lot in common with me (books, favorite sports teams, whatever) I'll take my time carefully crafting an original and interesting message and I'll never hear from them. Rinse and repeat over and over. Gets pretty demoralizing. Especially when you haven't been on a date in 2 years. I've even taken to messaging older women with no luck. Same deal here, with men my age that I was interested in - men I thought would be nice to spend time with, and they weren't that "hot", they just had something that I liked about them from their profile and pics. No response. I should have just written, "hey sexy".
Emilia Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 This thread really just affirms something I have realized slowly over the past year. Men are honest about being shallow and us women are expected to deal with it. Yet, us women arent supposed to be shallow. Why do shallow men expect to date unshallow women? Entitlement, selfishness Really? If youre shallow, I can be shallow. Get over it Because a lot of guys who post here and on forums like this - and I don't think they are the majority of men by any means - don't like that women have options. They would love us to be subjugated. That would be their ideal world. Otherwise why would they be so concerned by what SOME women whom they don't even know think?
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 This thread really just affirms something I have realized slowly over the past year. Men are honest about being shallow and us women are expected to deal with it. Yet, us women arent supposed to be shallow. Why do shallow men expect to date unshallow women? Entitlement, selfishness Really? If youre shallow, I can be shallow. Get over it Define "shallow".
TheBigQuestion Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 This thread really just affirms something I have realized slowly over the past year. Men are honest about being shallow and us women are expected to deal with it. Yet, us women arent supposed to be shallow. Why do shallow men expect to date unshallow women? Entitlement, selfishness Really? If youre shallow, I can be shallow. Get over it Uh, no. I'm not of the opinion that women should be expected to NOT be shallow. I made that explicit in my first post in this thread. Again, this is about being forthcoming about said shallowness.
Anela Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Same deal here, with men my age that I was interested in - men I thought would be nice to spend time with, and they weren't that "hot", they just had something that I liked about them from their profile and pics. No response. I should have just written, "hey sexy". Also, being prettier and five/ten years younger, would have helped a lot. Most of them "prefer someone younger".
veggirl Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 yeah pbj what do you mean by shallow? wanting an attractive partner? if so, I am as shallow as the guys I guess.
TheBigQuestion Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Additionally, women are really not just expected to "deal with" mens' shallowness. Men are constantly derided by women for being "pigs," for "thinking with their small head," for "only going after the hot girl with the DD breasts and the spray tan," and so forth. Such claims are made with more frequency and are more socially acceptable than pointing out that women are by and large hypergamous.
pbjbear Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Additionally, women are really not just expected to "deal with" mens' shallowness. Men are constantly derided by women for being "pigs," for "thinking with their small head," for "only going after the hot girl with the DD breasts and the spray tan," and so forth. Such claims are made with more frequency and are more socially acceptable than pointing out that women are by and large hypergamous. I dont know many men that are derided for that in real life other than by the women they are dating and the women's close social circle. There are far more phrases that exist that excuse a man's behavior that you described. So many versions of "boys will be boys" and "he is just being a guy" Not saying women dont do the same behavior, but there are no excusatory phrases we can use
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 yeah pbj what do you mean by shallow? wanting an attractive partner? if so, I am as shallow as the guys I guess. For that matter what does "attractive" mean? I've known some very aesthetically pretty women who turned me off with their unattractive personalities. Sometimes that meant they were just horrible people, but other times it just mean that their personalities were unattractive to me.
veggirl Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 For that matter what does "attractive" mean? I've known some very aesthetically pretty women who turned me off with their unattractive personalities. Sometimes that meant they were just horrible people, but other times it just mean that their personalities were unattractive to me. Well I mean attractive *to me* which includes physically and mentally. I've certainly met men who are hot to look at but nothing special personality wise and I was never interested in them. I think thats what most people mean by attractive. I don't think even the most "shallow" person is gonna date someone whose personality totally SUCKS just cause they are sexy.
pbjbear Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Well I mean attractive *to me* which includes physically and mentally. I've certainly met men who are hot to look at but nothing special personality wise and I was never interested in them. I think thats what most people mean by attractive. I don't think even the most "shallow" person is gonna date someone whose personality totally SUCKS just cause they are sexy. I know guys that do that...for short term dating.
kaylan Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 I live in NYC. I dont go for super rich, Wallstreet types of men. Most of the men I dated made the same amount of money as me. Some made slightly less, some slightly more. Not a single one made twice as much as me. The guy I have probably liked the most in my entire life was unemployed half the time we dated. I pay for myself on dates unless a guy throws a hissy fit about it. Go for more independent women Men go for women for their looks, women go for men for their money is a big generalization but there certainly is truth to it. Tell me then, why do men who only date hot women and see them as sex objects get pissy if one of these girls doesnt like the fact he doesnt make alot of $? I find most men tell me I should accept that they are horny shallow pricks but then in the next breath they say golddiggers are scum...my conclusion is that men are selfish and anything that goes against their needs and affects their ability to meet them is deemed inappropriate If you wanna agree youre shallow by evolution that is fine. My issue is those same men wont let women use evolution as an argument as well....selfishness. Cant have it both ways. Women are the more evolved sex. We have come further in overcoming our biological tendencies. In my extended family, every woman is expected to work. If not, youre lazy. No women in my family use men to be financially dependent on them. This is becoming less and less true as our society is now made up more and more of working women. In 100 years probably all women will be expected to work unless their husband is really rich. Yet boyfriends and husbands STILL see their S.O's first as a sex object and second as a human being, then use the "its in my nature" excuse for it :laugh::lmao::lmao: My experiences tell me this is patently FALSE. Women are as largely emotional and unable to control their urges as men are.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 I have never understood why it would be hard for women to do OLD. I'm not saying it isn't hard, I'm just saying I don't understand why it would be. The biggest complaint I always here is that guys always have pictures of themselves standing in a mirror with their shirts off, guys will write very sexual messages, or will write messages that do not suggest that they had read her profile. I don't do any of those things and my reply rate is like 2% and I almost never get a first message from a woman. There have to be more men like me on these sites who get ignored entirely despite being half decent people. I just don't understand what's so hard about being a woman on OLD. All things are relative to the person's own experiences. You might find it difficult to make a six figure salary, but for someone born with billions they may find it just as difficult to find a way to spend it.
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