Would you change your mind on the affair?

[underwater2010]

And what is the purpose? Shaming? In my case, what is it going to hurt? It's not going to impact me at all.

Wouldn't it make more sense then to just bring back stockades? This seems like such a waste of time to me and many others.

I suppose fo rthose that are cheating themselves perhaps there would be some repercussions but those that don't bother to hide it this just seems...I don't even know. Wasteful.

Of time, money and resources for eveyrone involved.

I appreciate your honesty on the matter...but not many people are as fourthcoming as you are. Most people hide their affairs to everyone but each other and of course the forums.

[Spark1111]

you can alway sue for marital assets spent on an AP because half of the money the WS spends belongs to the spouse.

 

you would do it in civil court and need bank statements, hotel receipts, etc. Not difficult.

 

it may be dismissed as a nuisance suit, but names would be named and people served and embarrassed.

 

If this precedes divorce, then it can be used as a bargaining chip for the BS.

 

If it doesn't, well the cheaters have been named publicly.

 

Two such suits by BS, both emanating from the same state, became national news because the judge ruled in the BS' favor.

 

Alienation of affection may be archaic, but division of marital assets is taken very, very seriously by the courts.

[Got it]

No one is carrying on a lengthy series of lies in a D. Good gawd.

 

Really!?! Tell a number of divorce attorneys that line.

[Got it]

Would I worry? I guess I would have to be in a state that allowed that option first and foremost. And then whether there seemed to be a reasonable ability to use it in the particular situation. With dMM, his wife had a previous affair, which he had evidence of so the premise that they were in a loving marriage and this AP/me was the one that ruined things would have taken a major dent.

 

So, probably not, but I also would not be in another affair again anyways.

[Realist3]

I don't "see the difference", I know people who left their cheating spouse specifically because the threat of disease which can come from extra marital sex affected them.

 

I was six months pregnant getting blood panels to ensure my unborn didn't have

an std from the skank my husband was diddling. It most certainly was paramount in my mind his he didn't care for my and his own child's health when I filed those divorce papers.

 

Sleeping around in the era of aids in a country where a quarter of the population has a disease isn't a joke. It's serious life threatening business and people who don't get this are either ignorant or too obsessed with their genitals to care (which sadly seems to be the norm with cheating folk, perpetually putting their need for sex above the devestation of human beings :::pukes::

 

 

Obviously, I disagree. There was a very lengthy thread over on the Infidelity board about whether a BS can cause a WS to cheat/ is the BS to blame for cheating, or something to that effect. The answer in both the cheating aspect and divorce aspect is the same. NO. People make a decision to cheat and they make the decision to divorce. Can other factors such as a sexless marriage or an affair impact a person's decision making process? Sure. But ultimately the decision is on the person taking the action. They weren't 'made/caused' to do anything by the actions of others.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Realist3

[beenburned]

My D proved adultery and fraud in her divorce.

However, my state does not have A of A laws.

[veryhappy]

Extra approved relationship sex happens in all societies, regardless of the penalties. It happens where women get mutilated or killed too( men as we know tend to just get out rejuvenated, no murder penalty to them).

 

It is silly to assume being sued for alienation of afection would stop many. The concept is also silly. I get being sued for half of the expenses, but find the affection angle mind puzzling as long as we are talking adults.

[LFH]

Extra approved relationship sex happens in all societies, regardless of the penalties. It happens where women get mutilated or killed too( men as we know tend to just get out rejuvenated, no murder penalty to them).

 

It is silly to assume being sued for alienation of afection would stop many. The concept is also silly. I get being sued for half of the expenses, but find the affection angle mind puzzling as long as we are talking adults.

 

Exactly. I don't understand the concept. I've been trying to wrap my head around it since I saw the post to see if there is a part I'm missing and I just don't understand the point.

[Spark1111]

I don't find the law silly at all; in fact, I wish it were more common.

 

People who have never dealt with infidelity as the betrayed just don't understand how deeply the scars run. As someone else said, it's a non-consent issue and should be a crime...the effects are just as deep and long lasting as other non-consent crimes; some even say worse.

 

I find it interesting that some people have no problem deceiving and causing tremendous financial and emotional damage to someone else, yet take issue with the victim having any recourse.

 

Alienation of Affection lawsuits are no more frivolous than someone suing for the return of a gift or stolen money.

 

The law was originally designed to give legal and financial recourse to someone injured by accident and neglect...on the job, driving a car, in a store...and allowed a judge or jury to award greater monetary damages because the injury resulted in the loss of ahem...your affections while injured.

 

The court takes the spouse into consideration in having lost physical intimacy due to no fault of their own.

 

It was, and sometimes still is, used in matters of divorce but not half as much as accidental injury due to neglect.

[ComingInHot]

I took all the evidence I had to an attorney and asked him to tell me what my rights were. This was done at a point where the exOW was harassing me and being out right Really mean and emailing all of the monies she had extracted out of my husband only she worded it, "he wants me more than you because he spent money on me that should have been for you" (with a bunch of smileys after these types of statements.

 

The lawyer was Salivating and stating that not only was there enough here to get over half of the marital assets BUT to sue her for A & A and receive recompense of a monetary value plus more.

 

At the end of the day, I realized no amount of public humiliation, monies from her and my husband would make me feel better. I figured (and correctly) that the only way this OW was going to learn ANYTHING was through the consequences of her own making, not mine.

 

It worked out that I was right. And although I admit I dreamed about it, plotted it all out in my head and spent every last dime of "hers" on imaginary spas and shoes and vacations, I am SO thankful that I didn't do it. I've had enough to deal with and I am, so far, successfully reconciling with my husband*

[Spark1111]

I took all the evidence I had to an attorney and asked him to tell me what my rights were. This was done at a point where the exOW was harassing me and being out right Really mean and emailing all of the monies she had extracted out of my husband only she worded it, "he wants me more than you because he spent money on me that should have been for you" (with a bunch of smileys after these types of statements.

 

The lawyer was Salivating and stating that not only was there enough here to get over half of the marital assets BUT to sue her for A & A and receive recompense of a monetary value plus more.

 

At the end of the day, I realized no amount of public humiliation, monies from her and my husband would make me feel better. I figured (and correctly) that the only way this OW was going to learn ANYTHING was through the consequences of her own making, not mine.

 

It worked out that I was right. And although I admit I dreamed about it, plotted it all out in my head and spent every last dime of "hers" on imaginary spas and shoes and vacations, I am SO thankful that I didn't do it. I've had enough to deal with and I am, so far, successfully reconciling with my husband*

 

hey, me too CIH! I could have done so also and it was a happy revenge fantasy for a long time of mine....

 

but I didn't and I too am happy for taking the high road.

 

lest we forget the fOW in my sitch, she was still hoping for that 5k vacation AFTER they had broken up.

 

imagine that?

[Spark1111]

And what is the purpose? Shaming? In my case, what is it going to hurt? It's not going to impact me at all.

Wouldn't it make more sense then to just bring back stockades? This seems like such a waste of time to me and many others.

I suppose fo rthose that are cheating themselves perhaps there would be some repercussions but those that don't bother to hide it this just seems...I don't even know. Wasteful.

Of time, money and resources for eveyrone involved.

 

Sure, shame works....as does humiliation and revenge at DDay. It's not rational, but it is very, very human to want to inflict on other's what you feel has been inflicted on you.

[Realist3]

People make decisions based on available information. That's WHY cheating is so wretched: because you are denying someone the information they need to fully consent.

 

MM/MW who lie to APs about being single are not giving their APs a real "choice" about the situation.

 

Informed AP/MM/MW who deny the choice to a BS about whether they want to be in an unmonogamous relationship aren't offering a "decision", they are DENYING one.

.

 

Yes, people make decisions on the best available information. But, just because all of the information is not conveyed does to not indicate malice in and of itself. Yes, your particular situation would suggest malice, but that really wasn't what I was discussing.

 

As to lying about being single. I'm not condoning it, but that also does not rise to the level of malice as there cannot be exhibited a direct action of harm. It may be deceptive, and a whole bunch of other adjectives, but it does not rise to the level of intended harm on the other person.

[Got it]

People make decisions based on available information. That's WHY cheating is so wretched: because you are denying someone the information they need to fully consent.

 

MM/MW who lie to APs about being single are not giving their APs a real "choice" about the situation.

 

Informed AP/MM/MW who deny the choice to a BS about whether they want to be in an unmonogamous relationship aren't offering a "decision", they are DENYING one.

 

The law rules all the time that consent is a big factor in determining crime. Knowingly give someone an std and deny them the choice to consent? Crime! Have sex with a willing minor (who can't legally consent), crime! Have sex with an animal or invalid (who can't give consent), crime! Cheating isn't different. If you deny someone consent, you ARE committing a crime.

 

Except unlike all of your examples, it is considered against the law outside of divorce proceedings/it is not seen as a criminal act.

 

So, um, no.

[Got it]

Great observation/question and I think, sadly, the answer is: compassion is a variable depending upon the sins of the perceiver.

 

If I may explain:

 

The only difference between the BS and the unknowing AP is level of investment with the BS in the vast majority of cases having FAR more put into the relationship, and hence should be equal if not more deserving of sympathy.

 

But this forum has many MM/MW and knowing APs that want to deflect the burden of guilt they share in the crime and so they blame the BS.

 

Popular excuses to displace blame are:

"They should know, its their fault for being stupid"

"They aren't good spouses so that's why they are being cheated on."

"They must know but are choosing to ignore it."

"They are only married for financial security."

"It's their spouse's responsibility to keep vows, not *mine*."

"The marriage is only for show/child rearing/appeasing in-laws."

 

On and on the excuses come, but they all are cover ups for the same refusal to accept responsibility for someone aiding to deceive and thus rob another!

 

I disagree, I see very few people blaming the BS here. Now I don't agree with the idea that the line of logic, "it's their spouse's responsibility to keep their vow, not mine" is blaming the BS. How do you figure that?

 

In some cases, some of those may be fact. There are some spouses that do choose to ignore it, we have seen evidence of that. But, from my experience, very few OP say it is the spouse's fault and when they do most people, including other OP jump on them.

 

Maybe the idea that there can be any mitigating circumstances is seen as a very black and white thing. I don't know. Maybe the idea that the BS is culpable for any issues in the marriage is the issue and so discussion of such is seen as blaming the BS.

 

You can have issues that led in the marriage that can be discussed as reasons why the WS was unhappy but that doesn't mean that anyone is saying, then, that it is the BS fault for the affair.

[cocorico]

I disagree, I see very few people blaming the BS here. Now I don't agree with the idea that the line of logic, "it's their spouse's responsibility to keep their vow, not mine" is blaming the BS. How do you figure that?

 

In some cases, some of those may be fact. There are some spouses that do choose to ignore it, we have seen evidence of that. But, from my experience, very few OP say it is the spouse's fault and when they do most people, including other OP jump on them.

 

Maybe the idea that there can be any mitigating circumstances is seen as a very black and white thing. I don't know. Maybe the idea that the BS is culpable for any issues in the marriage is the issue and so discussion of such is seen as blaming the BS.

 

You can have issues that led in the marriage that can be discussed as reasons why the WS was unhappy but that doesn't mean that anyone is saying, then, that it is the BS fault for the affair.

 

Interesting notion, and apologies if it's o/t, but *can* a BS be "to blame" for an A, under any conditions? For example, if the M is abusive? If the "BS" cheated first (the A being a revenge A)? If the M itself is the result of an A, ie the BS demonstrated their willingness to "cheat" (on someone else) and thus demonstrated their own concrete lack of belief in monogamy / fidelity? If the BS denies the WS sex and says in a dismissive way, I don't care where you get it? Etc? Or is hypocrisy fine, as long as it's perpetrated by a BS because that sanctifies them and absolves them of any responsibility for anything?

 

Back on topic, does anyone have the stats on whether there are more / fewer / the same no of As in those backwaters that allow Alienation of Affection lawsuits, compared to places that don't?

[HappyAtLast]

Interesting notion, and apologies if it's o/t, but *can* a BS be "to blame" for an A, under any conditions? For example, if the M is abusive? If the "BS" cheated first (the A being a revenge A)? If the M itself is the result of an A, ie the BS demonstrated their willingness to "cheat" (on someone else) and thus demonstrated their own concrete lack of belief in monogamy / fidelity? If the BS denies the WS sex and says in a dismissive way, I don't care where you get it? Etc? Or is hypocrisy fine, as long as it's perpetrated by a BS because that sanctifies them and absolves them of any responsibility for anything?

 

Back on topic, does anyone have the stats on whether there are more / fewer / the same no of As in those backwaters that allow Alienation of Affection lawsuits, compared to places that don't?

 

In my opinion no. A betrayed spouse can never be blamed for their spouse cheating. The BS can have done things wrong in the marriage, cheating, withholding intimacy, etc but the decision to cheat rests solely on the cheater. They could have chosen to handle marital issues in a manner that did not involve the breaking of one's marital vows.

 

Now, had the betrayed spouse done things wrong in the marriage, as above, they certainly should expect consequences for said behavior, such as a request for a counseling, a change in behavior, divorce, or open marriage or something. But the blame for breaking of one's marital vows belongs strictly on the shoulders of the one who broke them.

[Got it]

I am not good with absolutes so I can't say. But I am hard pressed to say that they are. There are always other options one can choose. I don't think my ex husband was at fault for my decision to have an affair. I easily could have chosen to wait since I was already planning on leaving but decided not to.

 

And in dMM's case, yes she cheated on him but that doesn't mean that he doesn't own that he decided to cheat as well. I think it is a mitigating circumstance on the outrage considered reasonable when you find out the goose followed the gander but that is just my side, unsolicited opinion and beared no impact on the reality of what happened.

[underwater2010]

Interesting notion, and apologies if it's o/t, but *can* a BS be "to blame" for an A, under any conditions? For example, if the M is abusive? If the "BS" cheated first (the A being a revenge A)? If the M itself is the result of an A, ie the BS demonstrated their willingness to "cheat" (on someone else) and thus demonstrated their own concrete lack of belief in monogamy / fidelity? If the BS denies the WS sex and says in a dismissive way, I don't care where you get it? Etc? Or is hypocrisy fine, as long as it's perpetrated by a BS because that sanctifies them and absolves them of any responsibility for anything?

 

Back on topic, does anyone have the stats on whether there are more / fewer / the same no of As in those backwaters that allow Alienation of Affection lawsuits, compared to places that don't?

I have not found any stats regarding states that do or do not have AofA laws. I just think that not many people know about AofAs. Or as it has been pointed out, it doesn't phase people.

[Realist3]

Don't kid yourself, it IS malicious.

 

The MM/MW who lied about marital status to a potential AP is literally calculating: "I'm not going to tell him/her so I will not blow my chance to get this person's body/adoration." There is no thought there to how that person will feel betrayed/used/hurt when the truth comes out, the only thought is the benefit to the liar!

 

The same can be said about what is done to the BS: "I don't care about my wife's/husband's right to consent to a multiple partner relationship, I don't care about what disease I might expose them to. I don't care about what I promised, the sanctity of my vows, the trust that elicited, the life we built, the kids we have, the in-laws which have become family, our mutual friends, or the level of betrayal I will cause or intimacy issues I may scar him/her with. All that matters in this moment is getting my genitals stroked/wants met".

 

The same when an AP won't tell the BS. The AP only wants to maintain their affair (doesn't want to risk getting their MM/MW upset which could result in leaving the AP). They don't give a crap about the massive investment the BS has in their relationship, the AP only cares about his/her OWN relationship!

 

It DOES take malice to choose to deceive someone, it takes deliberate choice to value your own selfish wants over someone else's mental and physical integrity. It requires the deliberate choice to disregard the victim's humanity.

 

When I have enough mental energy to respond to this I will. Right now my mind is elsewhere.