Would you change your mind on the affair?

[underwater2010]

Would you change your mind on having an affair with a MM if you knew that his wife could sue you for Alienation of Affection?

[Realist3]

I would LOVE to hear the legal reasoning behind that argument.

[Sarabi]

Would you change your mind on having an affair with a MM if you knew that his wife could sue you for Alienation of Affection?

What is this??? I know people in America sue for everything (I am not from there)

Hope you don't mind to explain...who is the alien and whose is the affection? Or who is alienating who? Mistress alienating the husband from wife? (its late and I am probably talking rubbish...)

Thank you!!!

[underwater2010]

An action for alienation of affection does not require proof of extramarital sex. An alienation claim is difficult to establish because it comprises several elements and there are several defenses. To succeed on an alienation claim, the plaintiff has to show that (1) the marriage entailed love between the spouses in some degree; (2) the spousal love was alienated and destroyed; and (3) defendant's malicious conduct contributed to or caused the loss of affection. It is not necessary to show that the defendant set out to destroy the marital relationship, but only that he or she intentionally engaged in acts which would foreseeably impact on the marriage. Thus, defendant has a defense against an alienation claim where it can be shown that defendant did not know that the object of his or her affections was in fact married. It is not a defense that the non-innocent spouse consented to defendant's conduct. But it might be a defense that the defendant was not the active and aggressive seducer. If defendant's conduct was somehow inadvertent, the plaintiff would be unable to show intentional or malicious action. But prior marital problems do not establish a defense unless such unhappiness had reached a level of negating love between the spouses.

[underwater2010]

Alienation of Affections lawsuits usually carry little financial value. Damages are limited to “actual damages,” there is no award for “pain and suffering” or “emotional distress.” Still, what they lack in finances they more than make up for in emotional impact and psychological power. For starters, they assume that the “stolen” spouse (almost always the wife) has no autonomy or decision-making ability. The stolen spouse is treated by the law as a piece of property and the jilted spouse is looked at as a property owner who has suffered a mere financial loss. That’s no surprise, of course, since the law harkens back to a time when wives were considered by the law to be their husband’s property. Second, an alienation of affections lawsuit necessarily throws a wrench in the lives of the runaway spouse and the paramour. If married, the paramour usually ends up divorced, too, as a result of the lawsuit’s publication of the affair and the messiness of the lawsuit itself. Subpoenas can be sent to employers, friends, unsuspecting spouses, etc. Likewise, the runaway spouse must bear the stress of knowing that all of the details of the infidelity are being made public in the court filings. Third, the testimony at such trials can be excruciating. The runaway spouse must listen to the detailed testimony of how the marriage had been built and about the mutual love and effort each spouse poured into the marriage. Then, the testimony turns to the lurid details of the affair: gifts, credit card receipts, getaway weekends, hotel registers and phone logs. It can be wrenching.

[Sarabi]

thanks for explaining!

[underwater2010]

Criminal Conversation: When an adulterer convinces his or her spouse to forgive, the injured spouse need not forget. A cause of action known as “criminal conversation” allows a loyal spouse who has suffered through an affair to sue the interloper even if the marriage stays intact. Sometimes money is beside the point – often, the mere filing of such a suit brings relief. One case, for example, alleged that once the plaintiff went off to military service, “[the] defendant, well knowing the happy condition of his home life, by subterfuge, contrivance and design, did wickedly and wantonly overcome the devotion and love of said [wife] toward him; that intending to injure him and intending to deprive him of the society and assistance of his wife, the defendant... wantonly and maliciously destroyed and alienated the affection of the said [wife]; that he carried on an illicit affair with her... and since [husband’s] return [from military service] to the hospital, [wife] has refused to be a dutiful wife and has failed to visit him or take any interest in his plight.” The lawsuit goes on to complain that because of the defendant’s actions, the plaintiff has been wholly deprived of the society, affection, assistance, comfort, and consolation of his wife.

[Realist3]

An archaic law that has no application today.

[Sarabi]

An action for alienation of affection does not require proof of extramarital sex. An alienation claim is difficult to establish because it comprises several elements and there are several defenses.

My goodness me...so much to try to understand!!!(I read your further posts)

I guess this is why I have no patience for anything related to law unless it is written by John Grisham ...

 

but...if it is difficult to establish do you not think that maybe it won't really put people off?

[underwater2010]

An archaic law that has no application today.

They are current laws in some states. And have been used recently. I just find that it is sad that a BS can take this kind of action against their spouse's AP, but not against the spouse themselves.

[underwater2010]

My goodness me...so much to try to understand!!!(I read your further posts)

I guess this is why I have no patience for anything related to law unless it is written by John Grisham ...

 

but...if it is difficult to establish do you not think that maybe it won't really put people off?

It probably depends on how far a BS is willing to dig for the evidence and the status of their marriage prior to the affair starting. Along with actions of the WS during the affair.

[Sarabi]

To succeed on an alienation claim, the plaintiff has to show that (1) the marriage entailed love between the spouses in some degree

As for the above...sorry to ask but how is it possible to prove this? In any way? How do you prove "love"?

[underwater2010]

Birth of new children, anniversary gifts, cards, sexual activity etc. All things that can prove an affair took place to begin with.

[underwater2010]

Why? Do you not think the WS is going to pay one way or the other?

It just bothers me that most states are no fault divorce even when adultery is involved.

[Realist3]

It just bothers me that most states are no fault divorce even when adultery is involved.

 

Why specifically?

[underwater2010]

Why specifically?

Most simply because I had no clue that having sex with someone outside our marriage was even an option. I thought that things were going good, not great, but simply good in our marriage. It was good enough to bring a third child into our marriage and good enough that we did not argue often.

 

Therefore to me...if we were to divorce it would be because of his affair, at least if I was the one to start the divorce precedings. Therefore the blame for the divorce would land squarely on his shoulders.

 

Although I am sure that if he would have divorced me for living like roommates due to my job....the blame would be on my shoulders.

 

The point being there is always a reason for divorce. And someone is always to blame, therefore why is there a no fault divorce unless it is to save the court and persons divorcing money.

[Realist3]

Most simply because I had no clue that having sex with someone outside our marriage was even an option. I thought that things were going good, not great, but simply good in our marriage. It was good enough to bring a third child into our marriage and good enough that we did not argue often.

 

Therefore to me...if we were to divorce it would be because of his affair, at least if I was the one to start the divorce precedings. Therefore the blame for the divorce would land squarely on his shoulders.

 

Although I am sure that if he would have divorced me for living like roommates due to my job....the blame would be on my shoulders.

 

The point being there is always a reason for divorce. And someone is always to blame, therefore why is there a no fault divorce unless it is to save the court and persons divorcing money.

 

Why should blame constitute an unequal division of assets or child custody?

 

Having sex outside of marriage does not mean a marriage must disolve. The filing spouse is the one that makes that decision, but that is strictly personal. So while the sex outside of marriage may contribute to the decision to end the marriage, it cannot be said it 'made' the spouse make the decision to end the marriage. I hope you see the difference.

[cocorico]

Would you change your mind on having an affair with a MM if you knew that his wife could sue you for Alienation of Affection?

 

No.

 

Nor can one in the UK, AFAIK, and even of it was still on an unrepealed statute book somewhere she'd have looked like a complete anachronism who thought her spouse was mere property had she tried.

 

And if she had tried, I'd have relished the opportunity to bring out witness after witness to attest to the fact that there was no affection to alienate, that he only took her back because of the trauma the kids were suffering due to her falling apart and her poor handling of the separation, and illustrated by his refusal to merge finances, change wills, etc when he took her back and her refusal to keep to the terms under which he agreed to take her back. She'd have been humiliated in court by the stream of testimony from acquaintances who had no idea they had any R since there was no visible manifestation, and friends and family who knew them very well attesting to the lack of love and affection in the M (from her side ever, from his steadily waning until the first separation killed off any vestiges). The lack of sex would be evidenced by her own emails, medical records, etc, and her dirty laundry would have been aired very publicly. I would only have felt sorry for the K's having to witness the consequences of her idiocy.

 

As for us, our R was common knowledge, we were an open couple and so would have had nothing to hide. There would have been no negative consequences beyond others who did not know him / them well beforehand wondering what kept him there so long.

[woinlove]

I know the laws are different in different countries ( and vary between provinces/ states), but if a couple divorces because of an affair, can the betaryed spouse sue for the return of any marital funds any marital funds that were used for the affair or given ( either in cash or gifts in kind) to the other man/woman? I know that in the province I live in, they can ( it has happened), and the wayward spouse was made to return the funds.

 

I would expect this to be fairly common anywhere financial fraud in marital assets is recognized. Whether it is an affair or a spouse who tries to secretly get more than their financial share by agreement and law, financial fraud if proven, can often be rectified.

[LFH]

Would you change your mind on having an affair with a MM if you knew that his wife could sue you for Alienation of Affection?

 

Not in the slightest.

• 
  
• I'm not afraid of financial repercussions
  
• There'd be a lot she'd have to try and prove regarding how I caused the alienation of affection.
  
• I'm not easily shamed by something I own 100%
  
• Everyone that matters to me knows
  

So, despite all the claims of dishonesty and deception, it's fairly true that I have nothing to hide, so how would it hurt me?

[cocorico]

I know the laws are different in different countries ( and vary between provinces/ states), but if a couple divorces because of an affair, can the betaryed spouse sue for the return of any marital funds any marital funds that were used for the affair or given ( either in cash or gifts in kind) to the other man/woman? I know that in the province I live in, they can ( it has happened), and the wayward spouse was made to return the funds.

 

In countries whose laws I am familiar with:

 

That would apply if the couple were married in community of property. If the couple were married out of community of property (by ANC, for example) it would not apply, as there would be no "marital assets" by definition.

[underwater2010]

Why should blame constitute an unequal division of assets or child custody?

 

Having sex outside of marriage does not mean a marriage must disolve. The filing spouse is the one that makes that decision, but that is strictly personal. So while the sex outside of marriage may contribute to the decision to end the marriage, it cannot be said it 'made' the spouse make the decision to end the marriage. I hope you see the difference.

Yes I know the difference. The difference is wither the BS decideds their WS is worthy to keep the marriage going or that their WS's behavior is to devistating to stay married. Either which way, the behavior of the WS is the determining factor, therefore it would be the main reason why the divorce would proceed.

 

Its not like the BS just woke up one day and said today is the day I am going to divorce my wonderful spouse that has done nothing wrong.

 

I don't believe in my case that there should be unequal division of assets (unless I had no income of my own) or that it should impact child custody (if he a good father). But I would like it to be stated for the public record that I did not just give up on my marriage....it was my spouse that threw it away.

[underwater2010]

I know the laws are different in different countries ( and vary between provinces/ states), but if a couple divorces because of an affair, can the betaryed spouse sue for the return of any marital funds any marital funds that were used for the affair or given ( either in cash or gifts in kind) to the other man/woman? I know that in the province I live in, they can ( it has happened), and the wayward spouse was made to return the funds.

If I understand the lawsuit outcomes correctly all you get is money back that was spent on/with the AP. No money for pain and suffering.

 

It pretty much boils down to finding a legal way to expose both the WS and their AP in a very public way ie employers, family, friends.

[LFH]

If I understand the lawsuit outcomes correctly all you get is money back that was spent on/with the AP. No money for pain and suffering.

 

It pretty much boils down to finding a legal way to expose both the WS and their AP in a very public way ie employers, family, friends.

 

And what is the purpose? Shaming? In my case, what is it going to hurt? It's not going to impact me at all.

Wouldn't it make more sense then to just bring back stockades? This seems like such a waste of time to me and many others.

I suppose fo rthose that are cheating themselves perhaps there would be some repercussions but those that don't bother to hide it this just seems...I don't even know. Wasteful.

Of time, money and resources for eveyrone involved.

[Realist3]

Its not like the BS just woke up one day and said today is the day I am going to divorce my wonderful spouse that has done nothing wrong.

 

Sounds very close to discussions and reasoning used for people having affairs. Something was wrong so they made a decision.