Coping with Wife's Sexual aversion

[GoodupsEvil]

I joined after reading the thread on "My wife hates sex" started a few weeks back, not entirely because my situation resonates with the OP there, but largely because I feel there is something for me to gain from the input of those who posted on that thread.

 

My wife and I have been married for nearly 7 years now, dated through high school and college, and have been essentially monogamous partners throughout the entire time. There were infidelities prior to our marriage on both parts, but since committing to each other, I know I have been faithful and trust wholly that she has as well.

 

Prior to the advent of parenthood, we enjoyed what I perceived to be a healthy sexual relationship, though by her own admission, as recently as yesterday, she never cared for intimacy with me, rather pursued it as a means of meeting my perceived needs. I care deeply for her, and expressing that physically has always been paramount, even to the extent that I have and will do whatever she requests of me in terms of performing sexually. My memory of this time does not meld with this assertion, but I do not feel justified in contradicting her RE her own experience.

 

Nevertheless, with the birth of our first child came a sharp drop in her libido that I simply was not prepared for. The subsequent changes proved detrimental to my self esteem and our relationship. Someone, on a forum not unlike this one, recommended to her that she continue to perform "sexual duties" and over time, she would come to enjoy intimacy with me again.

 

This was not shared with me initially, though admittedly, it was apparent that she was discontent. I am culpable for having pressured her into sex, and for having failed to meet her emotional needs by distancing myself and withdrawing in response to her need to sexual reprieve. Beyond that, there are other specific instances that are clearly identifiable as being sources for her aversion.

 

We have done therapy, I have read several books on marriage, communication, relationships, female experiences of sex, and other resources that I found may be helpful in fostering a positive growth in our marriage and in overcoming her sexual aversion. I feel she is commited to rectifying our marriage, and she is adamant that the first thing necessary for her to heal is space.

 

I understand this need and will provide as requested, however, coping is difficult.

 

Tips please.

[whatever1]

Welcome on board.

Watch out for the "you are a lousy lover crowd"! Take their advice with a grain of salt. And maybe the sage poster JamesM can weigh in with some of his very good advice.

Has your wife defined what she means by needing "space"? When was your child born? So basically she performs for your sake but resents sex all together for her part? And she is saying that this is the way it has been ever since you've been together?

Please clarify.

I wish you all the best.

I joined after reading the thread on "My wife hates sex" started a few weeks back, not entirely because my situation resonates with the OP there, but largely because I feel there is something for me to gain from the input of those who posted on that thread.

 

My wife and I have been married for nearly 7 years now, dated through high school and college, and have been essentially monogamous partners throughout the entire time. There were infidelities prior to our marriage on both parts, but since committing to each other, I know I have been faithful and trust wholly that she has as well.

 

Prior to the advent of parenthood, we enjoyed what I perceived to be a healthy sexual relationship, though by her own admission, as recently as yesterday, she never cared for intimacy with me, rather pursued it as a means of meeting my perceived needs. I care deeply for her, and expressing that physically has always been paramount, even to the extent that I have and will do whatever she requests of me in terms of performing sexually. My memory of this time does not meld with this assertion, but I do not feel justified in contradicting her RE her own experience.

 

Nevertheless, with the birth of our first child came a sharp drop in her libido that I simply was not prepared for. The subsequent changes proved detrimental to my self esteem and our relationship. Someone, on a forum not unlike this one, recommended to her that she continue to perform "sexual duties" and over time, she would come to enjoy intimacy with me again.

 

This was not shared with me initially, though admittedly, it was apparent that she was discontent. I am culpable for having pressured her into sex, and for having failed to meet her emotional needs by distancing myself and withdrawing in response to her need to sexual reprieve. Beyond that, there are other specific instances that are clearly identifiable as being sources for her aversion.

 

We have done therapy, I have read several books on marriage, communication, relationships, female experiences of sex, and other resources that I found may be helpful in fostering a positive growth in our marriage and in overcoming her sexual aversion. I feel she is commited to rectifying our marriage, and she is adamant that the first thing necessary for her to heal is space.

 

I understand this need and will provide as requested, however, coping is difficult.

 

Tips please.

[Feelin Frisky]

Please try to take what I have to say and internalize it. I often write about it but get no strokes--probably because it might sound scientific or analytical and people want easy answers expressed in familiar terms. This issue she has about "space" right now is ground zero for my hard learned perspective. Romance is necessary for sexual attraction. And romance is only one thing: it is "want". There is a dynamic where romance dies when "want" changes to "having". Since you've agreed to try to salvage the relationship, you have to figure out what will make her want you if anything. To a lot of guys that instantly means doing nice things, giving gifts, and so fourth. That is not giving her what she wants, that is plying her with stuff or artificial affection to get what they want. Since you "want" her already, you're "problem" is in keeping your want alive while trying to figure what if anything will get her to want you. Since she said something as unflattering as she didn't want you in the first place but just yielded to your needs, it's a tough row to hoe. Perhaps how well of a parent you are to your child will buy you some respect as long as you don't lose your patience and say something gives you away as just another person plying a women for what he wants. But at some point she has to collect herself and get real with her own aging and own mortality. And if she resigns to be frigid and unhappy, I have no other answer but go out and knock yourself out with some affairs. I have a brother much like in your situation--he's a saint. But enough is enough. He got caught and gave it up for his daughters. But his wife is such a misery, I would have used that affair to perhaps divorce. That's just how it goes sometimes. Managing to keep "wanting" alive when you "have" someone or something is the trick of happiness.

[Els]

 

Nevertheless, with the birth of our first child came a sharp drop in her libido that I simply was not prepared for.

 

How is the division of your childcare and other assorted household tasks like, OP? Is she constantly exhausted?

[GoodupsEvil]

Welcome on board.

And maybe the sage poster JamesM can weigh in with some of his very good advice.

I'm hoping so...I respected his input on the threads I read thus far.

 

Has your wife defined what she means by needing "space"?

Friendship level intimacy: holding hands, cuddling, kissing

 

Allowing her to intitiate any level of intimacy beyond those specified above.

 

When was your child born?

My daughter is 4, my son is 2, and one of the challenges I have faced with my marriage is what I perceive to be a disproportionate emphasis placed on the kids. I am not ignorant of the dynamics of this type of situation, and I am an attentive and committed father. However, I have been expressly told on numerous occasions that our marriage cannot be given any of her focus due to her need to prioritize our children and her personal recovery. I do not resent her for this, as I believe her need for personal recover is commiserate with an appropriate sequence for re solidifying our marriage.

I do maintain, however, that had there been some effort placed on maintaining our relationship and communication earlier on, as opposed to investing all in parenting, then our current circumstance could have been at worst alleviated if not all together avoided.

 

 

So basically she performs for your sake but resents sex all together for her part? And she is saying that this is the way it has been ever since you've been together?

 

Our sex life at current is focused on procreating. She wants a 3rd child, as do I, though I must admit I am a little reticent regarding the timing. I would rather see the marital issues resolved prior to introducing the stresses an infant will bring. On the other hand, we are in accord that a 3rd will be final, and i am eager to move out of this phase of our marriage operating on the assumption that as the children age and become less demanding, we will have time to focus on our marriage.

 

She does not perform for my sake, and I am not asking that she do so. I understand her need for space and time to recover her sense of control.

 

She enjoys sex, physiologically, and I feel there is still a strong emotional connection between us during sex. Yet, she claims a sense of repulsion to all notions of sex, to the extent that, under duress, she claimed to feel harassed in regards to the compliments I endeavored to pay her regarding her appearance. To be exact, I tell her I think she is beautiful, that I like her clothing choices, things of that nature.

 

To be fair, she recently discovered an online article RE sexual aversion, and finding that some of the covered material coincided with her present state, she embraced perhaps more of the article's content as is in direct concert.

I make this assumption based on numerous precedents I have observed in our life together.

 

I appreciate the response and interest in my situation. What I am truly looking for here are some tips, practices, concrete actionable items and/or perspectives that I can do for helping to alleviate the sense of alienation and lack of appreciation I feel from my spouse as she works through these issues and is unable to be available for concerning herself with my needs, sexual or otherwise.

[KathyM]

We really don't know enough about your situation to give you advice. You said she claims she never did like sex with you. That would mean that either there is a lack of chemistry, or that you both need help in improving your lovemaking skills, or that she has a low hormone level or a sexual desire or a sexual arousal disorder. I would suggest you consult with a certified sex therapist who can determine where the problem lies and help you both to work this out together. Most therapists have not taken courses in sexual disorders specifically, but there are some who have. I would suggest consulting with one as a first thing. Do NOT have an affair or consult a lawyer. That will not help, and will only do damage to your relationship and your family. Consult a sex therapist as a first thing.

[GoodupsEvil]

I handle the majority of the housework. My wife is a bit slovenly, to be honest. It is a source of contention, and she has mentioned several times her interest in performing better at housekeeping and the potential boon it would have on her self esteem. She is regularly exhausted, but it is more of the drain from her poor coping skills. She cannot handle stress well, and the kids and other factors often tend to be more than she can handle.

 

My wife is not a saint, but she is not a whore either. The lone time she was unfaithful to me, I had been overseas for 6 months, and she called me the next morning to inform me of her cheating. She is an honorable person, and if I am a clear thinking individual. If she were cheating on me, there would be some unnaccounted for time in her daily life. There is not.

 

That being said, I have entertained the notion that she may be emotionally infaithful, but I am still of the opinion that this is not the case. She expresses her love for me, and we are working on our sexual relationship.

 

I posted earlier what I am looking for here.

[GoodupsEvil]

I'm interested in actually trying to help the OP to find out why her libido dropped specifically after childbirth; you're welcome to try and do the same.

 

She tore during natural birth and feels disffigured.

 

Despite the anonymity of the board, I still feel I am betraying her trust in sharing that....

 

It is a highly sensitive subject for her, and one she would like to pursue cosmetic surgery for after our 3rd child.

[KathyM]

You may want to see that she gets help from a therapist who will work with her on her self image, her motivation, her coping skills, and strategies/treatment for her low energy. She could be clinically depressed. That can cause lack of energy, low self esteem, and loss of interest in sex. Some people are clinically depressed for years without realizing what they have and without seeking treatment. Consult with a sex therapist as a first thing, and ask about a referral for independent counseling for your wife.

[Mr. Lucky]

I appreciate the response and interest in my situation. What I am truly looking for here are some tips, practices, concrete actionable items and/or perspectives that I can do for helping to alleviate the sense of alienation and lack of appreciation I feel from my spouse as she works through these issues and is unable to be available for concerning herself with my needs, sexual or otherwise.

I think you may have unrealistic expectations of what can be offered you here as the best options have already been given, especially regarding therapy or counseling as a means of addressing the disconnect in your marriage.

 

Now were it your wife posting, might be different. I'd be very interested in knowing how she sees you as a spouse and partner ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GoodupsEvil]

I really appreciate the time and energy invested in making all of the replies here. Cumulatively, there is some good content for me to consider and potentially put into play.

 

Interestingly enough, even the process of writing out my situation and having a "discussion" RE my circumstance has had a positive effect.

 

KathyM - in addition to taking the time to reply, thank you for taking the time to read and comprehend everything that I posted.

 

I will talk to her again about counseling and get some appointments scheduled.

[Spark1111]

children, ages 2 and 4 are absolutely exhausting, all day, every day without break or respite.

 

what do you two do for fun? what is your support system? have good babysitters? ever afford a weekend away? How much time is devoted to romance? Does she feel safe to come to you with any and all her daily trials and tribulations?

 

Do you afford her time alone during the weekend or week nights, away from the children?

 

I have worked inside the home and outside the home and being home full-time with baby children is hands down the most exhausting job I have ever had.

 

it can be very hard to switch from mommy to lover at the end of the day. all you crave is sleep.

 

She may be depressed. she may need IC. She may need consistent breaks from mommy hood. she may need to make friends with women who have young children too. she needs a support system.

 

You both need to have fun with each other.

 

good luck to you.

[Els]

I handle the majority of the housework. My wife is a bit slovenly, to be honest. It is a source of contention, and she has mentioned several times her interest in performing better at housekeeping and the potential boon it would have on her self esteem. She is regularly exhausted, but it is more of the drain from her poor coping skills. She cannot handle stress well, and the kids and other factors often tend to be more than she can handle.

 

Hmmm. It sounds like there is nothing more that you can do about this bit from your end, then. If the stress etc is overwhelming her, then it would definitely contribute to a drop in libido, but it isn't up to you to fix that if you're already pulling more than your fair share.

 

Some women do tend to mistakenly go into full-time mommy mode and forget that they are also a wife and lover, when children come into play. If this is something that is a contributor in your case, a marriage counselor could help both of you figure things out.

 

My wife is not a saint, but she is not a whore either. The lone time she was unfaithful to me, I had been overseas for 6 months, and she called me the next morning to inform me of her cheating. She is an honorable person, and if I am a clear thinking individual. If she were cheating on me, there would be some unnaccounted for time in her daily life. There is not.

 

That being said, I have entertained the notion that she may be emotionally infaithful, but I am still of the opinion that this is not the case. She expresses her love for me, and we are working on our sexual relationship.

 

I posted earlier what I am looking for here.

 

Frequency of sex does drop sharply when people cheat, but it is not by any means the primary reason for loss of libido in most women. Lik is pulling the 9/10 number out of his ass, unfortunately. It is a possibility, but it seems highly unlikely to be the reason given the timing. Most women do not begin an affair just after the birth of their first child.

 

I think that given the fact that both of you committed infidelity prior to your marriage and she has presumably also forgiven and forgotten yours, it is certainly fair in your case to wipe the slate clean and judge her actions based on what she is doing, not what she did.

 

She tore during natural birth and feels disffigured.

 

Despite the anonymity of the board, I still feel I am betraying her trust in sharing that....

 

It is a highly sensitive subject for her, and one she would like to pursue cosmetic surgery for after our 3rd child.

 

I definitely think a sex therapist would be necessary for dealing with this, as Kathy suggested. You can help by showing her that you do in fact feel she is sexy and attractive, tear notwithstanding.

[standtall]

children, ages 2 and 4 are absolutely exhausting, all day, every day without break or respite.

 

what do you two do for fun? what is your support system? have good babysitters? ever afford a weekend away? How much time is devoted to romance? Does she feel safe to come to you with any and all her daily trials and tribulations?

 

Do you afford her time alone during the weekend or week nights, away from the children?

 

I have worked inside the home and outside the home and being home full-time with baby children is hands down the most exhausting job I have ever had.

 

it can be very hard to switch from mommy to lover at the end of the day. all you crave is sleep.

 

She may be depressed. she may need IC. She may need consistent breaks from mommy hood. she may need to make friends with women who have young children too. she needs a support system.

 

You both need to have fun with each other.

 

good luck to you.

 

According to the OP, she said that she never really enjoyed intimacy with him, not that she was too tired.

 

OP, it sounds like you have a real expensive roommate. I agree with the other poster that it is time to lawyer up over what most men would consider a deal beaker...., but not before you get her back to work.

[GoodupsEvil]

I believe her assertions that her aversion is to sex in general, not me specifically. And there are elements of intimacy present in our relationship.

 

For example, we watched a film together last night, spent some follow up time discussing it and sharing our interpretations. We are also having some remodeling done, and worked together for an hour before going to bed to make some headway on the project before the hired work arrived this morning.

 

Going to bed, I, feeling connected and desiring sex, and she, feeling the connection but not the desire, fell asleep holding hands.

 

I only cite this to address a number of the accusations of her not pulling her own weight (she is gainfully employed and has ALWAYS been a low level housework contributor) and her non-interest in any level of intimacy with me. I am wholly confident that our relationship will improve on the sexual front given time.

 

My issue, and what brought me here, are how to approach the time in the interim and how to best facilitate our recovery. As much as I love holding hands with my wife, she and I are in different places.

 

Indications that I should Lawyer Up, and assume that she is cheating are not helpful. That is not how I operate. I have had those thoughts/notions and already rejected them. Not because I am a spineless toady, rather because I have the strength and faith to persevere and honor my marriage vows.

 

I am interested in non-aggressive means of conveying to her that she is attractive. She has stated that my complimenting her feels like harassment, and that the way I look at her feels like leering.

 

She has a penchant for overstatement, but the root behind the sentiment must take hold in soil that provides at least a small measure of nourishment.

[Mr. Lucky]

I am wholly confident that our relationship will improve on the sexual front given time.

Just so we can fully understand, confident based on what?

 

Mr. Lucky

[JamesM]

I am going to comment on each of your posts. I don't know if what I say will be of any help, but I do have some experience with a sexless marriage...as you know.

 

I joined after reading the thread on "My wife hates sex" started a few weeks back, not entirely because my situation resonates with the OP there, but largely because I feel there is something for me to gain from the input of those who posted on that thread.

 

There is and always still is for me. I have learned that every situation is different, but there is often some commonalities that cause us to glean info from each other.

 

My wife and I have been married for nearly 7 years now, dated through high school and college, and have been essentially monogamous partners throughout the entire time. There were infidelities prior to our marriage on both parts, but since committing to each other, I know I have been faithful and trust wholly that she has as well.

 

What type of infidelities and how did the two of you resolve the issues? Was it while you were engaged?

 

Trusting she has been faithful is good, but her aversion to sex could be related to an affair...although I am not leaning towards that just yet.

 

Prior to the advent of parenthood, we enjoyed what I perceived to be a healthy sexual relationship, though by her own admission, as recently as yesterday, she never cared for intimacy with me, rather pursued it as a means of meeting my perceived needs.

 

You perceived it healthy and you say she did not...could it be that she DID think it enjoyable in the past and her view now clouds her interest back then? It happens often that how we feel today clouds our memories of the past.

 

How often did you have sex and who initiated it? Do you have any sex now and how does it usually go?

 

I care deeply for her, and expressing that physically has always been paramount, even to the extent that I have and will do whatever she requests of me in terms of performing sexually. My memory of this time does not meld with this assertion, but I do not feel justified in contradicting her RE her own experience.

 

Did she seem to have orgasms? Did she seem to enjoy cuddling et al? Was there ever an issue with sex at the beginning? Did she ever make comments that gave an indication of her lack of interest and maybe you heard them but blew them off?

 

Nevertheless, with the birth of our first child came a sharp drop in her libido that I simply was not prepared for. The subsequent changes proved detrimental to my self esteem and our relationship. Someone, on a forum not unlike this one, recommended to her that she continue to perform "sexual duties" and over time, she would come to enjoy intimacy with me again.

 

This happens to many even those in healthy sexual marriages. It has been asked, but did she often complain about doing all of the work? Did she experience depression after the birth? Was it a hard labor and delivery?

 

Her lack of interest could have snowballed into more after your reaction (and I am not blaming you just saying).

 

This was not shared with me initially, though admittedly, it was apparent that she was discontent. I am culpable for having pressured her into sex, and for having failed to meet her emotional needs by distancing myself and withdrawing in response to her need to sexual reprieve.

 

And this lack of "we" in your marriage could easily still be there. Pressuring her for sex when she does not want it means that in her mind sex becomes a means to satisfy your needs and no longer having anything to do with her.

 

Beyond that, there are other specific instances that are clearly identifiable as being sources for her aversion.

 

Please explain.

 

We have done therapy,

 

What happened? How did that go? Did it help at all? And if it didn't, then maybe another therapist would be better.

 

I have read several books on marriage, communication, relationships, female experiences of sex, and other resources that I found may be helpful in fostering a positive growth in our marriage and in overcoming her sexual aversion.

 

Was your PRIMARY goal for reading all about sex or was it about growing the marriage? Be honest. Was your focus on how to fix her or how to fix us? And did you point things out to her and let her know what she needed to do to fix herself, or did you try new techniques to improve the marriage? Did she ever read any books or did she work while in therapy? Or was this all you?

 

I feel she is commited to rectifying our marriage, and she is adamant that the first thing necessary for her to heal is space.

 

What kind of space? Separation? Or more time alone? Why do you think she is committed to your marriage?

 

I understand this need and will provide as requested, however, coping is difficult.

 

How will giving her space help heal the marriage?

 

Question: Are you totally committed to this marriage and willing to do what it takes to change things even if right now it appears that she isn't...even if it takes ten months or even ten years? Do you truly love her enough to do that?

[JamesM]

I'm hoping so...I respected his input on the threads I read thus far.

 

Thank you. I only help that something I say can be of help to you. Your situation is different from mine in a number of ways, so I am not certain if all of it will help but maybe some of it will.

 

I wrote alot on whatever1's thread about how I resolved some of our issues and gave new life to our marriage. Since you said you read that thread, then maybe you can find something there that can be helpful.

 

Friendship level intimacy: holding hands, cuddling, kissing

 

Allowing her to intitiate any level of intimacy beyond those specified above.

 

Does she hold hands or cuddle or kiss with that loving look in her eyes? Does she initiate the kissing and cuddling? Or does she indicate that she is "afraid" that you will want more? Has she initiated sex since she asked for space?

 

My daughter is 4, my son is 2, and one of the challenges I have faced with my marriage is what I perceive to be a disproportionate emphasis placed on the kids. I am not ignorant of the dynamics of this type of situation, and I am an attentive and committed father.

 

THIS complaint is very common in marriages with young children such as yours. It was in ours even though at that time our marriage had more pleasurable sex than it did in later years. The only thing you can do is help and take charge of the kids. However, both spouses do need to learn that building the marriage is very beneficial to the children. It is hard for most of us to learn.

 

The way that this could contribute to your problem is by her feeling that you want sex despite her tiredness and lack of energy.

 

 

However, I have been expressly told on numerous occasions that our marriage cannot be given any of her focus due to her need to prioritize our children and her personal recovery. I do not resent her for this, as I believe her need for personal recover is commiserate with an appropriate sequence for re solidifying our marriage.

 

She had better be careful or she will wake up without a marriage! Children should come first, but what is this about a personal recovery? What are the issues that she feels need resolving?

 

I do maintain, however, that had there been some effort placed on maintaining our relationship and communication earlier on, as opposed to investing all in parenting, then our current circumstance could have been at worst alleviated if not all together avoided.

 

Agreed. However, it is not too late to rebuild.

 

Our sex life at current is focused on procreating. She wants a 3rd child, as do I, though I must admit I am a little reticent regarding the timing.

 

Crazy. My wife was the same! Amazing how much sex we had when she wanted another child!

 

I would rather see the marital issues resolved prior to introducing the stresses an infant will bring. On the other hand, we are in accord that a 3rd will be final, and i am eager to move out of this phase of our marriage operating on the assumption that as the children age and become less demanding, we will have time to focus on our marriage.

 

Don't assume. I hate to tell you this, but our sex problems began to get worse after we had our last child. If she no longer wants children, then she will no longer have a use for sex if sex is all about having children. And it will take at least three to four years after the birth of your last child for the busyness of children starts diminishing. Honestly, I would say closer to five or six.

 

She does not perform for my sake, and I am not asking that she do so. I understand her need for space and time to recover her sense of control.

 

I am confused about her need for space and time for recovery. Could you explain if you haven't when I asked earlier?

 

She enjoys sex, physiologically, and I feel there is still a strong emotional connection between us during sex. Yet, she claims a sense of repulsion to all notions of sex, to the extent that, under duress, she claimed to feel harassed in regards to the compliments I endeavored to pay her regarding her appearance. To be exact, I tell her I think she is beautiful, that I like her clothing choices, things of that nature.

 

Your compliments seem to her to be a way to get sex. If she is repulses by sex, then she will feel less eager to hear what she feels is a means to get sex...even if you don't intend it to be that.

 

To be fair, she recently discovered an online article RE sexual aversion, and finding that some of the covered material coincided with her present state, she embraced perhaps more of the article's content as is in direct concert.

I make this assumption based on numerous precedents I have observed in our life together.

 

Did she read it for help and advice or did she use it as an excuse?

 

I appreciate the response and interest in my situation. What I am truly looking for here are some tips, practices, concrete actionable items and/or perspectives that I can do for helping to alleviate the sense of alienation and lack of appreciation I feel from my spouse as she works through these issues and is unable to be available for concerning herself with my needs, sexual or otherwise.

 

I do hope you get some tips that give you hope. One of the hardest things for me was having no idea what I could do. When I was given some techniques and possible solutions (even when they proved to be wrong), I at least felt that I was not alone and could do something. I think you have plenty of things to try yet before it appears to be hopeless. I congratulate you on reaching out at such an early stage. I wish I had started earlier and hadn't screwed up as much as I did before finding what appears to be a long term solution.

[JamesM]

I handle the majority of the housework. My wife is a bit slovenly, to be honest.

 

What does she do?

 

Have you told her she is slovenly? And do you mean re house or also how she dresses?

 

Is she overweight? Are you overweight?

 

It is a source of contention, and she has mentioned several times her interest in performing better at housekeeping and the potential boon it would have on her self esteem.

 

What is the source of contention? Her lack of motivation to clean or her messiness? Is she messy?

 

Does she cook?

 

She is regularly exhausted, but it is more of the drain from her poor coping skills. She cannot handle stress well, and the kids and other factors often tend to be more than she can handle.

 

Her tiredness will reflect on her enjoyment of sex...even if it is her fault that she is tired. And two kids can be exhausting for anyone. If she is disorganized and can't seem to get it all done, then this is mentally and physically exhausting, too.

 

Have you considered hiring a housekeeper even if part time and for a short term solution?

 

My wife is not a saint, but she is not a whore either. The lone time she was unfaithful to me, I had been overseas for 6 months, and she called me the next morning to inform me of her cheating.

 

Are you sure it was one time? (Not meaning to make you doubt).

 

She is an honorable person, and if I am a clear thinking individual. If she were cheating on me, there would be some unnaccounted for time in her daily life. There is not.

 

Actually, if she cheated, then she would have accounted for unaccounted time. But I don't see that as the problem...yet.

 

That being said, I have entertained the notion that she may be emotionally infaithful, but I am still of the opinion that this is not the case. She expresses her love for me, and we are working on our sexual relationship.

 

Does she complain that you are not taking the time to listen to her or talk with her? Is there ANYONE that could be a close friend and who spends time with?

 

Does she express her love now as she did in the past...or is it different? You say "we" are working on the sexual relationship....is it WE or YOU?

 

I posted earlier what I am looking for here.

 

I hope you find it.

[JamesM]

She tore during natural birth and feels disffigured.

 

Despite the anonymity of the board, I still feel I am betraying her trust in sharing that....

 

It is a highly sensitive subject for her, and one she would like to pursue cosmetic surgery for after our 3rd child.

 

This happens to other women. Mine did a little but not nearly enough to be an issue. It healed properly. But if she feels that she is "ugly" when you two have sex, then it could keep her from enjoying sex. However, if her aversion to sex began before this happened, then this isn't the issue. However, having said that, she may THINK her aversion began before but it may still be simply related to this.

 

Confusing...I know.

 

I believe her assertions that her aversion is to sex in general, not me specifically. And there are elements of intimacy present in our relationship.

 

Having been there, I would agree at this point. I had some who told me that if she was with another man, then her lack of interest in sex would go away. This may be true, but in our case, it was also because our emotional bond was weaker than it should have been.

 

For example, we watched a film together last night, spent some follow up time discussing it and sharing our interpretations. We are also having some remodeling done, and worked together for an hour before going to bed to make some headway on the project before the hired work arrived this morning.

 

This is good. We are doing some remodeling too, and while I don't like it, my wife likes it because we are working together and communicating. It makes her feel closer. However, this is not necessarily the deep emotional bond that you need. It is a building block, but it is not the level that is needed.

 

Move it to the direction of feelings.

 

Going to bed, I, feeling connected and desiring sex, and she, feeling the connection but not the desire, fell asleep holding hands.

 

This is good. Do more cuddling and kissing without any expectation of sex. In time it could lead to more. If she feels that you won't always expect sex when there is cuddling and kissing, then she may feel that her space was given, and then she will feel freer to initiate sex.

 

I only cite this to address a number of the accusations of her not pulling her own weight (she is gainfully employed and has ALWAYS been a low level housework contributor) and her non-interest in any level of intimacy with me. I am wholly confident that our relationship will improve on the sexual front given time.

 

As an optimist, I always like it when I see someone tackle a problem with this kind of attitude. If you didn't feel that the future will be brighter, then you may as well quit now.

 

As for accusations from posters, remember, they only give thoughts and feedback based on what they read. And ignore some of them as some have had experiences that cloud their opinions for your situation.

 

My issue, and what brought me here, are how to approach the time in the interim and how to best facilitate our recovery. As much as I love holding hands with my wife, she and I are in different places.

 

One thing I learned (besides frustration, anger and depression ) is patience. Trying to reach the goal too quickly will be detrimental to your marriage.

 

As for the goal, you do need to know what it is. You may THINK you know that the goal is more satisfying sex, but the REAL goal may be a closer emotional bond and relationship which results in more satisfying sex.

 

Indications that I should Lawyer Up, and assume that she is cheating are not helpful. That is not how I operate. I have had those thoughts/notions and already rejected them. Not because I am a spineless toady, rather because I have the strength and faith to persevere and honor my marriage vows.

 

Excellent attitude! If you had one foot on the way to the divorce court, then I would say quit the hard work and leave the marriage. With your attitude, there is much hope and a good possibility that your marriage will improve.

 

I am interested in non-aggressive means of conveying to her that she is attractive. She has stated that my complimenting her feels like harassment, and that the way I look at her feels like leering.

 

Court her. Do so with the goal of showing her that you love her as your wife and as a friend and person. Look at her as you did when you met her. No, you can't forget all of the memories you have, but you can look at her anew with that wonderment. Appreciate her face and eyes. Perhaps it was her smile that you first found beautiful. Whatever it is...admire her. And what qualities do you respect about her? What is it that you love?

 

Don't look at her with the intention of getting her into bed. Look at her with the look of admiring love.

 

She has a penchant for overstatement, but the root behind the sentiment must take hold in soil that provides at least a small measure of nourishment.

 

My wife does, too. Sometimes it is only a small problem and temporarily it becomes big. And because of that, it may only take a small fix that eliminates the problem.

[JamesM]

By the way, you can always lay down the law and give an ultimatum. I promise you that it may work.

 

It did for me...

 

HOWEVER, having said that...it is also quite likely that it will be a short term solution and not a lasting one. It will be based on fear more than love and will disappear if it doesn't stay maintained by love.

 

My ultimatum wore off in about four months or so. And then slowly we returned to our sexless marriage over the next year or so. Some told me that this was because I didn't follow through with my ultimatum. Probably true...but I knew that all I would end up doing was create more fear and build less love.

 

If you want a long term fix to your problem, then you IMO need to dig deeper and discover the real underlying issue. If it is the lack of a strong emotional bond, then you need to rebuild it. If it is some issue from her past, then she needs to fix it. If it is her stress, then you may need to alleviate it.

 

Tackling the problem by being the assertive male who wants to fix everything without taking the time to find the real issue....this will only lead to disappointment. Tackling the problem with the perseverance and persistence of a loving husband who has his wife's best interests in mind should lead to some satisfaction and a solution.

 

You have a great attitude and your wife should be pleased with your commitment to solving this. Hopefully LS will give you that solution.

[BetheButterfly]

By the way, you can always lay down the law and give an ultimatum. I promise you that it may work.

 

It did for me...

 

HOWEVER, having said that...it is also quite likely that it will be a short term solution and not a lasting one. It will be based on fear more than love and will disappear if it doesn't stay maintained by love.

 

My ultimatum wore off in about four months or so. And then slowly we returned to our sexless marriage over the next year or so. Some told me that this was because I didn't follow through with my ultimatum. Probably true...but I knew that all I would end up doing was create more fear and build less love.

 

If you want a long term fix to your problem, then you IMO need to dig deeper and discover the real underlying issue. If it is the lack of a strong emotional bond, then you need to rebuild it. If it is some issue from her past, then she needs to fix it. If it is her stress, then you may need to alleviate it.

 

Tackling the problem by being the assertive male who wants to fix everything without taking the time to find the real issue....this will only lead to disappointment. Tackling the problem with the perseverance and persistence of a loving husband who has his wife's best interests in mind should lead to some satisfaction and a solution.

You have a great attitude and your wife should be pleased with your commitment to solving this. Hopefully LS will give you that solution.

 

I bolded some above that is so important.

 

You know what I think would be good JamesM? I wonder if it would help if women who struggle with sex with their husbands were given classes by women who love having sex with their husbands, and can help in some way? What do you think? Would your wife be willing to learn and talk with women who love having sex with their husbands?

 

Or, instead of calling it a "class," maybe it would be good for women who love having sex with their husbands to start a support group for women who struggle with this, in order to give them a place to talk and hopefully grow through talking with women who do love sex and enjoying sex with their husbands.

Edited February 7, 2013 by BetheButterfly

[GoodupsEvil]

JamesM, thanks for investing what must have been a substantial amount of time in evaluating and responding to my thread here. I will do my best to clarify the things you requested.

 

What type of infidelities and how did the two of you resolve the issues? Was it while you were engaged?

 

When I was in high school and university I stepped out a few times. Never anything sustained or anything beyond typical making out, etc.

 

She slept with a co-worker one time when I had been out of the country working for 6 months. All of the was more than 10 years ago, and prior to our engagement. She battled low self esteem and depression for more than a year in response to her infidelity, even to the extent that she developed a psychosomatic STD. Repeat visits to gynecologists could not convince her she was condition free.

 

 

You perceived it healthy and you say she did not...could it be that she DID think it enjoyable in the past and her view now clouds her interest back then?

 

I think this is the case. In other conversations when I questioned her directly about the issue, she dismissed me by reminding me that we had sex daily. However, that conversation predated her most recent assertion that our previous sex life was based on her interest in satisfying my sexual needs. This came as an outgrowth of the article she found on sexual aversion, which indicated the condition typically originates in couples where one partner has a greater sexual need than the other, and the less motivated partner feels compelled to satisfy the other.

 

How often did you have sex and who initiated it? Do you have any sex now and how does it usually go?

 

Did she seem to have orgasms? Did she seem to enjoy cuddling et al? Was there ever an issue with sex at the beginning? Did she ever make comments that gave an indication of her lack of interest and maybe you heard them but blew them off?

 

We used to have sex 5-6 times a week, pre-kids. It could have been initiated by either partner. We do have sex now, 1-2 times a month (for the last 6 months) and exclusively when she is ovulating. I can't say that I feel great about this, and in our most recent conversation regarding this issue (last Sunday) I told her I felt like a sperm donor, and she responded with indignation "you are my husband." Still...

 

There was never an issue with sex at the beginning. We were young and had nothing to do but spend hours in bed together. Which we did. I am not anticipating a return of that status, by any stretch, but it is how we spent the first few years of our relationship (ages 16-18). She did have orgasms before. Though not for some time now. It is an issue for me, but one I do not feel I have the latitude to broach with her. Due in large part to the fact that the sexual acts that resulted in the most consistent climaxes for her have been black listed by her. I would love to be able to make my wife orgasm again.

 

She did make overtures for less sexually activity after the birth of our daughter, but then, as I mentioned before, continued to initiate sex, which she felt compelled to do on my behalf. I was admittedly confused by this, and turned a blind eye to some of the more telling signs that problems were festering. I admit my culpability, and have already made changes to be more attentive.

 

 

did she often complain about doing all of the work?

 

No, I have always done most of the work in the house (80-20%). She did complain for a while when my business was not doing well and I did not provide a stable income. That is no longer an issue however, as my business is not only profitable, but provides me substantial latitude in my schedule to make provisions for watching our kids. We use no pay services for child care.

 

 

And this lack of "we" in your marriage could easily still be there. Pressuring her for sex when she does not want it means that in her mind sex becomes a means to satisfy your needs and no longer having anything to do with her.

 

In attempting to articulate and answer these questions, I have been having a bit of an internal debate. I am not a sexually aggressive person, and for me, my wife's acceptance of me as a partner has always been a validation. She is acutely aware of this, to the extent that she saw it as her role to initiate most sex for the first part of our lives together. And when I say "pressure her for sex", I want to be absolutely clear that I have never gone past an initial rejection for intimacy. If she says "No", I will leave it at that, however, it does affect me by weakening my confidence in our relationship. Not on an isolated incident basis, but when it began to become a regular pattern of behavior, it did have a substantial effect on me. To avoid what she observed in my behavior as a response to her rejections, she would initiate sex without really desiring too. It was in this way that I "pressured her for sex". I am not even remotely attempting to shift blame. As I stated before, I was aware of what was happening, but between hoping to have things return to a more desirable state and my need for validation, I made poor choices.

 

Please explain.

During sex in the middle of the night perhaps 6-8 months ago, she asked me to stop, and she felt as though I persisted despite her request. My memory of the event is very different, and we have discussed as much in therapy. I recollect being surprised at her asking me to stop, as we had been having sex in various stages for more than 30 minutes by that time. However, I did stop immediately. She insists that I did not, and she had to ask me several times. In my opinion, my memory doesn't really matter, and I have told her as much. The event was traumatic for her, and insisting "that's not how it happened!" is not going to make any headway.

 

She lost trust in me for a few months, but has since assured me several times that she knows that is not indicative of my character and she has grown to trust me again.

 

RE THERAPY What happened? How did that go? Did it help at all?

 

We got to air out some issues together that perhaps would otherwise still be festering. In that regard it was successful. She found the experience too stressful and will no longer attend sessions with me. She claims it made things between us worse, and I would second the notion.

 

 

Was your PRIMARY goal for reading all about sex or was it about growing the marriage? Be honest. Was your focus on how to fix her or how to fix us? And did you point things out to her and let her know what she needed to do to fix herself, or did you try new techniques to improve the marriage? Did she ever read any books or did she work while in therapy? Or was this all you?

 

I read them to better my marriage. She said she was contemplating divorce. I am fully invested in maintaining my marriage to the woman I love. I read them to improve our marriage and myself. I shared none of the insights I gleaned with her, primarily so that it would be overtly clear that the work was for bettering myself. She started to read one book, The Perfect Wife (or something) and didn't make it past the first chapter...

 

What kind of space? Separation? Or more time alone? Why do you think she is committed to your marriage?

 

"Space" is her way of asking for no pressure or mention of sex. Space from sex, not space from me. Weird as hell to me. She still desires emotional, intellectual, and marginal spiritual intimacy with me. She also enjoys what she terms Friendship Level physical intimacy with me (holding hands, kissing, cuddling, et al). All of this puts me in a mood to make love to my wife, which is not in the cards at the moment. This is the genesis of my frustration.

 

She has told me she is commited, will never leave me, and no longer considers divorce. Her treatment of me is substantially better now than even 6 months ago, though not without relapse.

 

How will giving her space help heal the marriage?

 

Not entirely clear on that myself. I trust her interest and knowledge of self to be the guides in this. I asked in our conversation on Sunday for regular updates on her progress. Not being apprised was leading to increased frustration on my part.

 

Question: Are you totally committed to this marriage and willing to do what it takes to change things even if right now it appears that she isn't...even if it takes ten months or even ten years? Do you truly love her enough to do that?

 

Yes. I am fully invested in that process even now. It would take a substantial event to alter me from that path.

 

Does she hold hands or cuddle or kiss with that loving look in her eyes? Does she initiate the kissing and cuddling? Or does she indicate that she is "afraid" that you will want more? Has she initiated sex since she asked for space?

 

Yes to all of the above.

 

Did she read it for help and advice or did she use it as an excuse?

 

She read it on Sunday after our conversation as a means of clarifying to me her position. I am not fully of the opinion she meets all of the text book criteria for a Sexual Aversion diagnosis, but she offered it up as a means of helping me to understand where she is coming from.

 

 

What does she do?

 

Have you told her she is slovenly? And do you mean re house or also how she dresses?

 

Is she overweight? Are you overweight?

 

She is a nurse. Yes, I told her many times when our relationship could better stand the stress that I don't appreciate having to pick up after her.

She takes excellent care of her physical appearance, and was overweight/borderline obese until she began exercising a year ago. She is now a healthy weight and highly appealing to me, though she herself can be a derisive critic of her appearance.

 

 

Does she cook?

 

Not really, to be honest. She does try, a couple of times a week. Usually what happens is she will cook for the kids and not for me.

 

Have you considered hiring a housekeeper even if part time and for a short term solution?

 

I would love to, but we live a highly frugal lifestyle, well below our means. We would likely invest in other luxuries first.

 

 

Are you sure it was one time? (Not meaning to make you doubt).

No problem. I am as sure as anyone can be.

 

 

Actually, if she cheated, then she would have accounted for unaccounted time. But I don't see that as the problem...yet.

I hear you. And thanks to Lik, I have been running this through my mind a bit in the last few days. "how well can you really know a person...blah blah blah"...But I am still of the mind that it is not the case.

 

 

Does she complain that you are not taking the time to listen to her or talk with her? Is there ANYONE that could be a close friend and who spends time with?

No, I am a good listener and enjoy talking to my wife. She talks to her mom, some coworkers, and participates in some forums online actively. She does not have what I would call friends.

 

 

Does she express her love now as she did in the past...or is it different?

 

Differently, for sure. She is not nearly as interested in meeting my needs. When she does express her love for me, it is almost like she is coming out of a sedated state and realizes I am there.

 

You say "we" are working on the sexual relationship....is it WE or YOU?

 

I trust she is, that is, after all, what all of this "Space" is for. I am going to pursue my first requested progress update this evening. I was told on Sunday that she would need a few days, and that has certainly elapsed. I have moderated expectations, but I want to be clear that I am serious about needing to be kept apprised.

 

This happens to other women. Mine did a little but not nearly enough to be an issue. It healed properly. But if she feels that she is "ugly" when you two have sex, then it could keep her from enjoying sex. However, if her aversion to sex began before this happened, then this isn't the issue. However, having said that, she may THINK her aversion began before but it may still be simply related to this.

 

She has stated that it is an issue for her, and she does feel "ugly". I told her it was not an issue for me, and she got pissed, claiming I was invalidating her issues. This I believe was an outgrowth of her feeling pressure for sex from me. "He will say anything" kind of thought process. I clarified my position and she was appropriately apologetic and appreciative.

 

You have a great attitude and your wife should be pleased with your commitment to solving this.

 

She seems to be genuinely appreciative and moving towards reconciliation. It is the interim that I am concerned about.

 

I may not be a sexually aggressive person, but I am highly sexual. Not having sex as a part of my marriage is a real challenge, and for a while, I thought a deal breaker. I am no longer of that mind, I know that much. What I do not know, is how to become complacent, even just for a short time, with Friendship Level physical intimacy.

 

My immediate plans are to be kept apprised of progress, and to investigate more into feminine sexuality (I am reading "a womans experince of sex") and to pursue utilization of LS as a means of journaling my experience and sharing/receiving feedback.

 

Thanks again for the lengthy response. I have been at this for an hour...(another benefit of being self employed ) so I can assume you spent at least an equal amount of time with no vested interest other than helping.

Edited February 7, 2013 by GoodupsEvil

[Mr. Lucky]

If you have been having actual sex for 30 minutes (penetrative intercourse, i.e. actual sex) and aren't finished by then you are doing something wrong.

 

For all the b.s. artists who may post claiming they go at it 2-3 hours at a time, get a stop watch.

 

If all your parts are working, actual sex takes around 5 to 15 minutes, tops.

Boy, my wife would not be happy with you ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JamesM]

JamesM, thanks for investing what must have been a substantial amount of time in evaluating and responding to my thread here. I will do my best to clarify the things you requested.

 

You are welcome. If a thread fascinates me or for some reason it resonates with me, then time seems to go quickly when I respond. And thanks for the clarifications. I will try to respond.

 

You may notice that I am avoiding responses to some who respond to your posts. I could get involved with showing why from my personal experiences I believe they are right...or wrong, but that would be counterproductive.

 

When I was in high school and university I stepped out a few times. Never anything sustained or anything beyond typical making out, etc.

 

You were both very young. And you both are younger than I thought. I don't know if age plays a factor in all of this, but it is something to consider.

 

She slept with a co-worker one time when I had been out of the country working for 6 months.

 

Again, I assume it was only once. She battled guilt more than low self esteem probably. Or rather guilt brought about the rest.

 

I think this is the case. In other conversations when I questioned her directly about the issue, she dismissed me by reminding me that we had sex daily. However, that conversation predated her most recent assertion that our previous sex life was based on her interest in satisfying my sexual needs. This came as an outgrowth of the article she found on sexual aversion, which indicated the condition typically originates in couples where one partner has a greater sexual need than the other, and the less motivated partner feels compelled to satisfy the other.

 

If she had a psychosomatic STD, then I can only imagine how she determined that she has an aversion to sex. BTW, my own wife can do this too. She is also a nurse, and there is something about taking care of the sick that makes many nurses become "ill" themselves. She has had the worst illnesses...that ended up being something simple. But my point is...her feelings about the past started with this article. She is fitting her problems into a mold perhaps as a way to validate her problem. Then it isn't her problem but a condition. This is harder to tackle unless she takes responsibility and assumes it is "our" problem and solvable.

 

We do have sex now, 1-2 times a month (for the last 6 months) and exclusively when she is ovulating. I can't say that I feel great about this, and in our most recent conversation regarding this issue (last Sunday) I told her I felt like a sperm donor, and she responded with indignation "you are my husband." Still...

 

Advice from a guy who had your exact feelings: enjoy every time and appreciate every moment. Don't act at all like the sex was less than perfect. Seriously. She needs to know that you enjoy it for the closeness and not for the act itself. What will happen based on my own experience is that she will feel that she needs to measure up to a standard and then she will lose even more interest in sex. We had that much and then it went down to twice in twelve MONTHS. Yes, twice a year. Treat sex like the mutual expression of love that you want.

 

She did have orgasms before. Though not for some time now. It is an issue for me, but one I do not feel I have the latitude to broach with her. Due in large part to the fact that the sexual acts that resulted in the most consistent climaxes for her have been black listed by her. I would love to be able to make my wife orgasm again.

 

I know the feeling. And if I could give advice again, then I will say...don't ever mention how you wish she would have an orgasm. She will look at this as simply your way of measuring how good sex is and not that you want her to enjoy it more. Yes, I was there. It was many years before she had an orgasm...which was just a couple of weeks ago. Back then I always pushed her to have an orgasm which made her try but fail. And this contributed to our problem.

 

I am guessing that oral sex is blacklisted? That is the best way for her to enjoy an orgasm.

 

She did make overtures for less sexually activity after the birth of our daughter, but then, as I mentioned before, continued to initiate sex, which she felt compelled to do on my behalf. I was admittedly confused by this, and turned a blind eye to some of the more telling signs that problems were festering. I admit my culpability, and have already made changes to be more attentive.

 

My wife also gave hints a number of years ago (ten) that sex was not as enjoyable. I figured I would deal with it some day ion the future which made things worse quicker. If only I had reacted sooner, then I think our marriage would be better than it was. Don't kick yourself...you are tackling it now. And BTW, I will probably say this often: don't give up no matter how frustrating it is.

 

No, I have always done most of the work in the house (80-20%). She did complain for a while when my business was not doing well and I did not provide a stable income. That is no longer an issue however, as my business is not only profitable, but provides me substantial latitude in my schedule to make provisions for watching our kids. We use no pay services for child care.

 

This is great for the family...and something that she should appreciate. Don't let this problem take away anything that you already give and are for the family. Don't let it kill your confidence.

 

She is acutely aware of this, to the extent that she saw it as her role to initiate most sex for the first part of our lives together. And when I say "pressure her for sex", I want to be absolutely clear that I have never gone past an initial rejection for intimacy. If she says "No", I will leave it at that, however, it does affect me by weakening my confidence in our relationship.

 

I know how you feel. I also know that you may need to be a little more assertive in initiating sex. Kinda a paradox under the circumstances, but it will make her feel more desirable if you do pursue her with patience but yet desire without appearing harassing. My wife as sexually abused so I have that to keep in mind as well otherwise she remembers the past. However, wait awhile before you pursue her. Do it when she is ready.

 

Keep confident..I posted on whatever's thread what I suggest there.

 

To avoid what she observed in my behavior as a response to her rejections, she would initiate sex without really desiring too. It was in this way that I "pressured her for sex". I am not even remotely attempting to shift blame. As I stated before, I was aware of what was happening, but between hoping to have things return to a more desirable state and my need for validation, I made poor choices.

 

It happens...don't kick yourself. The issue here is that she needed to initiate to avoid your pouting ( I know...I did it too ). Then it no longer was an expression of mutual love but it was a way to make you happy. She loves you but sex was not for her an expression of that. It became a validation of your manhood.

 

During sex in the middle of the night perhaps 6-8 months ago, she asked me to stop, and she felt as though I persisted despite her request.

 

Did she feel as if she were being raped? My wife had a moment like that probably ten or twelve years ago, and I am a gentle person. Yet with her past and her feeling that she HAD to have sex with me...it was akin to rape to her. Again, a sign I ignored.

 

In my opinion, my memory doesn't really matter, and I have told her as much. The event was traumatic for her, and insisting "that's not how it happened!" is not going to make any headway.

 

Correct...her perception is her reality.

 

She lost trust in me for a few months, but has since assured me several times that she knows that is not indicative of my character and she has grown to trust me again.

 

Good. Question: has she ever been raped or sexually abused?

 

She found the experience too stressful and will no longer attend sessions with me. She claims it made things between us worse, and I would second the notion.

 

It is stressful, and for many couples it is unnecessary. In our case, we never went to MC. Some would say that if we had our problems would have been over sooner. Possible. But with my wife's past, it would have been detrimental to us as she has had much counseling for her abuse and would have had to relive it all over again.

 

I read them to better my marriage. She said she was contemplating divorce.

 

Good. It got that bad, huh? As for her not wanting to read, I am not surprised at all. You seem like the one who does the research. My wife doesn't like to read either. I am the one who looks up stuff for her and she trusts me to solve issues. It is NOT a lack of desire to solve a problem, but it is not how her mind works. Don't think your wife has a lack of desire to fix this based on her lack of desire to read.

 

"Space" is her way of asking for no pressure or mention of sex. Space from sex, not space from me. Weird as hell to me. She still desires emotional, intellectual, and marginal spiritual intimacy with me. She also enjoys what she terms Friendship Level physical intimacy with me (holding hands, kissing, cuddling, et al). All of this puts me in a mood to make love to my wife, which is not in the cards at the moment. This is the genesis of my frustration.

 

It is weird. I wonder what caused her aversion. It may only be a temporary mental thing as a way to explain her feelings. My wife never wanted much cuddling or kissing, so you do have an advantage. It can be frustrating, but it is better than her not wanting physical contact. Let her lead until she gives a signal and then pursue gently.

 

She has told me she is commited, will never leave me, and no longer considers divorce. Her treatment of me is substantially better now than even 6 months ago, though not without relapse.

 

This is good.

 

I asked in our conversation on Sunday for regular updates on her progress. Not being apprised was leading to increased frustration on my part.

 

This is still confusing to me. What does she need to recover from?

 

Yes. I am fully invested in that process even now. It would take a substantial event to alter me from that path.

 

Excellent. She is a lucky woman.

 

Yes to all of the above.

 

Your situation is far from hopeless IMO.

 

she offered it up as a means of helping me to understand where she is coming from.

 

At least she is trying to understand what is going on. If she feels that she isn't pressured, then maybe she will feel less aversion. I just hope that she doesn't decide this is a condition that is life long and out of her control.

 

Have you completely laid off asking for sex? And for how long? Act like sex with her is totally unnecessary for awhile (weeks). Still kiss and cuddle with NO indication that you need more (even if that means you take care of yourself periodically). Give yourself more power and her less. I know I said to pursue her more, but before you get to that point, I wonder if she needs to feel that you don't NEED her for sex but you simply want sex as a way to express your love for her. You can say it all you want, but if you show resentment when you don't get it, then you show that you need the release and not the mutual expression of love.

 

She may feel as my wife said, "I feel like a hole for you. Any woman could fill the position that you want." It wasn't true, but it was hard to convince her otherwise at the time.

 

She is a nurse. Yes, I told her many times when our relationship could better stand the stress that I don't appreciate having to pick up after her.

She takes excellent care of her physical appearance, and was overweight/borderline obese until she began exercising a year ago. She is now a healthy weight and highly appealing to me, though she herself can be a derisive critic of her appearance.

 

So, she is messy. At least she takes care of herself. Try to accept her weakness and love her strengths. My wife is not messy but she has other weaknesses. For instance, she has a tough time keeping weight off. She eats what is not good for her. She is not disciplined when she starts something. Me...the opposite. That is one reason why we get along. She is impulsive and fun loving, passionate and impish. Me...not as much.

 

Focus on her qualities...and pick up behind her without a word or attitude.

 

 

Not really, to be honest. She does try, a couple of times a week. Usually what happens is she will cook for the kids and not for me.

 

At least she takes care of her kids...not all women do this. Yes, mine does. My wife also cooks for me, but then one of my weaknesses is (which she has complained about) I hate cooking. period. She would love it if I would cook like you do.

 

I would love to, but we live a highly frugal lifestyle, well below our means. We would likely invest in other luxuries first.

 

Some things are a necessity even though they seem like a luxury. This may be a necessity for her while a luxury for you. Keep it on the list.

 

I hear you. And thanks to Lik, I have been running this through my mind a bit in the last few days. "how well can you really know a person...blah blah blah"...But I am still of the mind that it is not the case.

 

Yeah, that is one that I could start responding to his/her posts. I know the feeling. I have had posters respond like that to my threads in the past, and I let their opinions override the more positive and applicable posts. Again, read it all and apply what YOU think fits. Even Lik may have something you can use.

 

I am a good listener and enjoy talking to my wife. She talks to her mom, some coworkers, and participates in some forums online actively. She does not have what I would call friends.

 

Good. Do not let your friendship suffer. I made this mistake.

 

 

Differently, for sure. She is not nearly as interested in meeting my needs. When she does express her love for me, it is almost like she is coming out of a sedated state and realizes I am there.

 

Strange. Why do you think it is?

 

 

I trust she is, that is, after all, what all of this "Space" is for. I am going to pursue my first requested progress update this evening. I was told on Sunday that she would need a few days, and that has certainly elapsed. I have moderated expectations, but I want to be clear that I am serious about needing to be kept apprised.

 

Perhaps it may be best to let her initiate this conversation? You know best. Let her take responsibility. Could she feel pressured if you keep after her? Let her give progress reports when she is ready.

 

She has stated that it is an issue for her, and she does feel "ugly". I told her it was not an issue for me, and she got pissed, claiming I was invalidating her issues. This I believe was an outgrowth of her feeling pressure for sex from me. "He will say anything" kind of thought process. I clarified my position and she was appropriately apologetic and appreciative.

 

I can see this. She may not have believed you either.

 

She seems to be genuinely appreciative and moving towards reconciliation. It is the interim that I am concerned about.

 

Patience, my friend. If I could give you a date when your marriage would be as you wish, then it would be so much easier. No one can do that. Believe that it will be better and don't panic if it takes longer than you hope. Enjoy her as she is and love her as she is. This may speed the "process" up.

 

I may not be a sexually aggressive person, but I am highly sexual. Not having sex as a part of my marriage is a real challenge, and for a while, I thought a deal breaker. I am no longer of that mind, I know that much. What I do not know, is how to become complacent, even just for a short time, with Friendship Level physical intimacy.

 

I am not a highly sexual person. This I have discovered. However, when there is no sex, then it becomes more of a focus. Don't become complacent, but perhaps try to become more indifferent to it.

 

My immediate plans are to be kept apprised of progress, and to investigate more into feminine sexuality (I am reading "a womans experince of sex") and to pursue utilization of LS as a means of journaling my experience and sharing/receiving feedback.

 

Good. Focus on every aspect of your relationship, too. Focus on yourself. Don't focus too much on her and make her the issue. BTDT..add another t-shirt.

 

Thanks again for the lengthy response. I have been at this for an hour...(another benefit of being self employed ) so I can assume you spent at least an equal amount of time with no vested interest other than helping.

 

Don't even ask! If it is a help to you, then it is all worth it. I have always hoped that my years of frustration may end up be sued for helping others. Perhaps there is a purpose to it all.

 

Good luck. You sound like an optimist and you seem persistent in finding an answer. I think you will.