DesperateToughGuy Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Wow. I'm in pieces. I feel I am going crazy, have no reference to reality anymore, and unfortunately nobody close to me who can objectively help/listen. I broke up with my girlfriend of 2.25 years a few days ago. It was rather out of the blue, although it took me almost a month to go through with it and really clarify my ideas. I broke up with her because I didn't feel "in love" with her anymore, although now after the breakup I'm more confused than ever. Our relationship has been great. I truly loved her, and she still loves me above anything else. I started dating her when I was 25 and I am now turning 28. She is 5 years older than me, and gave up her dream of having children, for me, because from the beginning I made it clear I didn't want any. From the beginning we had both intense feelings and experiences together, but also from the very beginning some fundamental personality differences. Throughout our relationship we kept having highs and lows, the highs definitely more remarkable than the lows, yet the lows weren't "You can't go drink at the bar!" kind of lows, but rather "I'm an atheist and you're a God fearing Christian", or "I work my ass off to achieve a goal and you live vicariously through Facebook" kind of lows. I felt from early on that we had these fundamental differences, but we also had from the beginning incredible sex and fantastic experiences, along with great conversation. Over the years, these lows kept adding up on my end. My rationale over the past few weeks has been that those lows were hurting me more than her, and I was always the one carrying the weight of them and their implications, and that we simply are so different in personality that this weight was doomed to pile up. Further, as time progressed, and especially over the last few months, it felt to me as if I was the one carrying ALL the load in the relationship: Money, motivation, initiative. Related to this, I have been awful at telling her about the real bad lows: I would tell her when she'd **** something up bad, but if I thought something was just "different personality", I wouldn't mention it, thinking it wouldn't help. She has made me feel loved throughout our relationship, yet at the same my efforts to sustain the relationship never felt reciprocated or appreciated. This past month her brother has visited and stayed with us, and as I saw him, a mirror image of her, I was able to discern in him the exact personality traits that I didn't like in her, and that really triggered the avalanche of my loss of love. We broke up Friday. We still live together and moved into separate rooms. Not ideal, I KNOW. Since Friday I have been feeling very bad about this whole thing, despite the fact that just before breaking up I was SO sure about it. Today we had another exhaustive talk after the first one Friday. She told me how she felt she showed me every day how she appreciated my efforts, how much she put into the relationship, and how caught by surprise she was about the breakup. She also told me about my parents, who stayed with us over Christmas. Apparently, they treated her like crap the entire time, made her feel like **** (she has been previously married) and repeatedly assumed in front of her that she wasn't good for me. My father mentioned he thought she was taking advantage of me and asked me to be careful, but I never discerned such a deep dislike. Today she threw all of this at me, and more, and I am not utterly and completely LOST. I thought just a few days ago that I didn't love her anymore and that it was truly time to end it, now it hurts to think about having lost her forever. It might simply be the guilty feelings, it might be seeing her cry that triggers these instincts, I DON'T KNOW ANYMORE. She planted the seed that it might have been my parent's influence on me that moved me to act, and I am lost between not knowing if I still have feelings and wondering if it was my parents who hypnotised me. I have a feeling I need time without her, time to digest everything and clear my head - yet she also says it doesn't matter because it's over forever (though I never believe anything is over forever). I don't want to jump back in because my hormones are playing havoc, neither do I want to forever lose something that might have been better than I realized. Thanks for listening...
stevie_23 Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 I think if it was her parents’ influence on you, you would still be with her. And also, you mentioned many things unrelated to anything to do with what her parents think that seem to be the real, more clear, reasons for you to feel how you did which then resulted in you feeling it’s best to leave the relationship. It seems to me that you two have some fairly large personality differences in terms of being truly compatible. That of course doesn’t mean you can’t love her or care for her, or even maybe want to be with her, but it may mean a relationship between you will not work to make BOTH of you happy enough for it to be maintained. I think this may be the case. She feels she did everything she could to show you she loved and appreciated you. And you feel that while you DID feel loved by her, that she didn’t “try” in the relationship the same way, or as much, as you did. This sort of differing viewpoint may simply mean you can’t be happy together in the long term, as you have now found. It’s normal to feel confused and second guess yourself when you make the final decision to end a relationship with someone so important to you. Once it’s done, the expectations and pressure and disappointments and issues kind of evaporate because they’re no longer relevant, however the love and feelings for that person don’t just switch off. And the good times and the being used to that sort of comfort zone and routine also take a while to adjust to not being there anymore. These things also don’t mean a relationship can actually function to make both of you happy. People show love and appreciation differently. I’ve read that there are a few different “types” in terms of showing love in a relationship. There’re the people that value DOING things for the other person, such as household chores, paying bills, the mundane practical, domestic things. To have their partner do this stuff makes them feel loved. To other people, GIVING things shows love. Little gifts, making things, etc. To other people, WORDS shows love. Saying “I love you”, etc. And to other people, physical affection is a show of love. Hugging, holding, kissing, touching. So if you’re with a partner who has a different “love expression type” than you, it may make you both feel like they don’t appreciate or work to maintain the relationship as much as if you share the same “type”. Just a thought. 2
HaveFaithxx Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 I don't think if you have personality differences that means you shouldnt be in a relationship together. My parents couldnt be more different from eachother. My Dad was 46 years older than my mom. They married when he was 71 and she was 25, and were happily married for 19 years until my dad passed away. They obviously had completely different backgrounds and experiences. My Dad lived through both World wars and my mom was born after the 2ndWW. They really had everything going against them. It was not an easy marriage, but they were very loyal to eachother and loved eachtoher. I guess it depends what these personality traits are not that you are so different from eachother. 1
destroyed4sho Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Both of these previous posts nailed it. First, you don't have to have exactly the same personality to have a loving and true relationship with each other. Differences make things interesting. Second, she shows her love differently than you. I remember my ex told me the same thing that I don't do anything for her or give enough. But I thought that I did so much! I bought her gifts, took care of her when she was sick (and she was sick often) and always affectionate when around her. I loved her sooo much...but to her it wasn't enough. She showed me love (according to her) by cooking, handling finances, ordering food, picking me up etc....I didn't do those things often and she would get mad. It is so difficult to find someone that truly loves you. If someone has real love for you, the type that is everlasting...I don't think you should let them go. Its so hard to find. 1
destroyed4sho Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Parents sometimes get in the way of true happiness. If you think she is for you, go for it. I believe that your parents want the best for you, but they can't feel what is in your heart.
Author DesperateToughGuy Posted February 5, 2013 Author Posted February 5, 2013 It was *my* parents, not her's, who might have influenced me. Anyway. What are those character differences that just a few days ago seemed to matter so much? - She lives vicariously through others and through Facebook. I create my own life. - She talks about people, so so much, and about circumstances, and who did what why. I talk about ideas and concepts and philosophical thoughts, politics, etc. - I am a convinced atheist. But I live and let live. She's a devout God worshipper. She also lives and let's live. But we just don't connect on this level, at all. - She waits - for things to get better, for a job to come flying in, for her homework to get magically done, for me to organize the trips, for me to tell her what to wear. I do - I procrastinate, but I do, I get after **** and organize and constantly plan and scheme. - She needs a plan. I fly by the seat of my pants. - She wants children. She gave up that need for me, but deep inside she wants them. I don't. Not now. I might, in 10 years, when she's possibly too old for children. - I am an optimist and a realist, 100% of the time, I am happy (well, not quite happy right this moment). She is a pessimist and a dreamer. Deep inside she expects fairy-tale magic from life, on the outside she is mostly pessimistic or sad/depressed about situations. - She cares what others think of her. A LOT. I couldn't care less what others think of me. Lots of attrition here for many reasons. Writing this list out like this makes it seem almost childish. At the same time they feel like such fundamental differences that bound us to keep disagreeing on things. She does love me. Almost unconditionally. And I did love her a lot. But those differences above always dug at me, to the point that when we watched The Notebook together a few months ago, I was sad that I didn't feel about her like the guy in the movie does about his girl... Thanks for the input on the types of "love language". I had previously heard of such a concept, but it's good to read about it again. What if our love language is entirely different? My love language is definitely "DOING" - cook for her, drive for her, fix her car for her, pay for her, help her do homework, etc. I don't really know what kind of love language I need though? Her love language? I can't really tell - maybe it was telling HER friends how much she loved me. Somehow she did make me feel very loved and at the same time very unappreciated.
stevie_23 Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Oops, sorry. For some reason thought it was her parents, not your’s. The only influence I see in your parents’ opinions of her is that they considered she was taking advantage of you / taking you for granted. Did they think she wasn’t doing enough to maintain the relationship, like you did? Anyway, so….your personality differences as you listed them. You live your life actively. You feel she lives passively and vicariously through online methods. Why does this bother you exactly? Is it important to you for a partner to have their own interests and activities and really LIVE their lives? You also mention she is passive in that she waits for things to happen, whereas you take action. Do you view her way of living as kind of lethargic or indifferent in general, and do you in turn view her feelings and actions towards you (in terms of how much effort she put into your relationship) that way as well? Passive…indifferent to an extent? In terms of her needing a plan, is this because she is kind of more passive and feels if she has a plan, she can just make that plan and then follow the steps previously set down and not have to really think or act too much? Maybe she doesn’t feel overly capable in life, and so holds back. Whereas you, as a deeper thinker and more active liver, are different. She talks about people and who did what, etc. Gossip basically? You’re more deep, philosophical, conceptual perhaps? This is a common difference between people. Same thing with the religion. You’ve thought most likely at length about your religious preferences and beliefs. She most likely has not. It’s good you both don’t push your beliefs on each other, but…if you WANT to connect in that way, you probably won’t ever do so. It’s a similar thing to my ex. He and his wife care for each other, but he’s more like you and she’s more like your ex. They never discuss anything “deep” because she’s not interested, can’t relate. She goes to church every Sunday, he never goes with her. Tension. Issues. Dissatisfaction. Neither are WRONG. They’re just different. And they live and let live, but there is always that thread of unfulfilment between them. The children thing may be a big deal, depending on how much she wants children and if she ever expected you to change, despite what you always told her about not wanting them. I don’t want children either and if any of my partners really did, it’d be a HUGE problem. The fact she has so far been willing to give up the possibility of having children SHOULD potentially show how much she loves and wants to be with you, however…it MAY also show that passivity she lives her life with in general, you know? (How old is she by the way? You mentioned doing homework. If she’s doing homework, she sounds pretty young, and all of this may change in a few years) In terms of the optimist vs pessimist and realistic vs dreamer, yeah. This can be hard, but it CAN work in a relationship. You can ground each other and support each other, if you’re both so inclined. She cares a lot of what people think of her. As I said above, maybe she doesn’t feel overly capable or secure or confident in her life and herself, whereas you do. It really is a completely different mindset between those who lack confidence and those who have it. TOTALLY different. None of these things are childish. Ultimately, it’s hard to pinpoint personality differences that actually cause enough problems within the relationship to make you unhappy enough to want to end it. As soon as you start to get into specifics, they often feel silly or inaccurate or just not sufficient for how you feel. But it doesn’t mean your feelings are based on silliness or nothing at all. Lastly, if your love language is different, and you feel loved and appreciated by your partner doing things for you and you give love back by doing those same things, it’s best to tell her. And hopefully she makes an effort to do those things, even if she herself gains no real satisfaction or understanding by doing it. You said you’re not sure what kind of love language you need? Well, I would say, as I said above, if you GIVE love in that specific way you mentioned, then you would most likely need to RECEIVE it in a similar way to understand / appreciate it as making you feel loved and “right” in your relationship. Otherwise, think of how you’d feel (how secure, how loved and how appreciated above all else) if she were to… - Hold you and stroke your arm gently while watching a movie together on the couch - Take out the trash for you, then make you dinner and do the dishes after - Brought you home some flowers or chocolates - Told you she loved you - Engaged you in a deep philosophical discussion that stimulated your mind (That last one is also a form of showing love – the mental side. I forgot that in my original post) So, which one makes you feel the best in terms of security and appreciation, and love in general? If she made you feel loved and yet unappreciated, this says to me that you know she loved you but the ways she behaved in the relationship were not adequate for your needs. Also, you mentioned maybe her love style is telling her friends she loved you. This isn’t really a love style. It’s her expressing she loved you, but not actually SHOWING you or BEHAVING in any relevant way that love in your own relationship, you know? How DID she make you feel loved exactly? What did she do or say that made you feel so loved? 1
Author DesperateToughGuy Posted February 5, 2013 Author Posted February 5, 2013 Wow. Thank you SO much for this reply! There goes my 6am training, I'll be up thinking about it all night... She is 33, I am 28. She is back in school, because when she was younger she studied Theology. Not for any good reason other than it was the easiest thing she fell into. She repeatedly mentioned she wanted to go back to school early in the relationship, so after a year of motivating her and encouraging her she finally went for it. After which I had to still do a lot of motivating and encouraging to help her chose her path in school and help her through Math classes. I guess the most important question to answer is, how DID she make me feel loved? It might also be the hardest, because it's so ... abstract .... The way she looked at me. The way she cuddled me at night (we both love cuddling to sleep). The way she listened to me when I told her of my latest & greatest plan. The way she accepted every single one of my flaws. The way she looked up to me when I explained a difficult Math concept or how I fixed her car engine. But it in the end, the points you make are extremely important. One BIG part of my love language must indeed be to engage in deep philosophical discussion - that's 99% of my relationship with all of my best friends. We sit down, with drinks, and engage in deep discussions, ideas, religion and atheism, politics, etc. And I simply wasn't getting that with her. Some of my love language might be words, too: she would indeed occasionally make me feel good by telling me how much she loved me, or how thankful she was for something, but it 'feels' like it was too rare and just not enough.
stevie_23 Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Oh no! I don’t want you to be up all night analyzing what I said! Lol. In any case, she’s 28 you say? That’s not young. I was picturing that age originally but when you mentioned homework, I suddenly had to switch that to 18-22 and that didn’t quite fit with my initial concept. So ok. She’s old enough to most likely stay as she is in terms of general personality traits for the long term. She just honestly sounds like a very easygoing, passive person in terms of how she lives her life (and by “easygoing” I don’t mean she’s laid back or casual and positive and all that. I just mean she lets things come to her if they’re going to and doesn’t feel the need for much self-imposed action.) Ok, so she made you feel loved by the way she looked at you. That’s you reading into her expression that she loved you. And yeah, I’m sure she DID love you but her looking at you, no matter how tenderly, is not a way to SHOW you she loves you in terms of doing something to maintain and to give back to the relationship. The way she looked up to you. That’s not such a love expression either. It’s just the way it was. Neither here nor there. She felt impressed by your knowledge and expertise and you found that appealing. However, the cuddling at night is reciprocal affection, so that’s good. Her listening to you is good too…showing attentiveness and respect to what you had to say. She accepted every single one of your flaws? You honestly feel that? That’s great, in that case. Basically, the very fact you love someone is not enough to sustain a happy, functional and equal relationship. To love someone is a feeling, and TENDS to result in the person treating their partner very well, with much love, affection and giving. But not always. The feeling on its own isn’t enough sometimes. And also sometimes, no matter how good someone is to you in a relationship, it still won’t be enough if they simply can’t satisfy your intrinsic needs. It does indeed sound as if your love language is word / mentally oriented. Words of love, and mental stimulation and thinking. And it seems that she may have her love language placed in actions such as affection and cuddling and doing things. No words. She doesn’t seem mentally-oriented, whereas you obviously are. How big a problem this is / was is up to you. The person with a higher demand / need for something is always the one who will notice problems relating to the issue earlier. If you find deep fulfillment in having philosophical and intellectual discussions with people important to you and you can’t get that from your partner, then you have to ask yourself how happy you will be, long term, with having to get that need fulfilled by friends only, and not your partner. One single person cannot be expected to be EVERYTHING to another. This is why we have family, friends, colleagues, and partners. Spread the expectation and satisfaction ratio a little, you know? If you expect 100% from one person, and you can’t get it because they’re human and only one person? You’re going to always be disappointed and unfulfilled. That said, in a partner, ideally you want her to satisfy a LOT of what you need. Otherwise this is when people start to drift into forming romantic / intimate / deep emotional bonds with one of their friends instead of their partner. Anyway…more to think about, eh? lol 2
Author DesperateToughGuy Posted February 5, 2013 Author Posted February 5, 2013 Thank you. So much. Definitely a lot to think about. No matter how much she loves me and how much I loved her, in a moment of level hormones like now I truly believe to have made the right choice. We have been different from the beginning in many ways, and had fought through it because we needed each other and because of what we shared. It is not enough anymore. It doesn't change the fact that it breaks my heart to know how sad it makes her.
destroyed4sho Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 I dont agree with stevie...the way someone looks at you reflects what they are freling inside. Just because she didnt make plans for trips, etc...doesnt mean she cant exopess her love thru actions like you want. Did you ever think that maybe since you were the one paying for things that she felt uncomfortable planning an expensive trip? And talking about philosophical topics may be boring to some people. Why would you want someone that has the same interests as you? Things get boring after a while. Bottom line is you seem to have lost respect for her bc you.think she is not sophisticated enough for you or "cool" enough. Not sure if it could work anymore. Sad. Wow, and you even admitted that she has real.love for you. Good luck in findig that again.
Author DesperateToughGuy Posted February 5, 2013 Author Posted February 5, 2013 I dont agree with stevie...the way someone looks at you reflects what they are freling inside. Just because she didnt make plans for trips, etc...doesnt mean she cant exopess her love thru actions like you want. Did you ever think that maybe since you were the one paying for things that she felt uncomfortable planning an expensive trip? And talking about philosophical topics may be boring to some people. Why would you want someone that has the same interests as you? Things get boring after a while. Bottom line is you seem to have lost respect for her bc you.think she is not sophisticated enough for you or "cool" enough. Not sure if it could work anymore. Sad. Wow, and you even admitted that she has real.love for you. Good luck in findig that again. I really can't disagree with anything, yet most of this doesn't feel right. Yes, she does have 'real' love for me. Does it change the fact that I have lost mine for her? Does her love bind me to her? Does the safety of having her love override my own need to fully reciprocate that love towards her? Your thoughts seem valid, yet they seem to be a 'defense' mechanism against never finding love again. We are fundamentally different, I have come to realize more and more, and that IS a problem in a relationship, whether she loves me or not. I am still just as sad as last night, seeing her sad and almost desperate breaks my heart beyond any reason, but I am much clearer about my decision today, and I feel I am doing the right thing. For myself now, and for her in the long run.
destroyed4sho Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Speaking from experience, Real love is hard to find, it doesn't come that often. Write to anyone on this forum, they will tell you! Your young and have a typical case of GIGS....your reasons for leaving her are so SILLY. yes, leaving her would be best for HER in the long-run. Just don't drag it out and tell her now, for her sake. Edited February 5, 2013 by destroyed4sho
stevie_23 Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 I didn’t mean to negate the importance of her looking at him with love and that being an expression of love. I just meant that her simply loving him did not equate to a happy relationship for both of them. The very fact she loved him and that shone through when she looked at him does not change the fact that he isn’t happy. And also, yes it’s true that it IS hard to find someone who truly loves you and accepts you for all you are. And he may take a while to find that again, but even so…he can’t help how he feels. Nobody can help how they feel. They can only do their best to behave in accordance with those feelings and try to move towards greater happiness. He may well end up, in a future relationship, with a woman who is perfect for him on paper, and that stimulates him mentally, but who doesn’t make him feel quite as loved as his ex. But such is the process of life, love and relationships. If you’re not happy, you have to act on it at some stage, and he is doing that. And yes, it’s true – if he is not happy and for all his reasons (even if they may sound petty or small, they still exist and it’s more of a feeling rather than easily articulated reasons), want to end the relationship despite obviously caring about her, then this is for the best. For him, and for her. Both of them should be in a relationship with someone they are blissfully happy with. It's not a fault or anything to assign blame to in terms of ending a relationship with someone you love. The most important thing now is to care for her, respect her and be honest.
destroyed4sho Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Stevie- Yes, but would you agree that if he wanted it to work, he would give her a chance to change and make adjustments? I mean not making plans for a trip or handling money, should not be a deal breaker in a relationship after 2+ years?!
stevie_23 Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Yes, of course if his FEELINGS for her were different to what they are he would want to make it work and give her a chance and really sit down with her and discuss his (and her) feelings, and try VERY hard to make it work. Of course. But maybe he's already done that. And even if he hasn't, if he doesn't FEEL it then no amount of pushing and trying is going to make it work. And those reasons you mention, they're not it. Obviously not. It's the feeling that's relevant, not the specific individual reasons. They're just articulated manifestations of the overall feelings he's having.
destroyed4sho Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Stevie-its the "in love " feeling that he lost and bc he did not have Real love for her to fall back on, his feelings changed and needs to break up with her. Even in a long term relationship you can fall in and out of love many times but its the real love that holds you together. Regardless, this is a typical case of GIGS...ITS JUST GIGS.
Author DesperateToughGuy Posted February 6, 2013 Author Posted February 6, 2013 It might just be that. This **** is complicated and involves a lot of introspection, something I am generally ok at but far from great and still learning. I have tried, many times. We had clashes from the very beginning, and from early on I would occasionally ask myself whether she was right for me. Maybe the "in love" feeling clouded my mind and true feelings and I only now realized that I don't have what you call "real" love for her. The ****ty part is that it too me so long to realize. GIGS or not (what a ****in stupid acronym), feelings are feelings and most of the time they can't be controlled...
destroyed4sho Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Ok Toughguy, its really not that complicated, although you would probably like to think that your situation is special and there is something special about you too. Good luck in finding that truly special girl that sits on your couch and talks about philosophy with you and that is capable of planning a trip. BC those are the most important things in a relationship!!! :-) Btw, I am sure you will find something wrong with her too and boot her out because you were clouded by being "in love" at the moment. I suggest you find yourself and what you truly want in a partner before you go around wasting women's time and tossing people around.
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