How many effing second chances do some people need?

[Ch_11]

Ugh. Where to start?

 

I've been in this relationship for 6 years, 4 of those married. We have a son who's almost 6. My H and I started out as affair partners, but it was LD and not serious. Mainly phone calls and e-mails. You could call it an inappropriate friendship. When I moved to his area for business reasons, my long-term R had ended, and I was single. My H broke up with his W and divorced her. I don't think it was because of me. They had no kids and he said he never loved her. In addition to that, he had a long-term EA with another woman who was married. I think that was the main reason for his W to leave him, even though he never admitted that. But being with this man for a few years now, I can put the pieces together easily.

 

Before we started dating, I was very independent, in the middle of building a life for myself as a new single woman with a new career, in a new town, trying to get over my long-term R of 11 years (no kids, never married). I was busy. I was happy. I was excited. I was content. My now H's courtship was whirlwind, intense, wild, crazy, almost stalkerish. I was drowned in gifts, love and attention. I didn't see the red flags. I thought "wow this is IT". This man truly loves me. I got pregnant and we married. Everything went downhill afterwards. I gave up my job, because he made good money. Gave birth, was a stay at home mum. Liked it. During the course of our R I found out more and more "bad" things. He is away for business a lot, and when he travels he usually gambles a lot, enjoys strippers, and his long-term EA is still present in his life. I don't think they meet a lot, but they talk on the phone, she's still M, and I don't think she would ever leave her H for anyone. That's why I've been feeling like I'm my H's second best choice. We've discussed the subject, but he says they're only friends and yadayada. I don't believe him. If she were just a friend, he wouldn't have to be dishonest about their relationship. It's ridiculous. Whenever we have a discussion about inappropriate behavior on business trips or inappropriate contact with women (his ex-girlfriends, ex-wives or EA-partner), he gets super defensive, angry, throws things and uses abusive language. We've been to MC twice, but all he does is minimize and downplay. I don't get it. I don't know if he's being manipulative or if he just doesn't understand how his behavior hurts me. In my opinion, he's cheating. In my opinion, he's abusive. When the MC asked me if Stan (my H) fills a void in my life, I could only laugh. My life was FINE until he messed it up. I think I filled a void in HIS life. That's why he chased me in a way that is not even normal and healthy. He has been unreasonably jealous. He is afraid I might be cheating. I NEVER cheated. I do not even have the time. And I do not WANT to. And why does he even care, if he himself does it all the time? I do not know why he had to put on that act before we started dating. I do not think he even loved me. He doesn't now, thats for sure. And who was this man 6 years ago? Who knows? He might have been infatuated. He made me a phantasy. Put me on a pedestal. Then wanted to change me. It had nothing to do with love. Ugh. Why didn't I see it? Now it's too late. Now I'm 40 years old with a kindergartner. I'm getting old and ugly. Sorry for the whining. I know it doesn't help. It's just how I feel. Depressed.

 

Anyways, that's the background story. He blames me for being cold and unforgiving. I say I'm just protecting myself from further hurt. I can't give myself to him. There was another incident that hurt me a lot 2.5 weeks ago, and I think I'm done. He's not REALLY apologetic. He says "I'm sorry" a lot, but remorse? Naaaah. I think I'm an enabler and I want to stop. What to do?

 

I can start a new job in March. If we separate, my son will be devastated, but I'll have a small income (way less than before, stupid me, giving up my career for THIS, and my old employer won't hire me, they've of course filled my position with someone cheaper). I will not be able to make a car payment, pay the mortgage, before and after school child care etc. I am SO anxious, stressed out, sad, angry, embarrassed. My h now wants to try mc again. I don't. I think he needs IC to resolve his issues (commitment phobia, attention complex, addictive behavior, FOO issues,.....????) before we can even think about MC. I don't know. I think he just likes his lifestyle. Cake eater. What do y'all think? Is there hope? Or will I be fine on my own? I've talked to a lawyer briefly on the phone. He is an old family friend, but lives in a different state. He doubts there will be alimony. CS plus what I'll be making starting in March will leave me 400 short every month after paying all the bills. I will have to move to an apartment. The house though is the only stability I can give my son during this mayhem, and I don't want him to change school on top of this.

 

Please let me have your opinions. And prayers. And good vibes. I'm lost.

[worldgonewrong]

My H and I started out as affair partners,

 

I say this without an ounce of flippancy, truly: the above statement is one of the reasons why the relationship's foundation was a little shaky to begin with. That there's the root. A certain level of deception was the bedrock for your relationship.

Now the thing is, you require more. You require honesty and fidelity. But that doesn't mean the other person, who helped build that foundation, is ever going to be on the same page, have the same demand for honesty/purity/fidelity. Get what I'm saying?

 

I do send you all prayers, honestly. Your heart & mind are IN your marriage.

But there's a slight 'you reap what you sow' happening here, and I take no comfort in pointing that out.

[Minnie09]

I went through a similar thing and left.

I'm still struggling financially. I say, wait it out, save some money and move to a cheaper place. The child will be fine. Maybe you CAN keep him in the same school for a while. But it's important that you're financially independent. The emotional struggle is enough. You don't want to deal with money issues, a new job, a child that needs you more than ever, a divorce and everything else at the same time. Try to get rid of one problem (money) if possible. You'll have enough to deal with without it.

 

I would not give him a second chance. Doesn't seem like he would be thankful for it for too long.

[Ch_11]

@ worldgonewrong

 

Thanks for reminding me that karma's a bitch. We were never physical before we started dating, though. We met once in my hometown at a party. At that time I was living in my college town and hardly travelled home.*My now H and I exchanged phone numbers after a long night of talking and drinking and partying and we started texting a few times a week. We also e-mailed and talked on the phone every now and then. He was married then. I had*gotten stuck in Denver after graduating from college and found a job there. I ended up dating my roommate and stayed with him for 11 years. We both knew though that we would never get married or have a family. We just met way too young and kinda knew we'd split up at some point. He met somebody else and got engaged right away, and then I moved back to the south, after applying for a number of jobs in my area. I now regret moving back home. Things would've turned out much differently.*

[carhill]

H is who he is.

 

I would recommend IC for you, since you have control of you and your choices, and learn tools to process current events in a way which feels healthier to you.

 

If the M cannot be resolved, that's an outcome. There are ways of providing a stable home for your child regardless of the marital outcome. Search them out and use knowledge as your power.

 

Since he appears to have few boundaries with women, and you both appear to be 'of age', meaning adults long past the age of majority, that's his truth. You have choices. Good luck.

[Cali408]

I know you don't want to hear this, but work on our marriage. Both of you should go to IC and MC. Give him a list of things that must change. If you even suspect him of slipping up, it's over. Period. But don't put yourself and your son into a bad situation. Have faith and give it one more try.

[MidwestUSA]

I say this without an ounce of flippancy, truly: the above statement is one of the reasons why the relationship's foundation was a little shaky to begin with. That there's the root. A certain level of deception was the bedrock for your relationship.

Now the thing is, you require more. You require honesty and fidelity. But that doesn't mean the other person, who helped build that foundation, is ever going to be on the same page, have the same demand for honesty/purity/fidelity. Get what I'm saying?

 

I do send you all prayers, honestly. Your heart & mind are IN your marriage.

But there's a slight 'you reap what you sow' happening here, and I take no comfort in pointing that out.

 

 

Best. Response. Ever. Right to the point. Can't add a thing.

[Steen719]

@ worldgonewrong

 

Thanks for reminding me that karma's a bitch. We were never physical before we started dating, though. We met once in my hometown at a party. At that time I was living in my college town and hardly travelled home.*My now H and I exchanged phone numbers after a long night of talking and drinking and partying and we started texting a few times a week. We also e-mailed and talked on the phone every now and then. He was married then. I had*gotten stuck in Denver after graduating from college and found a job there. I ended up dating my roommate and stayed with him for 11 years. We both knew though that we would never get married or have a family. We just met way too young and kinda knew we'd split up at some point. He met somebody else and got engaged right away, and then I moved back to the south, after applying for a number of jobs in my area. I now regret moving back home. Things would've turned out much differently.*

 

Even if you did not consider what you did an affair, you know he was unfaithful to his wife (long-term EA at least) and that never bodes well for a budding relationship. I think most people in this situation feel that their love is special enough to overcome that, but after a couple of times, I really believe that leopard's spots are his for life.

 

I don't think it would hurt to do MC while he is in IC. You might also benefit from IC since your boundaries have been blurry.

 

He is away for business a lot, and when he travels he usually gambles a lot, enjoys strippers, and his long-term EA is still present in his life. I don't think they meet a lot, but they talk on the phone, she's still M, and I don't think she would ever leave her H for anyone. That's why I've been feeling like I'm my H's second best choice. We've discussed the subject, but he says they're only friends and yadayada. I don't believe him. If she were just a friend, he wouldn't have to be dishonest about their relationship.

 

However, the above would tell me that he may not be on the same page as you are as to what you expect and he may not ever be a faithful partner.

 

Good luck.

[Mr. Lucky]

Even if you did not consider what you did an affair, you know he was unfaithful to his wife (long-term EA at least) and that never bodes well for a budding relationship.

Ch_11, I'm assuming you've just come here for confirmation of what you already know. As pointed above and by others, Your H:

 

1). Was not faithful to his first wife

 

2). Has not been faithful to you

 

Why would you think he would change ???

 

Pick one of two tough choices - stay with a wandering spouse or divorce and start over. Those seem like the options you have...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ch_11]

I don't think my boundaries are blurry. He knows my pov. I was never afraid to speak up. It's just that he doesn't seem to care, makes rules for me that apparently don't apply to himself, while at the same time he seems to expect to get away with everything. If I complain, he calls me an unforgiving nag - really?*

This is my first marriage. He's been married multiple times before. And even though I think it's his issues that caused multiple divorces, he claims that I'm the most stubborn woman he's ever been with. I think he can't love anyone long-term. He ends up disrespecting every woman he's seriously involved with. And no, I didn't know that 5 years ago. I've just figured it out over time. For this reason, I don't think there's hope.

[Mr. Lucky]

He's been married multiple times before.

Strike three ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Steen719]

I don't think my boundaries are blurry. He knows my pov. I was never afraid to speak up. It's just that he doesn't seem to care, makes rules for me that apparently don't apply to himself, while at the same time he seems to expect to get away with everything. If I complain, he calls me an unforgiving nag - really?*

This is my first marriage. He's been married multiple times before. And even though I think it's his issues that caused multiple divorces, he claims that I'm the most stubborn woman he's ever been with. I think he can't love anyone long-term. He ends up disrespecting every woman he's seriously involved with. And no, I didn't know that 5 years ago. I've just figured it out over time. For this reason, I don't think there's hope.

 

Maybe I got the timing wrong, but I thought you were in a relationship and he was married and you said the following.

 

My H and I started out as affair partners, but it was LD and not serious. Mainly phone calls and e-mails. You could call it an inappropriate friendship.

To me, that means you have boundary issues and allowed yourself to become involved (as you described above) with a married man while you were in a relationship. You don't like it now that he is your husband and he has "friends".

[Ch_11]

No you didn't get the time frame wrong. It doesn't make a difference though. I lived with a guy for 11 years and had an inappropriate texting/emailing relationship with my now H for less than a year. Only now do I recognize the damage this can do to a romantic relationship, but mine was about to crumble anyways. Besides, I always had male friends and my bf had female friends. My h though found this very inappropriate, so I stopped all contact, and since I had moved away from my social circle it happened kind of naturally. And as a SAHM I socialized mainly with other women in my area, not guys. I didnt know for a long time that my h never really stopped doing the same exact thing that he expected me to stop. I trusted him. I still don't understand such double standards. I mean, I do understand that they originate from some kind of an entitlement attitude, but seriously, how does somebody like that expect his environment to respond to that? Choke it down?

[veryhappy]

What's the age difference between the two of you?

 

He won't stop cheating. He's been doing it for too long. Can you live with a cheating husband?

[Mystery2Me]

Hi Ch_11,

 

May I offer a bit of advice, this forum is overall a safe place where one can relax from the defensive position needed to cope with day-to-day relationship stress.

 

So lay down your sword as you are not under attack; and open your mind to receive wisdom (may not always feel good) from people who have/are traveling the confusing road you find yourself on.

 

With that said here is my humble advice from a 15 year-wife, whom due to my STBXH's 2 affairs has for MYSELF decided it's OVER....and has filed for divorce.

 

.....Sound advice is being given to you about the "atmosphere" your marriage was created in: one of deception, mis-trust, secrecy, and unpacked baggage from previous relationships/marriages.

 

Regardless of who's more at-blame in creating this toxic atmosphere, you and H moved forward seeking happiness with building a life with faulty materials....so if the foundation is not healthy then the life built upon it subject to crumble.

 

If you continue to reject that the wrath of the problems you are suffering, are created from anything other than the negative strong hold of this ever present toxic atmosphere in your marriage.....you will continue to suffer.

 

Who cares who's right, wrong, or at blame....you are drowning in order to defend a life crumbling.

 

Finally I offer, when realized for myself that I alone can not repair a crumbling marriage (with H's behavior knocking it down more)....I dusted myself off healed my head high....strolled out that pit...AND filed my insurance claim/divorce.

 

Listen...Listen....that's the truth whispering to you. ~Mystery