signs of a professional?

[thefooloftheyear]

No two circumstances are alike, but there are enough commonalities that we can makes some comments regarding what occurs.

 

"Falling in love" is another term for infatuation. I was infatuated with my wife before I loved her. It can be a form of love, but true love will not be given by a person who still is allegedly committed to another person. A marriage vow is an act of love. We commit to someone and pledge to remain faithful.

 

So when someone chooses an affair, he or she has already shown that he cannot love. Is it possible to love two people? Not in the true sense of the word.

 

Love is much more than a feeling. It is an action and a promise.

 

So, any person who chooses an affair and tells the AP that he or she loves the AP...this person is already showing signs of a cheating professional.

 

 

Understood, however.

 

So what you are saying is that regardless of the circumstances, that one person cannot fall in love with another person as long as they are in a "committed" relationship? Huh?? Millions of couples live in dead M's and the only reason they are together is because of financial or some other considerations. They have "checked out" of the M years before...

 

We all know its wrong and the dynamics can be damaging to many, but it does happen. Again, just seems like a blanket generalization.

 

TFOY

[stevie_23]

Technically my ex-MM was a serial cheat, although he didn’t cheat on the same partner multiple times. He just tended to use “exit affairs” a lot in the past, and was cheating on his current wife with me for over half the time they’d been together in a relationship.

 

In any case, we were very long distance and online / phone only. He’d never done that kind of relationship before, and he said he’d never felt the way he did with me before. I believed him and I do still. What Pierre said about the affair / love bubble is true for our relationship. And yes, it hits you incredibly hard when it ends, despite everything that was said and felt in that bubble.

 

Now, in terms of being able to tell if someone is a serial cheater or a philanderer? Some have said my ex was those things, and yes, in a way, but also not in a way. He definitely didn’t want just sex in ANY of this previous relationships, and of course not with me, considering how far apart we live. He’s a serial monogamist who exits marriages using affairs that then turn into the next marriage.

 

Someone mentioned tricks people use if they’re more experienced. My ex-MM actually didn’t HAVE any tricks at first. It was ME who showed him how to be safer in terms of his wife not finding out about us. When we first started talking, we just used the private message facility of the songwriting forum we were on. Then we moved to emails and he got a new email account just for that, only because prior to that he only had one email account and it was for his work. When we started texting, he used his work phone, but then his wife noticed the excessive text activity and he had to stop. It was me who suggested getting a totally new phone, so he did. It was me (and sometimes him, but mostly me) who kept coming up with new ways to protect us from his wife finding out. So you’d think that I was the more experienced one, but no way.

[sunshine6]

Thanks for all the replies...

 

I wish I could give several details, but afraid to for anonymity sake..

 

I find myself questioning his genuineness often. Mainly because his actions will seem true to his word one week, but not the next - one day, but not another.

 

I will say he does have a history of cheating and he seems to know how to draw me back in, even if he's kept distance and seemed disinterested for days or weeks at a time. I'm getting very tired of it all. But I'm very analytical, so there's the part of me that wants to figure him out.

[flattened]

TFOY if he loves her he'd leave. Immediately. There is really nothing to "sort out" or "explain". Next payday and he'd be gone. If he doesn't do that it's not love. Love does not eat cake.

 

No matter what you think of cheaters, or people in love or not in love, this statement is plainly ridiculous. You have no clue what it's like to leave and divorce.

[stevie_23]

I’m analytical too. This isn’t why you want to figure him out though. You’d have no interest in figuring him out or analysing his behaviour if you didn’t love him and were “addicted” to him and this kind of relationship with him. Believe me, I know what it’s like.

 

I also used to sometimes doubt my ex-MM’s love for me. Obviously a huge thing is the fact he’s not JUST with you, and no matter what they tell you about their lack of feelings for their wife and their intense REAL feelings for you, it’s still the case that they’re NOT with you alone.

 

I also used to worry / wonder about some slight mixed messages. Well, not exactly. He was always consistent. Always. But sometimes he simply couldn’t text or write to me because of things with his wife (when she was there), and sometimes because I was jealous and disappointed I’d wonder if he was just not with me because he was bored and didn’t really care. But no. That wasn’t it. He just couldn’t be.

 

In any case, I still maintain my belief that these cheaters, whether serial or not, UNLESS they’re just in it for sex or to have a proper “mistress” to be a handbag or arm candy or whatever, they really DO believe what they say to their OW. During that time and within that bubble of fantasy or hope.

[stevie_23]

No matter what you think of cheaters, or people in love or not in love, this statement is plainly ridiculous. You have no clue what it's like to leave and divorce.

 

Oops, I meant to quote what MFH70 said.

 

Love is never black and white.

 

My ex-MM wanted to be with me, to marry me. I’m under no illusions that in 5-10 years he may be cheating on me and wishing to marry a new OW and marry HER, but for now? He wanted to be with me and I believe he would have been if he could have.

 

Not all obstacles to being with the person you love or requirements to staying in a marriage you’re not happy with can be so easily overcome. Sure, he could’ve up and left his wife suddenly. He could’ve flown 24 hours to be with me where I live. Apart from the fact that…

 

• I was still with my partner and he would’ve had to have lived somewhere (not with me) until I ended things IF I still wanted to once we met in person. He would’ve thrown away his whole entire life and risked everything to come to me, not sure if we’d even be together still.
  
• He has health issues and needs health insurance. I don’t have health insurance as I can’t afford it and neither can he apart from the fact his job includes it, so he’s protected. If he lived here, even if he COULD get a job, he’d have no health insurance cause employers don’t do that here.
  
• He is 61 years old. It’s hard enough to get a job at 31 years old where I live. How would either of us live even if we DID end up happy together? I can’t even afford to support myself financially, let alone him as well.
  

You may call all this excuses, but they’re reality. Yes, he loved me. I believe he would STILL be with me if he could. But to ruin everything in his life? Have no money? Endanger his health? It’s just not possible.

[Pierre]

In any case, I still maintain my belief that these cheaters, whether serial or not, UNLESS they’re just in it for sex or to have a proper “mistress” to be a handbag or arm candy or whatever, they really DO believe what they say to their OW. During that time and within that bubble of fantasy or hope.

 

I have to agree with you. Many married AP actually believe their words of love to the single OW or OM.

 

Some folks fall in love very easily and sometimes with very unlikely partners because they have a very strong need to be loved and to be wanted. That is why you see huge age mismatches or people from very different level of education or walks of life. I even know of an MW that had an affair with a single woman because her need for external validation was so strong. And to this day she claims not to be gay.

 

Many people fall in love very deeply and very easily with whomever meets the need for validation. Many predatory cheating MM are in desperate need of validation and they do fall in love within the affair bubble.

[stevie_23]

That’s very interesting about the woman who had an affair with another woman and yet feels she’s not gay.

 

I wonder if this is me. I always thought I was gay and then I had the affair with my ex-MM and now I don’t know if I’m gay or not.

 

Also that makes sense for my ex-MM and my age difference. 27 years. My real life partner and I have an age gap of 17 years though, and we also met online in the same kind of circumstances as my ex-MM and I.

 

In terms of everything else with my partner and my ex-MM and my compatibility, it’s always been high. Similar education levels, similar intelligence levels, similar viewpoints and attitudes, similar backgrounds. The only thing that stands out is the age gap.

[Spark1111]

FBS here with many older brothers, lost of uncles and ale cousins.

 

a man in love will move mountains to be with you. He will be so afraid of another man scooping you up, he will kill himself to be with you and only you. en are very, very competitive, especially for a woman they are TRULY falling in love with.

 

He will be so afraid of losing you to another man, he will provide, profess and protect you. you are the prize, and he should make you feel like it every day.

 

If he does not, he is not In love.

 

he may be in like, in lust, he may care, but if he is not moving mountains to lock you up, be wary..

 

there are girls they liked, girls they talked to, girls who were sweet to them and they loved the ego-stroking, but then there was the woman they thought too good for them, she didn't give them too much attention as she was too busy with her own gig, strong, confident, fun with a life of her own.

 

they grew love sick and did all in their power to make that woman their own.

 

be that woman.

[stevie_23]

FBS here with many older brothers, lost of uncles and ale cousins.

 

a man in love will move mountains to be with you. He will be so afraid of another man scooping you up, he will kill himself to be with you and only you. en are very, very competitive, especially for a woman they are TRULY falling in love with.

 

He will be so afraid of losing you to another man, he will provide, profess and protect you. you are the prize, and he should make you feel like it every day.

 

If he does not, he is not In love.

 

he may be in like, in lust, he may care, but if he is not moving mountains to lock you up, be wary..

 

there are girls they liked, girls they talked to, girls who were sweet to them and they loved the ego-stroking, but then there was the woman they thought too good for them, she didn't give them too much attention as she was too busy with her own gig, strong, confident, fun with a life of her own.

 

they grew love sick and did all in their power to make that woman their own.

 

be that woman.

 

The first part of this is UNTRUE in my own experience and humble opinion.

 

My ex-MM had no concerns of me being scooped up by another man because (1) I have never BEEN with a man in my life. I thought I was gay until we got together, and have told him many times he is the only man for me, ever, and (2) I’m with my partner (who’s a woman) of 11.5 years, and while this obviously prevented us properly being together, it also would’ve provided a certain amount of security in terms of any other men.

 

Also, you can't generalise. Men (and people in general) show deep, REAL love in many different ways.

 

The last part of your post about "being that woman" is true to an extent.

[stevie_23]

There IS an obstacle. He is 61 years old. He needs health insurance. He would not have that if he lived here with me. He wouldn’t be able to get a job most likely. And he also doesn’t ideally want me to have to care for him as he gets older (I’m 34) and potentially sicker. I don’t want that either, frankly!

 

You mention divorce as being costly and insurance being able to be sorted out later. Yes, of course this is true. But in our case, he cannot AFFORD a divorce. And without his employer’s medical insurance, and a job here where I live, he can’t afford ANYTHING. So it’s not that easy. There ARE no marital assets. They don’t own their own home (they rent), they own 2 cars between them and up until mid last year, they had debts and his wife’s company had to file for bankruptcy.

 

He doesn’t care about being the bad guy. He’s been there, done that.

 

But also, don’t you see? I am technically in more of a position to make it possible for us to be together than he is. I could go over THERE and live with him. He could stay in his job, keep his health insurance, and I would be ok.

 

But. I don’t WANT that. I LOVE him dearly. I DO want to be with him, but it’s not enough for ME to leave my partner who I love, and leave whole life here and go over and be with him there. And that, to me, doesn’t invalidate or make my love for him not real. And conversely, his love for me was real also.

[thefooloftheyear]

I don't buy it Stevie. If he really wants you there's no obstacle. It's really not that hard to take a suitcase and get a room or stay with friends or family. You can even just serve the divorce papers and hope the Bs storms out. You can sort out all property, kids, money, insurance stuff AFTER you've moved out. It's not hard. .

 

 

Call a divorce lawyer tomorrow, get a free consultation, and explain that this is what you are going to do....See what he/she says..."sort out" the kids??Huh???

 

Click......(dial tone).....

 

Im not an attorney, but I would think that there are laws relating to abandonment if there was no evidence of physical abuse...

 

And using your line of reasoning "if he really wants you", Well then, it also stands to reason that "If you really want him", then why not give the proper time(within reason-of course) to get affairs in order? See?

 

TFOY

Edited February 5, 2013 by thefooloftheyear

[stevie_23]

Exactly true.

 

But to be fair, if BOTH of us were REALLY willing to make such huge sacrifices and take such huge risks to be together, we WOULD be together. Neither of us is 100% responsible for not being together.

[stevie_23]

But that’s the thing – it doesn’t always have to be BAD to leave. In his case, yeah he’s not happy living where he is, but it’s not HORRENDOUS. If he didn’t have such financial / health restrictions he may well have moved out before he even met me, or soon after (but not because of me / us). And also, in terms of him leaving and "jumping for joy" because he wouldn't be leaving "all that", it's the other stuff that isn't related to his marriage that he'd be leaving. His home, his country, his familiarity, etc.

 

In my case, I’m fairly happy where I am. I wouldn’t leave because it was BAD, I’d leave because I would want to be with him much MORE and saw that it was possible.

 

It’s like…when I left my home state to move to where I live now, it was one of the hardest things I ever did. I loved my home and still do, but I wanted to live here more. I didn’t leave because I wanted to LEAVE.

 

In terms of divorce, this would be the least of my ex’s problems if things were different for us and we really could be together. He’s been through divorce before, it’s not the main focus or any sort of obstacle in his way.

Edited February 5, 2013 by stevie_23

[jwi71]

I find myself questioning his genuineness often. Mainly because his actions will seem true to his word one week, but not the next - one day, but not another.

 

I will say he does have a history of cheating and he seems to know how to draw me back in, even if he's kept distance and seemed disinterested for days or weeks at a time. I'm getting very tired of it all. But I'm very analytical, so there's the part of me that wants to figure him out.

 

A serial cheater is by definition and accomplished liar and fraud.

 

Given that his actions are inconsistent, sometimes from one day to the next, do you believe you are special - or you are just another notch on his belt?

 

I am betting you are simply his latest OW.

[sunshine6]

A serial cheater is by definition and accomplished liar and fraud.

 

Given that his actions are inconsistent, sometimes from one day to the next, do you believe you are special - or you are just another notch on his belt?

 

I am betting you are simply his latest OW.

 

I would bet the same, lately. He's very careful, sneaky. It's been hard for me to see from an inside perspective, but I see it more now. He limits our contact to only work mainly. Has a secret email, but rarely uses it.

 

I just don't get what he wants from me. It's been a very long ride full of many phases and thought processes. I think I'm about just over it. I've debated back and forth with is he just playing me or not. He's very convincing...

[Spark1111]

The first part of this is UNTRUE in my own experience and humble opinion.

 

My ex-MM had no concerns of me being scooped up by another man because (1) I have never BEEN with a man in my life. I thought I was gay until we got together, and have told him many times he is the only man for me, ever, and (2) I’m with my partner (who’s a woman) of 11.5 years, and while this obviously prevented us properly being together, it also would’ve provided a certain amount of security in terms of any other men.

 

Also, you can't generalise. Men (and people in general) show deep, REAL love in many different ways.

 

The last part of your post about "being that woman" is true to an extent.

 

I can generalize because I grew up in a house full of men

 

you were formerly? currently? With a female partner. What greater boost to the male ego then to believe he was so virile as to turn you straight.

 

also, isn't he on his fourth wife, the one he is cheating on with you?

 

hasn't he done this before to previous wives?

 

Are you sure you are the only woman, he talks to as you are so far away?

 

I, too, smell serial.

[Spark1111]

I would bet the same, lately. He's very careful, sneaky. It's been hard for me to see from an inside perspective, but I see it more now. He limits our contact to only work mainly. Has a secret email, but rarely uses it.

 

I just don't get what he wants from me. It's been a very long ride full of many phases and thought processes. I think I'm about just over it. I've debated back and forth with is he just playing me or not. He's very convincing...

 

trust your gut sunshine. If he is sneaky and guarded with you and limits all contact during work hours.....what would happen if you called him at night?

 

do you go directly to voicemail? does he claim it's because he's home with his wife?

 

if wish ALL OW would realize that being married is the PERFECT COVER for a serial cheater.

 

because you cannot call him a good deal of the time, how do you TRULY know. He doesn't have another OW?

 

You can't know for SURE. you think he is home and the wife thinks he is working late, meanwhile he may have someone else too.

[sunshine6]

trust your gut sunshine. If he is sneaky and guarded with you and limits all contact during work hours.....what would happen if you called him at night?

 

do you go directly to voicemail? does he claim it's because he's home with his wife?

 

if wish ALL OW would realize that being married is the PERFECT COVER for a serial cheater.

 

because you cannot call him a good deal of the time, how do you TRULY know. He doesn't have another OW?

 

You can't know for SURE. you think he is home and the wife thinks he is working late, meanwhile he may have someone else too.

 

I know... I think the hardest thing for me at this point is helping my own ego overcome this so that I don't WANT the attention anymore, despite feeling like it's coming from a gross place.

[stevie_23]

I truly believe I was the only woman he was with in terms of cheating on his current wife (who is actually his FIFTH wife, lol)

 

He could definitely be considered a serial cheat, however I prefer to phrase it as he is a serial monogamist, a fantasy-world dweller who is highly romantic and intensely in love early on before the feelings fade, he becomes dissatisfied and numb, and then eventually falls for someone else, and for whatever reason does not end the existing relationship before commencing the new one. In all previous cases, he has ended the existing relationship fairly early on and then married the OW.