The more I look at things, the more I see men and women arent much different.

February 1, 2013

For as much as women claim men are like the things youve said, I know too many guys (myself included) who dont fall under the "emotionless, wants sex only, and doesnt call you later" type of guy. Im thinking many women just have poor taste in men.

Its also been my experience that women arent as emotionally tied to sex as general consensus would like us to believe. Ive had only one girl, out of all the women Ive slept with, become more emotionally attached to me after sex. Just one. And Ive had it happen several times where a girl was able to hook up with me, and merely toss me aside despite any connection we seemed to have had.

For as much as people say attraction and emotions are different between men and women, I just dont see it. Its all individual really imo.

New thread topic?

Heres something I just said in another recent thread of mine.

Personally I dont buy into the stereotypes of men being so much less emotional than women, hiding them deep down and not sharing them much...while also being after sex all the time and not forming emotional connections from sex. Or how male attraction is so much more visual and shallow at times than female attraction.

Everything Ive experienced, and many things people I know have experienced, shows me that male and female stereotypes are sooooo off base and outdated. I know too many women who are super visual and go after sex the same way the stereotype of men says we do. I know more women than men who do not get emotionally attached after sex.

Hell, reading LS and hearing women complain in real life makes me scratch my head when they talk about being played by a guy...or how girls get so much more attached in dating. Why? Because Ive seen many guys fall hard for a girl after sex, or get lead on or ditched after sex. Its just that it seems theres a double standard where if a guy does it, hes a jerk...and people kinda shrug when chicks do it, since it doesnt fit the stereotype.

Point being...I wish these outdated gender stereotypes would die. If women were so much more emotional than men, and looked at attraction and sex so much differently than men, my dating life/history would look MUCH different than it does. As it stands, Ive only had one time in my life where I lead a girl on before and after sex...and thats when I was a dumb teenager.

Other than that, Ive had it happen to me several times....and Im always left wondering why people always say how emotionally attached women are supposed to be after sex. And over the last few years, it hasnt been my personality getting me whatever attention Ive gotten from women...because the things they say and do make it clear that they dug me visually first and foremost, and then made the decision to go after me.

Im just super confused really. People keep saying one thing about women...but then I see them behave in an entirely different way. Id love if I met these super emotional creatures...but I guess Ive had bad taste picking girls so far. Because I have yet to meet a girl whos really truly opened up to me completely...without games or drama. And I havent been able to truly open up to a girl yet without something bad happening in the aftermath.

February 1, 2013

I feel you Kaylan. I've said similar in another thread, just not as in depth.

If women were so emotional why are many men, including me afraid to show emotion to women? We're told to "play dumb", wait till she asks to be exclusive or youll see a smoke trail. We're told don't tell her how you feel until she's dragging you to the jewelry store to pick out an engagement ring. Now on the flip side of things, many men aren't emotional either (this is leading up to my overall opinion). There are commitment phobes, players etc... When I was doing some reasearch on commitment phobes one site stated that women who stay with commitment phobes are commitment phobes themselves, and both parties are EA, whether they know it or not. What I'm getting at is that IMO there are more emotionally unhealthy people than not. The true foundation of a healthy relationship is e intimacy and communication. Well, most relationships have niether. Most peope replicate the relationships their parents had. Why else would I be drawn to controlling women when I know logically it's the last thing I want/need? The bottom line is that it's too hard to find men/women that aren't damaged/EA or self aware and that want the real deal, intimacy and all. So unless you grew up in a leave it to beaver household and meet someone from the same background, don't hold your breath waiting to find mr/mrs right.

Edited February 1, 2013 by SJC2008
add

February 1, 2013

Of course men have emotions. I dont think men are robots or cylons from Battlestar Galatica running around.

Men do tend to be more emotionally cold towards their partners though...some women are like this but a much smaller %. And no I am not focusing on the negatives, in most of the relationships I see including people of different personality types, the woman is more attentive to the feelings of their partner than vice versa. Men have a free pass to be unsensitive, rude and unemotional towards their partners. The reasons for this vary (mostly societal reasons in my opinion, but thats up for debate)

There are a small number of cultures where men are more emotional and caring than women....these cultures are verrrrrrrrrry different from ours...I always found them to be so interesting when I read about them in sociology classes

I roll my eyes when I see posts where men excuse other men for asking for threesomes, making rude/disrespectful comments about the opposite sex on a daily basis, and other such behavior saying "Boys will be boys" in many different formats (these phrases are overused). Most girls do the same stuff guys do (notice cute guys, think about sex with other guys, stuff like that) the difference in my opinion is that women tend to be more respectful and sensitive and dont make these things as painfully obvious as men do.

Women are held to a higher standard than men are when it comes to treating their S.O's better (in terms of respect, sensitivity and emotional connectedness)

Emotional indifference and immaturity is cited as a reason for divorce in over 70% of divorces initiated by women

Many men wont need to be convinced that a woman should divorce a man who hits her, however when you describe emotional indifference/neglect many men dont see a problem with it. Truth- sorry if that offends the men here

There are always exceptions but this is the general pattern I see

Edited February 1, 2013 by pbjbear

February 1, 2013

I totally agree with you that a lot of males and females differences is highly exaggerated. But I still think there are certainly overall differences . When it comes to emotions, I dunno...I just don't buy it that we're the same emotionally. A lot of men to me are like robots...The only feelings they seem to have is jealousy and insecurity

February 1, 2013

Of course men have emotions. I dont think men are robots or cylons from Battlestar Galatica running around.

Men do tend to be more emotionally cold towards their partners though...some women are like this but a much smaller %.

And this is based on what? Nothing but your own assertion right?

I know many guys, including myself, who are emotionally warm and open to their partners. Plus I am sure many a guy will tell you of emotionally cold women they have dated. Its not a small percentage of women. Trust me. Id say as many men as women, are emotionally open or closed. Its individual...not gender.

And no I am not focusing on the negatives, in most of the relationships I see including people of different personality types, the woman is more attentive to the feelings of their partner than vice versa. Men have a free pass to be unsensitive, rude and unemotional towards their partners. The reasons for this vary (mostly societal reasons in my opinion, but thats up for debate)

I dont see this in the relationships around me growing up. Its been rather equal in what the men and women are doing. Personally I feel that women more often than not, will zero in on male behavior especially when it plays into their preconceived notions of how they think me are....aka confirmation bias.

There are a small number of cultures where men are more emotional and caring than women....these cultures are verrrrrrrrrry different from ours there

???Our culture teaches men to be very protective and caring of our women. What are you talking about?

I roll my eyes when I see posts where men excuse other men for asking for threesomes, making rude/disrespectful comments about the opposite sex on a daily basis, and other such behavior. "Boys will be boys" in many different formats is overused. Most girls do the same stuff guys do (notice cute guys, think about sex with other guys, stuff like that) the difference in my opinion is that women tend to be more respectful and sensitive and dont make these things as painfully obvious as men do.

Blatant confirmation bias here.

There are NUMEROUS guys on this forum that speak out against all the stuff you just said when dudes act out. Guys like me, ThaWholigan, KungFuJoe, MrLonelyOne, and many others. Hell...we all call out the women too. We dont just tell guys "boys will be boys".

Seems to me that you zero in on the bad posts without accurately recalling the numerous good posts from male posters here.

And have you been to a university or in the 20s night scene with a group of women? They can be as obvious and as insensitive as guys can be. Girls can be especially nasty in the night scene when compared to men btw. Ladies can be publically nasty and rude to a guy without much repercussion...but if a guy does it, the calvalry will come a running.

Women are held to a higher standard than men are when it comes to treating their S.O's better

There are always exceptions but this is the general pattern I see

Are you serious? I dont think women are expected to treat their SOs any better than men are expected to. Hell, I actually think more is expected of men since we are the protectors of women and are expected to honor you gals.

February 1, 2013

Personally I dont buy into the stereotypes of men being so much less emotional than women, hiding them deep down and not sharing them much...

This one popped out at me Kaylan. From my experience, men are either more or the same as women in this area, some just don't show it as much.

Actually, I have found men can be more sensitive than women...their feelings can run VERY deep. It's a trip because I used to buy that mess...nothing could be further from the truth.

February 1, 2013

I totally agree with you that a lot of males and females differences is highly exaggerated. But I still think there are certainly overall differences . When it comes to emotions, I dunno...I just don't buy it that we're the same emotionally. A lot of men to me are like robots...The only feelings they seem to have is jealousy and insecurity

Hell...Id say most women Ive met are robot.

Personally, I feel the big problem is that men and women dont know how to communicate honestly with one another. People are too scared of being open and vulnerable...and theres a lack of trust across the genders...which is how we run into problems.

When you remove the sex part, things seem much simpler. Hence why my male friends, and closer female friends, dont seem like robots compared to some women Ive dated.

I feel you Kaylan. I've said similar in another thread, just not as in depth.

If women were so emotional why are many men, including me afraid to show emotion to women? We're told to "play dumb", wait till she asks to be exclusive or youll see a smoke trail. We're told don't tell her how you feel until she's dragging you to the jewelry store to pick out an engagement ring. Now on the flip side of things, many men aren't emotional either (this is leading up to my overall opinion). There are commitment phobes, players etc... When I was doing some reasearch on commitment phobes one site stated that women who stay with commitment phobes are commitment phobes themselves, and both parties are EA, whether they know it or not. What I'm getting at is that IMO there are more emotionally unhealthy people than not. The true foundation of a healthy relationship is e intimacy and communication. Well, most relationships have niether. Most peope replicate the relationships their parents had. Why else would I be drawn to controlling women when I know logically it's the last thing I want/need? The bottom line is that it's too hard to find men/women that aren't damaged/EA or self aware and that want the real deal, intimacy and all. So unless you grew up in a leave it to beaver household and meet someone from the same background, don't hold your breath waiting to find mr/mrs right.

Despite the long held belief that many guys are commitment phobes...or that men make up the bulk of commitment phobes....Ive met sooooo many girls who werent ready to take the plunge despite having a good guy right in front of them.

Im guilty of being a commitment-phobe myself, which is prolly why I always seem to find those kinda gals.

Edited February 1, 2013 by kaylan

February 1, 2013

It's interesting isn't it..

I believe it's more of an leveling out thing.. We are all freer these days to be as free with our emotions as we want to be. And there are a lot of guys who are taking that and running with it, which is great. But there at the same time, it's also become more acceptable for women to be more emotionally unavailable.

I'd say as a species we are probably 50/50 with the way we feel about sex and relationships, but it's not men/women anymore.

February 1, 2013

Emotional indifference and immaturity is cited as a reason for divorce in over 70% of divorces initiated by women
Many men wont need to be convinced that a woman should divorce a man who hits her, however when you describe emotional indifference/neglect many men dont see a problem with it. Truth- sorry if that offends the men here

The fact that "emotional indifference" is cited in such a huge percentage of divorces says more about the preferences of women than it does about how men behave. What constitutes emotional neglect or indifference is a very subjective and individual judgment. A man could listen to his wife's problems for 12 hours a day, but if she has an excessively needy personality, she could easily consider herself "neglected" even in this scenario, and no amount of attention on the part of the man would be sufficient in her eyes. The claim of emotional neglect is something that launches into a "he said, she said" conflict that is ultimately meaningless.

February 1, 2013

Im not saying men dont have emotions, but they dont show them or use them as effectively with their partners as women do. It is changing though, now that gender roles arent as enforced there are more emotionally unavailable women. I doubt theres been an increase in emotionally available men...the opposite with fewer people wanting serious relationships and more casual relationships and casual sex.

I think kaylan is emotional and sensitive, which Ill admit is attractive to me, but as Ive said many times the type of guy who comes to a site like this and posts thoughtful threads is not the typical guy youll meet walking around in the real world

February 1, 2013

Hell...Id say most women Ive met are robot.

Personally, I feel the big problem is that men and women dont know how to communicate honestly with one another. People are too scared of being open and vulnerable...and theres a lack of trust across the genders...which is how we run into problems.

When you remove the sex part, things seem much simpler. Hence why my male friends, and closer female friends, dont seem like robots compared to some women Ive dated.

I would love to be friends with men without the sex part. But I've never had single guy friends who didn't lust after me or didn't want at least a bit more. I still thought my guy friends lacked deep emotions, they were fun to talk to and hang out with though.

February 1, 2013

I really hope men and women are different and stay different. I love women and not only their body shapes that is different from my own.

Women

February 1, 2013

Im not saying men dont have emotions, but they dont show them or use them as effectively with their partners as women do. It is changing though, now that gender roles arent as enforced there are more emotionally unavailable women. I doubt theres been an increase in emotionally available men...the opposite with fewer people wanting serious relationships and more casual relationships and casual sex.

I think kaylan is emotional and sensitive, which Ill admit is attractive to me, but as Ive said many times the type of guy who comes to a site like this and posts thoughtful threads is not the typical guy youll meet walking around in the real world

Emotional I like. Sensitive...ewww. I like being called empathetic or analytical more than sensitive. Sensitive sounds mighty wimpy.

But btw...Im originally from NYC...and have friends all around the city. And in those friends are more guys similar to me....so despite everything you say about NY guys...theres plenty of us decent man folk out there.

Just gotta find us.

February 1, 2013

I would love to be friends with men without the sex part. But I've never had single guy friends who didn't lust after me or didn't want at least a bit more. I still thought my guy friends lacked deep emotions, they were fun to talk to and hang out with though.

Thats just how male/female relations are. Generally one side harbors feelings. Humans just tend to pick friends based on even the smallest attraction. Men do it more so than women...but Ive seen women do it too.

However, as Ive gotten older, I have made some good female friends who I didnt have a sexual attraction for. I simply enjoy their company and what we had in common.

BTW, its usually hard to block out desire for someone if you share deep emotions with them. Maybe thats why your guy friends didnt seem to have deep emotions. I can see a man or a woman falling for a friend of theres they considered attractive if deep emotions started being shared.

February 1, 2013

And to the OP, I'm generally in agreement. I for one am particularly sick and tired of the claim repeated here and everywhere else that women prefer relationships and rarely seek casual or no-strings attached sex, and that men are horndogs and fear commitment. It's almost as if the people saying that have never gone to college in a liberal urban area of the country or don't frequent any clubs that are popular with singles. I've been intimately involved with women who could charitably be described as robots, seeing things in them that weren't really there back in my younger days. I've fallen victim (for lack of a better word) to commitment-phobic women whose feelings on having relationships could be described as being an enigma wrapped in a question mark (but we still had sex). And I've certainly met TONS of women whose ages range from the late teens all the way to the early 30s who will gladly have sex without pining for commitment.

Generally speaking, any and all stereotypes that paint women as these fragile, emotional creatures who just want to meet a man with whom she can ride into the sunset and men as these predatory, stoic, commitment-phobic horndogs ought to be annihilated. They are reprehensible, inaccurate, and quite frankly are insulting to both sexes.

February 1, 2013

Thats just how male/female relations are. Generally one side harbors feelings. Humans just tend to pick friends based on even the smallest attraction. Men do it more so than women...but Ive seen women do it too.

However, as Ive gotten older, I have made some good female friends who I didnt have a sexual attraction for. I simply enjoy their company and what we had in common.

BTW, its usually hard to block out desire for someone if you share deep emotions with them. Maybe thats why your guy friends didnt seem to have deep emotions. I can see a man or a woman falling for a friend of theres they considered attractive if deep emotions started being shared.

Don't get me wrong. They did share their emotions, I guess it just wasn't as overwhelming as when women do it? My guy friends tend to be much on the funny goofy side usually.

I don't know. A lot of girls like to go to bed thinking somebody loves them and that's why they end up settling for men they are not even that much attracted to. Most men could care less as long as they get some sex. That is usually until they get older and lonelier and lose testosterone. That's when they feel the need for more emotional security.

February 1, 2013

The fact that "emotional indifference" is cited in such a huge percentage of divorces says more about the preferences of women than it does about how men behave. What constitutes emotional neglect or indifference is a very subjective and individual judgment. A man could listen to his wife's problems for 12 hours a day, but if she has an excessively needy personality, she could easily consider herself "neglected" even in this scenario, and no amount of attention on the part of the man would be sufficient in her eyes. The claim of emotional neglect is something that launches into a "he said, she said" conflict that is ultimately meaningless.

Your example is not emotional neglect and that sort of situation is not what I am referring to.

Many men become lazy in relationships with their emotions. It is one of the most common complaints among married women and no, its not "hes not listening to me vent for an hour a day" complaints. Not saying you personally are like this, but it does happen. (It tends to happen after the honeymoon phase of a marriage wears off)

I agree with the other poster- alot of male friends I currently have are so fun to be around but they do lack deep emotions (or dont show them...which I find odd considering Ive been friends with most of them for years)

February 1, 2013

Your example is not emotional neglect and that sort of situation is not what I am referring to.
Many men become lazy in relationships with their emotions. It is one of the most common complaints among married women and no, its not "hes not listening to me vent for an hour a day" complaints. Not saying you personally are like this, but it does happen. (It tends to happen after the honeymoon phase of a marriage wears off)

I agree with the other poster- alot of male friends I currently have are so fun to be around but they do lack deep emotions (or dont show them...which I find odd considering Ive been friends with most of them for years)

It doesn't change the fact that emotional neglect in a marriage is a very unpredictable and subjective thing to claim. It can just as easily be a reflection of the way the woman's perception has changed, for example.

February 1, 2013

Don't get me wrong. They did share their emotions, I guess it just wasn't as overwhelming as when women do it? My guy friends tend to be much on the funny goofy side usually.

Im a goofy joker much of the time myself...and Im very cautious about who I share my deeper feelings with. And I wouldnt say girls are more overwhelming. It really depends on the chick. Guys are just expected to put up a front, even though they feel many of the same thing you do.

I don't know. A lot of girls like to go to bed thinking somebody loves them and that's why they end up settling for men they are not even that much attracted to. Most men could care less as long as they get some sex. That is usually until they get older and lonelier and lose testosterone. That's when they feel the need for more emotional security.

Heh...you know...that got me thinking about the girl I was seeing last month. I wasnt super into her in the beginning and then my feelings changed...and I wonder if part of that was because it felt nice having someone around who made me feel a lot better about myself than girls in the past have...you know...having someone to care about ya. I dont think Id ever go as far as to settling and staying with someone I wasnt in love with or not attracted to though. I need that in a relationship...and in the beginning too.

And youre wrong about men. Why do you think guys are soooo picky about who they take for LTRs? Because spark, love, and compatibility matters greatly to us too. Sex wont just do. Some guys may settle, just like some women settle...but they do want someone who hits all cylinders with them. Itd be easy for me to find any ole girlfriend right now and have frequent sex....but thats too much work and drama for something I wouldnt be committed to.

Your example is not emotional neglect and that sort of situation is not what I am referring to.
Many men become lazy in relationships with their emotions. It is one of the most common complaints among married women and no, its not "hes not listening to me vent for an hour a day" complaints. Not saying you personally are like this, but it does happen. (It tends to happen after the honeymoon phase of a marriage wears off)

I agree with the other poster- alot of male friends I currently have are so fun to be around but they do lack deep emotions (or dont show them...which I find odd considering Ive been friends with most of them for years)

Everything you said could be applied to married women as well. Something tells me you dont talk to many married men or men who were married before. Plenty of them have felt the pain of emotional neglect.

And guys (or anybody) arent going to readily show deep emotions to just any chick friend. You have to matter much to him first. Btw...being friends with someone for years doesnt mean you have to show them deep emotions. Some friendships are just different and dont warrant that. I only have a few friends who get the deep down side of the me to come out in convos. Other people are just friends who I pal around with and dont have too much serious discussion with.

Edited February 1, 2013 by kaylan

February 1, 2013

I'm meant to be posting less but I wanted to point out that the wide spectrum of human traits are assorted randomly in various people of both genders. So I have indeed met some very emotional men, and stoic, unemotional women. As well as many variations of the opposite.

It is usually my custom to take people as they are - individuals.

There isn't much difference between the sexes - at least emotionally. It varies in both.

February 1, 2013

Im a goofy joker much of the time myself...and Im very cautious about who I share my deeper feelings with. And I wouldnt say girls are more overwhelming. It really depends on the chick. Guys are just expected to put up a front, even though they feel many of the same thing you do.
Heh...you know...that got me thinking about the girl I was seeing last month. I wasnt super into her in the beginning and then my feelings changed...and I wonder if part of that was because it felt nice having someone around who made me feel a lot better about myself than girls in the past have...you know...having someone to care about ya. I dont think Id ever go as far as to settling and staying with someone I wasnt in love with or not attracted to though. I need that in a relationship...and in the beginning too.

And youre wrong about men. Why do you think guys are soooo picky about who they take for LTRs? Because spark, love, and compatibility matters greatly to us too. Sex wont just do. Some guys may settle, just like some women settle...but they do want someone who hits all cylinders with them. Itd be easy for me to find any ole girlfriend right now and have frequent sex....but thats too much work and drama for something I wouldnt be committed to.
Everything you said could be applied to married women as well. Something tells me you dont talk to many married men or men who were married before. Plenty of them have felt the pain of emotional neglect.

That's the point though. Your need for emotional security is not ENOUGH to let go of your other standards. For women, standards often go to the garbage can when it's their need to have and love someone. That's exactly why it is easier for men to find relationships than women. There are more women out there searching for it and they are willing to take abuse or whatever else just to have it. I'm not one of those women though. But I see it often to call out on it.

And guys (or anybody) arent going to readily show deep emotions to just any chick friend. You have to matter much to him first.

Well, I'm certain I wasn't just any chick to my close guy friends. With some I talked to every day for like hours.

February 1, 2013

I agree with this thread 100%. I get tired of the stereotypes about men because it is certainly not what I see in real life. Also men would be more willing to show emotion if we didn't feel like it would be held against us.

I think the kind of people who say this about men just don't like us very much and will use any excuse they can to bash us. Gender haters in general do this. You can have all the evidence in the world that their misconceptions are wrong and it won't mean a thing.

If men have no emotion then why do you see many posts on here by men who are torn apart over being betrayed or having their hearts broken?

February 1, 2013

And to the OP, I'm generally in agreement. I for one am particularly sick and tired of the claim repeated here and everywhere else that women prefer relationships and rarely seek casual or no-strings attached sex, and that men are horndogs and fear commitment. It's almost as if the people saying that have never gone to college in a liberal urban area of the country or don't frequent any clubs that are popular with singles. I've been intimately involved with women who could charitably be described as robots, seeing things in them that weren't really there back in my younger days. I've fallen victim (for lack of a better word) to commitment-phobic women whose feelings on having relationships could be described as being an enigma wrapped in a question mark (but we still had sex). And I've certainly met TONS of women whose ages range from the late teens all the way to the early 30s who will gladly have sex without pining for commitment.

Generally speaking, any and all stereotypes that paint women as these fragile, emotional creatures who just want to meet a man with whom she can ride into the sunset and men as these predatory, stoic, commitment-phobic horndogs ought to be annihilated. They are reprehensible, inaccurate, and quite frankly are insulting to both sexes.

Well studies show that women that participate in an promuscious lifestyle they sleep with men they also would find attractive as a future partner. The men they have ons with have they same attractive traits they search in a life partner.

When a men is having ONS, he doesn't look for typical qualities in women (accept is she fysical attractive or just someone he can have sex with).

February 1, 2013

That's the point though. Your need for emotional security is not ENOUGH to let go of your other standards. For women, standards often go to the garbage can when it's their need to have and love someone. That's exactly why it is easier for men to find relationships than women. There are more women out there searching for it and they are willing to take abuse or whatever else just to have it. I'm not one of those women though. But I see it often to call out on it.

Some women are certainly like this, yes. But that is their conscious choice that is the fault of no one other than themselves.

February 1, 2013

Well studies show that women that participate in an promuscious lifestyle they sleep with men they also would find attractive as a future partner. The men they have ons with have they same attractive traits they search in a life partner.

When a men is having ONS, he doesn't look for typical qualities in women (accept is she fysical attractive or just someone he can have sex with).

"Promuscious?" "Accept she is fysical attractive?" What language are you speaking?

The parts of your post that did make sense are non-responsive to what I originally said.

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