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Washington Post article on "Prosperity Gospel"

M30USA

By M30USA
in Spirituality & Religious Beliefs

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pie2 Established Member

pie2

Posted
Posted
I'm seeing quite a few gross misinterpretations of the "pernicious doctrine" of the "prosperity gospel" (whatever that is) in this article.

  • "God blesses those God favors most with material wealth."
  • "a focus on storing up treasures on Earth as a primary goal of faithful living"
  • "If you pray the right way, God will make you rich."
  • "wealth is a sign of God's grace and favor"

In my mind, the misrepresentation itself is a "pernicious doctrine." This isn't what I'm hearing in church (or from Osteen, etc.) at all!!

 

I'm hearing about generosity in giving, and how it will come back to you (2 Corinthians 10-11 ... Luke 6:38)

 

I'm also hearing about God blessing both the righteous and the unrighteous. Not our call; it's all part of God's master plan. (Matthew 5:45)

 

My take on it all - Financial wealth is not a reliable indicator of God's favor or a person's ability to enter into the kingdom of heaven. It's all about what you DO with that wealth that matters. What's in your heart; how you regard it and use it (the wealth). That's the payload.

 

I do believe God wants us to prosper... in the right way, in His way. (Psalm 37:4 Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.)

 

Do you go to a church that is based on a message similar to Osteen?

 

From what I've heard, the messages in the Lakewood Church are weighted towards the topics surrounding "blessings", and steer away from the message of sin, Satan, hell (all of the more "difficult" topics. What is your impression?

 

One thing I LOVE about my church is that they study the bible verse-by-verse. My pastor admits that he sometimes grapples with some of the harder topics, but I appreciate that he doesn't gloss over them.

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pie2 Established Member

pie2

Posted
Posted
FYI, "the world" as you call it both defines and persues prosperity in lots of different ways; not just shallow factors such as material wealth.

 

I think that's true. Prosperity's definition can include many different things, like health, influence, intelligence.

 

But I'd have to say that the most common, overriding measure people use to define prosperity (non-spiritually), at least in the states, would be wealth, possessions and a lifestyle (clothes, vacations, etc) that money can buy.

 

Well, at least in big, urban areas, from what I can see.

TheFinalWord Established Member

TheFinalWord

Posted
Posted
Do you go to a church that is based on a message similar to Osteen?

 

From what I've heard, the messages in the Lakewood Church are weighted towards the topics surrounding "blessings", and steer away from the message of sin, Satan, hell (all of the more "difficult" topics. What is your impression?

 

One thing I LOVE about my church is that they study the bible verse-by-verse. My pastor admits that he sometimes grapples with some of the harder topics, but I appreciate that he doesn't gloss over them.

 

I've been to a Calvary Chapel church like that. Very good stuff!

 

Well, I saw this message from Osteen the other day. Osteen does less candy coating than some baptist preachers I have heard :lmao:

 

Joel Osteen - Dont Feed Thrash To Your Heart - YouTube

 

Edit: Don't think the person posting the video meant "thrash" I know some pretty good Christian thrash metal bands :lmao:

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pie2 Established Member

pie2

Posted
Posted
Don't think the person posting the video meant "thrash" I know some pretty good Christian thrash metal bands :lmao:

 

You didn't get the thrash-metal vibe from Joel Osteen? :laugh:

 

Well, I saw this message from Osteen the other day. Osteen does less candy coating than some baptist preachers I have heard

 

Admittedly, it's hard not to like the guy! He seems so sweet.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Do you go to a church that is based on a message similar to Osteen?

 

From what I've heard, the messages in the Lakewood Church are weighted towards the topics surrounding "blessings", and steer away from the message of sin, Satan, hell (all of the more "difficult" topics. What is your impression?

 

One thing I LOVE about my church is that they study the bible verse-by-verse. My pastor admits that he sometimes grapples with some of the harder topics, but I appreciate that he doesn't gloss over them.

 

The reason it's wise to study verse by verse (as your church does) is because you can't shy away from any topics, hehe. It keeps you from being either all blessings and love, or all fire and brimstone. Because the truth is that God is both.

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OpenBook Established Member

OpenBook

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Posted
Do you go to a church that is based on a message similar to Osteen?

 

No. Osteen is relentlessly optimistic & sunshiny. My pastor is more... down-to-earth (is that the right description?), real, relatable. He tackles the easy AND the hard stuff in the Bible, provides historical context (which I've never had before in any church - it's fabulous!) and helps us relate it to living in the 21st century. He is always challenging us to go further in our walk with Christ.

 

From what I've heard, the messages in the Lakewood Church are weighted towards the topics surrounding "blessings", and steer away from the message of sin, Satan, hell (all of the more "difficult" topics. What is your impression?

 

Same impression. But I don't fault him for it; not my call. I believe Osteen is doing what he's meant to do - spreading the message of hope to as many people as possible. He's the right man for the job. Same for my pastor - he's tending his flock, albeit in a different way.

 

It's kinda like watching the news for me - I gather it from several different sources in order to get as complete a picture as I can. :D

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pie2 Established Member

pie2

Posted
Posted
So what does that tell you? It tells me that it's not terribly useful to see the world in terms of "Christian" and "The World" as you do. You miss out on a lot by doing that.

 

:confused: ?

 

I haven't said that I view the world this way. I would say that, in terms of the topic of 'prosperity', I would view the subject as eternal prosperity vs. non-eternal prosperity.

 

And America being the far right-wing, capitalistic, nationalistic, chest-thumping beast that it is...

 

Well, don't hold back :eek:. All relative terms, I guess.

 

...you'd probably be quite right that most people would define prosperity in economic terms. But at the same time, most of those people would also profess to Christianity at the same time. Some, as we have seen, even incorporate it into their teachings

 

I have a hard time believing that it's radically different around the world, to one degree or another. From the little of the world I've seen, materialism is pretty rampant.

pie2 Established Member

pie2

Posted
Posted
My pastor is more... down-to-earth (is that the right description?), real, relatable. He tackles the easy AND the hard stuff in the Bible, provides historical context (which I've never had before in any church - it's fabulous!) and helps us relate it to living in the 21st century. He is always challenging us to go further in our walk with Christ.

 

My pastor is the same way :). I really love it! When I was a newer Christian, I went to a pentecostal church, and it was very different. It was good at that time in my life, but God has me where I am now, to be filled in a different way, as you had said.

 

It's kinda like watching the news for me - I gather it from several different sources in order to get as complete a picture as I can.

 

So true!! That's a good way to look at it :)

BetheButterfly Established Member

BetheButterfly

Posted
Posted (edited)
I think this article is fantastic. I'm amazed that correct biblical teaching came from a secular publication. More power to them!

 

The Worst Ideas of the Decade (washingtonpost.com)

 

This is a great article!

 

I boldened what impacted me, with which I also 100% agree:

 

"In the Gospel of Saint Matthew, we are told that Jesus said, "You cannot serve both God and money" and, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." The "prosperity gospel," an insipid heresy whose popularity among American Christians has boomed in recent years, teaches that God blesses those God favors most with material wealth.

The ministries of three televangelists commonly viewed as founders of the prosperity gospel movement - Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland and Frederick K.C. Price - took hold in the 1970s and 1980s. One of the oldest and best-known proponents of prosperity theology, Oral Roberts - the television faith-healer who in 1987 told his flock that God would call him home if he didn't raise $8 million in a matter of weeks - died at 91 last week.

But the past decade has seen this pernicious doctrine proliferate in more mainstream circles. Joel Osteen, the 46-year-old head of Lakewood Church in Houston, has a TV ministry that reaches more than 7 million viewers, and his 2004 book "Your Best Life Now: 7 Steps to Living at Your Full Potential," has sold millions of copies. "God wants us to prosper financially, to have plenty of money, to fulfill the destiny He has laid out for us," Osteen wrote in a 2005 letter to his flock.

As crass as that may sound, Osteen's version of the prosperity gospel is more gentle (and decidedly less sweaty) than those preached by such co-religionists as Benny Hinn, T.D. Jakes and the appropriately named Creflo Dollar.

Few theological ideas ring more dissonant with the harmony of orthodox Christianity than a focus on storing up treasures on Earth as a primary goal of faithful living. The gospel of prosperity turns Christianity into a vapid bless-me club, with a doctrine that amounts to little more than spiritual magical thinking: If you pray the right way, God will make you rich.

But if you're not rich, then what? Are the poor cursed by God because of their unfaithfulness? And if God were so concerned about 401(k)s and Mercedes, why would God's son have been born into poverty?

Nowhere has the prosperity gospel flourished more than among the poor and the working class. Told that wealth is a sign of God's grace and favor, followers strive for trappings of luxury they can little afford in an effort to prove that they are blessed spiritually. Some critics have gone so far as to place part of the blame for the past decade's spending binge and foreclosure crisis at the foot of the prosperity gospel's altar.

Jesus was born poor, and he died poor. During his earthly tenure, he spoke time and again about the importance of spiritual wealth and health. When he talked about material wealth, it was usually part of a cautionary tale.

Cathleen Falsani is the religion columnist for the Chicago Sun-Times and the author of "The Dude Abides: The Gospel According to the Coen Brothers."

 

 

Wow! Cathleen Falsani nails it!!!

 

I don't agree with calling people heretics though... it greatly annoys me how some people killed who they called "heretics."

 

However, it's important to note that Jesus did not teach/model material wealth. He focused on healing people, sort of like doctors/nurses do today but with much faster methods/results, and he preached on love and the Kingdom of Heaven. He taught his followers to endure suffering, and he showed by example, suffering on the cross.

 

Most of his followers who walked and talked with him suffered too, following his example. They didn't get rich. Instead, they dedicated their lives to telling others about him and helping people.

 

True Christianity is following Jesus Christ. It's not about getting rich or getting whatever you want. Rather, it's about "losing" your life for Jesus, like he lost his life for us. It's about believing that just as we believe Jesus rose from the dead, so someday we will be free from our earthly bodies, our shells connected to our souls/spirits, and spend eternity with our Creator after doing the good works He wants us to do first! :love:

One thing I am learning right now is the following teaching of Jesus: (I boldened some.)

 

 

Matthew 5 - Mat 5 NIV - Introduction to the Sermon on the Mount - Bible Gateway

 

"8 Blessed are the pure in heart,

for they will see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers,

for they will be called children of God.

10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

 

It's most definitely not easy to rejoice and be glad when people insult, falsely say evil things against, or persecute, but Jesus did not at all say that following him = getting rich or having fame or being popular.

 

Following Jesus is a commitment to follow him even when others don't like that.

 

The following teaching of Peter is comforting, though I am so thankful for freedom of religion. In his time and place, the concept of freedom of religion was not practiced like it is in Western countries today.

 

 

1 Peter 4 (I boldened some.)

 

1 Peter 4 NIV - Living for God - Therefore, since - Bible Gateway

 

 

"12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name."

 

Many people in the world do not like Jesus' teachings. They think they are weak. However, Jesus' teachings center on love: loving God and loving others. He did not kill anybody but rather healed people. He warned people against living contrary to God. He also showed them love, love that is stronger than death!

Edited by BetheButterfly
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