I'm annoyed with my own thoughts about men.

[superb]

I'm not sure how I'm going to date or find a normal relationship beyond the bedroom. What am I doing wrong?

[Balzac]

Your question doesn't exactly explain your thoughts.

If you know your criteria and understand "normal" is it access to a target rich zip code? What?

[Feelin Frisky]

Hard to say since you haven't said what you're doing at all. I think the overall best advice for either men or women is to ry to collect yourself and decide what it is that interests you. If you live in a big city, see if there are any groups or associations that have meetings. Perhaps continue your education if you can swing it. The idea is to get exposure to peers doing productive things or even some enjoyable things that don't mean you're committed to that particular goal. One thing I did for a goof was join a "voice over" workshop where people learned to lose regional accents and we also learned different roles in voice-over work--like from commercials where we put on a voice to industrial narrations. It was co-ed, challenging to your nerve, and sometimes hilarious. My first commercial reading was "I'm a sock". I had to be a sock and read a commercial in front of people about the life of a sock to sell some detergent or what not.

 

If you find any use in my advice don't expect it to get you exposure/friends/etc right away. It may take a lot of tries at different things buy you will meet people all of who are trying to have some kind of life other than consuming stuff, going to bars or staying home and watching TV. Be patient but persistent.

[superb]

What I desire is a best friend and lover. I get the lover...but then he leaves/loses interest. I'm attracting and attracted to the wrong types of men..this is already been determined. However, being "myself" means being an open and honest woman so I keep being me. I know I've made poor choices, I recognize them but it seems I continuously let men doop me into believing their lies and bs. I want to change. I want to find what I truly desire so I can stop feeling confused/conflicted about dating. I'm really struggling here. My feelings have been terribly hurt and I know I'm supposed to not care like everyone says but how can I not care about what's happened? How can I not feel wounded by being used and disregarded? Better yet, how can so many men do this and feel nothing? I don't understand.

[superb]

Hard to say since you haven't said what you're doing at all. I think the overall best advice for either men or women is to ry to collect yourself and decide what it is that interests you. If you live in a big city, see if there are any groups or associations that have meetings. Perhaps continue your education if you can swing it. The idea is to get exposure to peers doing productive things or even some enjoyable things that don't mean you're committed to that particular goal. One thing I did for a goof was join a "voice over" workshop where people learned to lose regional accents and we also learned different roles in voice-over work--like from commercials where we put on a voice to industrial narrations. It was co-ed, challenging to your nerve, and sometimes hilarious. My first commercial reading was "I'm a sock". I had to be a sock and read a commercial in front of people about the life of a sock to sell some detergent or what not.

 

If you find any use in my advice don't expect it to get you exposure/friends/etc right away. It may take a lot of tries at different things buy you will meet people all of who are trying to have some kind of life other than consuming stuff, going to bars or staying home and watching TV. Be patient but persistent.

 

I would like to get out more. I spend the majority of my time with my kids or at work so my adult exposure has been limited to internet activity in the past but I will not date from the internet again due to my very bad experiences.

[superb]

a very wise person once said the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...

 

so if you always go for the wrong type of men... change it...

 

if you always seem to be the lover first... stop it... make sure you have the friend first...

 

if you always find a drunk guy at a bar.... look elsewhere...

 

decide and list what you are actually wanting... really think about what is important to you... then you can start to look and find that kind of person...

 

you have had bad OLD experiences, while I've had great ones, and even met my current GF on there.... so I can and does work....

 

maybe once you have figured out who you want and deserve, you can go back online and redo your profile to suit!?!?!?

 

 

 

You're right. I hate to generalize men and I believe in fairness. I'm breaking from dating until I feel better about what I'm doing. I know what I deserve, funny thing is men say they know what I deserve also..even sympathize with my past. I'm naive. I shouldn't believe lies. Til I get tougher I'm keeping away from men I guess. Especially since I can't date one with an open mind at this point.

[clia]

I'm still not quite sure on your thoughts about men, but it's good that you are trying to figure out what you should be doing differently, if anything.

 

What I desire is a best friend and lover. I get the lover...but then he leaves/loses interest.

 

This doesn't necessarily mean you are doing anything wrong. It means you aren't compatible with the man. It means you haven't yet found the right man.

 

I'm attracting and attracted to the wrong types of men..this is already been determined.

 

This is where you can really make a change. What do you think you are doing to attract the wrong men? What kind of men are you attracting? Try this: go out with any man who asks you out, provided he doesn't have any major dealbreakers (i.e. drugs, abusive, criminal, whatever). Even if you don't find him attractive, go out with him. Even if you think there is absolutely no future with him, go out with him. This is practice. This is a way to break out of your comfort zone. You may discover that you actually are attractive to different types of men than you think.

 

However, being "myself" means being an open and honest woman so I keep being me.

 

It's great to be open and honest. However, the timing of the openness and honesty may be what is hurting you. You don't have to spill every thought that enters your mind with a new guy. The early days of a relationship are precarious. People get spooked easily sometimes. I'm not saying to hold back who you are, but maybe just let it dribble out a little more slowly.

 

I know I've made poor choices, I recognize them but it seems I continuously let men doop me into believing their lies and bs.

 

They can't dupe you if you don't let them. You know the warning signs -- stop ignoring them. You have to learn to cut bait when you start seeing the warning signs rather than making excuses or convincing yourself they aren't there. Believe me, I spent a lot of my early 20s makins excuses for things men did rather than simply listening to what they were saying and watching their actions. In hindsight, many of the men who I thought treated me badly were actually very up front -- I just ignored what they were saying or convinced myself that they didn't mean what they were saying. It can be hard to cut bait when you have fallen for someone, but better sooner rather than later. You are in charge of protecting your heart.

 

My feelings have been terribly hurt and I know I'm supposed to not care like everyone says but how can I not care about what's happened? How can I not feel wounded by being used and disregarded? Better yet, how can so many men do this and feel nothing? I don't understand.

 

What happened?

[superb]

I appreciate your advice and I'm going to work on those things.

 

What happened is the same thing over and over-example: I meet a man, he is nice, attractive. I state what I'm looking for and he plays on that. Acts like he's into it, promises me things he knows I want to hear. I sleep with him. After sex he still pretends then Blips off the radar. Typical player stuff. However, each time this happens I call the man out. I'm not afraid to be honest with what I think he's doing. Then no contact.

 

But here I am...left thinking and wondering what is wrong with me. Every time. I don't enjoy feeling this way. I'm disappointed with myself. I think I take things to heart too much. I don't know what else to say besides I know I deserve better than this. That's what I'm trying to get at and where I'm trying to be.

[KungFuJoe]

Are you divorced? How long was your marriage and how long have you been single?

[superb]

Are you divorced? How long was your marriage and how long have you been single?

 

Yes I'm divorced. I was married for 10 years, we had 5 children. I've been single since January 1st 2007..so 6 years single.

 

I feel like I'm now going through what I should have gone through when I was in my 20's.

 

I'm not here to complain or bash on men but I do feel myself becoming very cynical and I don't like that side of me.

Edited January 31, 2013 by superb

[KungFuJoe]

Yes I'm divorced. I was married for 10 years, we had 5 children. I've been single since January 1st 2007..so 6 years single.

 

I feel like I'm now going through what I should have gone through when I was in my 20's.

 

I'm not here to complain or bash on men but I do feel myself becoming very cynical and I don't like that side of me.

 

You're just going to need time. 10 years is a LONG time. Plus kids don't make it any easier. It took me nearly 2 years (and a LOT of bs) to finally get over my first gf of 4 years. And we didn't have any kids. I was depressed a LOT.

 

How old are you and your kids?

[superb]

You're just going to need time. 10 years is a LONG time. Plus kids don't make it any easier. It took me nearly 2 years (and a LOT of bs) to finally get over my first gf of 4 years. And we didn't have any kids. I was depressed a LOT.

 

How old are you and your kids?

 

I'm 34. Kids are 16,13,12,9 &.5. 5yr old was a divorce gift from my ex so I was pregnant as lmost all of 07. I feel complete closure from the marriage, honestly didn't think it'd be this difficult for me. Hes since moved on & expecting his 7th baby.

[superb]

*almost. Typo. I'm sick, in bed on mobile web.

[Almond_Joy]

Reading so many stories on loveshack and recounting my experience and the experience of my best friend, my observation is that there are an inordinate amount of people out in the world who are only interested in getting their needs met. Their needs are their only concern and they'll do whatever works to get what they want. I get the impression that selfish people expect the same of others so there is no empathy or willingness to be vulnerable on the dating scene with these folks. Of course not everyone's like this, but there are enough out there that finding someone who will not abuse your honesty is a long and arduous search.

 

The dating process is very rough for the typical woman wanting a monogamous, honest relationship emotionally. I'm sure it's hard for men too but I can't speak for men.

 

My closest girlfriend went through at least a dozen horrible dating experiences after her divorce a couple years ago, many of them following the same pattern you have been experiencing. She had her heart broken and was led on several times. But the important thing is that she kept trying. She kept putting herself out there, as scared and hurt as she already was, and she tried very hard not to apply predetermined judgement on new guys.

 

She finally found a guy who appreciates and loves her and they have the relationship she's been looking for.

 

I share all this just to illustrate that you are not alone in this experience. Everyone has problems, but I doubt that yours are any worse than any other typical person out there . It's hard but don't give up hope and don't assume there's something wrong with you or your perspective. What's wrong in one relationship may be just fine in another. You can only, as you have been, be who you are.

 

Just keep trying - if you are ready for and desire a loving relationship you will have one.

 

Hope this helps and good luck to you.

[carhill]

Would you say that you feel you are 'rushing things', reflecting upon recent experiences?

 

I ask this because the responsibility and time constraints of caring for five children is enormous.

 

Honestly, having dated single mothers in my 30's, five children is a factor in the dynamic of attracting and forming a relationship with a compatible man. If presented with that dynamic back then, it would have set me back on my heels, and I love children. Even the two or three children of the ladies I dated or had relationships with were a handful, considering financial aspects and involvement with their fathers. A lot of single men, especially childless ones, may not be up to it. The healthy ones will decline respectfully, but others may, circumstances allowing, create the dynamic you've found to be unhealthy for yourself, more of a casual sexual relationship which doesn't develop into a committed union.

 

IMO, and it's strictly one man's opinion, you'd be better served making and growing associations in real life, perhaps through activities, whether adult or where your children are involved. Get to know people over time and with transparency and let the sexual and romantic parts grow out of a common base.

 

Good luck.

[superb]

Reading so many stories on loveshack and recounting my experience and the experience of my best friend, my observation is that there are an inordinate amount of people out in the world who are only interested in getting their needs met. Their needs are their only concern and they'll do whatever works to get what they want. I get the impression that selfish people expect the same of others so there is no empathy or willingness to be vulnerable on the dating scene with these folks. Of course not everyone's like this, but there are enough out there that finding someone who will not abuse your honesty is a long and arduous search.

 

The dating process is very rough for the typical woman wanting a monogamous, honest relationship emotionally. I'm sure it's hard for men too but I can't speak for men.

 

My closest girlfriend went through at least a dozen horrible dating experiences after her divorce a couple years ago, many of them following the same pattern you have been experiencing. She had her heart broken and was led on several times. But the important thing is that she kept trying. She kept putting herself out there, as scared and hurt as she already was, and she tried very hard not to apply predetermined judgement on new guys.

 

She finally found a guy who appreciates and loves her and they have the relationship she's been looking for.

 

I share all this just to illustrate that you are not alone in this experience. Everyone has problems, but I doubt that yours are any worse than any other typical person out there . It's hard but don't give up hope and don't assume there's something wrong with you or your perspective. What's wrong in one relationship may be just fine in another. You can only, as you have been, be who you are.

 

Just keep trying - if you are ready for and desire a loving relationship you will have one.

 

Hope this helps and good luck to you.

 

 

Thank you for the encouraging words.

[superb]

Would you say that you feel you are 'rushing things', reflecting upon recent experiences?

 

I ask this because the responsibility and time constraints of caring for five children is enormous.

 

Honestly, having dated single mothers in my 30's, five children is a factor in the dynamic of attracting and forming a relationship with a compatible man. If presented with that dynamic back then, it would have set me back on my heels, and I love children. Even the two or three children of the ladies I dated or had relationships with were a handful, considering financial aspects and involvement with their fathers. A lot of single men, especially childless ones, may not be up to it. The healthy ones will decline respectfully, but others may, circumstances allowing, create the dynamic you've found to be unhealthy for yourself, more of a casual sexual relationship which doesn't develop into a committed union.

 

IMO, and it's strictly one man's opinion, you'd be better served making and growing associations in real life, perhaps through activities, whether adult or where your children are involved. Get to know people over time and with transparency and let the sexual and romantic parts grow out of a common base.

 

Good luck.

 

I think it's fair to say I move too quickly. Urgently even. I dated a few guys with no kids, that didn't work out. Last man had 2 kids. I figured picking a man a few years older with children would benefit me but he was the same as the others. More careless than he'd promised to be.

 

I think you're right about finding real life people to be around before relationship expectations get brought into the mix.

 

Thanks.

[KungFuJoe]

I'm 34. Kids are 16,13,12,9 &.5. 5yr old was a divorce gift from my ex so I was pregnant as lmost all of 07. I feel complete closure from the marriage, honestly didn't think it'd be this difficult for me. Hes since moved on & expecting his 7th baby.

 

You're still young, so that's a good thing.

 

You have 5 kids, so that's going to make dating tough. I don't think I need to tell you that it might be a hard pill to swallow for some men. But, your kids are older so it's not like you're running around changing diapers (well...I'm sure you still run after your 5 year old )

 

You will most likely have to date men older than you, who even might have kids of their own, or definitely want kids. It's the reality of the situation.

 

Honestly, even though this might not be want you want to hear, especially since your ex has moved on with someone else (and you probably feel it's not fair...and it isn't), but you might have to lay low for awhile, focus on your kids and yourself....and try to make yourself happy with YOURSELF. And just not need anyone in your life.

 

I know it sounds like a cliche, but it worked for me.

[superb]

You're still young, so that's a good thing.

 

You have 5 kids, so that's going to make dating tough. I don't think I need to tell you that it might be a hard pill to swallow for some men. But, your kids are older so it's not like you're running around changing diapers (well...I'm sure you still run after your 5 year old )

 

You will most likely have to date men older than you, who even might have kids of their own, or definitely want kids. It's the reality of the situation.

 

Honestly, even though this might not be want you want to hear, especially since your ex has moved on with someone else (and you probably feel it's not fair...and it isn't), but you might have to lay low for awhile, focus on your kids and yourself....and try to make yourself happy with YOURSELF. And just not need anyone in your life.

 

I know it sounds like a cliche, but it worked for me.

 

I feel that and have not had men in and out of my kids life since the divorce. I keep them very separate. I am also 100% independent and have my own house, job, car, routine for my family. I don't live with family members, I don't have problems with drugs/alcohol etc. Typical things young single mothers get themselves into -not trying to stereotype- but its true.

Looking at me I thought I'd be a pretty ideal woman. I realize the 5 kids is an uphill battle but they're growing up and honestly I wouldn't be a great person without them. I'm gonna lay low. Good advice.

[Feelin Frisky]

I would like to get out more. I spend the majority of my time with my kids or at work so my adult exposure has been limited to internet activity in the past but I will not date from the internet again due to my very bad experiences.

 

 

Good. I've been hurt too. I don't even try anymore. (Actually I never came to the Internet to date and don't have any OLD profiles. I have a few experiences as a result of "forum life" like this though.) Real life is hard knocks and those knocks may seem easy for some but not for me (and I suspect a lot of folks hurt more than they show). I just offered some advice in my post on choosing a life style of encountering people who are not trying to make other people the object of their existence. That's co-dependence and it almost always comes to no good. I've had women in my past treat me as if I'm supposed to now anticipate every next thing she wants and if I dare be myself they turn around and trash any good feeling in me because somehow they think they're entitled to my brain. I wasn't trained to be a mind reader or a servant. I want to have purpose other than making a needy, selfish, whiner happy every second of her life. Who makes me happy like that? No one. But make no mistake, falling in love and having it go to hell hurts terribly. That's why it's important to become a "purposeful person" with interests, insights, vision, and so forth so that others can see that you're someone all on your own who doesn't "need" them--someone who'll always land on her feet. Then they consider it a privilege to win your attention and a pleasing duty to do things that cause you to have interest in them. More people than not are just looking for someone else so they can stop the question marks about themselves--and thus become so co-dependent they make life smothering or the opposite, a senseless void. No intention of judging you (I have nothing to go on anyway)--just throwing out some hopefully stimulative thought. There's plenty of hope for you I'm sure. Jim

[superb]

Good. I've been hurt too. I don't even try anymore. (Actually I never came to the Internet to date and don't have any OLD profiles. I have a few experiences as a result of "forum life" like this though.) Real life is hard knocks and those knocks may seem easy for some but not for me (and I suspect a lot of folks hurt more than they show). I just offered some advice in my post on choosing a life style of encountering people who are not trying to make other people the object of their existence. That's co-dependence and it almost always comes to no good. I've had women in my past treat me as if I'm supposed to now anticipate every next thing she wants and if I dare be myself they turn around and trash any good feeling in me because somehow they think they're entitled to my brain. I wasn't trained to be a mind reader or a servant. I want to have purpose other than making a needy, selfish, whiner happy every second of her life. Who makes me happy like that? No one. But make no mistake, falling in love and having it go to hell hurts terribly. That's why it's important to become a "purposeful person" with interests, insights, vision, and so forth so that others can see that you're someone all on your own who doesn't "need" them--someone who'll always land on her feet. Then they consider it a privilege to win your attention and a pleasing duty to do things that cause you to have interest in them. More people than not are just looking for someone else so they can stop the question marks about themselves--and thus become so co-dependent they make life smothering or the opposite, a senseless void. No intention of judging you (I have nothing to go on anyway)--just throwing out some hopefully stimulative thought. There's plenty of hope for you I'm sure. Jim

 

 

Thank you and I don't feel judged at all. I appreciate the advice and it all makes sense. I've been spending a lot of time on this site this week reaching out instead of making OLD profiles/contacting men I know because I know I need to work on my interior right now and the path of instant gratification will soothe me now but hurt me later.

*positive- joining a new gym this month. That'll keep me around real life people and boost my own confidence back up.

*positive- I have my children and my life with them. Which makes me happy.

*positive- Kids and I have planned a little trip for us.

*positive- I'm going to be hanging out at the library more often and studying my tarot cards and other things I'm into.

 

You guys really helped me see things clearer, thank you.

[yumyumyum]

What I desire is a best friend and lover. I get the lover...but then he leaves/loses interest. I'm attracting and attracted to the wrong types of men..this is already been determined. However, being "myself" means being an open and honest woman so I keep being me. I know I've made poor choices, I recognize them but it seems I continuously let men doop me into believing their lies and bs. I want to change. I want to find what I truly desire so I can stop feeling confused/conflicted about dating. I'm really struggling here. My feelings have been terribly hurt and I know I'm supposed to not care like everyone says but how can I not care about what's happened? How can I not feel wounded by being used and disregarded? Better yet, how can so many men do this and feel nothing? I don't understand.

 

I think deep down. Guys generally want to have as much sex as possible with as many people as possible. Remember that really...deep down...we are all just monkeys...animals. Like any other male animal...men have strong drives to mate with as many women as possible. THIS IS HOW EVERY SPECIES TRIES TO SURVIVE AND WE ARE NO DIFFERENT (even though we often tell ourselves that we are not animals). If there was no civilization or society...this is how men would behave...unrestrained. EVEN WITH OUR CIVILIZATION AND SOCIETY...MEN STILL BEHAVE LIKE THIS!!! AS YOU HAVE POINTED OUT!

_________________________________________________

 

My answer would be to accept this fact and USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. If you want a friend...someone who is going to stick around. MAKE THIS OBVIOUS TO THE GUYS THAT YOU MEET. It should be friendship/love/emotional connection first...then sex. Not the other way round. If they try and pressure you/trick you/use mind games etc. to get the sex. REMIND YOURSELF THAT YOU WANT TO BE SURE THAT THEY WILL STICK AROUND FIRST. Keep putting off the sex like some teenaged, christian virgin! I AM SERIOUS. Be 100% sure in your mind first that there is a deep and loving connection before you next have sex.

 

...sure the guy might not like this (BUT HE WILL DEF. RESPECT YOU FOR IT...which is half of the attraction!). He might threaten to leave. He might flirt with other girls to try and make you jealous. He might even go and have sex with someone else!!!!!!!!!! BUT A SOON AS THIS HAPPENS...IT KIND OF PROVES THAT ALL HE REALLY WANTED WAS SEX ANYWAY. AND AS PAINFUL AND SCARY AS IT MIGHT BE...YOU ARE BETTER GETTING RID AND MOVING ON TO THE NEXT PERSON...AND SEEING IF THEY ARE WILLING TO HAVE A 'NORMAL' AND 'ADULT' RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU.

 

Hope some of this helps sweets.

 

x

 

(P.S. For what it's worth, I am the sort of man that does want to settle down as soon as possible, marry and stay married until death. SO GUYS LIKE THIS DO EXIST.

...on the other hand. I am a virgin and not very experienced with dating...SO MAYBE IT IS JUST THAT I HAVE YET TO FULLY REALIZE AND FULFILL MY DRIVE TO MATE...who knows how I will feel when I finally learn how to meet women/have sex for the first time?).

Edited February 3, 2013 by yumyumyum

[superb]

I think deep down. Guys generally want to have as much sex as possible with as many people as possible. Remember that really...deep down...we are all just monkeys...animals. Like any other male animal...men have strong drives to mate with as many women as possible. THIS IS HOW EVERY SPECIES TRIES TO SURVIVE AND WE ARE NO DIFFERENT (even though we often tell ourselves that we are not animals). If there was no civilization or society...this is how men would behave...unrestrained. EVEN WITH OUR CIVILIZATION AND SOCIETY...MEN STILL BEHAVE LIKE THIS!!! AS YOU HAVE POINTED OUT!

_________________________________________________

 

My answer would be to accept this fact and USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. If you want a friend...someone who is going to stick around. MAKE THIS OBVIOUS TO THE GUYS THAT YOU MEET. It should be friendship/love/emotional connection first...then sex. Not the other way round. If they try and pressure you/trick you/use mind games etc. to get the sex. REMIND YOURSELF THAT YOU WANT TO BE SURE THAT THEY WILL STICK AROUND FIRST. Keep putting off the sex like some teenaged, christian virgin! I AM SERIOUS. Be 100% sure in your mind first that there is a deep and loving connection before you next have sex.

 

...sure the guy might not like this (BUT HE WILL DEF. RESPECT YOU FOR IT...which is half of the attraction!). He might threaten to leave. He might flirt with other girls to try and make you jealous. He might even go and have sex with someone else!!!!!!!!!! BUT A SOON AS THIS HAPPENS...IT KIND OF PROVES THAT ALL HE REALLY WANTED WAS SEX ANYWAY. AND AS PAINFUL AND SCARY AS IT MIGHT BE...YOU ARE BETTER GETTING RID AND MOVING ON TO THE NEXT PERSON...AND SEEING IF THEY ARE WILLING TO HAVE A 'NORMAL' AND 'ADULT' RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU.

 

Hope some of this helps sweets.

 

x

 

(P.S. For what it's worth, I am the sort of man that does want to settle down as soon as possible, marry and stay married until death. SO GUYS LIKE THIS DO EXIST.

...on the other hand. I am a virgin and not very experienced with dating...SO MAYBE IT IS JUST THAT I HAVE YET TO FULLY REALIZE AND FULFILL MY DRIVE TO MATE...who knows how I will feel when I finally learn how to meet women/have sex for the first time?).

 

I get all this and I don't hate men for wanting what they want...what I hate is how they've not been clear on their agenda and used lies and bs to romance me. It hurts my feelings. Nothing like getting your hopes up and having them stomped on. It's an emotional rollercoaster. Being a sexual being myself I have a hard time making someone wait a very long period of time before sex BUT I am doing some soul searching and I'm going to change myself and how I handle these men. If I have to withhold sex then...so be it.

 

Thanks for the advice