Second exposure? Thoughts?

[turnera]

Here's my take. We grow up, being told what we should be doing - manners, expectations, limits to public rudeness etc., to get married, to have kids, to take the kids to Grandma's for Christmas, on and on...

 

Our first 30 years or so, psychologically speaking, we are busy fulfilling those things. Without even thinking about it. We're supposed to marry? Let's get married. We're supposed to have a full-time job instead of pursuing our passion for singing? Done.

 

And then, once we start to get to a point where we can step back and really LOOK at our life, once our parents' influence starts to wane, and we start to question if any of this stuff we're doing is what WE really would have chosen...one of several things can happen. We can decide it's good enough and we're content (or not), we can go berserk and go chase that windmill, or we can grow up and try to achieve a little of BOTH sides. You got the middle one. Not to say he won't eventually grow up. But by then, you probably won't want him back.

 

The MB program suggests you give a WS a maximum of 3 months (I think, for BWs) before you just totally write him off and move forward without him. It's for a purpose: to keep you from hanging around, watching him be 'gross,' and losing your love and respect for him a day at a time. So that, if he DOES get his head out of his azz, and comes asking for forgiveness, you don't totally hate him now.

[Confused3232]

Turnera,

 

Thanks, I think a lot of your reply is correct, especially about the 3 month thing, as I am in 6 months and feel that I have fallen out of love with this man. However, in our marriage, we didn't wed until we were in our 30's, we both had established careers and we even when to pre-marriage counseling to ensure we were as good of a fit as we thought we were. Over our relationship we did have a lot of hurdles to overcome that I believe took a toll on our relationship (my cancer, IVF, 2 miscarriages, a really hard pregnancy with our twins). But, we seemed to float through them...what I didn't know is he was starting to have an affair.

 

I believe that everything in life is a learning experience to better yourself. I have admitted that I could have been a little less of a nag and a few other things, but if he would have came to me, I would have been open ears. I don't understand why God is giving me such a harsh lesson? I have lost so much and I don't think it is deserved.

[Spark1111]

Confused, I really believe the OW's H doesn't know enough. how do YOU know they haven't even broached the subject?

 

Something still smells fishy to me, sorry.

 

it took a good three to four months before I was even interested in broaching the subject of us.

 

he kept showing up like a bad penny and if I didn't like his answers, I walked. there was an angry arrogance around him when he been in contact with her, so I just knew it was ongoing.

 

that personna began to alternate with someone becoming more and more remorseful and apologetic....tears....a real mess....and still I held back my heart.

 

We eventually went to MC and I still felt somewhat manipulated there too because he became angry and defensive when challenged by me or the counsellor.

 

it took consistent actions over time, total transparency, and a willingness to do anything at all to heal me, heal us.

 

he took it upon himself to transfer offices away from her. And when he initiated NC for good....I could just tell...His entire personality changed back to the man who had always loved and adored me.

 

even still, I remained unsure for a very, very long time and I told him that. I did not want to give him any false hope if I turned and decided I could not reconcile.

[turnera]

He knows you can handle it? It must be a horrible time for you, but I think 10 years from now, when you've worked this all out, one way or another, you'll look back and see that this was a growth moment for you, and something that helped you reach something God thought you needed.

[Decorative]

This is an amazing comment. I must have read it 10 times already. What finally snapped your spouse out of that bubble? How long did it take? I am not looking to R at this point, but I am having a hard time dealing with him even on a co-parent basis. He is just so gross. How did you bring yourself to take your spouse back? I just couldn't even imagine it at this point. He is living this fantasy while I am working full time, taking care of our twins, keeping up our house, etc. How does someone do this to another person? I wouldn't do it to my worst enemy!

 

Interestingly, even after what has happened with my husband, the OW and her husband haven't even broached the topic of the affair. He is just waiting for it to go away. And she doesn't seem to want to leave her husband...I would think that my husband getting a divorce would be reason enough!?!

 

The affair was over and done with about ten days after I kicked him out. It did not survive exposure, and it did not survive the prospect of me being gone. When push came to shove- he did not want her. He wanted me.

 

However- he came home- and I realized he was not ready to be there- and I did not want front row seats to his defogging- so back out he went, for six months. During that time he had a lot of individual counseling, and he worked very very hard to show me he was worthy of giving another chance to. Total transparency. Answering every question. Laying everything out for me. never ever blaming me.

 

But I will say that I exposed in March- and it wasn't until probably the end of June that I started to entertain the thought of being able to keep our marriage together. I started seeing the guy I knew again. Not the crazy person that had been gaslighting me.

 

And he was not back home with me until that October. I wanted to be sure. Or as sure as I could be. I did not want to confuse our kids.

[Confused3232]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for sharing your stories with me. It helps to see how these things tend to unfold (one way or another). Sparks - I am positive he knows, he has decided not to rock the boat and just wait it out. He thinks bringing it up could do more harm than good. These are his words to me directly.

 

As for my WH, he signed a 2 month lease at a furnished apartment really close to our home. He was talking of signing a one year lease, but he didn't. I have been REALLY good. No texting/calls what so ever unless it is about him seeing the kids. Funny thing is, he has called (normally he would only text me) more than ever in the last couple of days, but I have not answered one of them. Every time he comes over, he is trying to figure out if I have started dating someone. Yup, because I have all the time in the world with 6 month twins!!

 

What is his deal?

 

Anyways, the nights and mornings are the hardest, but I assume they just get easier. I am really tired doing this by myself, but I love my girls and would do anything for them.

 

You all are so wonderful, I look forward to your posts each day!

[turnera]

You have to remember that they are 100% CONSUMED with thoughts about themselves, and they can't understand, therefore, that everyone ELSE isn't consumed with thoughts about him. And cheaters will always think YOU want to do the same thing.

 

The best thing you can do right now is what you're doing - remaining aloof, handling it yourself, NOT feeding his Emotional Needs (he fired you, remember? not your job any more), and showing him that if he's going to be an ass, you will respect yourself enough to move on. He can come back and beg and apologize if he wants you back. Until then, you respect yourself too much to stoop to following him around or showing weakness.

[jwi71]

I have seem a glimpse of that already. He wanted me to delay the file date on our divorce documents. When I said no, he went nuts. Also when I packed up his stuff, he was mad...and I did a pretty good job of packing it. Most women would burn it or spread it over the neigherborhood!

 

My now xWW pulled some of this.

 

I didn't stop - I filed.

When she asked for everything under the moon in the decree - I gave it to her even when my lawyer said I could push back and get "more". So I explained my goal wasn't materials but my xWW out of my life. The D was VERY easy after that - I was willing, and did, lose it all (except the big screen, bitch wasn't getting that - its a man thing).

 

After the D...she tried three times to return.

 

So I see parallels. I expect him to try and return. And Spark had a fantabulous post on how to push through those "panic reconciliations attempts" by him.

 

He does NOT have an easy path. Its STILL not "real" for him yet.

 

File for D, have him move out, and change the locks.

 

1) You can always withdraw the D petition. Or get remarried.

2) He HAS to move out. HE wants to be single guy playboy - let him. IT aint all its cracked up to be

3) When he comes back, and he will, have an understanding of what YOU need. Like verifiable proof of his IC. Verifiable proof the A is over (again, refer back to Spark's post). And here's the trick - he can't prove its over. But let him try - its good bit of mental "torture" for him to have devise ways to prove its over. (Its ok to be a little evil)

4) Be patient. All YOU have to do is nothing - file for D, move him out, tell people as YOU see fit (Id keep it to close friends and family).

5) Allow HIS parents to visit (a bit more evil here )

6) You'll pick up on the change IF he wants it. Then do MC.

 

That's how I think the path to R will play out here. You gotta let him go to get him back - if that's what you want. And who knows - after time - you may not want him back.

 

He may not return.

 

Either way- you have answer.

 

And I dated single moms. No problem here - so don't worry about not being loved again - that's a load of horse crap.

[BetrayedH]

He's dealing with the reality of his situation now and it's nowhere near as fun as it was before. His wife has justifiably kicked him out. He's facing a divorce that he can't even slow down. His affair must be difficult to maintain with his OW being exposed. She may well be on the fence trying to decide what she will do. Instead of having two women, he faces the prospects of having none. Now he spends a significant amount of time alone as his OW has a job, family, and husband to deal with. Even their conversations have changed from sexting with one another to now constantly trying to figure out how to do damage control.

 

What he probably desperately wants is to somehow be the victim in this scenario. If you are dating, it minimizes his guilt. If you resume the day to day interactions, he can feel what he did must not be so bad. Right now he has no ammunition whatsoever. That makes him angry.

 

Let him go kick rocks. You're doing fantastic. No conversations except the kids, shared finances, and the divorce. Yay! Keep those healthy boundaries in place. And yes, you will heal over time. You will get stronger every day.

 

As for the other betrayed husband, he's likely in shock. As a man that went thru this, I can say that our overwhelming motive right after Dday is to find a way to keep our nuclear family intact. I couldn't comprehend what the hell had happened and until I did, I was going to do everything possible to not let it destroy the family. "Not rocking the boat" is an apt description. If my wife was already in an affair, then being angry and asking a bunch of direct questions could push her right out the door. Hell, I didn't even know WTF had happened. I needed to get my bearings. It really took me about 2-3 months to hit my anger stage (once I felt safe that she wasn't going to up and leave any moment). And I had found this place even before my Dday. I read voraciously trying to figure out what to do. But it takes some time to get out of analysis paralysis.

[Confused3232]

You all are such an amazing group of people, I can't even tell you how much your posts help me. When things are confusing and sad and I don't know where else to turn, one of you puts things in perspective and makes my life much clearer.

 

I wish I had more patience, this is killing me. I go from wanting him to come crawling on his hands and knees to fast forwarding to a life with out him and watching girly movies with my twins. I am ALL over the place and go from bottom to top in 2 minutes flat. Yikes!

[turnera]

My dad cheated. He left to sow all those oats he thought were out there waiting for him. All he could find was middle-aged women with kids. So he tried to come home. My mom told him to kick rocks (love that phrase!). She never regretted it. He was an ass, and he married someone even worse than him; they deserved each other. Just saying that keeping a man at all costs isn't necessarily the only good goal.

[BetrayedH]

You all are such an amazing group of people, I can't even tell you how much your posts help me. When things are confusing and sad and I don't know where else to turn, one of you puts things in perspective and makes my life much clearer.

 

I wish I had more patience, this is killing me. I go from wanting him to come crawling on his hands and knees to fast forwarding to a life with out him and watching girly movies with my twins. I am ALL over the place and go from bottom to top in 2 minutes flat. Yikes!

 

What I have found interesting is that the path is the same whether you ultimately want to divorce or not. The 180 can be a huge wake-up call for the WS that inspires true remorse. And if it doesn't, you needed those 180 steps to detach. And in either scenario, you need to preserve your own sense of dignity and self-respect. Putting your own boundaries in place and sticking to them does a lot for a bruised self-esteem that kinda comes with the territory.

 

The alternative (what I call, trying to nice them back) has really negative implications for the BS even if they manage to keep the spouse home. You'd never see true remorse. You'd have much less confidence about your H repeating his performance. You lose self-respect for begging. You would manage to "keep" a husband that had learned nothing and you would have accepted less than you were worth to do it.

 

But it's damn hard. I certainly wish I had taken a harder line. Instead, I died a death of a thousand cuts.

 

I think you did well to consider the options. And in fairly short order (when you realized the lack of consequences allowed him to continue the affair), you were able to make the difficult decision to take the one path with the best chance of success. And I'm glad you're not being mean and nasty about it. I've never believed in instituting artificial consequences or punishing the WS; there are plenty of natural consequences to their behaviors. The trick is to avoid imposing artificial consequences while at the same time allowing the natural consequences to bring them to rock bottom. They will have taught themselves a terrible lesson. Some come crawling back; some are too prideful and keep digging deeper into the rabbit hole. Either way, you stay out of the dirt and give the children one strong and stable parent.

[turnera]

The alternative (what I call, trying to nice them back) has really negative implications for the BS even if they manage to keep the spouse home. You'd never see true remorse. You'd have much less confidence about your H repeating his performance. You lose self-respect for begging. You would manage to "keep" a husband that had learned nothing and you would have accepted less than you were worth to do it.

And he would be VERY likely to cheat on you again. And again. Because you showed him you do not respect yourself, so why should he?

[Confused3232]

My dad cheated. He left to sow all those oats he thought were out there waiting for him. All he could find was middle-aged women with kids. So he tried to come home. My mom told him to kick rocks (love that phrase!). She never regretted it. He was an ass, and he married someone even worse than him; they deserved each other. Just saying that keeping a man at all costs isn't necessarily the only good goal.

 

This is really good advice. Why keep a man that wouldn't put your feelings before his in these situations? A lot of his friends/family think he could do this again, because he isn't mature enough to handle marriage/kids. Ummm....that's easy to figure out now!

 

My husband has admitted that he doesn't know if marriage is for him, that he likes new and shiny and gets bored quickly. I don't know if this is in the cheaters script, or if it is the fact. He has ADHD pretty bad, but is a very smart man when it comes to business. So maybe he does have a hard time staying "focused" in more than one way.

[Confused3232]

What I have found interesting is that the path is the same whether you ultimately want to divorce or not. The 180 can be a huge wake-up call for the WS that inspires true remorse. And if it doesn't, you needed those 180 steps to detach. And in either scenario, you need to preserve your own sense of dignity and self-respect. Putting your own boundaries in place and sticking to them does a lot for a bruised self-esteem that kinda comes with the territory.

 

The alternative (what I call, trying to nice them back) has really negative implications for the BS even if they manage to keep the spouse home. You'd never see true remorse. You'd have much less confidence about your H repeating his performance. You lose self-respect for begging. You would manage to "keep" a husband that had learned nothing and you would have accepted less than you were worth to do it.

 

But it's damn hard. I certainly wish I had taken a harder line. Instead, I died a death of a thousand cuts.

 

I think you did well to consider the options. And in fairly short order (when you realized the lack of consequences allowed him to continue the affair), you were able to make the difficult decision to take the one path with the best chance of success. And I'm glad you're not being mean and nasty about it. I've never believed in instituting artificial consequences or punishing the WS; there are plenty of natural consequences to their behaviors. The trick is to avoid imposing artificial consequences while at the same time allowing the natural consequences to bring them to rock bottom. They will have taught themselves a terrible lesson. Some come crawling back; some are too prideful and keep digging deeper into the rabbit hole. Either way, you stay out of the dirt and give the children one strong and stable parent.

 

I agree, if this isn't a wake-up call, I don't know what is. Each day he misses getting to put his babies to bed and then also misses getting to see their bright little faces in the morning. That alone, would keep me in a marriage. They are the most wonderful little people.

 

But the 180 is also helping me detach. It is giving me some lines to not cross and to stand my ground. Not talking to him makes it easier. This morning he called my cell, then the house and then sent me a bunch of texts saying he was leaving for work but wondering if we were "all set?" I didn't answer either of the calls but did text him a single line "babies are good." and that was all. Then he called again later and sent a text saying the roads were icy. I didn't respond.

 

Today I was asked to lunch by a man I have always found handsome and he is very successful. We have had plenty of lunches in the past, so this was nothing out of the ordinary. But I can tell he has always found me attractive. I have to admit that I loved the feeling of a man showing interest in me. It was a nice little self confidence pick me up. I know I am a beautiful woman, but seeing it in the face of a handsome man again is flattering.

 

Life does go on!