At My Wits End About Fatigue I Have

January 31, 2013

I'm 48. I was exhausted for a year. Tried everything, had all the tests. I needed to change up my physical activity to short daily work outs. Not enough to wear me out, just 30 minutes. I do yoga every other day . I feel much better. If I gain weight I pick it up, but my energy is back.

So basically you were tired all the time and decided you were out of shape?

See, this is what most people should assume. But no, rather than being out of shape, it must be MS. Jeez.

January 31, 2013

But nice try, doctors are all in it for the money. Nevermind that they might earn much more in far less time in other industries and work 18 hours a day. No, it's the friggin' lazy people who were incapable of going to med school who know it all by googling. Good luck with that.

As for you, Forever Learning, it's good that you went to see a doctor and you should tell them about your fears, but please don't go thinking you must have MS or Alzheimer's. That's sort of ludicrous.

I don't think ES meant it that way. She comes from Eastern Europe originally like I do and we experience a lot of the things that she described in her post. Not everyone has access to great healthcare you know. We are very lucky in Western Europe to have that. I'm guessing FL doesn't have the right kind of insurance, she doesn't have a job because she has two small children to look after and she has only split with her husband relatively recently and she is starting again. Google is sometimes what we have you know.

There are a lot of milder symptoms that they will send you away with. When my sister was sick she was told it was 'stress' and made feel by her GP there was something mentally wrong with her and that she was a hyperchondriac. While she just had to cut some foods out of her diet in the end.

The healthcare profession isn't always understanding, certainly not everywhere in the world. You must know that.

January 31, 2013

I don't think ES meant it that way. She comes from Eastern Europe originally like I do and we experience a lot of the things that she described in her post. Not everyone has access to great healthcare you know. We are very lucky in Western Europe to have that. I'm guessing FL doesn't have the right kind of insurance, she doesn't have a job because she has two small children to look after and she has only split with her husband relatively recently and she is starting again. Google is sometimes what we have you know.

There are a lot of milder symptoms that they will send you away with. When my sister was sick she was told it was 'stress' and made feel by her GP there was something mentally wrong with her and that she was a hyperchondriac. While she just had to cut some foods out of her diet in the end.

The healthcare profession isn't always understanding, certainly not everywhere in the world. You must know that.

I know that. And they're not always right either. But they are right far more often than we are. Perhaps it's easy because there are so many doctors around me and I could always get something checked if I was worried, but I'm also not the kind of guy who has stomach pain and assumes he's dying.

I mean, Emilia, it's a big leap from fatigue to MS.

January 31, 2013

I mean, Emilia, it's a big leap from fatigue to MS.

True but we are older. We are hitting the age when these things do happen. We have people around us who die of cancer, who get MS, who have a stroke. It's not so unimagineable when you are 40 or 43 than when you are 25. I don't mean to patronise you but that's what it comes down to. She also has 2 kids which would up her anxiety level up quite significantly.

As someone else posted here, women get written off a lot for their neurosis and to be honest I'm guilty of that sometimes (the writing off I mean), but the truth is when you start feeling your age in some ways you get more worried. I know when my mother was very sick, she was worried about my sister and I especially because our father was useless and weak. You are under a different pressure in your 40s than in your 20s and that kinda makes you more anxious.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Emilia

January 31, 2013

OP, IMO be persistent in seeking a doctor who will rx Armour, if it is your desire to try it, since thyroid replacement therapy will be a lifelong thing for you. My mom was on it for over 50 years. I finally had to put her on Levoxyl after her dementia inhibited her ability to take her meds consistently, and consistency is important with Armour, especially for a person with the type of psychotic dementia she had.

Since you live in/near Houston, have the house checked for mold as well as have yourself tested for allergic reactions to molds. It's possible to 'trigger' the body and end up with a chronic reaction to even small exposures. I noted it back when I was caregiving and short on cash to run AC and using an evaporative cooler instead.

My sympathies. Fatigue sucks. Trying to figure it out while fatigued sucks too. Hope you feel better soon. Stay on those docs, or fire them and get new ones. Help is out there.

January 31, 2013

True but we are older. We are hitting the age when these things do happen. We have people around us who die of cancer, who get MS, who have a stroke. It's not so unimagineable when you are 40 or 43 than when you are 25. I don't mean to patronise you but that's what it comes down to. She also has 2 kids which would up her anxiety level up quite significantly.

As someone else posted here, women get written off a lot for their neurosis and to be honest I'm guilty of that sometimes (the writing off I mean), but the truth is when you start feeling your age in some ways you get more worried. I know when my mother was very sick, she was worried about my sister and I especially because our father was useless and weak. You are under a different pressure in your 40s than in your 20s and that kinda makes you more anxious.

I understand what you're saying. It's just that as my mom's practice is part of our house and I have to pick up the phone sometimes that I have to deal with hypochondriacs all the time. And honestly, almost everyone thinks they're not hypochondriacs and something very serious is wrong when they're tired. 99% of the time they're either out of shape, hate their jobs or eat ****ty food.

What I do see a lot is mental fatigue making people physically ill. So it's not that these people don't need help. It's just that they don't have MS.

January 31, 2013

And honestly, almost everyone thinks they're not hypochondriacs and something very serious is wrong when they're tired. 99% of the time they're either out of shape, hate their jobs or eat ****ty food.

What I do see a lot is mental fatigue making people physically ill. So it's not that these people don't need help. It's just that they don't have MS.

Oh I get that. I think no-one knows the extent that our state of mind and central nervous system control physical aspects of our body.

January 31, 2013

Oh I get that. I think no-one knows the extent that our state of mind and central nervous system control physical aspects of our body.

I don't know if you ever read The Power of the Subconscious Mind by Josep Murphy. It sounds like it's rubbish and some of it is, but I do agree with the general idea: your subconscious plays a vital role in how you feel and act. After all, your brain does control your heart beat, so it's not that much of a stretch to assume that your subconscious could fail to make you better when you're ill if you're unhappy.

January 31, 2013

Antidepressants are also a cause of fatigue, a common side effect.

If you use an AD talk to your Dr about the side effects of that drug and maybe try another one.

January 31, 2013

You know why doctors are often useless with symptoms like fatigue? Because the grand majority, and don't interrupt me here, cause I see them every day, the grand majority are people who are looking for attention more than anything.

Why googling is frowned upon? Because, again, the grand majority are crazy hypochondriacs. The rare few who know how to use google, and that includes not assuming you might have MS or Alzheimer's (which are, to be frank two diagnoses who are fairly wide apart).

This is utter bullcrap.

It's a myth perpetuated by doctors who like to think they're gods but don't want to do their f-ing jobs. Most doctors care more about their golf game and their Mercedes than they do about helping their patients. To most doctors, patients are an inconvenience and just a file to move through the system so they can appease their masters at the insurance companies and the government.

I wouldn't stay in business for a month if I treated my clients the way doctors treat their patients. Most doctors are competent if you can tell them exactly what is wrong with you and exactly what you want done, but you can't ever expect a doctor to actually do some thinking or (God forbid!) some actual research into your problems, because they can't make enough money if they actually help people get well. To doctors, we're all just walking dollar signs and the only thing they care about is how much revenue they can squeeze out of us before we give up and accept that the doctor won't do anything to help us.

There are a few good doctors out there, but they are getting increasingly hard to find. And most of the good ones are all leaving the mainstream healthcare system so they don't have to constantly bow down to the government and insurance companies.

So please don't give me any nonsense about how patients who care about their health are the problem. The problem with the American healthcare system is that doctors have abandoned being professionals and are now just (extremely) well-paid assembly line workers.

January 31, 2013

your subconscious plays a vital role in how you feel and act. After all, your brain does control your heart beat, so it's not that much of a stretch to assume that your subconscious could fail to make you better when you're ill if you're unhappy.

of course Psychosomatic Disorders | Health | Patient.co.uk

January 31, 2013

This is utter bullcrap.

It's a myth perpetuated by doctors who like to think they're gods but don't want to do their f-ing jobs. Most doctors care more about their golf game and their Mercedes than they do about helping their patients.

Most doctors in my family work 18 hours a day ON AVERAGE. Even if they had a Mercedes and they liked golf, I don't know when they'd play.

Do you honestly know what that's like? An 18 hour shift? Every goddamn day? They get up, start to work, stop working, go to sleep. That's it.

January 31, 2013

LOL on "getting MS" or "having MS" lol You don't "get" MS.

Fatigue caused by MS is widely unknown, but there are to types....With MS you may feel tired, real tired and I mean full body tired where all you want to do is sleep and or...just do nothing at all. The thing is, when you sleep, even for hours, you'll still feel fatigued.

fatigue is not being tired....Fatigu is a more serious problem sleep doesn't fix much.

In MS fatigue causes weakness after activities like walking....even for just a short distance. Often you'll see a person with MS pull a wheelchair or rollator out of their car and ride that into stores even though they can walk. The reason being, fatigue in MS is so bad that they need to ride a wheelchair in order to avoid the associated weakness from fatigue.

FL, have you had any sort of vision problems, tingling or numbness in any part of your body that doesn't go away for a while, Any problems concentrating?

MS is not an easy thing to diagnose....it takes a while with MRI's, spinal taps, comparing lesion intensities and patterns, plus many other diseases like Lyme disease can mimic MS.

January 31, 2013

LOL on "getting MS" or "having MS" lol You don't "get" MS.

Well, obviously you do. At one point you don't have it, then you do. Just like you can "get" ALS. This is really semantics.

January 31, 2013

Well, obviously you do. At one point you don't have it, then you do. Just like you can "get" ALS. This is really semantics.

What I am saying is....you don't "get" it like Lyme disease or something...

January 31, 2013

What I am saying is....you don't "get" it like Lyme disease or something...

True. Most importantly I think people are way too quick to think they might be afflicted by MS, ALS or Lyme disease. You know what it's like: you read about ALS. Then a couple of days later one of your fingers twitches and you go crazy.

January 31, 2013

True. Most importantly I think people are way too quick to think they might be afflicted by MS, ALS or Lyme disease. You know what it's like: you read about ALS. Then a couple of days later one of your fingers twitches and you go crazy.

I think with MS and ALS becoming more "Aware" to everyone than it used to be, people read the symptoms and anytime their leg gets numb at night from cutting off blood circulation it's like....OMG I MIGHT HAVE MS!! Yes I think people jump to conclusions too fast. Like I said....A million things can mimic MS....that is why MS is so freakin hard to pin-point. Chances are, FL doesn't have MS, but you never know.

I've seen the ugly that is MS...it's a terrible disease....absolutely terrible.

At the nursing home I have met and known many MS people including an 18 year old girl who overnight suffered a bad episode of Acute Multiple Sclerosis....or something like that. She was cheer-leading that night then paralyzed the next. She made a 70% recovery, but is now classified as Primary Progressive. It means she will be pretty much disabled the rest of her life....total disability. She's only 24 now and can't walk.

I know a 60 year old that manages fine with MS...she still lives alone at home and only has limited mobility issues.

MS is such a random, unforgiving disease....it sucks.

Another lesser known disease is Transverse Myelitis... Picture yourself playing golf and riding bicycles in a race one day.....then the next day wake up in the hospital totally paralyzed forever.

I've seen that **** at the nursing home too.

People should be thankful they never have to cope with such crap. I thank God every day I can walk without falling or needing someone to wipe my ass..... Try being 24 and needing your ass wiped every day.

MS is not a disease to be throwing around vaguely..... It's a very serious condition. I've seen the effects from it in person.

January 31, 2013

After wading through all of the responses, I now give my own. For the record, my wife and I are both older than you. So we can relate to your concerns about this being a symptom of a disease that is due to old age.

First, off topic about doctors. They are mostly good people and really concerned about their patients. Sorry, the myth is that they all sit there driving their Mercedes and playing golf. It irritates me that we seem to think it is okay to pick on the rich and the doctors because they have succeeded where we have not. And having had a couple of doctors who have been good at what they do, my experiences show me how the myth is a myth. And having a wife with fibromyalgia who has visited many, many doctors with me in tow, I can say that most doctors do care and are people like you and I.

Perfect? No. But good yes. Having said that, they all have their own personalities and some are more friendly than others. Ironically, quite a few good ones are actually less personable. Some of the bad ones are really charismatic so their patients love them even if they stumble at their jobs. With a wife who is an RN and is very critical of doctors, I know her opinion mirrors my own.

There that is out of my system.

FL, so sorry for your fatigue. Not knowing what you may have is sometimes worse than knowing what you have even if it isn't a good diagnosis. As I said, my wife has fibromyalgia. It has been an issue for us in our marriage. But it is not fatigue that is her main problem. It is pain. Unless you have alot of pain now and then or chronic pain throughout you joints and muscles, then I would rule out fibromyalbia. My wife complains more about pain than about fatigue. She rarely takes naps unless she cannot sleep at night.

This brings up a point. How DO you sleep at night? That may be something to look into. Sleep apnea can cause restless sleep which can cause fatigue during the day.

As for Armour, I did alot of research seven years ago (when I came here) and my wife also has thyroid issues. She still has hers, but it is much much better. She used to take just synthroid but still had problems even though the numbers showed her to be normal. My research led me to Armour also, but her doctor at the time (and still mine) did not want to use it due to possible side effects. And this is a man who was willing to try many meds for her because he knew she did her research and wasn't simply begging for meds. He simply did not feel that the benefits outweighed the risks. Instead he put her on Cytomel (a synthetic version of Armour) . She still takes synthroid as it gives her the T4 she needs, but the Cytomel gives her the T3 since her body doesn't convert the T4 properly. And we also found out that the numbers when showing her in the normal range are not normal for her. If she doesn't take Cytomel but takes Synthroid, she doesn't feel right.

Don't rule out thyroid completely. Get a doctor who will try Cytomel and Synthroid together. Find out your numbers and determine if normal is really normal for you.

As for all of the other diseases, I can't say. I can say that some meds can cause fatigue. Depression can cause fatigue. And numerous diseases can cause fatigue. One of the biggest reasons why doctors cannot diagnose a disease based on fatigue is simply because so many diseases, syndromes, and conditions have disease as a symptom. If you have any other symptom, then this would help quite a bit. I could rule out a number of the diseases that you listed by asking a few questions. This would rule them out when it is discovered that you miss major symptoms of each, but not being a doctor or seeing you in person, I am not sure I am the one to ask. My wife could do it. (That is why I married her, so I have my own personal medical professional. And she IS good at her job. )

As for googling diseases, doctors don't care if the patient does it to learn and not to critique the doctor. My doctor knows my wife is a nurse. He knows I like to research, but he knows that when I come in, I bring my info as a starting point. I respect his judgment and will go with his conclusions. Second guessing the doctor is like second guessing anyone who has been trained in a profession. If you gain a small amount of knowledge without knowing all of the details or possibilities involved, then you do not really understand what you think you know. So do your research but when you bring the information to the doctor, then do so respecting their education and experience.

Also, information on the internet can be notoriously unreliable as many websites sell cures. Then of course, they bias their "facts" to fit their cure. You must be careful. There are many good sites, but there are many sites that try to scare you into buying their product. WebMD, Mayo, and CDC have good sites.

The other big problem with googling diseases is for some (not me) the tendency is to choose the worst case scenario. Don't assume the worst because most of the time it is not. We tend to see our symptom and ignore the ones that indicate how we don't have the disease that scares us. MS has other symptoms that don't fit your case, but when you dwell on MS (as an example), then you may start noticing behaviors and feelings that make you think they fit the symptoms. This is not a true hypochondriac, but many of us tend this way. THAT is another big reason why doctors don't like people that google.

I truly wish you the best and a speedy recovery back to "normal." Please keep us (me) updated. I am now curious and concerned. My guess is that this is something simple, but one never knows until the diagnosis is confirmed.

Edited January 31, 2013 by JamesM

January 31, 2013

I doubt this will help you much OP, but I keep a lot of different lighting options in my house. Dim-able lights that do 40w/60/100, under shades that changes it to a nice soft glow and exposed.

About 4 months ago, I got this 85w cfl to go in my living room ceiling light. It puts out the equivalent of a 350w incandescent light bulb. It lights up the whole room like the sun was shinning down on me. I really like it. I feel a lot more energetic being in the light.

Amazon.com: Full Spectrum Light Bulb - ALZO 85 watt CFL 5500K: Camera & Photo

Edited January 31, 2013 by Imported

January 31, 2013

So basically you were tired all the time and decided you were out of shape?

See, this is what most people should assume. But no, rather than being out of shape, it must be MS. Jeez.

our physical needs can change during our 40s. Ive always been in very good shape, run, weights , daily. But then I just started feeling too tired for the to the wall work out and I stopped. Then, I was even more fatigued. So, now it's shorter workouts daily and that's where I get my energy from.

February 1, 2013

Thank you so much everyone for the fantastic input! I really, really appreciate it! You guys are SO WONDERFUL. You are by far the best medicine.

I saw two doctors today, the first wouldn't give me Armour Thyroid medicine.

But the second will, pending blood tests that come in tomorrow.

I am also still waiting on other blood tests from last week that checked my female hormones, and my auto immune functioning (to see if my body is attacking itself ? It was called an AMA or ANA test I think. The doctor said I better hope I don't have something like that, one of which is called connective tissue disorder or something like that, the other Lupus, the other, Rhematoid arthritis type stuff? I can't recall).

I slept 10 hours last night, with a 2 hour nap mid day, and still this evening, I almost fell asleep in the parking lot at the grocery store. I've never experienced anything this weird in my life, this fatigue. The panic and anxiety ensues when I think "Oh my God! How can I hold a job with this going on?!?!". So the searching for a job part, is what triggers me to feel extra anxious about the random fatigue.

I will write more as I get more blood tests in. Friends and family have suggested other doctors in the area who are more holistically oriented, and one person who does reflexology. I guess every little bit could help.

Oh, I had a sugar test that shows 3 months worth of sugar, the score was 5.6, and the doctor said that is 'Pre-Diabetic'. She said I need to eat protein with every meal, especially in the morning, to slow the absorbtion of carbs into my blood stream. I am not especially overweight, I have about 20 pounds to lose, and I'm tall (5'8") so 20 lbs doesn't seem like a bunch on my frame. Still I wonder if an excess 20 lbs can push me into pre-diabetic status.

It is also suggested that I may have adrenal fatigue, from 16 years in a bad marriage and now raising kids as a single parent.

One doctor thinks I have been in a 'fight or flight' type response throughout the bad marriage, and it's finally caught up to me. I agree I was 'fight or flight' for 16 years, but I'd like to think it's reversible now it's over. I hope the adrenal fatigue is not permanent, but I have no idea. That is a very depressing thought, permanent damage to my adrenal glands due to years in a f*cked up marriage. That makes me nauseous right there.

Thanks again everyone, I will keep you posted. Thanks for your concern. And feel free to discuss whatever on this thread. I'd serve cheese crackers and wine if I could! You guys rock.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Forever Learning

February 1, 2013

My guess would be thyroid plus perimenopause. The symptoms are nearly identical. Memory loss is one. You may need a simple adjustment of your thyroid meds. See an endocrinologist and not a GP. All of your hormones work together and when one is off it seems to affect all the others.

I take Naturethroid instead of Armour. I had taken Armour for years and then they changed it and a lot of us switched over. You can take Cytomel with Synthroid, as someone mentioned previously. Switching meds might cause you problems but you could give it a month on Armour to see how you feel.

B12 and ferritin levels also need to be checked when you are hypo. I take extra B12 from Trader Joe's.

February 2, 2013

Emilia, I have Lupus, Fibromyalgia and Sjorgens, all in all a cocktail of diseases that leave me knackered and in pain for most of the time. It took years for a diagnosis, numerous tests and finally an ANA test that showed Lupus, a lip biopsy that showed Sjorgens and Fibromyalgia based upon trigger points and extreme fatigue. I understand the needing to have a firm diagnosis, my view was always, if I don't know what it is then how can I fight it.

If you have extreme fatigue then learn to rest when your body tells you that you need to, but do gentle exercise when you can,even if you don't feel like it. I would stop trying to self diagnose, the internet as useful as it is, can make a person believe they have a whole raft of ilnesses when they might not and may just need some adjusments to their diet or lifestyle, others not so and may need medication. Either way, a full blood test should show if you have an autoimmune disease. If you do have Lupus, believe me you will know it! But it is manageable.

Good luck, I hope it proves to be perimenopause, I remember going through hell during this stage. Your blood sugars of 5.2 are not bad and not a cause for concern, I have type 2 and often veer between lows of 1.2 due to carb dumping and stay around 7.6 even with meds. Pre diabetes can be controlled by diet, my GP doesn't medicate unless this has been tried and levels are arounf the 8 mark.

February 3, 2013

Thanks Fit Chick and Seren (and everyone, again), for the very helpful input.

I have realized, figuring out what is causing my fatigue may take a while to unravel.

Realizing that, has helped me calm down, because there's not much I can do, but make some changes and see what effect it has over the next weeks and months.

*****************************************

My new favorite website, a lifesaver for me so far:

Thyroid Mistreatment, Hypothyroidism Scandals, and Thyroid Treatment Problems | Stop The Thyroid Madness?

******************************************

Here's what I've done so far:

- Found a doctor who prescribed me Armour Thyroid medication, I will get that tomorrow and start taking it.

- I have completely altered my diet to rule out food allergies. I never used any artificial sweetners (gave me headaches), but now I have stopped all sugar and cut way down on wheat (will cut it out entirely real soon).

- Eliminated all processed foods and junk foods

- I am eating macrobiotically to some degree, eating whole vegetables, fruits, and lean protein, mostly chicken. Most foods are organic.

- Using almost no salt.

- Avoiding dairy (drinking almond and coconut milk instead, made of almonds, not dairy).

- Taking pro-biotics in capsule form

-Taking a multi-vitamin, take iron every other day

-Taking a supplement to help with menopause (includes Isoflavoids, Soy and Black Cohosh)

- Tumeric, ginger, bilberry, green tea extract, cranberry extract, calcium, magnesium, potassium, vitamin D, vitamin C, Omega 3/6/9 blend.

- Not taking any anti-depressants (I was taking a low dose of Celexa, stopped that) to be sure that wasn't giving me fatigue

- Taking Benadryl before bed to knock me out and make sure I am staying alseep all night

- Exercising on the treadmill or stationary bike 30 minutes EVERY DAY, mostly to ENERGIZE myself via after effects of exercise

- Stretching and meditating

- Praying to God for the fatigue to go away

- Trying to not get stressed as much when the kids are difficult and squabbling. Prayed for help with that as well (and help in not getting as stressed about it).

I am trying to keep the stress down so that my adrenal glands can be less stressed.

****************************************

That 'StopTheThyroidMadness' website that is truly amazing regarding switching from Syntroid to Armour.

I didn't know, but not only does Armour have T3, it has T2 and T1 and Calcitonin apparently as well.

The reformulation of Armour in 2010 with a cellulose binding agent requires the tablet be crushed (and mixed with honey if desired, to get it down) for better absorption in the body.

Also to be taken on an empty stomach. Also, 1/2 dose early in day, 1/2 dose mid-day.

I didn't know these things, even when taking Synthroid (take on an empty stomach). So this is a great website 'find' for me.

Here's more info on the adrenal piece of the puzzle (and it's a big puzzle)

How Adrenals Can Wreak Havoc | Stop The Thyroid Madness?

February 3, 2013

I neglected to mention I am also taking a multi B vitamin supplement, along with a B12 gummy vitamin for when I have to go somewhere and I MUST be awake. I'm also drinking detox teas and women's energy tea, both by Yogi brand. I'm also drinking lots of water.

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