fortyninethousand322 Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 If I was a psychologist, I would jump all over what you just said. So many red flags. Not their equal? Stressful just interacting with women? "A" game? You're scared to death of women. Now you have to ask yourself...WHY? Because you WANT SOMETHING that they've got...and because of this they hold POWER over you. Of course, this is all in your head. In reality, they have nothing that you need that you couldn't get from someone else and therefore they have no power over you. All I know, is that I've never found any interaction with a woman to be easy (with the exception of the two female friends I have and friends' wives or girlfriends). Women always seem to find an excuse or some reason not to be around me. There has to be a reason for that, and I'm guessing that reason isn't just in my head... 1
SJC2008 Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 If I was a psychologist, I would jump all over what you just said. So many red flags. Not their equal? Stressful just interacting with women? "A" game? You're scared to death of women. Now you have to ask yourself...WHY? Because you WANT SOMETHING that they've got...and because of this they hold POWER over you. Of course, this is all in your head. In reality, they have nothing that you need that you couldn't get from someone else and therefore they have no power over you. I feel the same way about what he said but your reason (may or may not apply to him) couldn't be more wrong for me. Ever stare a kid in the eyes? Most will hold eye contact longer than MANY adults before looking away. Why is this? People are born "normal" and "confident". We not born feeling inferior to men/women. I could never do anything right in my mothers eyes when I was a kid. She wasn't the textbook definition of mean but was VERY unaffectionate and like I said I could never please her. So let's take a stab in the dark and try to figure out why sjc2008 struggles with women. It aint because they have something I want and hold power over me I can tell you that!
somedude81 Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 I feel the same way about what he said but your reason (may or may not apply to him) couldn't be more wrong for me. Ever stare a kid in the eyes? Most will hold eye contact longer than MANY adults before looking away. Why is this? People are born "normal" and "confident". We not born feeling inferior to men/women. I could never do anything right in my mothers eyes when I was a kid. She wasn't the textbook definition of mean but was VERY unaffectionate and like I said I could never please her. So let's take a stab in the dark and try to figure out why sjc2008 struggles with women. It aint because they have something I want and hold power over me I can tell you that! Yup fear of women is learned. We each have our own causes. It certainly isn't natural. 1
KungFuJoe Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 I feel the same way about what he said but your reason (may or may not apply to him) couldn't be more wrong for me. Ever stare a kid in the eyes? Most will hold eye contact longer than MANY adults before looking away. Why is this? People are born "normal" and "confident". We not born feeling inferior to men/women. I could never do anything right in my mothers eyes when I was a kid. She wasn't the textbook definition of mean but was VERY unaffectionate and like I said I could never please her. So let's take a stab in the dark and try to figure out why sjc2008 struggles with women. It aint because they have something I want and hold power over me I can tell you that! But don't you see...you are actually a prime candidate for what I'm talking about. You never got the affection you needed from your mom. Because of this, you see women as both your romantic partner AND your mom. You're looking for double the affection from these women who you want to take the place of your mom. Look...I know this might sound ridiculous to you...but just bear with me for a second. Look up madonna/whore complex. It's VERY common for men who had bad relationships with their mothers to grow up and have issues making romantic connections. *I* went through it. I think you just admitted the same. It might not be fear...I might be wrong about that (I'm still trying to figure all this stuff out myself)...but it's NOT natural. We weren't born this way. We were MADE this way. So we just gotta somehow undo what was done.
KungFuJoe Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 All I know, is that I've never found any interaction with a woman to be easy (with the exception of the two female friends I have and friends' wives or girlfriends). Women always seem to find an excuse or some reason not to be around me. There has to be a reason for that, and I'm guessing that reason isn't just in my head... How was your relationship with your mom?
fortyninethousand322 Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 How was your relationship with your mom? Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. Probably would have been better if she had divorced my dad rather than stay married to him, I think their bad relationship kind of leaked out into other parts of the family dynamic.
TheFinalWord Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 There's should be a TheWholigan Corner forum on LS Great blog. 1
KungFuJoe Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. Probably would have been better if she had divorced my dad rather than stay married to him, I think their bad relationship kind of leaked out into other parts of the family dynamic. I actually think this warrants a thread of its own, but I'll probably save that for another time. But I have to say...95% of the guys I know (both online and real friends) who have relationship problems...have mother issues. My former best friend for high school. We were friends up until recently. He always hated his mother. He fully admits he hates her. He's my age...38. NEVER had a gf. Not ONE. He claims he's unable to feel emotion but I do recall him crying like a baby when a mutual friend of ours committed suicide years back. Another real good friend of mine. Same age as me again. Doesn't have a problem getting dates...but he's had ONE gf his entire life. ONE. And he's not a player. He wants to get married, have kids, the whole nine. BUT, he lived at home until he was 36 years old. His relationship with his mother isn't strained, but it's pretty obvious that she babied him endlessly and he hasn't been able to cut the cord. He still goes home to his parent's house and his mom cooks his dinner. He still has a bunch of his stuff in his old room because he's there so often. The whole mother/son dynamic is HUGE when it comes to how you end up handling romantic relationships when you get older. I mean, it makes sense, right? What woman do you interact with for most of your developing life? Your MOTHER. She is THE example you have for a woman. Everything you know is based on how you perceive her.
tbf Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Perhaps. But it's not just "a few" and they were quite different women. I've never had an interaction with a woman and felt like "gee, I think she looks forward to spending time with me" or "gee, I think she likes me". One time I thought that had happened, but I was wrong. In contrast, I have met many women who looked for an escape route as soon as I tried speaking with them, or gave me curt answers, or generally appeared annoyed that I was in their presence. It's going to take an awful lot for me to trust that any woman would want to date me. I've seen how girls interact with guys they like or are interested in. There's a certain "je ne sais quoi" that goes on. But you can see it. I've never experienced that.Are you any different on and offline? In order to have a positive interaction, it can't always be dead serious where it feels like a battle rather than a discussion. Try some banter if you have the need to argue. It's rare that women of any level of self-esteem, will date men who are always putting them down or need to "win" every discussion.
SJC2008 Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 But don't you see...you are actually a prime candidate for what I'm talking about. You never got the affection you needed from your mom. Because of this, you see women as both your romantic partner AND your mom. You're looking for double the affection from these women who you want to take the place of your mom. Look...I know this might sound ridiculous to you...but just bear with me for a second. Look up madonna/whore complex. It's VERY common for men who had bad relationships with their mothers to grow up and have issues making romantic connections. *I* went through it. I think you just admitted the same. It might not be fear...I might be wrong about that (I'm still trying to figure all this stuff out myself)...but it's NOT natural. We weren't born this way. We were MADE this way. So we just gotta somehow undo what was done. I'm a very self aware person and you'd think that'd help but it hasn't helped me. I don't need a shrink to tell me I'm chasing a mother and not a GF, I already know. I don't need a shrink to tell me my parents R layed the ground work for what a norm R is and that's why I'm drawn to controlling/domineering women, I already know. The problem is how do you change this? It's literally changing your subconscious and how easy is that? What am I supposed to do? Say I'm worthy of a woman 1000 times before I go to bed? It doesn't work that way. As pessimistic as it sounds I think I'm screwed. I have a relative who is on his 4th wife and she's unaffectionate just like his mom. If it was so easy to change it wouldn't breach each generation. My dad has 3 brothers, they ALL married controlling, unaffectionate women. 1
pbjbear Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Women aren't kind to anyone unless they are using them so fear is justified. Hah I feel the same about men, I get called kind alot...Im prob TOO kind sometimes in real life.
TouchedByViolet Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 I don't have a fear of women and don't see that as the problem. I am simply not that good at dating, and attracting women. It would be like telling someone who is failing at math to not be scared of it and he will do fine in algebra. There is more than simple fear going on. As far as all this mother/son relationship stuff, it varies A LOT. Too many generalities in this thread. I personally have a poor relationship with my mom but know I will be an awesome husband and father one day. If anything I know exactly what I don't want and have a pretty good idea of what type of woman I want in my life. No bitches, psychos, angry or controlling women. One of my good family friends had a terrible mother too and married a women who is the complete opposite. They have been happily married for 30+ years. 1
Bristolius Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Hah I feel the same about men, I get called kind alot...Im prob TOO kind sometimes in real life. I'm especially afraid of kind women because they might be hiding their angry contempt for men.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 I used to "always get rejected" too. It was mostly because I was slumped. I had no sense of style, my posture reflected that I thought poorly of myself, I was afraid of being bold with women, never touched them, completely forgetting that women are people and they get nervous too, told myself I would always get rejected, thought I was unattractive etc. I did all those things. I also got rejected a lot too. At one point, a lot - and sometimes harshly. I never let it get the best of me. It was still fun, because I knew not all girls were like that - and there were bound to be some I liked who also found me attractive. In general this is a fantastic and fairly comprehensive post. I don't think you really went into enough depth regarding rejection. Nearly everyone fears being rejected and not just in dating. Women probably fear rejection twice what men do... it's just less obvious for them in dating. There are only a couple of ways to get over rejection paralysis. One is to build your self esteem to a point where you can handle it. That isn't possible for many and it can take years, but this is the best route. Another option which I find men use very frequently is to objectify and downgrade women in your own thinking. This is a very common tactic, but it's important to not get stuck in this kind of thinking as it creates it's own problems within relationships. 1
ChessPieceFace Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 If you do not break the touch barrier' date=' you will never sleep with a girl.[/quote'] Really easy to tell someone "what they'll never do" over the internet. Hey didn't Stephen Hawking have various women? How'd he break the "touch barrier"? Oh wait, you're wrong.
Bristolius Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 In general this is a fantastic and fairly comprehensive post. I don't think you really went into enough depth regarding rejection. Nearly everyone fears being rejected and not just in dating. Women probably fear rejection twice what men do... it's just less obvious for them in dating. There are only a couple of ways to get over rejection paralysis. One is to build your self esteem to a point where you can handle it. That isn't possible for many and it can take years, but this is the best route. Another option which I find men use very frequently is to objectify and downgrade women in your own thinking. This is a very common tactic, but it's important to not get stuck in this kind of thinking as it creates it's own problems within relationships. Nice distinction. The idea that, "she's a lesbian/ her loss" etc. is weak. I'm surprised it works for so many men. It's primitive. The self esteem route is OK but vague. What about trying to be as accurate as possible? Skip the outré hypotheses using natural selection and stick to the facts. Then you're left with things like. "She's not interested in me. I'll never know why." And "she was rude. But I wasn't. I did nothing wrong."
Emilia Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 the DP in your name stands for double penetration? I've been wondering about this also glad someone has finally asked
AlexDP Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 I've been wondering about this also glad someone has finally asked Del Piero. Sick minds. 1
Emilia Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 They're women. If you are sick then they can pretend their sickness is not so bad. Don't feel bad. You might develop a sense of humour one day 1
AlexDP Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 They're women. If you are sick then they can pretend their sickness is not so bad. You put the j in jaded. 1
Author ThaWholigan Posted January 29, 2013 Author Posted January 29, 2013 Another real good friend of mine. Same age as me again. Doesn't have a problem getting dates...but he's had ONE gf his entire life. ONE. And he's not a player. He wants to get married, have kids, the whole nine. BUT, he lived at home until he was 36 years old. His relationship with his mother isn't strained, but it's pretty obvious that she babied him endlessly and he hasn't been able to cut the cord. He still goes home to his parent's house and his mom cooks his dinner. He still has a bunch of his stuff in his old room because he's there so often. At the bold: Having this problem now .
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Nice distinction. The idea that, "she's a lesbian/ her loss" etc. is weak. I'm surprised it works for so many men. It's primitive. The self esteem route is OK but vague. What about trying to be as accurate as possible? Skip the outré hypotheses using natural selection and stick to the facts. Then you're left with things like. "She's not interested in me. I'll never know why." And "she was rude. But I wasn't. I did nothing wrong." The question is... how do you ensure that rejection doesn't destroy your confidence? I'm smart, good looking, and successful... 5 or 6 rejections in a row still tend to wear me down... partly because I expect a lot better results from myself. The best approach is just to be realistic and understand that there's absolutely nobody who bats a 1.000 You look at baseball and you see the best players in the world still fail at a 66% rate. Women are the same way - no matter how awesome you may be, you're still going to fail at a huge clip because they're very very very picky Ah yes... but when the failures outweigh the wins... how do you keep that from hurting you?
Author ThaWholigan Posted January 29, 2013 Author Posted January 29, 2013 The question is... how do you ensure that rejection doesn't destroy your confidence? I'm smart, good looking, and successful... 5 or 6 rejections in a row still tend to wear me down... partly because I expect a lot better results from myself. Ah yes... but when the failures outweigh the wins... how do you keep that from hurting you? Keep an even keel IMO. It helps to be emotionally aware - but also to learn how to detach occasionally. Being autistic, detachment is a specialty of mine . But detachment doesn't come at the price of not knowing my emotions or even not feeling them. But I don't "become" my emotions. I accept that feeling and move on. Sometimes I step outside of my emotions and just observe them in my mind - sometimes I secretly amuse myself with my thoughts.....even my sad/angry/negative thoughts. Is that weird?
Bristolius Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 The question is... how do you ensure that rejection doesn't destroy your confidence? I'm smart, good looking, and successful... 5 or 6 rejections in a row still tend to wear me down... partly because I expect a lot better results from myself. Ah yes... but when the failures outweigh the wins... how do you keep that from hurting you? If are always respectful, stick to the facts, and avoid speculating, you can't build up a negative review of yourself, just a bunch of unconnected and unexplained behavior. Don't buy into the gamblers fallacy. Every interaction with a different woman resets the odds. 1
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Keep an even keel IMO. It helps to be emotionally aware - but also to learn how to detach occasionally. Being autistic, detachment is a specialty of mine . But detachment doesn't come at the price of not knowing my emotions or even not feeling them. But I don't "become" my emotions. I accept that feeling and move on. Sometimes I step outside of my emotions and just observe them in my mind - sometimes I secretly amuse myself with my thoughts.....even my sad/angry/negative thoughts. Is that weird? No I don't think it's weird. Sometimes I think it's the next step of human evolution. Emotional detachment has a heavy price that comes with it. Being numb to rejection takes you down a different path. Apathy can be great in helping you deal with dating woes.... but it really holds you back within a relationship. Here is the issue as I see it. While millions of guys are out there striving to be the worlds greatest PUA... actually achieving it leaves you empty. The skills required for that don't translate well into long term relationships.
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