Do involuntary celibate men become violent or suicidal

[footballfan10]

I honestly don't think Holmes is crazy at all...I just think he spent his whole life being a goody good meek nerdy Christian boy (thats how literally everyone described him as before the attack) only to be rejected by chick after chick etc (thus developing anger and hostility for society) and than later became an athiest and decided to go down in infamy as a psycho. He's just a mixture of butthurt niceguyism and psychopathy and nihilism.

 

You don't have to be crazy to be a psycho murderer...Sometimes all it takes is being a butthurt angry bitch trying to take it out on the world. Some people just want to go down as psychos...Nothing you can do about it.

 

Lanza I think was actually crazy through

Edited March 28, 2013 by footballfan10

[man_in_the_box]

Both perpetrators of the Columbine massacre in '99 were lamenting their lack of success with women in their diaries the years before the tragedy.

 

But then again the large majority of teenage boys were awkward, hormone pumping, shy kids in their teenage years. Yet only a very small amount of them go on violent rampages. So how does it make sense to connect something shared by a large fraction of teenage boys (no success with girls yet) to something only a small fraction belongs to (rampage killers). It makes as much sense as those people who claim that violent video games turn kids into murder machines. It might be true for a few examples but it completely loses its foundation when compared with the overwhelming majority of people who are unaffected by them.

[footballfan10]

Both perpetrators of the Columbine massacre in '99 were lamenting their lack of success with women in their diaries the years before the tragedy.

 

But then again the large majority of teenage boys were awkward, hormone pumping, shy kids in their teenage years. Yet only a very small amount of them go on violent rampages. So how does it make sense to connect something shared by a large fraction of teenage boys (no success with girls yet) to something only a small fraction belongs to (rampage killers). It makes as much sense as those people who claim that violent video games turn kids into murder machines. It might be true for a few examples but it completely loses its foundation when compared with the overwhelming majority of people who are unaffected by them.

 

Yea same with Virginia Tech (rejected by many chicks and also extremely insecure with himself and shy) and also Laughner from Tuscon.

[Radu]

I don't think it was just lack of sex, some of the answers here are quite dissapointing and show how some users see men as simple animals.

It's not the lack of sex ppl, it's the lack of intimacy and affection that helps create this.

Helps being key here, as just the lack of this cannot make you all of the sudden pull out a gun and go on a killing spree.

 

It's not her saying 'no, i have other plans, sorry' but her saying this and dismissing you like you are filth, making fun of you in public, hitting your ego again and again and again.

It's the lack of intimacy that comes as a result of the above.

You know how pathetic it can get ladies ?

You are sitting on the bus in a cramped place near a girl and you realise that warmth from a girl/woman is different from warmth of another human being.

When you look back at that and realise that was the highlight of your entire damn in terms of interactions with opposite sex.

I was out of college when this happened, so ... over 23.

 

It's the lack of affection and interaction that hurts, not the sex ... you get used to the lack of sex.

 

Males traditionally act out emotions in violence because they are socialized to ignore/suppress/compartmentalize other emotions, like grief, sadness, loneliness, etc. Violence is a societally 'approved' outlet for males. Witness the activities on any schoolyard on up to the prison populations in adult prisons. Predominantly, it is males who commit acts of violence. It follows that a male who finds no other 'approved' outlet for his emotions surrounding incel would act out in an 'approved' manner.

 

This dynamic is difficult for women to understand in general because they simply don't have the proper social reference point, the same as it is hard for men to identify with aspects of women's lives. We'll never 'get it'.

Spot on.

I don't think the vast majority of women will ever get this, nor will they ever get how it's like to be full of hormones in your teens and get laughed at.

Untill they have a son who does have problems of this kind, in which case they will immediately start being believers.

 

 

Personally, I've yet to hear a woman complain, even once about being 'involuntarily celibate'. I'll take that back. One MW did directly make this complaint to me, right before she cornered me on the couch. She could easily have had sex with any male that particular night, but selected one who still respected her marriage. I imagine she found her satisfaction elsewhere. That's simply how easy it is for a woman to achieve something which 'involuntarily celibate' men struggle with. Yes, women talk about wanting a 'complete' relationship/encounter. Men, including involuntarily celibate men, talk about that too. The fact remains that women will never be in the exact same sexual position as an incel male so, while they might feel the term to be worthless to them, it has value to those men who feel that way so is valid for them, as are their feelings surrounding it.

 

When I experience the actions like those of the MW in my example, and the lack of empathy I see from women for men's issues, I pronounce myself happy to be unmarried and celibate. Good riddance.

And this is one of my demons too.

I take solace in other things, i'm very happy i'm not angry about this anymore or just plain angry.

 

I was one of the incel guys, it's not an easy place to be in.

18-24 i was incel and it was not easy at the age where you're hormones are raging, and then 3yrs ago for 6months ... that was a nasty little reminder of how bad it was.

There are some manuals out there for this kind of stuff, but never tell a woman you are trying to improve yourself like this.

Not only will you come out as a loser and she will lose all her respect for you, but it will spread and you will become a social pariah, contaminating that social circle.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Radu

[camillalev]

Um, no. Dalai lama.

[somedude81]

Um, no. Dalai lama.

I never heard that the Dalai lama was constantly rejected by women.

[camillalev]

But thats the thing...Women are the ones who control who has sex with who...Just like men (usually) control the business world....women have complete reigns over the sexual world and that's how it will always be...where as women are now making huge gains in what was formally the domain of men (thanks to feminism/womens empowerment). Women are keeping their old powers and gaining new ones thanks to feminism. Men have to change/fix themselves to fit a womens needs/desires in a mate....not the other way around. Yet women now are taking some of the powers that traditionally belonged to men.

 

Good article on the stupidity of modern feminism. Women aren't disadvantaged at all in modern society...In fact they HAVE the advantage over men. Men are the ones at a disadvantage nowadays.

 

"Why Modern Feminism is Illogical, Unnecessary, and Evil"

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200908/why-modern-feminism-is-illogical-unnecessary-and-evil

 

Don't agree on the "evil" part but it's definitely illogical and unnecessary

 

Like I/the OP have said...No-one is saying that women should be forced to sleep with people they don't want to (and they also SHOULDN'T get equal pay or any special treatment in the work place unless they can perform aswell as men can)....But that doesn't mean there aren't going to be some men who react very badly to that and don't accept it. And with the easy access to guns in this society, well it could potentially be a big problem. These are just the facts....take it or leave it. Women have the upper hand (generally) in today's society.

 

Uh, what the f*ck? You clearly have no idea what feminism is really about. I'm sure your idea of a feminist is of someone who has a field day burning bras, refusing to shave, and signing petitions to have men castrated. You think modern feminism is bad/unnecessary? Why don't you educate yourself. Thirty years after women became 50% of college graduates, women only account for 20% of todays leadership positions. You're being incredibly ignorant if you believe women 'have the upper hand' in todays world. As far as the 'sexual world' goes, women may have control in that they can say yes and no to suitor, but how often do those lines get crossed. When it does, it's often a tooth and nail fight to get the perpetrators anything more than a slap on the wrist and community service. Not to mention the news outlets that often express sympathy for the perpetrators, like CNN calling stubenville rapists as 'bright young men with promising futures.'

 

If you need any proof that feminism needs to exist, try googling the atrocious things that happen to women in india, the middle east and other parts of the world.

 

Are you so unhappy with your own life that you feel you have to lash out at a movement which looks to benefit half of the worlds population?

[camillalev]

I never heard that the Dalai lama was constantly rejected by women.

 

LOL. I initially read the thread as voluntary.

 

Regardless I think the basis for this thread is ridiculous.

[camillalev]

Personally, I've yet to hear a woman complain, even once about being 'involuntarily celibate'. I'll take that back. One MW did directly make this complaint to me, right before she cornered me on the couch. She could easily have had sex with any male that particular night, but selected one who still respected her marriage. I imagine she found her satisfaction elsewhere. That's simply how easy it is for a woman to achieve something which 'involuntarily celibate' men struggle with. Yes, women talk about wanting a 'complete' relationship/encounter. Men, including involuntarily celibate men, talk about that too. The fact remains that women will never be in the exact same sexual position as an incel male so, while they might feel the term to be worthless to them, it has value to those men who feel that way so is valid for them, as are their feelings surrounding it.

 

I think this comes from the fact that usually an orgasm is guaranteed for men and it's not for a woman. From what I hear from men, being inside a woman feels amazing, while for a woman, having a penis in there for the most part isn't going to do much. There's a reason us women aren't moaning in ecstasy every time we insert a tampon. Also, as a woman you literally have to let someone inside your body to have sex, which a lot of women consider intimate. I think if men were born with a vibrating.. thing at the base of their di/ck that would stimulate the cli/t, and the likely hood of an orgasm were significantly higher, the sex game would be much different.

[footballfan10]

Uh, what the f*ck? You clearly have no idea what feminism is really about. I'm sure your idea of a feminist is of someone who has a field day burning bras, refusing to shave, and signing petitions to have men castrated. You think modern feminism is bad/unnecessary? Why don't you educate yourself. Thirty years after women became 50% of college graduates, women only account for 20% of todays leadership positions. You're being incredibly ignorant if you believe women 'have the upper hand' in todays world. As far as the 'sexual world' goes, women may have control in that they can say yes and no to suitor, but how often do those lines get crossed. When it does, it's often a tooth and nail fight to get the perpetrators anything more than a slap on the wrist and community service. Not to mention the news outlets that often express sympathy for the perpetrators, like CNN calling stubenville rapists as 'bright young men with promising futures.'

 

If you need any proof that feminism needs to exist, try googling the atrocious things that happen to women in india, the middle east and other parts of the world.

 

Are you so unhappy with your own life that you feel you have to lash out at a movement which looks to benefit half of the worlds population?

 

They (women) have the upperhand in the 2 most important biological facets of live...Reproduction and longevity. And thats precisely why men commit almost all crime (other than testosterone and other cultural factors) men are MUCH more desperate in terms of the reproductive game thus leading them to take more risks/break the rules be anti social etc...

 

Atrocious things happen to people of every gender/race/ethnicity all over the world etc. Of course it is tragic when something happens to a women (and as far as I'm concerned 1st degree rape should be life in prison) but what about the thousands of men shooting other men for no reason.

 

I'm very happy with my life and I don't hold any resentment towards women at all....In fact I consider them to literally the exact same standards as I do with men...Just stating the facts

[camillalev]

and as far as I'm concerned 1st degree rape should be life in prison

 

I'm glad we're in agreement.

 

 

They (women) have the upperhand in the 2 most important biological facets of live...Reproduction and longevity. And thats precisely why men commit almost all crime (other than testosterone and other cultural factors)

 

Is it 'precisely why' men commit crimes? I've never heard of a man say 'women live longer than men so i'm gonna go shoot someone up!' I'd attribute "other cultural factors" like economic climate, household environment, unique psychological temperament, etc, to violent crimes. More than the fact that a woman can live longer, or that the guy hasn't been laid in awhile.

 

men are MUCH more desperate in terms of the reproductive game thus leading them to take more risks/break the rules be anti social etc...

 

Are you sure you're not just talking about yourself?

 

 

Just stating the facts

 

These aren't 'facts'. Especially if you're getting your 'facts' from blog posts like the one you posted from psychology today. The author states, "the fact that women make less money than men cannot by itself be evidence that women are worse off than men, any more than the fact that men own fewer pairs of shoes than women cannot be evidence that men are worse off than women."

 

"The feminist insistence that women behave like men and make as much money as men do may not be the sole reason for women’s rising levels of dissatisfaction with life"

 

Hm, since when is financial independence and seeking career satisfaction 'behaving like a man.'

 

In reality many of the worlds CEOs, COOs, CFOs who are women are largely happily married, and attribute part of their ability to rise in the ranks to having husbands who are 100% supportive in their career and have no problem equally splitting responsibilities in running a home. They are much happier now than they would be if they were forced to do nothing except listlessly drink martinis all day, then die knowing they achieved nothing of their own.

Edited March 29, 2013 by camillalev

[footballfan10]

I'm glad we're in agreement.

 

Yes but only for a man who specifically goes out to rape...Not talking about some drunk frat party gone to far...Obviously that should be a serious offense as well but not life.

 

I also think the penalties for women who falsely report rape (and also women who commit paternity fraud) should be much stricter...And Jail time for paternity fraud is the women knowingly knew it wasn't the mans child and still lied to him about it.

 

Is it 'precisely why' men commit crimes? I've never heard of a man say 'women live longer than men so i'm gonna go shoot someone up!' I'd attribute "other cultural factors" like economic climate, household environment, unique psychological temperament, etc, to violent crimes. More than the fact that a woman can live longer, or that the guy hasn't been laid in awhile.

 

Stop misconstruing my words...I didn't say anything about men having shorter life spans means they commit more crimes....I said more men end up total reproductive losers in life.....so evolutionary speaking they are inclined to take many more risks/break social standards because it's alot more of a do or die situation for them in the mating game.

 

Women have a much lower reproductive variance than men do...Aka a larger total percentage of women reproduce in a more evenly distributed manor (2.2 kids etc) where as men have a much higher reproductive variance. (Some men have a huge amount of offspring while others have 0) so for the men that don't have any offspring....well they are going to be both desperate and very unhappy...And that's when anti-social behavior can ensue.

 

 

Are you sure you're not just talking about yourself?

 

 

I'm not talking about anyone personally. I'm talking about evolutionary biology.

 

 

 

These aren't 'facts'. Especially if you're getting your 'facts' from blog posts like the one you posted from psychology today.

 

When I said "facts" I meant in terms of why men commit so much more crime than women do. It's not because men are inherently more evil or whatnot. Their are chemical, evolutionary, environmental and cultural reasons for this.

 

Not to mention there are just as many (well maybe slightly less) female psychopaths as their are male. Female psychopaths may not commit violent crimes personally like male psychopaths do but they will be sexually attracted to them (almost every famous male murderer/criminal has had love interests....groupies) Neither gender is more moral in reality...That's just a bunch of nonsence that the man hating powers to be like to shove down everyone's throats.

 

The fact that murderers often get love letters/female attention indicates to me that the level of psychopathy is at a similar percentage across both genders. Of course the average woman shouldn't be blamed for the actions of a few lunatic Hybristophilliacs just as the average man shouldn't be blamed for the actions of a few sick Pedophiles...But lets not pretend (as the mainstream media always seems to try to) that only men are psychopaths just because they commit almost all violent crime. There are almost as many female psychopaths out there they just aren't as visible to the general public

 

 

"The feminist insistence that women behave like men and make as much money as men do may not be the sole reason for women’s rising levels of dissatisfaction with life"

 

Hm, since when is financial independence and seeking career satisfaction 'behaving like a man.'

 

In reality many of the worlds CEOs, COOs, CFOs who are women are largely happily married, and attribute part of their ability to rise in the ranks to having husbands who are 100% supportive in their career and have no problem equally splitting responsibilities in running a home. They are much happier now than they would be if they were forced to do nothing except listlessly drink martinis all day, then die knowing they achieved nothing of their own.

 

Well that's debatable.......

 

And I didn't say anything about women being less motivated/weaker/less intelligent. I said no such thing except, that generally women do not like to be dominant over their husbands/men and generally like their man to lead them and be dominant in the relationship. Doesn't mean there aren't exceptions or that women aren't as smart/motivated/driven as men...Just they usually prefer a submissive role

Edited March 29, 2013 by footballfan10

[footballfan10]

Another thing is some of these guys are losers in EVERY aspect of life (Columbine, VTech, Tuscon in particular) it's not just women they suck at....They've pretty much failed at everything and have nothing to offer.

 

The only 2 that I can think of that weren't total losers (besides in being social and getting chicks) were Sodini and Holmes....Holmes graduated with a 4.0 GPA from a good school in a Neuroscience degree which is impressive...He was obviously a loser socially+dating wise but academically he was still alot better than most people.

 

Sodini had a 150,000$+ year job which considering he was living just by himself makes him quite wealthy. He was of course a huge loser in getting women+socially but like Holmes he had a few other things going for him...namely his good job.

 

But yes involuntary celibacy is not an excuse for violence/murder to any sane person.

[Aslanbek]

Any incels out there that feel that they are quick to anger and may have violent thoughts?

 

I used to be that way as a young man. I actually wished some guy would mug me so I could be legally justified in beating him into steak tartare. I used to walk around at night in the hope that this would happen. It did - once. I did what I wanted to do.

 

I was happy and sad at the same time. I felt so good when I beat this guy bloody.......but later I was hit hard with remorse and cried for hours.

[todreaminblue]

I am a bti confused how taking someones life or multiple lives equals sexual satisfaction or multiple orgasms......i dont think the two should equate.......i dont think excuses should be made for someone who chooses to blow away a whole heap of people.....or takes their own life.......that is their choice to do so....mentally ill or not.......they make the choice......they are smart enough to load a weapon they are smart enough to know what they are doing is wrong...there are no reasons or excuses anyone can give for the deciding to take a human life...there is a necessity for firmer rules involving gun ownership and pyschological testing maybe.........deb

[ComeUpOutDaWahta]

It's called correlation vs. causality. Perhaps the traits that make someone suicidal or otherwise dangerous are also the traits that cause them to be single or otherwise alone.

 

You'll notice that many suicidal or murderous men tend to isolate themselves from everyone, not just women.

[Xinreeki]

If sex or a relationship is important enough to someone, soo important that they even view having sex or a relationship as the primary way they can validate their own existence, then, after a prolonged period without "success", that person may find themselves plummeting into a self-fulfilling prophecy syndrome spawned negative feedback loop.

 

As the longer a person remains involuntarily celibate / single, despite increasingly desperate attempts to rectify their situation, the more likely they may be to succumb to progressively illogical, obstinately-biased and possibly even deranged ways of thinking.

 

And ironically, but unfortunately for that person, the more desperate / bitter / mentally unstable they become, the less likely they are to find the relationship / sex they are so desperately seeking.

 

Which in turn will likely intensify their feelings of frustration and bitterness, again further impeding their chances of reaching their goal, which also sadly, they likely will deem more and more impossible to achieve.

 

In other words, if someone has a mindset primed to view sex or a relationship as an essential indispensable goal in life, then an original spell of bad luck in the dating field.. for them may well turn into a catch 22, negative feedback loop fueled, seemingly unsolvable conundrum I think.

 

And for some the ever building frustration that accompanies such an apparent "dead-end", "no-win scenario" may over time prove too much to bare, and may ultimately push their levels of despair so high that they feel suicide / violence is the only solution / option / response left.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Xinreeki