Do involuntary celibate men become violent or suicidal

January 28, 2013

I was celibate for 2.5 years (not my choice). Only think I was violent towards was my penis......

January 28, 2013

Utter nonsense.

And you are in the mental health field? Did you interview them personally? Did you study the histories of their lives? Then doctor aed, what's the basis of your diagnosis "mental illness" other than their final act? None.

You know nothing about anyone in their lives. You know nothing about them other than "they shot some people" and the rest you made up to "justify" conclusions with zero evidence.

It doesn't take a bizarre philosophy to lead someone eventually to murder. Unless you consider "the world is an unfair place" to be a bizarre philosophy. I'd say the OPPOSITE would be a bizarre philosophy. Also, everyone is mentally ill.

When someone does something that offends you, it's always easier to dismiss them as "crazy" than trying to understand them. That's the mentality that allows these things to keep happening. But I guess it's more important to lie to yourself and pretend you're morally and ethically superior, while you're living your comfortable life where you feel fulfilled and satisfied, that if everything you hold dear was taken away you'd still be incapable of such things.

Yes I'm in the mental field and no there is no medical diagnoses for those guys. It are psychological problems, not medical (psychiatric).

But let's have an quiz:

What is a more likely profile for those kind of men:

1) guy that has an extreme anger at everything and doesn't have a girlfriend, but has major issue's with himself.

2) normal guy, coming from a close and open family, has a good group of guyfriends, and didn't have sex for let's say 2 years.

January 28, 2013

Yes I'm in the mental field and no there is no medical diagnoses for those guys. It are psychological problems, not medical (psychiatric).

... first off, how on earth would you know that there wasn't a chemical imbalance of some kind. Man, just whatever.

What is a more likely profile for those kind of men:

1) guy that has an extreme anger at everything and doesn't have a girlfriend, but has major issue's with himself.

2) normal guy, coming from a close and open family, has a good group of guyfriends, and didn't have sex for let's say 2 years.

Let's have a quiz - what is more likely:

1.) You honestly listed 2 reasonable profiles for an honest debate

2.) You invented 2 completely biased profiles to "win" an argument

Sad.

Again, get everything you care about ripped away from your life piece by piece and get back to me about your pristine mental health. You know nothing about their "extreme anger" or what caused it. You dismiss human beings based on desperate or extreme actions and don't seem to understand how trauma (either extreme or ongoing) could lead otherwise healthy people to spiral downward into suicide or worse. I find it terrifying that you work in the mental health industry.

January 28, 2013

Involuntary celibacy is no excuse for violence, and women are not to blame for an "incel's" inability to maximize their attractiveness. I was able to do it, and I dealt with "celibacy" without a problem. Its hard sometimes, but lots of things are hard. Learn to deal with it effectively - blaming women for "being shallow" or whatever you blame them for is not going to help you.

March 27, 2013

Involuntary celibacy is no excuse for violence, and women are not to blame for an "incel's" inability to maximize their attractiveness. I was able to do it, and I dealt with "celibacy" without a problem. Its hard sometimes, but lots of things are hard. Learn to deal with it effectively - blaming women for "being shallow" or whatever you blame them for is not going to help you.

Of course no sane person is blaming anyone but the shooters themselves. I don't think the OP was either....he just made a statement and as much as I would like to disagree I think he has a big point. When have any of these mass shooter/killers ever had girlfriends or female interaction? They have always been quiet low self esteem nerdy types (which makes you wonder where they get the balls to pull off these brazen attacks?? If they are so shy and passive for most of their lives)

Like it or not the basis for our existence is to **** and reproduce. Women have a much lower Reproductive variance than men do (aka more women reproduce and have an evenly number amount of children....where as alot of men are BIG winners with tons of offspring while others are complete losers with 0 children) unfortunately thats going to create alot of resentment for the "losers" and in some rare cases that will manifest itself in homicide.

Obviously this doesn't mean the victims/women are to blame...obviously the shooter is to blame but since most of the shooters (Holmes being the exception) kill themselves there is not much we can do to deter/prevent it in terms of "punishment".

No sane person thinks women should be forced to have sex/get a relationship with someone that they don't want to...but on the other hand that doesn't mean their aren't going to be some men that will react very badly to this.

Unaccepted Loners have always been far more violent than stable well adjusted members of the community...Just how our social human species is.

No one with anything to live for would go on a random killing rampage at a movie theater/school/mall etc. Doing such a thing is a purely spiteful/hateful action which also hurts the shooter in all cases (since they either kill themselves or get locked up for life as their is no chance of getting away with it)

Edited March 27, 2013 by footballfan10

March 27, 2013

I noticed that the past mass shootings all were commited by men who had no girlfriends. I also have been told that single pwople have a higher suicide rate. I am not sure if it is true, but does anyone have data

I think about death every day. That's for a lot of reasons but being 37 and single my whole life certainly doesn't help.

March 27, 2013

No sane person thinks women should be forced to have sex/get a relationship with someone that they don't want to...but on the other hand that doesn't mean their aren't going to be some men that will react very badly to this.

It's not just that, as one male poster put it on another thread: half of these guys wouldn't know what to do with a naked woman if she was put in front of their d**k.

Not being able to function in society well has lots of symptoms, being without a mate is only one of them.

March 27, 2013

I noticed that the past mass shootings all were commited by men who had no girlfriends. I also have been told that single pwople have a higher suicide rate. I am not sure if it is true, but does anyone have data

No, crazy ****wads become shooters.

Depressed people commit suicide.

If you're a crazy ****wad it will be almost impossible to get a girl to be interested in you.

If you're depressed it will be difficult to open up enough to have a relationship.

They didn't do these actions because they didn't have sex. They didn't have sex for the same reason they do these actions.

March 27, 2013

Any incels out there that feel that they are quick to anger and may have violent thoughts?

March 27, 2013

Wow. This thread reminds me.. I haven't had sex in over two years..... Hmmm, time to kill.

March 27, 2013

I noticed that the past mass shootings all were commited by men who had no girlfriends. I also have been told that single pwople have a higher suicide rate. I am not sure if it is true, but does anyone have data

If that is the case then why does prostitution would not exist.

March 27, 2013

Any incels out there that feel that they are quick to anger and may have violent thoughts?

Back when I was your age and 'incel', if anything, I felt the opposite. Very energized and enjoying life. Yeah, lack of a girlfriend when my male friends where getting married and having children was occasionally frustrating but that was situational.

More recently, post-divorce, I wouldn't call it incel but lacking a regular companion has its good points and bad points. When I feel 'frustrated', I call up my best friend and we do some 'bang-bang' at the shooting range. Tell some jokes, hole some targets, spit some brass, frustrations over. Smile. I can't imagine someone going out and holing other humans. Crazy. That's probably why they didn't have partners, if so. Been around some crazies. Cared for one. Oy. Suicide I can believe. Can't imagine it for myself but can see that as a potential, more from loneliness than lack of sex. Humans are social.

March 27, 2013

Like it or not the basis for our existence is to **** and reproduce. Women have a much lower Reproductive variance than men do (aka more women reproduce and have an evenly number amount of children....where as alot of men are BIG winners with tons of offspring while others are complete losers with 0 children) unfortunately thats going to create alot of resentment for the "losers" and in some rare cases that will manifest itself in homicide.

Men don't seem to understand with most women, that the same can go for us, only our looks don't measure up, and we're told we should just appreciate whomever wants to **** us, or marry us, whether or not we're attracted to them/a good match for them. I'm not talking about this mythical top 20% either - just someone compatible, emotionally, physically, etc.

Fat women don't count to a lot of people. Ugly/average women just don't count. How many of us shoot people up because we aren't loved in the way that we would like to be? I have no feelings of wanting to shoot up a bunch of innocent people in a movie theatre. I have no urge to kill someone who has rejected me. I have felt suicidal.

March 27, 2013

Males traditionally act out emotions in violence because they are socialized to ignore/suppress/compartmentalize other emotions, like grief, sadness, loneliness, etc. Violence is a societally 'approved' outlet for males. Witness the activities on any schoolyard on up to the prison populations in adult prisons. Predominantly, it is males who commit acts of violence. It follows that a male who finds no other 'approved' outlet for his emotions surrounding incel would act out in an 'approved' manner.

This dynamic is difficult for women to understand in general because they simply don't have the proper social reference point, the same as it is hard for men to identify with aspects of women's lives. We'll never 'get it'.

March 27, 2013

The term "involuntarily celibate" should be banned from common usage. It's so stupid. We all have aspects of our life that we're not happy about, and that we aren't controlling, ranging from the frivolous (thinning hair, involuntarily) to the profound (having a terminal illness).

At least the celibacy has a chance of reversal.

Stop.

March 27, 2013

Personally, I've yet to hear a woman complain, even once about being 'involuntarily celibate'. I'll take that back. One MW did directly make this complaint to me, right before she cornered me on the couch. She could easily have had sex with any male that particular night, but selected one who still respected her marriage. I imagine she found her satisfaction elsewhere. That's simply how easy it is for a woman to achieve something which 'involuntarily celibate' men struggle with. Yes, women talk about wanting a 'complete' relationship/encounter. Men, including involuntarily celibate men, talk about that too. The fact remains that women will never be in the exact same sexual position as an incel male so, while they might feel the term to be worthless to them, it has value to those men who feel that way so is valid for them, as are their feelings surrounding it.

When I experience the actions like those of the MW in my example, and the lack of empathy I see from women for men's issues, I pronounce myself happy to be unmarried and celibate. Good riddance.

March 27, 2013

I think that the idea makes a lot of sense, which is why it has become a focal point for studies about mass killings and the mind states of the men (AND women) who have committed them.

As a psychology major, I have found that the scariest people and those who are profiled by the FBI as the most likely to be dangerous are the people who are too involved with their own thoughts and feelings to be in a healthy relationship.

The person has an illusion of grandeur, where they don't MIND that they're celibate because in this world, no one would possibly be capable of making them happy. It is a narcissistic trait in which a sociopath becomes complacent with his or her own idea that the world is crap, and then the horrific aspect of it comes out later when the mind eventually bends to the pressures of living in a world that will never be worth your time.

As far as suicides go, I think that this would definitely be a factor. A person who is suicidal has quite the opposite inner feelings of a killer, as THEY are the ones who aren't good enough for the world and it would be a "better place" without them. They often have only had one or two relationships that have inevitably failed, in part because they are insecure emotionally and have a tendency to count themselves out before they're even given a chance.

As sex is an important part in feeling close to someone (even if it is only for a night) , it can definitely push a fragile mind over the edge.

March 27, 2013

I think that the idea makes a lot of sense, which is why it has become a focal point for studies about mass killings and the mind states of the men (AND women) who have committed them.

As a psychology major, I have found that the scariest people and those who are profiled by the FBI as the most likely to be dangerous are the people who are too involved with their own thoughts and feelings to be in a healthy relationship.

The person has an illusion of grandeur, where they don't MIND that they're celibate because in this world, no one would possibly be capable of making them happy. It is a narcissistic trait in which a sociopath becomes complacent with his or her own idea that the world is crap, and then the horrific aspect of it comes out later when the mind eventually bends to the pressures of living in a world that will never be worth your time.

As far as suicides go, I think that this would definitely be a factor. A person who is suicidal has quite the opposite inner feelings of a killer, as THEY are the ones who aren't good enough for the world and it would be a "better place" without them. They often have only had one or two relationships that have inevitably failed, in part because they are insecure emotionally and have a tendency to count themselves out before they're even given a chance.
As sex is an important part in feeling close to someone (even if it is only for a night) , it can definitely push a fragile mind over the edge.

It does seem to be a big step between suicide and killing others. Though I don't think it really is depending on the motivation.

There have been men who planned on killing themselves but first wanted to punish other people. Once such example is George Sodoni. Before he killed himself, he killed a bunch of women.

For me, suicide is a constant thought and every night I go to sleep I hope I don't wake up the next day, though I feel I'm still far away from actually trying to kill myself, and harming others isn't even a remote possibility.

The term "involuntarily celibate" should be banned from common usage. It's so stupid. We all have aspects of our life that we're not happy about, and that we aren't controlling, ranging from the frivolous (thinning hair, involuntarily) to the profound (having a terminal illness).

At least the celibacy has a chance of reversal.

Stop.

Saying that only shows how ignorant you are on this issue.

March 27, 2013

Saying that only shows how ignorant you are on this issue.

No, it doesn't. People are not volunteering for ANY of the less than desirable circumstances that happen in life. I understand that there is a such thing as voluntary celibacy - that is, celibate by choice. There is also voluntary poverty, for example, in the case of aesthetes. So does this mean that the regular poor people should designate themselves as the "involuntary poor"?

I'm sorry, but your sense of thwarted entitlement regarding all things relating to women and sex is really messed up.

Guys who don't get to have sex even though they want to - not really a huge deal in the giant scheme of things.

If you don't like the status quo - change YOURSELF. Otherwise, live with what you choose.

March 27, 2013

No, it doesn't. People are not volunteering for ANY of the less than desirable circumstances that happen in life. I understand that there is a such thing as voluntary celibacy - that is, celibate by choice. There is also voluntary poverty, for example, in the case of aesthetes. So does this mean that the regular poor people should designate themselves as the "involuntary poor"?

If somebody is living in poverty, it's generally assumed that it is happening without somebodies choice.

Can you think of any words that are used to describe somebody that is living without intimacy, relationships and sex without choosing to live that way?

Celibate is not sufficient because most people assume that that an individual is choosing to be celibate with the most commonly understood reason being religious.

I'm sorry, but your sense of thwarted entitlement regarding all things relating to women and sex is really messed up.

Guys who don't get to have sex even though they want to - not really a huge deal in the giant scheme of things.

If you don't like the status quo - change YOURSELF. Otherwise, live with what you choose.

That is nothing more than your opinion and one that is indeed ignorant.

March 27, 2013

That is nothing more than your opinion and one that is indeed ignorant.

I'm not "ignorant" and neither is my opinion.

I do have compassion for people who do not have intimacy in their lives. Many times it is due to very difficult circumstances.

However, I draw the line on that when the person is a guy who thinks that he is somehow unfairly deprived because he is not having SEX with a hot young girl.

A guy who is not having sex with a hot young girl is exactly the same as any girl who is not having sex with a tall, ripped rich guy.

Sucks to be them, but it's not a dire problem.

The choice to bypass others in favor of hot, young, tall, ripped and / or rich is just that. A VOLUNTARY CHOICE. I don't disrespect it, but nonetheless, it is VOLUNTARY.

If you were a paraplegic, or a person married to somebody who was disabled from being sexual, or even someone who was so socially messed up that they were incapable of connecting with others, then I would actually take the "incel" label differently. But you're not. You're holding out for what you want in a woman - voluntarily.

March 27, 2013

No, it doesn't. People are not volunteering for ANY of the less than desirable circumstances that happen in life. I understand that there is a such thing as voluntary celibacy - that is, celibate by choice. There is also voluntary poverty, for example, in the case of aesthetes. So does this mean that the regular poor people should designate themselves as the "involuntary poor"?

I'm sorry, but your sense of thwarted entitlement regarding all things relating to women and sex is really messed up.

Guys who don't get to have sex even though they want to - not really a huge deal in the giant scheme of things.

If you don't like the status quo - change YOURSELF. Otherwise, live with what you choose.

But thats the thing...Women are the ones who control who has sex with who...Just like men (usually) control the business world....women have complete reigns over the sexual world and that's how it will always be...where as women are now making huge gains in what was formally the domain of men (thanks to feminism/womens empowerment). Women are keeping their old powers and gaining new ones thanks to feminism. Men have to change/fix themselves to fit a womens needs/desires in a mate....not the other way around. Yet women now are taking some of the powers that traditionally belonged to men.

Good article on the stupidity of modern feminism. Women aren't disadvantaged at all in modern society...In fact they HAVE the advantage over men. Men are the ones at a disadvantage nowadays.

"Why Modern Feminism is Illogical, Unnecessary, and Evil"

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200908/why-modern-feminism-is-illogical-unnecessary-and-evil

Don't agree on the "evil" part but it's definitely illogical and unnecessary

Like I/the OP have said...No-one is saying that women should be forced to sleep with people they don't want to (and they also SHOULDN'T get equal pay or any special treatment in the work place unless they can perform aswell as men can)....But that doesn't mean there aren't going to be some men who react very badly to that and don't accept it. And with the easy access to guns in this society, well it could potentially be a big problem. These are just the facts....take it or leave it. Women have the upper hand (generally) in today's society.

The "thwarted sense of entitlement" part is crap. Lot's of men feel "entitled" to a women body and they get laid all the time since they have the confidence/good looks/money to back it up. Women don't get turned off by a "horrible sense of entitlement" to their bodies....They get turned off when men who don't meet their standards (whether that's because of low confidence, poor looks etc) feel entitled to sex. When a good looking cocky rich guy feels entitled all that goes out the window.

Edited March 27, 2013 by footballfan10

March 27, 2013

I'm not "ignorant" and neither is my opinion.

I do have compassion for people who do not have intimacy in their lives. Many times it is due to very difficult circumstances.

However, I draw the line on that when the person is a guy who thinks that he is somehow unfairly deprived because he is not having SEX with a hot young girl.

A guy who is not having sex with a hot young girl is exactly the same as any girl who is not having sex with a tall, ripped rich guy.

Sucks to be them, but it's not a dire problem.

The choice to bypass others in favor of hot, young, tall, ripped and / or rich is just that. A VOLUNTARY CHOICE. I don't disrespect it, but nonetheless, it is VOLUNTARY.

If you were a paraplegic, or a person married to somebody who was disabled from being sexual, or even someone who was so socially messed up that they were incapable of connecting with others, then I would actually take the "incel" label differently. But you're not. You're holding out for what you want in a woman - voluntarily.

Agree 100 percent with this. But most of these rampage shooters aren't able to get any girlfriends at all or even just regular friends in general.

A guy who dyes his hair red and goes on a terminator style rampage at a movie theater is not getting any girls....period. Even the ugliest of the ugly chicks were not going out with him.

Of course like I said the shooting is still entirely 100 percent his fault.

March 27, 2013

I'm not "ignorant" and neither is my opinion.

I do have compassion for people who do not have intimacy in their lives. Many times it is due to very difficult circumstances.

However, I draw the line on that when the person is a guy who thinks that he is somehow unfairly deprived because he is not having SEX with a hot young girl.

A guy who is not having sex with a hot young girl is exactly the same as any girl who is not having sex with a tall, ripped rich guy.

Sucks to be them, but it's not a dire problem.

The choice to bypass others in favor of hot, young, tall, ripped and / or rich is just that. A VOLUNTARY CHOICE. I don't disrespect it, but nonetheless, it is VOLUNTARY.

If you were a paraplegic, or a person married to somebody who was disabled from being sexual, or even someone who was so socially messed up that they were incapable of connecting with others, then I would actually take the "incel" label differently. But you're not. You're holding out for what you want in a woman - voluntarily.

Who the hell said anything about having sex with hot young girls?!

And please tell me who is being bypassed for these hot young girls.

Edited March 28, 2013 by somedude81

March 28, 2013

However, I draw the line on that when the person is a guy who thinks that he is somehow unfairly deprived because he is not having SEX with a hot young girl.

I have been reading this forum a lot for the past 2 months and I don't even recall somedude81 ever saying he wanted an actual "hot young girl".

He would be fine with any woman at this point. Now, the real issue is finding one that wants him and to make her interest easily known.

I only saw 1 thread, maybe 2, where he thinks a woman has shown interest and yet screwed it up badly.

Women still thinks men is supposed to read their "interest signs" correctly. I didn't know there was a how-to manual on that particular subject.

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Do involuntary celibate men become violent or suicidal

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