fortyninethousand322 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 The only women who are going to want to be with someone who is bitter are probably pretty f'd up themselves. Is that who you'd want to be with? You could choose to be happy and not bitter. And just stay that way, regardless of the outcome, which would undoubtedly serve you better than staying bitter. Well, I wasn't talking about myself. I'm more likely to internalize that sort of thing than externalize. I was merely making the observation that there's no disincentive for a guy to act the way Mme Chaucer described, because the only penalty he pays is that the woman who wouldn't sleep with him in the first place won't sleep with him. He's basically right where he left off, is what I was saying. 1
Imajerk17 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 I don't know what to tell you Bitter Boys. Yes women can be "illogical" when it comes to attraction but so can we guys. I'm picky too. Just because a woman is sweet, giving, has her life together, age-appropriate, and willing to sleep with me doesn't mean that I am interested. Other things need to be in place, some of which are rather shallow, for me to feel A-T-T-R-A-C-T-E-D. Sue me. Be thankful that women are far less picky when it comes to looks than we guys are. Believe it or not, you just might actually have a shot, if you change your attitude. 4
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 I was merely making the observation that there's no disincentive for a guy to act the way Mme Chaucer described, because the only penalty he pays is that the woman who wouldn't sleep with him in the first place won't sleep with him. He's basically right where he left off, is what I was saying. Isn't being miserable a disincentive in itself? That "nice guys" link - take it seriously. Women AND men don't like the Bitter Entitled Boy Brigade. The only people who really like them are others of the same mindset. To be fair, the same goes for women who blame everything about their unhappy lives on "men."
fortyninethousand322 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 I don't know what to tell you Bitter Boys. Yes women can be "illogical" when it comes to attraction but so can we guys. Sometimes I suppose that happens to some men. I'm picky too. Just because a woman is sweet, giving, has her life together, age-appropriate, and willing to sleep with me doesn't mean that I am interested. Other things need to be in place, some of which are rather shallow, for me to feel A-T-T-R-A-C-T-E-D. Sue me. Good for you? Some people like to eat filet mignon every Tuesday, some people starve in the street. Therefore everyone can eat filet mignon on Tuesdays. That's about as logical as what you just wrote here sounds. Some people cannot be picky. They have to take what they can get. You refuse to see the truth, but it's still there. Read some evolutionary psychology or biology. It explains why some men struggle and some men don't. Hint: it's in the genetics. Be thankful that women are far less picky when it comes to looks than we guys are. Believe it or not, you just might actually have a shot, if you change your attitude. That is so far from the truth and you know it. 1
Treasa Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Some people cannot be picky. You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, some people can't be picky. However, everyone can choose to be happy. And guess who has more luck attracting people - a happy or a bitter person? 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Isn't being miserable a disincentive in itself? If someone externalizes their failure, no. They just move on to find another "victim". Sooner or later someone will actually give in to that kind of guy, believe it or not. That "nice guys" link - take it seriously. Women AND men don't like the Bitter Entitled Boy Brigade. The only people who really like them are others of the same mindset. Probably. Though, most of the "bitter nice guys" weren't ever attractive to women in the first place. So again, there's no down side to being bitter. You are right where you are supposed to be. 1
carhill Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 IMO, a bitter, attractive person has more social 'luck' than an unattractive, happy person. That's been the observation in my 53, speaking only to the relationship of attractiveness with engaging/collecting other people for the purposes of interpersonal relationships/interactions. It doesn't speak to the longevity nor health of those relationships, merely the numbers. In other words, regardless of personality, an attractive person can engage and retain more random people in life than an unattractive person. A person who is physically attractive to a wide range of people can more easily move from one to the next, replacing those who either find their personality incompatible or from whom the person otherwise has gained what they needed and hence moved on. To me, this is gender-neutral. IMO, it only seems women are more 'picky' because it's we men they are choosing amongst. We feel the results of that 'pickiness' at the personal level. We don't feel the results of our own pickiness in the same way.
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Op, I didn't read that thread you posted, but are you being serious about fathers teaching their sons to hit it and quit it...or was it just hyperbole? Absolutely not. Read the linked thread. The MAIN IDEA of the thread is to reduce bitterness. By attacking the game as a numbers game with odds attached. So, you have to express interest early and not wait for her interest to develop over time. Low odds. I have never had a ONS in my life, and the couple of times I have made out with women and no relationship developed it was because they blew me off. Remember. This thread, as most of my threads, is addressed to men who struggle mightily with women. 1
Treasa Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 In other words, regardless of personality, an attractive person can engage and retain more random people in life than an unattractive person. A person who is physically attractive to a wide range of people can more easily move from one to the next, replacing those who either find their personality incompatible or from whom the person otherwise has gained what they needed and hence moved on. To me, this is gender-neutral. I have a friend who is ridiculously gorgeous and can't talk to men to save her life. She almost never has a boyfriend. Meanwhile, even when I was 270 pounds, I had no problems getting boyfriends. Good-looking ones, too. Just because someone is physically attractive doesn't mean they have confidence, wit, charisma, etc.
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, some people can't be picky. However, everyone can choose to be happy. And guess who has more luck attracting people - a happy or a bitter person? I actually told my ex (who is now my friend) that I am generally an unhappy person the other day, and she was pretty shocked. To her, I seem like a very happy person. To this forum, I probably seem like a bitter, grumpy curmudgeon. 1
Treasa Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 I actually told my ex (who is now my friend) that I am generally an unhappy person the other day, and she was pretty shocked. To her, I seem like a very happy person. To this forum, I probably seem like a bitter, grumpy curmudgeon. Oh sure, so we have to deal with the grumpy you. You're lucky you threw a bunny in there, dude.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Some people cannot be picky. They have to take what they can get. You refuse to see the truth, but it's still there. I do not agree that being "picky" (a term I cannot comprehend as being suitable when talking about the quest for love, but whatever) is a luxury for attractive people only. Those who "take what they can get" are probably in unhappy relationships and marriages. Love, mutual attraction and deep compatibility are possible for regular and ugly looking people as well as for the hot ones.
fortyninethousand322 Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 I do not agree that being "picky" (a term I cannot comprehend as being suitable when talking about the quest for love, but whatever) is a luxury for attractive people only. Those who "take what they can get" are probably in unhappy relationships and marriages. Love, mutual attraction and deep compatibility are possible for regular and ugly looking people as well as for the hot ones. You and I will have to respectfully disagree on that. 3
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Love, mutual attraction and deep compatibility are possible for regular and ugly looking people as well as for the hot ones. With the exception of attraction, that is not what gives people options. Physical attractiveness, social status, money, career, education, and auditorium charisma. THAT is what people say when they mean the won't settle. Nobody means I won't settle for a woman who puts me down and forgets to pick me up at the train station. If that's what you mean by settling, then I won't settle either. 2
GoodOnPaper Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Those who "take what they can get" are probably in unhappy relationships and marriages. Not necessarily UN-happy but the highs are not as high as I imagine they would be when there is a more intense infatuation early in the relationship. The plus side is that you move on with your life -- the down side (at least for me) is that it's hard to shake the rejection stigma even though you aren't out there trying to attract people.
chrisftw Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 You have to keep emotional distance if you want to weigh out your options while you get to know the girl you like. Also keep physical proximity as well when you are hanging with her. Touch her see if she reciprocates. Keep the banter flirty. Tell her she's attractive. Hint to her you have an intrest but you don't need her That's how you stay out if the friendzone. Guys land in the friend by becoming an emotional tampon. She has a problem she talks to you. She had a good day she talks to you. She saw something cute. She talks to you. Stop that crap. And distance yourself from it and you will find you can keep female friends all of which you can flip a switch on and start dating. Because when they think about you. They'll realize they don't even really know much about you.
Author Inflikted Posted January 29, 2013 Author Posted January 29, 2013 Wow, I thought this topic died a couple of days ago. There's a bunch of stuff I want to address, here... Op, I didn't read that thread you posted, but are you being serious about fathers teaching their sons to hit it and quit it...or was it just hyperbole? Erm, I'm the "OP" of this thread we're in now. I don't know if you confused me with that other guy, but no, I never made another topic in which I said anything like that at all. Just for clarification. Confidence isn't something that comes from other peoples' attraction to you or approval of you. It comes from within. From knowing that you kick ass even if it seems like the entire freaking world hates you. Don't let others determine how you feel about yourself. The scale will slide up, and then it will slide down. No one should ever have that much power over your emotions, especially about yourself. But you can be "confident" about one aspect of your life, and not so much in another, yanno? If there were something I was particularly good at, I would be confident in my ability to do that thing. Generally speaking, I think I'm confident in myself that I'm a good guy; I mean, I have flaws, and I know what they are, but I don't feel like I have any major glaring "red flags" that should make me "undatable". Yet, I'm 24, and I've never been able to drum up "romantic" interest from even one girl in my life time. None. Never. So, it's hard to be "confident" that there's a girl out there I can like and want to be with, that will also like and want to be with me. By this age, most people have already found at least one person to be with. That fact that I haven't even found one is scary, and again, it makes it nigh impossible to believe there's any hope for me. It's not about needing someone to "validate" me, or make me feel good about myself. I'm just lonely. I want to experience that kind of relationship. I want to find someone I value and enjoy being with, who equally values and enjoys being with me. I want to find a good partner for myself, and I want to be a good partner to someone else. It's sad and hurtful to think that I'm just "unlovable", but more and more, that's how I feel, given my situation. 'Nuff said. And so true. Perhaps this article wasn't directed specifically at me, but I'm going to respond, anyway. Personally, I don't feel a lot of this stuff applies to me. I don't use classifications like "nice guy" or "jerk". I don't vilify women for not wanting to date me, or even rejecting me. I'm not saying any woman "owes" me anything. "Being nice" isn't some angle I try to work with girls to get with them. I try to be friendly, I listen, I care, I show respect, not because I'm trying to "manipulate" anyone, but because that's genuinely how I am. I'm not saying that being/ doing those things entitles to me to anything, but at my core, I think I'm a good person. I try to make women smile and laugh, I try to be playful, I try to "tease" them a bit to develop banter. This happens with certain girls more than others. When it happens, if I really like the girl, I WILL ask her out. She just always ends up saying no. The truth is, I'm not "complaining", I'm not "mad at the world", and I'm certainly not trying to hate on women, or supposed "jerks". I'm just frustrated, sad, and very lonely. I don't understand why I'm incapable of finding a mutual attraction with a girl. I'm not perfect, but I'm not looking for someone who's "perfect", either. All the girls I've been attracted to and pursued were girls that I felt most "equal" to, all around. It's just hard to be going on so long, feeling like I just don't have the ability to find a girl for me. Like I said, I feel "unwanted" and "unlovable", and those aren't exactly happy thoughts.
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