I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong...

[Inflikted]

Before I get into the main point of this topic, let me start off by saying, I don't seem to operate the way a "normal" guy operates; I've never seen a "pretty" girl in passing and wanted to chat her up, get her number, and go on a date. Every time I've found a girl I've wanted to date, we'd meet due to whatever circumstances, get to know each other and develop a friendship (though I always keep a certain emotional distance, so as to avoid that whole "friend zone" thing), and then I start to feel something and try to take things from there.

 

The problem is, I just never have any luck with girls. When I like a girl, I try to get to know her, see what's important to her, find common interests with her, joke around with and playfully tease her, develop banter, etc. But it's never "good enough", I never come off as an "attractive" prospect to any girl. I've had girls tell me I'm funny and whatnot, and many have conveyed to me that they think/ thought I was a pretty cool person. But evidently, I'm just not worth dating.

 

I'm 24, now, and the more time goes by and the more I keep "failing" in this area, the harder it gets. I've never even been on a date, let alone had a girlfriend. I just hate how hard it apparently is for me to find someone that values and enjoys my companionship as much as I do theirs, and has a mutual "attraction" with me.

 

I'm sort of extra bummed because over the last 5-6 months, I had found a pretty cool girl (which is a thought I haven't had in a very long time), got to know her a bit, hit it off really well with her, developed feelings for her, asked her out, got rejected, tried to be friends with her but the feelings came back, things got a bit messy, I tried to smooth things over, now we're *kinda* friends but not really, and today, I found out that she's recently started dating someone. It's been such a roller coaster ride, these last few months, with more lows than highs. I liked her a lot, and she's the first girl I've ever actually connected with for "real" reasons. Prior to her, I had temporarily blocked out the whole idea of dating and whatnot from my head, because I was feeling so bad about my inability to charm a lady, but after I took a chance on her, all these old thoughts have flooded back in my mind, and I'm suddenly finding myself feeling very lonely, unwanted, and "unlovable".

[Jefezen]

I don't seem to operate the way a "normal" guy operates; I've never seen a "pretty" girl in passing and wanted to chat her up, get her number, and go on a date. Every time I've found a girl I've wanted to date, we'd meet due to whatever circumstances, get to know each other and develop a friendship (though I always keep a certain emotional distance, so as to avoid that whole "friend zone" thing), and then I start to feel something and try to take things from there.

 

That's probably the problem right there: starting off as friends and hoping you can make it more than that over time. I make the same mistake. I wait too long to get interested in someone and by the time I want that person, she only sees me as a friend or acquaintance. I don't know if this occurs more often with women than men, but it just seems that people don't generally want to shift from friendship to romance. It either goes straight to romance, or sometimes romance to friendship.

 

I wish this weren't so because I think it makes sense to get to know someone before falling for them. Otherwise you're really just attracted to a vision of a person, a fantasy created in your own mind. It frustrates me.

 

Maybe you'd have more luck if you skip the friendship part and just try and jump straight into a romantic entanglement. If you don't work out as lovers, then settle on friendship, or move onto the next girl if that's not what you desire.

[Inflikted]

Well, I mean, it's not like this is an "angle" I try to work with girls. I don't go in thinking "I'm going to be her friend, then I'll ask her out on a date!". That's just how things kinda happen for me. I've never once had any inclination to "cold approach" some random girl.

 

I don't really understand why the whole "friends first" approach is made out to be such an unlikely occurrence. Most of the happy couples I know currently knew each other for at least a little while before they started "dating"; some met through school or work, or through friends, heck, one girl I know eventually found love with her best friend's brother. I just don't get why this kind of stuff can't happen for me.

[Jefezen]

I don't really understand why the whole "friends first" approach is made out to be such an unlikely occurrence. Most of the happy couples I know currently knew each other for at least a little while before they started "dating"; some met through school or work, or through friends, heck, one girl I know eventually found love with her best friend's brother. I just don't get why this kind of stuff can't happen for me.

Logically, I'm in complete agreement, however what you describe above mostly tends to happen in movies, not real life.

 

I'm not very experienced either, but maybe a little more than you at this point, and what I've found is that if I don't passionately kiss the girl by the third time I've gone out with her, it's over. She might keep me around as an occasional social pal, I'll just never be her lover. This puts an inordinate amount of pressure on me, especially as a relative novice to the dating scene and a timid person who prefers to get to know someone over time. I'm trying to learn to deal with it and push myself harder because I know the alternative is an unsatisfying quasi-friendship.

 

The whole thing about women not liking nice guys is false. I think it might be that women don't like meek guys. They want the man to be decisive. They want him to take control. They want the man to lead. They want the man to make them weak-kneed, blubbering, emotional buffoons, incapable of resisting the man's advances. Anything other than that and they feel like they're meeting another woman who just happens to have male anatomy.

[NYC-BigKat]

Before I get into the main point of this topic, let me start off by saying, I don't seem to operate the way a "normal" guy operates; I've never seen a "pretty" girl in passing and wanted to chat her up, get her number, and go on a date. Every time I've found a girl I've wanted to date, we'd meet due to whatever circumstances, get to know each other and develop a friendship (though I always keep a certain emotional distance, so as to avoid that whole "friend zone" thing), and then I start to feel something and try to take things from there.

 

The problem is, I just never have any luck with girls. When I like a girl, I try to get to know her, see what's important to her, find common interests with her, joke around with and playfully tease her, develop banter, etc. But it's never "good enough", I never come off as an "attractive" prospect to any girl. I've had girls tell me I'm funny and whatnot, and many have conveyed to me that they think/ thought I was a pretty cool person. But evidently, I'm just not worth dating.

 

I'm 24, now, and the more time goes by and the more I keep "failing" in this area, the harder it gets. I've never even been on a date, let alone had a girlfriend. I just hate how hard it apparently is for me to find someone that values and enjoys my companionship as much as I do theirs, and has a mutual "attraction" with me.

 

I'm sort of extra bummed because over the last 5-6 months, I had found a pretty cool girl (which is a thought I haven't had in a very long time), got to know her a bit, hit it off really well with her, developed feelings for her, asked her out, got rejected, tried to be friends with her but the feelings came back, things got a bit messy, I tried to smooth things over, now we're *kinda* friends but not really, and today, I found out that she's recently started dating someone. It's been such a roller coaster ride, these last few months, with more lows than highs. I liked her a lot, and she's the first girl I've ever actually connected with for "real" reasons. Prior to her, I had temporarily blocked out the whole idea of dating and whatnot from my head, because I was feeling so bad about my inability to charm a lady, but after I took a chance on her, all these old thoughts have flooded back in my mind, and I'm suddenly finding myself feeling very lonely, unwanted, and "unlovable".

 

I'm the same age as u & have the same problem!! It got so so bad for me that I just try to ignore girls alot now so I dont get mad seeing them 'cause I cant date them anyway. I have no idea at all how to connect with them. It seems girls are so different from men & likes to make it hard for us good guys. My friends says they'll run to me after I start making serious money at my job & when they'r over the hill with kids. Oh god I hope he's wrong .

[Jefezen]

I

'm the same age as u & have the same problem!! It got so so bad for me that I just try to ignore girls alot now so I dont get mad seeing them 'cause I cant date them anyway. I have no idea at all how to connect with them. It seems girls are so different from men & likes to make it hard for us good guys. My friends says they'll run to me after I start making serious money at my job & when they'r over the hill with kids. Oh god I hope he's wrong .

 

Do not give up. I wasted my entire 20s making no effort to find a woman. I regret it tremendously. When I turned 30 (I'm still 30 now), being alone really started to gnaw at me to the point where I overcame my timidity enough to push myself into the social scene. With almost no dating experience as a 30 yearold, I'm probably making all kinds of rookie mistakes, mistakes that wouldn't be transpiring if I had been on the dating circuit since my mid-20s.

 

Don't repeat my mistake and lose these valuable training years. You'll fail more than you'll succeed. We all do at first. You'll think you've fallen in love, you'll feel miserable, you'll lose your ability to concentrate on anything other than your struggles with women. There's no denying it'll be rough. But the alternative is even worse. You don't want to one day be a single 50-something yearold loner with no family.

 

Eventually you will find a woman. Even I think I'll find a woman. It takes time. It takes patience. It takes practice. It takes effort. The sooner you get started, the sooner you'll succeed.

 

This isn't baseball where you have to bat .300 over the course of a season to be considered a good hitter. All you need is one hit in your entire career and you've got it made because it ultimately only takes one woman to be happy. Anyone can get one hit. But you have to give it a chance to happen by stepping up to the plate.

[Inflikted]

Do not give up.

 

...

 

Eventually you will find a woman. Even I think I'll find a woman. It takes time. It takes patience. It takes practice. It takes effort. The sooner you get started, the sooner you'll succeed.

 

This isn't baseball where you have to bat .300 over the course of a season to be considered a good hitter. All you need is one hit in your entire career and you've got it made because it ultimately only takes one woman to be happy. Anyone can get one hit. But you have to give it a chance to happen by stepping up to the plate.

 

That's a nice thought, but for me, personally, it's just getting harder and harder to believe. The fact is, most people don't have issues like this, most people date and have relationships from their late teens, through their 20s and 30s, etc. Among my peers right now, I don't know a single person that's as bad off with dating as I am.

 

It's just such a difficult thought to comprehend. I don't really have any major glaring "red flags", so what is it about me that makes me unable to date and fall in love like everyone else around me? Why am I unlovable?

[NYC-BigKat]

That's a nice thought, but for me, personally, it's just getting harder and harder to believe. The fact is, most people don't have issues like this, most people date and have relationships from their late teens, through their 20s and 30s, etc. Among my peers right now, I don't know a single person that's as bad off with dating as I am.

 

It's just such a difficult thought to comprehend. I don't really have any major glaring "red flags", so what is it about me that makes me unable to date and fall in love like everyone else around me? Why am I unlovable?

 

I guess its not meant to be sometimes. Its easy to say keep trying & all that stuff but its so so hard when u cant catch a break. Confidence starts when u catch a break or 2 but when u cant theres no way u can feel optimistic out here especially in NY 'cause dating is extra hard for guys & it seems the only way to meet girls is to be in social circles & I tried to go to bars & stuff but I hate it there & I tried to do a couple meetup groups but the girls are very old in there with kids & I dont wanna date them so its not meant to be right now & I'm so so busy with work its crazy. Today was my only day off in like 6 days 'cause I'm new at the company so dating isn't gonna happen anyway u know .

[Jefezen]

That's a nice thought, but for me, personally, it's just getting harder and harder to believe. The fact is, most people don't have issues like this, most people date and have relationships from their late teens, through their 20s and 30s, etc. Among my peers right now, I don't know a single person that's as bad off with dating as I am.

 

There are plenty of people out there like you and I who are alone. I learned that once I started forcing myself to go out more. My first hangout was the bar section of a family restaurant where I met lots of single guys in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, most of them loners. They all seemed like nice people who should have been able to find wives. Spending time with them is what inspired me to push myself to start socializing with women, to get myself out there. I am determined not to end up like them.

 

It's just such a difficult thought to comprehend. I don't really have any major glaring "red flags", so what is it about me that makes me unable to date and fall in love like everyone else around me? Why am I unlovable?

 

No one is unlovable. I really believe that each and every one of us can find a life partner. We need to take a proactive approach. We're not going to land a woman by sitting at home crying away our sorrows. We have to get out there. We have to make ourselves available. We have to push ourselves. It gets easier over time. It really does. I've been doing things I never thought possible as recently as a year ago.

[SJC2008]

Try to figure it out while you're still relativley young. Whatever you do don't mention your lack of exp. If they ask, say you've dated here and there etc, nothing too serious.

[fortyninethousand322]

Well, I mean, it's not like this is an "angle" I try to work with girls. I don't go in thinking "I'm going to be her friend, then I'll ask her out on a date!". That's just how things kinda happen for me. I've never once had any inclination to "cold approach" some random girl.

 

Yup. That's what so many people fail to understand about the whole "friend zone" thing. It's most of the time not an angle. If it were an angle it would be the worst angle in history. It's just something that happens.

 

I think the problem is that many guys are hunters. They know from the beginning that they are going to go in for the kill (metaphorically speaking of course) from the moment they meet a girl. So they do things that make it clear that they are sexually interested. You (and me I might add) don't do things that way. Puts us at a disadvantage.

 

You need to become a sex crazed guy and be a lot more forward (relative to what you are now).

[Inflikted]

See, I don't buy into the idea that if you don't ask a girl out right away, then you're automatically "friendzoned" with no chance to get out. To me, getting stuck in the "friendzone" is what happens when a guy tries to go all out with being best buds with a girl, and I don't really do that. With the last girl I liked, yeah, it took me 2-3 months to figure out I liked her and to ask her out, but I was only getting to see her about once a week, and during that time, we'd get to maybe have one or two pretty good conversations and joke around with each other a little; it's not like we were joined at the hip, hanging out every other day, calling/ texting each other, telling each other all our dirty little secrets, etc. I don't think she turned me down because we were "too good of friends". I think there was a perfectly acceptable amount of emotional distance there to prevent me from falling into the "friendzone" with her, and had she and I gotten to spend more time together than just once a week, I probably would've fallen for her and asked her out sooner than I actually did.

 

The fact remains, though, that I still don't grasp the concept of "flirting". Like I said, I think I'm basically "likable" to girls (and they've conveyed this to me), the way I talk to them, joke around with and tease them, but I just don't seem to have the ability to turn "likable" into "dateable". I don't know how to "flirt", or anything like that. That whole thing is just completely lost on me.

[gaius]

The only thing that struck me from your post was the whole trying to find out what's important to her thing. That's not important at all, you should be talking more about yourself. You should ask questions here and there, and if she wants to bring up what's important to her that's fine. Go along with it. But don't make her the center piece of the relationship. That honor should fall to you.

 

You're right about the friend zone thing though. If you have what a woman wants you can be friends forever and she'll still dive into bed with you if given the chance.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Before I get into the main point of this topic, let me start off by saying, I don't seem to operate the way a "normal" guy operates; I've never seen a "pretty" girl in passing and wanted to chat her up, get her number, and go on a date. Every time I've found a girl I've wanted to date, we'd meet due to whatever circumstances, get to know each other and develop a friendship (though I always keep a certain emotional distance, so as to avoid that whole "friend zone" thing), and then I start to feel something and try to take things from there.

 

The problem is, I just never have any luck with girls. When I like a girl, I try to get to know her, see what's important to her, find common interests with her, joke around with and playfully tease her, develop banter, etc. But it's never "good enough", I never come off as an "attractive" prospect to any girl. I've had girls tell me I'm funny and whatnot, and many have conveyed to me that they think/ thought I was a pretty cool person. But evidently, I'm just not worth dating.

 

I'm 24, now, and the more time goes by and the more I keep "failing" in this area, the harder it gets. I've never even been on a date, let alone had a girlfriend. I just hate how hard it apparently is for me to find someone that values and enjoys my companionship as much as I do theirs, and has a mutual "attraction" with me.

 

I'm sort of extra bummed because over the last 5-6 months, I had found a pretty cool girl (which is a thought I haven't had in a very long time), got to know her a bit, hit it off really well with her, developed feelings for her, asked her out, got rejected, tried to be friends with her but the feelings came back, things got a bit messy, I tried to smooth things over, now we're *kinda* friends but not really, and today, I found out that she's recently started dating someone. It's been such a roller coaster ride, these last few months, with more lows than highs. I liked her a lot, and she's the first girl I've ever actually connected with for "real" reasons. Prior to her, I had temporarily blocked out the whole idea of dating and whatnot from my head, because I was feeling so bad about my inability to charm a lady, but after I took a chance on her, all these old thoughts have flooded back in my mind, and I'm suddenly finding myself feeling very lonely, unwanted, and "unlovable".

 

Thank you so much my man for making this post. This is how a LOT of young guys operate, me as well, and it's a GODDAMN SHAME that no fathers or older brothers or even older sisters educate young men on stuff like this.

 

There's a couple of reasons you fall into this pattern.

 

1) Lack of confidence in yourself that she will like your looks off the bat.

 

2) You're a non-shallow person.

 

Which is fine. But like others have said, lots of women are shallow. They know what they want and they know if you are it or not. Usually right away. So, you have to act right away. You can't rely on a woman growing her interest in you the same as her. Very unlikely.

 

The next time you see a woman you like, ask her for her phone number RIGHT AWAY. Call her a few days after or the next day. It doesn't matter. Don't be nervous and don't worry about rules of when to call, etc, because...

 

YOU ARE GOING TO FAIL MOST OF THE TIME!

 

That is the most important thing to remember. So, what is better odds? Getting to know one women over 8 months and taking your chances on her, or 8 women in 1 month? Got me bro? Remember. It doesn't matter if she thinks you're good looking or not. Because that won't change 8 months from now when she's gotten to know you. So better to ask now.

 

BTW, there's a reason no women ever respond when men make these kinds of threads about being friendzoned. Because they know me to be true.

[Ladybugz]

How do you mean what do you do?

 

I think you are a bad men and loser.

 

You took time to drag her away from her belief and parents.

HAve sex with her and make her pragnant.

And now you wan to run from the responsability.

 

Abortus is wrong and its murder.

And the woman will suffer from it more then any men.

Cause she have a conection from day one that she knows

that she is pragnant.

And the pain will come to her body.

 

You should be working your ass of to take care of your child and

her, That is what men do.

They take responsablity and take care of their family.

 

She need to break up with you right away and go to her family to

take care of the baby .

Cause you are only trouble.

[Ladybugz]

wrong topic

[Inflikted]

The next time you see a woman you like, ask her for her phone number RIGHT AWAY.

 

Sure, but how do you do that if you don't know whether you like her or not right away? I'm personally not that focused on looks or physical traits, so I don't tend to "check out" girls, or anything like that. And being introverted, I tend to keep to myself around strangers unless they indicate to me somehow that they want to talk to me.

 

So, when I'm out and about, I'm not really "looking" for girls, and I don't have the mindset of "Oh, that girl over there is hot, I should go introduce myself and get her phone number". I don't really start "noticing" a girl until after I've gotten to see her personality a bit, and that's not something you can get much of an idea of from a brief encounter with a stranger, yanno?

[JuneJulySeptember]

Sure, but how do you do that if you don't know whether you like her or not right away? I'm personally not that focused on looks or physical traits, so I don't tend to "check out" girls, or anything like that. And being introverted, I tend to keep to myself around strangers unless they indicate to me somehow that they want to talk to me.

 

So, when I'm out and about, I'm not really "looking" for girls, and I don't have the mindset of "Oh, that girl over there is hot, I should go introduce myself and get her phone number". I don't really start "noticing" a girl until after I've gotten to see her personality a bit, and that's not something you can get much of an idea of from a brief encounter with a stranger, yanno?

 

I'm glad you asked.

 

The same thought used to go through my head. "How can I know if I like her without REALLY getting to know her and EVERYTHING that makes her tick?"

 

Forget that. Go with first impressions. If you're out with friends and meet a friend of a friend, and you have some kind of rapport or think she's real nice, bite the bullet and try and initiate the next meeting to be one on one.

 

Two weeks ago, I was in a unique situation of having two lengthy conversations with two different women. Neither were spectacular looking. One was 'cool and nice'. The other was 'real nice and kinda interesting.' I took a shot with both and invited them out. One turned it down, the other took. Whether or not she honors will be a different story.

 

See what you are faced with? There is absolutely no way you can take things so slow and succeed. Well, there is a way. But if you were that type of guy, it would have happened for you already.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Of all the BS/infighting/typical fare threads we've had today of which I'll admit I'm a major perp , a very insightful post got lost in the muck.

 

I'd like every man to read the thread carefully. I almost GUARANTEE that every bitter man here has been through this same scenario.

 

Guys face it. It's easier for women and they are picky. As much as some women here try and dispute it, your unwitting female brethen here prove it over and over every day. Done and out of the way.

 

If every father could teach every unsuccessful man the hit and run strategy, you could greatly decrease the bitter man ratio by lord knows how many. Seriously, they should make it a required class in 7th grade.

Edited January 29, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[KungFuJoe]

Of all the BS/infighting/typical fare threads we've had today of which I'll admit I'm a major perp , a very insightful post got lost in the muck.

 

I'd like every man to read the thread carefully. I almost GUARANTEE that every bitter man here has been through this same scenario.

 

Guys face it. It's easier for women and they are picky. As much as some women here try and dispute it, your unwitting female brethen here prove it over and over every day. Done and out of the way.

 

If every father could teach every unsuccessful man the hit and run strategy, you could greatly decrease the bitter man ratio by lord knows how many. Seriously, they should make it a required class in 7th grade.

 

Mmmmm....yes...your tears sustain me.

Edited January 29, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[fortyninethousand322]

Eh, the only big takeaway from that thread is that for most guys being friends first isn't a tactic used to get closer to a woman and then stealthily ask them out. It starts out as genuine platonic friendship. But, then you develop feelings. The problem with most men is that they don't develop feelings when they first lay eyes on a girl.

 

You kind of have to go at any girl you're interested in or you think might be interested in you (if you are good at reading signals) because otherwise you stand a big risk of being unintentionally friend zoned later on.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

You kind of have to go at any girl you're interested in or you think might be interested in you (if you are good at reading signals) because otherwise you stand a big risk of being unintentionally friend zoned later on.

 

It's a HUGE point.

 

Seriously, I think friendzoning is responsible for 95% of bitter men.

 

And it is NEVER something fathers tell their sons.

[Inflikted]

I'm glad you asked.

 

The same thought used to go through my head. "How can I know if I like her without REALLY getting to know her and EVERYTHING that makes her tick?"

 

Forget that. Go with first impressions. If you're out with friends and meet a friend of a friend, and you have some kind of rapport or think she's real nice, bite the bullet and try and initiate the next meeting to be one on one.

 

I'm not disputing what you're saying at all, but just to clarify, I'm not necessarily expecting to know EVERYTHING about a girl before I realize I want to date her. I can honestly say, though, that with all of the girls I've been interested in in my life, I never thought about dating them within the first time I've met them. That just never happens for me. I think at minimum, I'd probably have to interact with a girl at least 2-3 times before I'd think of her in a "dating" kind of way. There's no "x amount of time" I wait to ask a girl out, the feelings just kinda appear for me when they do.

 

Ideally, I'd prefer to meet a girl in a situation like you described, either through friends, or just in some other situation where we're forced to meet and get to know each other. I just can't get behind the idea of seeing some random girl while out and about, and asking her out, or even approaching her to chat her up. Again, I don't believe the "friends first" approach is as unlikely as everyone makes it out to be; I think I already said it here, but pretty much all the couples I know right now knew each other for at least a little while before they started dating. I don't see why it should be unreasonable for me to want to find the same. Unfortunately, I don't have much of an active social life right now, so the whole "friend of a friend" thing, or any similar situation, is kinda out the window.

[wahine]

Well OP, to start off, I think there are plenty of women who'd appreciate a "deep" guy who actually cared to get to know a girl first. You also seem pretty intelligent and considerate, so you've got that going for you.

 

Your age is not an issue, so stop worrying about it. My ex's brother was 23 when he got his first girlfriend. He had ridiculously high expectations for his lifestyle (spent ALL day gaming, but expected Scarlett Johansson to come banging his door down). So he put the controller down and socialized more at school (and yes, got a little bit of honest advice from myself and some of my female friends in our group) and BAM! Girlfriends! He's made up for lost time now and you'd never know how inexperienced he was such a short time ago.

 

Just keep your distance from the friend zone and market yourself well. I can't emphasize this enough- you can be effing gorgeous, but if you dress like this 24/7, you're not going to be getting any dates anytime soon: http://5.media.bustedtees.cvcdn.com/f/-/bustedtees.b16dc35f-7cb6-40ab-b3a1-b05b39f6.jpg

 

When in doubt, ask some girl friends what they think you can do as an individual to improve your situation. For my ex's bro, it was a wardrobe overhaul. For you, it may be to bulk/tone up a little or change your hairstyle or get more hobbies and become more interesting. Be the kind of guy that you'd want to date if you were the kind of girl that YOU'RE attracted to.

 

One last tidbit: what you're currently doing as far as showing interest only when you're ready is spot-on. Don't flirt with a girl and show interest until you feel comfortable and ready. It always comes off as cheesy or forced otherwise, and is a huge turn off.

[sabre80]

Mmmmm....yes...your tears sustain me.